Robert Mady

Robert P. I agree that a reenactment would have provided definitive answers and would have made the theory of shots coming from the TSBD impossible to promote. SPECTRE hanging out the fifth floor window, 10 feet below a rifle taking target practice would have been of interest. But I don't believe there was ever confusion as to where the shots really came from, the problem before the WC was to create enough false evidence to cause doubts and to propagate fiction conducive to help justify lies of the WC/R. It was fortunate for the WC that three black men were nearest the SN that the FBI could successfully pressure into lying. Remember they were each asked about criminal pasts, no other witnesses were queried about run-ins with the law, not so subtle hints to keep them in line? Would be interesting to know if WILLIAMS and DOUGHERTY were actually on the sixth floor during the assassination. CURRY claimed in his book that most of the stock on the sixth floor was moved toward the front windows because of work being done on the floor, DOUGHERTY may have been near the windows prior to the motorcade as was WILLIAMS, I believe that witnesses that claimed to see activity on the sixth floor prior to the motorcade saw either DOUGHERTY or WILLIAMS or both. They may have also noticed WILLIAMS in the sixth floor SN window during the assassination.

Robert P. I agree on the Altgens #6, it would be of interest to know an experts opinion. For what it is worth, until someone can prove otherwise CHANEY is beside the limo looking directly at KENNEDY. HARGIS, MARTIN, KINNEY, HILL and ROBERTS attentions apparently are also at KENNEDY. Robert please tell me who in Altgens #6 is reacting to having heard two high powered rifle shots, or even one rifle shot? How about one barely audible silenced shot? Who's attention may be toward the unusual odd behavior of the President? Robert P. even worse, NORMAN, JARMAN and WILLIAMS had a discussion immediately following the assassination to determine that the sounds may have been gunfire and that someone may have been shooting at the President, they then discussed a possibility that shots may have come from somewhere within the TSBD, they did not discuss shots having come from the SN and only NORMAN claimed to have heard spent shells hitting a floor (we don't know which floor) and the sound of the bolt moving to cycle a round. NORMAN, JARMAN and WILLIAMS after deciding that the shots may have come from within the TSBD; NORMAN and WILLIAMS from some where above and JARMAN somewhere to the left and below (whether inside or outside the building was not determined), "ran" to the Western windows to watch the Sheriff Deputies and Police search the rail yards, sometime later they realized they should be afraid and ran down to the street to find a policeman, even though they had seen a policeman roaming on the 5th floor earlier but thought nothing about it at the time. Let me know if you think I am exaggerating or making any of this up? Contrary testimony from, ADAMS, HOPSON and GARNER (presumably STLYES also) watching the motorcade from fourth floor windows believed the shots came from the direction of the monument, none of these woman believed shots came from the TSBD. Immediately following the gunfire ADAMS and STYLES reacted by running down the stairs and attempted to get to the rail yards but were turned back by a police officer.

Sequence of events according to article "Dallas Herald" from JESSE CURRY'S book, page 41 KENNEDY shot and fell into the arms of JACKIE (this is the head wound), THEN CONNALLY shot in the back and fell to the floor at his wife's feet. Coincidence they got this correct on November 22, 1963, And this is exactly what is depicted in Z-film frames?

Robert P, yes I have been curious about the same thing. The diorama must be speculation concerning JACKSONS actions. Is it that CHANEY and JACKSON were removed from Z-Film or are they out of frame and Sprocket hole area for good reasons? If they were removed is it because of technical problems with altering the Z-film or could it be because of their actions during the assassination? It would be interesting to hear from film experts that have been to DP and could determine why CHANEY and JACKSON do not appear in later frames in the Z-film. We do know by Nix and Muchmore films that all the MC police fell back to positions behind the limo bumper sometime after Z-255.

Same "The Dallas Times Herald' article "Photographer Bob Jackson of the Time Herald heard one shot and then two more rapid shots. From his vantage point in an open air convertible the eight car in the procession, Jackson saw two men peering from the building window on the fifth floor. They were looking directly above their heads. Jackson saw a rifle being drawn back into a sixth floor window." Lets deconstruct these lies from BOB JACKSON 1) NORMAN, JARMAN and WILLAIMS three men who where supposedly located in the fifth floor windows testified specifically to not having looked up to the sixth floor SN window directly over head, at any time during or after the assassination. 2) Shot sequence bham....bham.bham this is actually true but goes against the WC/R three shot scenario timing. 3) First shot was silent and entered KENNEDY'S throat, JACKSON was unaware of this shot. The first rifle shot came from the side and caused the fatal head wound. JACKSON can not be telling the truth about looking up at this time and seeing the weapon that caused the fatal head wound. 4) Interesting that JACKSON claimed seeing only two men on the fifth floor because this reinforces my belief that WILLIAMS ate his lunch in the snipers nest and stayed there to watch the motorcade, after the gunfire he joined NORMAN and JARMAN on the fifth floor to watch the activity of law enforcement search the rail yards. One reason why NORMAN, WILLIAMS and JARMAN may have all insisted they heard no sounds coming from the sixth floor was in part true and helped to protect WILLIAMS. They had to know with absolute certainty that shots came from the monument area and that OSWALD was not only not on the sixth floor but that no shots came from the TSBD. JARMAN insisted that shots came from below and to the left, he did not fall in line. NORMAN and WILLIAMS only claimed shots came from somewhere in the building, no claim was made about the SN as the location of the rifle shots. 5) JACKSON flat out lied to gain favor and or to gain notoriety.

Reading JESSE CURRY'S book page 41 is a reprint of article from "The Dallas Time Herald" presenting the assassination. I have tried to convey to this forum the FACT that CONNALLY is shot in the back and is driven down and to his left as a result and ends up on the floor of the limo, these action occur starting at Z-325. Published on November 22, 1963 is precisely the presented scenario, printed in Dallas news. This account appears to have occurred before the official story began to take it's final shape where 'they' altered the wounding of CONNALLY to have occurred around Z-231. "Gov. Connally was shot in the back. He fell to the floor at his wife's feet." The news got it right. By the time CONNALLY gave his bedside confession the timing of the occurrence of his wounds was changed and as a result you all now believe the lies that were constructed to create the fiction of the WC/R. I have posted CONNALLYS impossibly quick movements made between frames Z-313 and Z-325 as well as actions following Z-325 in that he is driven down and to his left by the impact of a bullet. There should be no doubt that CONNALLY is wounded after the fatal head wound that occurred about Z-313. Once it is established that CONNALLY is wounded at Z-325, there is no longer a reason to consider the WC/R has value, it can be fully realized it is nothing but a political lie intended to hide the truth of a conspiracy and a coup. Take a stance. This follows the four shot scenario, where the three rifle shots heard started at Z-313. Just as the majority of the witnesses claimed. Deconstruct the Lie which is CONNALLY was wounded sometime before Z-313, The FACT is CONNALLY is wounded after frame Z-313, fatal wound to KENNEDY.

Paul T. there is plenty of evidence that OSWALD shot the President from the sixth floor, all of it is false. The X-rays are false as is the autopsy report as is the autopsy photographs, so what are you basing your theory on, one doctor supposedly pulling a bullet from KENNEDY at Parkland unbeknown to the entire medical staff present in the emergency room? This is the absolute problem with the assassination, a proliferation of evidence leading away from the truth that is too tantalizing to resist.

RUBY claimed WALKER and JBS were the culprits? I thought RUBY claimed people at the highest level (>LBJ<) was responsible for putting him in an uncompromising position in order to get him to murder OSWALD. So you are saying even though WALKER and JBS was responsible for masterminding the assassination that LBJ contracted with the mob to have OSWALD murdered to cover-up WALKER and JBS connection. This is highly unlikely. Why not just have the DPD hang OSWALD in his cell? What sort of pressure do you put on someone to go on a suicide mission? RUBY was forced to murder OSWALD himself because he had arranged to have him murdered and his arrangements were unsuccessful, I believe the mob told RUBY get the job done one way or the other or else. RUBY was forced to do it himself when BAKER failed at the TSBD and the specific members of DPD failed at the TT.

Paul T., one 'gas gun' and one high powered rifle make perfect sense. They got 4 shots for the sound from three, in other words the vast majority of witnesses reported hearing three shots, (yes there were some witnesses who claimed one, two and more than three shots) but putting these aberrant reports from these witnesses aside can we agree that there was the sound from just three rifle shots in DP? If there had only been silent shots: 1) Assuming the silent shot carried toxic or poisoned pellets, how many would they want to shoot with potential for collateral damage? Also if they only shot with a silent weapon, the citizens may have demanded a full investigation in that LHO would not have access to this technology, Also the silent weapon appeared to wound by toxin not by force from projectile. 2) They still needed a 'patsy' whether it was OSWALD or the Cubans, These culprits would have had access to conventional weapons not spy craft stuff. 3) They needed KENNEDY dead, but they also needed to generate a story that we would swallow. You can't possible test out a 'gas gun' we have no idea how advanced this technology was or what sort of sound it made. I doubt the CIA or HUNT would hand over the murder weapon, but you are welcome to make a request.

Paul T. are we done discussing the assassination and what occurred with the limo on Elm Street. You have any comment on the connection to the 'gas gun' that Marrs mentioned and the fact that no one in DP reacted to KENNEDY being wounded in the throat? What is it about the fact that no one responded to gunshots until after Z-313 that seems to be impossible to comprehend, the majority of testimony supports this when analyzed with the realization that witnesses experienced gunshots following Z-313 and what they describe are not the reaction to the first silent shot at Z-189 but to the rifle shot at Z-313 and the two additional rifle shots that followed, every film and photograph supports this fact ! Real simple don't believe me about the witnesses testimonies, start reading civilian testimonies and tell me which one does not describe exactly what I am claiming as true.

Paul T., it is understandable that WALKER and JBC were linked to the distribution of propaganda against President KENNEDY, where is the link they mastermind the assassination or carried out the assassination? How did they persuade the US Military to alter the wounds and create a false autopsy report. How did they persuade the CIA to alter evidence? The FBI was on site immediately after the assassination pressuring witnesses to adopt three shots originating from the TSBD story, this means that the FBI had been persuaded to join in the coup also. Where are the links?

Paul, your thinking is askew, it was not simply in about 6 seconds, this thinking is still anchored to the deceptive foundation of three shots. From z-189 to Z-313 was almost 7 seconds. When the first rifle shot occurred at Z-313 there was a slight pause (2-3 seconds) and then two additional rifle shots followed in quick succession, as far as everyone knew the assassination only took 3 to 3 1-/2 seconds, witnesses were unaware of the first silent shot. When the three rifle shots occurred the SSA did not have time to react. READY immediately jumped from the QM to rush to protect Our President, but was recalled and BENNETT pulled out an automatic rifle in defense, both acts can be seen in film or photograph, these actions occur following Z-313. Following the first rifle shot heard. Same as the SSA protecting the VP, they react after the first rifle shot heard, which was at Z-313. The entire assassination took 9 or 10 seconds. Did the limo slow or momentarily stop, yes it slowed around Z-300 after CONNALLY laid back on top of NELLIE, GREER slowed to allow HILL to board the limo, GREER then slowed more or momentarily stopped in reaction to hearing the first rifle shot at Z-313, after HILL reaches the limo about Z-340, GREER floors it and almost looses HILL in the process.

Kathy, that is a great suggestion, thank you

Paul T. this is exciting Paul, you will see the connection. The first shot was fired by a weapon that was not a conventional rifle with a silencer but a weapon made for assassination, I proposed that it was operated by compressed gas, hence made a noise maybe similar to a bb gun, it's projectile carried a toxic or poisoned pellet which can be seen to have effected KENNEDY dramatically, it may have eventually killed him if they had been unsuccessful causing another wound that would be fatal, effectively KENNEDY was "dead" as a result of the throat wound. Here is a possible link to WALKER and the weapon used for the first shot. In CROSSFIRE, on page 257 in section on WALKER Marrs writes about people known to be strongly associated with WALKER. "It is noteworthy that Nelson Hunt's interests apparently ran to violent extremes. A former Hunt family security man, ex-FBI agent Paul Rothermeil, has claimed he was approached by Nelson Bunker Hunt while working for H.L. Hunt. Rothermeil said the younger Hunt wanted help in forming a paramilitary organization and would eliminate opponents with a 'gas gun' imported from Europe. (Victims of this exotic weapon reportedly appear to have suffered a heart attack) Rothermeil said Hunt planned to recruit this private army from General Walker's Dallas Birch Society group. Hunt has denied Rothermeil's allegation, claiming, "I think you'll find he's CIA"" The weapon used to wound KENNEDY in the throat could be the weapon that is being described by Rothermeil. Paul, now it makes sense why NIXON, HOOVER and LBJ met at the night before the assassination at the Murchison mansion, oil money fueled the assassination, WALKER was involved. Paul, you maybe correct in that WALKER was up to his eyeballs in the assassination, thanks for all the information, I look forward to having additional discussions with you.

Paul T. or anyone else if you can comprehend my last post and understand that it represents a truer reality for the assassination I will give you another piece of information that you may find interesting.

Paul T. Again if you can envision that GREER and KELLERMAN are not part of the conspiracy they are reacting normally to a situation as it develops. After the limo turns the corner onto Elm, at about Z-189 a shot is fired and strikes Our President in the throat, the shot is silent, no one is aware that a shot has been fired or that KENNEDY has been wounded. The evidence to support this is the majority of testimony, Z-film and Altgens #6 which is taken at ~Z-255 in which you can see that bystanders are unaware of any gunfire and there is no overt reactions from any SSA to supposedly the sound of one or two rifle shots. Some of the SSA did hear a pop or a noise and were searching for the source of this odd sound, JACKIE is aware that JOHN is experiencing some sort of distress but since she did not hear a sound she has no idea what is going on (her attention is to CONNALLY who appears to be saying something to her). Bystanders continue to applaud the approach and passing of the limo as if nothing has happened because as far as they knew nothing unusual was happening. Some of the SSA in the QM became aware of the odd behavior within the limo as well as KELLERMAN and GREER, they both turned around, maybe to determine if there was a problem, since no one in the rear seats were crying out for help there must have been confusion on their part as to what was happening. (IF you can envision that no one heard gunfire until Z-313, this all make sense) When CONNALLY laid down on top of NELLIE ~Z-300, this alarmed HILL and he started to run to the limo, at the same instant GREER slowed the limo to allow HILL to board as quickly as possible, at Z-313 the first rifle shot is heard and GREER reacts by hitting the breaks, another rifle shot is fired then in quick succession another rifle shot, as HILL reaches the limo GREER floors it to escape and almost looses HILL. If you can take a step back from the dogma we have grown up with and understand that the three rifle shot theory put forward by the government was false from the beginning you may realize that the scenario I have just posted is the answer to all of the questions linking testimony and film and photographic evidence to the assassination. All of the evidence will begin to make sense. The reason we have discarded testimony, film and photographic evidence is because we could not comprehend how the assassination actually occurred. We can not understand why people did not react or why the SSA protecting LBJ claimed they reacted yet there is no evidence of it in Altgens #6, this is because when Altgens took #6 the first rifle shot had not yet occurred and the SSA had not yet reacted. It is that simple. We bought into the lie and have tried to make scenarios work within a framework dictated by the government which has been a deception. This is why the WC/R can not be true nor can any conspiracy theory be true that uses with the three shot lie as its foundation. .

.30-06 : me too : thanks for the correction. Paul T., I have been thinking about your points from the post #282. You obviously know a lot about WALKER and are capable of defending your position in a gentlemanly manner which I whole heartedly applaud. You also have opened my eyes to the possibility that WALKER may have played a role in the assassination or cover-up even if it was to falsely entangle OSWALD in shenanigans he had not been a part of. I reread CROSSFIRE section on WALKER to see what Marrs had written about WALKER, worth reading to see all the connections WALKER had with likely players in the coup. There is a large thread on WALKER that has been bumped back onto the homepage, maybe I should take a break from this conversation and see what has been posted on this subject. I look forward to continuing this conversation if I can understand WALKER. Concerning the assassination : I do KNOW about this. I know that the speed of the limo was dictated by the route, as I tried to communicate to you previously the motor-cade was a parade it encompassed the lead car to the last car or bus, CURRY had to pace the parade to wind its way thru downtown and all the turns, if he had accelerated down Elm and then GREER they would have out paced the vehicles following and the parade would have been strung out for blocks. The planners of the route indirectly dictated the pace of the limo because of the route. If you think about this objectively, at the time, there was no apparent danger to influence CURRY or GREER to rush out of downtown or down Elm. What would it have appeared like to the parade watchers to see the limo accelerate away and leave behind his entourage? Consider CURRY's actions and GREERS actions as being normal not conspiratorial. If you can understand this I can then provide you with information so you may understand what happened next.

Yes Paul I read it. Paul if we were splitting hairs concerning the exact content of Marrs words I would agree with you, but if WALKER had told Marrs that two men were there and OSWALD was one of them even though he didn't pull the trigger I would think it disingenuous of Marrs to have made that statement. Marrs has too much credibility that would be compromised telling half-truths concerning WALKER or OSWALD. I can see your logic Paul and I can see that WALKER needs to be examined to see how he played into the cover-up or conspiracy. Isn't it possible that if the DPD knew about OSWALD in their city that he might have been a suspect because of his known history, is it possible that he was picked up as a routine follow-up to any possible shooter? That OSWALD was released because there was no evidence he was involved or even that he had a solid alibi? I think you are looking at shenanigans by either the conspirators to throw WALKER out front as a diversion or no-body by the name of WALKER desiring to again share the stage, hey look anyone, OSWALD shot at me too...really he did.

Paul T. anything may be possible, but in reading much of Jim Marrs works and listening to him I would personally consider him to be a master journalist who has been impeccable when it comes to fairly gathering evidence. I don't necessarily agree with his analysis or conclusions but when he claims WALKER told him to his face, I will take Marrs word for it. Maybe I am playing the fool, but until I see major flaws in Marrs work I will take what he says as evidence of value. Is it possible to debunk Marrs statement, is it possible to post the authentic forensic 1964 police report from WALKER shooting, was it a MC 6.5 or a 30:6 bullet?

Mr Caddy, thank you for the video links, Marrs is always worth listening to.

Ian, what you posted is possible, I would respond by pointing to an analysis of the notes, these do not appear to be written down in a retrospective manner in other words they appear to me to be notes that would be contemporaneous in that they are bullet points, the kind of notes that might be hastily taken during a meeting, enough information to be able to recall a subject but not detailed because listening to what is said next is most important. If a person would sit down with these notes at a later time they would broaden them to the fullest extent, also rewritten notes tend to be orderly not scribbled in haste. I would think those that desire to distance these notes from the moments of interrogation or from being authentic have an agenda to discredit the content of the notes which are of absolute significance if TRUE. These maybe the only authentic pieces of evidence of what OSWALD actually claimed during interrogation, the fact that he is said to have been on the steps during the assassination is devastating to the WC/R believers but also for some curious reason absolutely intolerably unacceptable to the conspiracy herders. Many conspiracists fear OSWALD having been on the steps during the assassination as much as the WC/R believers...hilarious...

Paul T., FYI on thread concerning Jim Marrs, Mr. Caddy has posted a video of Jim Marrs presentation, post #14, at about 30 minutes into this Marrs states he talked with WALKER fall of 1964 and WALKER claimed he was told the rifle used in the attack on him was a 30-6 according to the police. Marrs: "WALKER did not believe OSWALD had taken a shot at him" Quote from WALKER told to Marrs - WALKER: "look, OSWALD and RUBY knew each other"

Jon What evidence do you trust? What evidence do you believe to be rock solid with out doubt true? I don't mean this as a jab at your views, I would really like to know what you use as your foundation to comprehend and understand the assassination.

Jon, my understanding is that FRITZS notes were taken contemperanously during one of OSWALDS interrogations. I have no proof that this is true. BAKER does claim he confronted a man in the lunch room drinking a coke in another affidavit, which can be seen to have then been crossed out - which is fully corroborative with OSWALDS claims to FRITZ, what are the chances that OSWALD and BAKER both made up the same lie? Jon I don't trust any of the DPD, but they did make mistakes in the cover-up, FRITZS interrrogation notes may be one of them, in that it was not destroyed. I believe it is the true response of OSWALD to questioning.

Jon, one other piece of evidence I believe is of paramount importance is FRITZS notes that claim OSWALD went to the second floor lunch room following the assassination to get a coke and was confronted there by an officer. This piece of evidence if authentic is the most important evidence we have to corroborate BAKER and TRULY's actions as well as OSWALDS. Threes a charm. I would like to know if researchers have confirmed FRITZs notes to be authentic, any comments?