Jack White

Maybe I missed it, but tell us again the provenance of the "FBI" photo of the cracked windshield. Thanks. Jack Jack I asked Anthony Marsh the provenance of the FBI Whitehouse garage photo on his website. This was his reply Quote: It is known as CE 350. It was taken by FBI agent Robert Frazier about 2 AM that night when his team examined the limousine in the White House garage. Here is the Corbis version. I bought a copy negative and had an extreme blow-up made of the crack. http://the-puzzle-pa.../Corbis%201.jpg Thanks! But we must remember FRAZIER LIES and the FBI LIES. Jack

The two photos were released to the press by the HSCA with a caption which asked for the help of the public in identifying them. I somewhere (from Jim Marrs) have a copy made from the actual AP newswire images. Obviously neither man even resembles LHO. Jack

No matter if somehow the SS could be embarrassed - or perhaps worse - by this other film, it's indeed extremely odd that only a selected few have actually viewed the film. Beside, that is, those who certainly must have watched it when an un-named TV-station aired it? It all just doesn't add up, in my opinion. No...not just a select few. All except Cranor were in group settings. At the time, most thought they were seeing the Zapruder film, which most had not seen previously. Only much later, when COPIES OF THE EXTANT FILM BECAME NUMEROUS did they realize that it does not show things they vividly remember, such as the limo turning the corner and stopping during the shots. I would guess that hundreds saw it...but long before the extant film became widely seen. Only in retrospect did some of them remember that the two films did not match. Jack

As I recall, maybe wrongly, Mary Sherman's death was never ruled a murder...maybe even an accident. Does anyone know? I think it is Haslam who has turned her death into a murder. Jack How else do you explain a burned and mutilated body lying on a perfectly normal bed? The mattress was on fire in a smoke-filled room when firefighters arrived and dragged it and pitched it to the parking lot. There were old-fashioned bed springs scattered on the floor. There was a pile of extremely charred clothing on the victim's abdomen, apparently used as kindling to start the fire. The body was not mutilated in the narrow sense, although she was certainly brutally attacked: 8 stab wounds, including defensive wounds to the arms and fingers and a fatal stab wound to the heart. The wound to the labia appears to be more from an errant stab motion rather than a deliberate attempt at mutilation. Her death was officially classified as a homicide from the beginning. There were a lot of detectives following a lot of leads. So where does Haslam get that she was killed by an "accelerator" and her body moved, etc. etc? This would seem to rival some of Baker's fantasies. Jack Haslam breathlessly notes that the victim's right arm was largely burned away, bone and all, and that some of the clothing piled on the abdomen was badly burned, while some was not burned. Noting a criminologist's statement that some of the clothing would have to reach 500 degrees before igniting, the author surmises that, because some of the clothing was unburned, the temperature never reached 500 degrees. He asks a cremator: What temperature would bone have to reach to be largely burned away? The cremator indicates a temperature of 1600-2000 degrees. Haslam surmises that the crime (2000d) does not match the crime scene (500d). He then states as facts that the damage to the body did not occur at the crime scene, and that she was burned earlier, somewhere else, and moved to the scene. What could have caused such burns? A linear particle accelerator, he theorizes. In my view, this is filled with holes. The degree figures given are professional estimates. The temperature at fire scenes can vary widely, even within feet or inches. There is also the longevity factor, the smoldering factor. Considering this and other factors, I don't think one can leap to the conclusion that the injuries were not inflicted at the crime scene. And the leap to the linear particle accelerator is preposterous, based on NO evidence at all. Haslam evidently does not know of the documented cases of SPONTANEOUS HUMAN COMBUSTION. Google it. Jack Do you think that's what happened to Dr. Sherman? Had that been the case, would there have been anything left? I did not say I thought that happened. I was simply countering a statement made. Look up SPONTANEOUS HUMAN COMBUSTION. There are many documented cases. In many of them, various extremities are left untouched while the rest has burned away. It is similar to a burning candle, with the body like a candle's wax. If there were indeed documented stab wounds, I think that would rule out SHC. But I am no expert. I do doubt the particle accelerator theory, which bizarrely requires transporting a badly burned body and faking an attack. Jack

Maybe I missed it, but tell us again the provenance of the "FBI" photo of the cracked windshield. Thanks. Jack

All reports I remember reading had JFK on a standard emergency gurney, not a special operating room table. Jack

In my opinion the reason Monk does not want to tell more about his viewing of the other film is that as a youth (his father had important Washington connections) he had access to many individuals still living whose safety might be compromised if it becomes known that they know of THE OTHER FILM. This is speculation on my part. Perhaps some day the situation will change. Jack

Excellent GIF, but they do not depict the same image. I do not know what that means. Jack

Jesse has the clout and audience. Dick Russell has the facts. Great team. Jack

Do you find it mildly interesting that the WC was interested in the PUBIC HAIRS of LHO and the FALSE TEETH of Jack Ruby's mother?

Another very reasonable post. Jack

There is NO WAY that Holt is one of the tramps. Jack

As I recall, maybe wrongly, Mary Sherman's death was never ruled a murder...maybe even an accident. Does anyone know? I think it is Haslam who has turned her death into a murder. Jack How else do you explain a burned and mutilated body lying on a perfectly normal bed? The mattress was on fire in a smoke-filled room when firefighters arrived and dragged it and pitched it to the parking lot. There were old-fashioned bed springs scattered on the floor. There was a pile of extremely charred clothing on the victim's abdomen, apparently used as kindling to start the fire. The body was not mutilated in the narrow sense, although she was certainly brutally attacked: 8 stab wounds, including defensive wounds to the arms and fingers and a fatal stab wound to the heart. The wound to the labia appears to be more from an errant stab motion rather than a deliberate attempt at mutilation. Her death was officially classified as a homicide from the beginning. There were a lot of detectives following a lot of leads. So where does Haslam get that she was killed by an "accelerator" and her body moved, etc. etc? This would seem to rival some of Baker's fantasies. Jack Haslam breathlessly notes that the victim's right arm was largely burned away, bone and all, and that some of the clothing piled on the abdomen was badly burned, while some was not burned. Noting a criminologist's statement that some of the clothing would have to reach 500 degrees before igniting, the author surmises that, because some of the clothing was unburned, the temperature never reached 500 degrees. He asks a cremator: What temperature would bone have to reach to be largely burned away? The cremator indicates a temperature of 1600-2000 degrees. Haslam surmises that the crime (2000d) does not match the crime scene (500d). He then states as facts that the damage to the body did not occur at the crime scene, and that she was burned earlier, somewhere else, and moved to the scene. What could have caused such burns? A linear particle accelerator, he theorizes. In my view, this is filled with holes. The degree figures given are professional estimates. The temperature at fire scenes can vary widely, even within feet or inches. There is also the longevity factor, the smoldering factor. Considering this and other factors, I don't think one can leap to the conclusion that the injuries were not inflicted at the crime scene. And the leap to the linear particle accelerator is preposterous, based on NO evidence at all. Haslam evidently does not know of the documented cases of SPONTANEOUS HUMAN COMBUSTION. Google it. Jack

Jesse Ventura seems to be the only public figure who understands what is going on...and has the courage to say so. Letter to the Ruling Class from Jesse Ventura You control our world. You’ve poisoned the air we breathe, contaminated the water we drink, and copyrighted the food we eat. We fight in your wars, die for your causes, and sacrifice our freedoms to protect you. You’ve liquidated our savings, destroyed our middle class, and used our tax dollars to bailout your unending greed. We are slaves to your corporations, zombies to your airwaves, servants to your decadence. You’ve stolen our elections, assassinated our leaders, and abolished our basic rights as human beings. You own our property, shipped away our jobs, and shredded our unions. You’ve profited off of disaster, destabilized our currencies, and raised our cost of living. You’ve monopolized our freedom, stripped away our education, and have almost extinguished our flame. We are hit… we are bleeding… but we ain’t got time to bleed. We will bring the giants to their knees and you will witness our revolution! Sincerely, Jesse

But she wasn't smart enough to figure out a way to get her story out without all the side-issues of libel and ridicule. People with this medical syndrome actually believe their fantasies are true. She likely could pass a polygraph test proving her veracity. Jack

Jack, you old nitpicker, you. Maybe Boise State I mean the CIA slipped that into the Wikipedia article as a "barium meal." Please stop picking on Tom. LOL --Thomas It is not nitpicking to declare that REAL RESEARCHERS DO NOT USE WIKIPEDIA as a source. Anyone can put ANYTHING in Wikipedia. Jack

Atta boy Ron. That's the spirit. --Thomas Almost as bad, I voted for Nixon. Ever since, I have voted independent. I voted for Nixon because he was NOT LBJ. I used to think some presidents were "good". I liked Ike and FDR. But after 40+ years of study, only JFK stands as "not too bad". All others were bad, crooks, or worse. LBJ was worst, followed by Nixon and both Bushes. Others were bad or simply mediocre. Jack

Jack White is mistaken.... according to these sources, Davey O'Brien was FBI for many years. http://blogs.chron.com/txpotomac/2009/11/ By the way Jack, I strongly suspect the man in the upper right portion of the photo is IB Hale, because I recently posted photos of him on this forum from the time when he was a High School athletic director. I discovered this obit. Did you know before I posted this recently on another thread that Hale's wife was a Kingsbery? The point, gentlemen, is not that I posted TCU as SCU, or that I posted the wrong venue establishing the acquaintance of Sammy Baugh with a man married to an owner of Tucker-Manning Insurance Co... The point is that the FBI withheld a sensitive report about Hale's twin sons doing a B&E of an apartment rented by Rosselli, just 18 months before the WC convened, and that the FBI and WC failed to mention IB Hale when they reported to the American people that Virginia Hale of Fortune Rd., Ft Worth, sent LHO to a successful job interview at Leslie Welding, and that, over the subsequent 29 years until his death, John Connally did not seem to notice that the mother of the young man who claimed he tried to slap away the shotgun that killed Connally's daughter at the moment that it discharged, was the same woman who sent LHO, the man the government "established" as the shooter of Connally, to a job interview at Leslie Welding. You're making me wonder why I am sharing anything on these threads. Is that your intent? What is up with Scully? TCU NEVER HAD A HEAD FOOTBALL COACH NAMED NOAH EVERETT. Where does he get all this false information? Hall of Fame Coach Francis A. Schmidt was followed at TCU by Hall of Fame Coach Leo R. "Dutch" Meyer, who coached the 1936 National Champion Frogs. There was NO coach Noah Everett in between Schmidt and Meyer! Scully would do better to study I. B. Hale's sons, one of whom married a daughter of John Connally, but later "accidentally" shot her to death. And it is well known that both Hale and O'Brien became FBI agents, so what is the big deal, introducing fictitious coaches at misnamed schools playing in erroneous bowl games? Does this pass for scholarly research? Jack

I have been trying to post a link to a good documentary. So far I have been unsuccessful I will try again later.

As I recall, maybe wrongly, Mary Sherman's death was never ruled a murder...maybe even an accident. Does anyone know? I think it is Haslam who has turned her death into a murder. Jack How else do you explain a burned and mutilated body lying on a perfectly normal bed? The mattress was on fire in a smoke-filled room when firefighters arrived and dragged it and pitched it to the parking lot. There were old-fashioned bed springs scattered on the floor. There was a pile of extremely charred clothing on the victim's abdomen, apparently used as kindling to start the fire. The body was not mutilated in the narrow sense, although she was certainly brutally attacked: 8 stab wounds, including defensive wounds to the arms and fingers and a fatal stab wound to the heart. The wound to the labia appears to be more from an errant stab motion rather than a deliberate attempt at mutilation. Her death was officially classified as a homicide from the beginning. There were a lot of detectives following a lot of leads. So where does Haslam get that she was killed by an "accelerator" and her body moved, etc. etc? This would seem to rival some of Baker's fantasies. Jack

Scully writes erroneously: Once upon a time, the founding director of the nations internal federal police intiated a recruitment drive. Newspapers at the time reported that the FBI had hired "scores" of former college football players as agent trainees. Two of the new hires were SCU All American college stars, Davey O'brien and IB Hale. O'Brien had succeeded SCU star Sammy Baugh at the QB postion, after Baught's team was narrowly defeated in the New Year's day 1936 game played in the Rose Bowl. One of the tri-captains on the winning, SMU football team that day was... TCU stars O'Brien and Hale had brief pro careers, and did work for a short time as FBI agents. Later Hale became director of security at General Dynamics in FW, and O'Brien became a FW oil man. Sammy Baugh became a pro for the Washington Redskins and still holds many NFL records. He was not involved with the FBI, and in fact was a star in some western movies, not the FBI. TCU did NOT play in the 1936 Rose Bowl, but the Sugar Bowl. In 2011 TCU did play in the Rose Bowl, but that is another story. Jack

As I recall, maybe wrongly, Mary Sherman's death was never ruled a murder...maybe even an accident. Does anyone know? I think it is Haslam who has turned her death into a murder. Jack How else do you explain a burned and mutilated body lying on a perfectly normal bed? One does not explain. One relies on the ruling of the medical examiner's death certificate. Jack

Fair enough, Jack. And the perplexing reality is that, as an answer to your question of where do we go from here, this has not been followed through. I could think of a whole range of different questions to ask: (1) Who is in possession of this film? And why? (2) What's the secrecy all about? The Z-film has been out in the open for years. (3) Which television station aired this film, and when? (4) If, as indicated by what I understand, Intelligent Agencys (US/Abroad?)are in the know about this, then why would we believe them in this instance? What would be the reason to think that this film is authentic? (5) How can it be verified that this film exists? As has been stated many times, exceptional claims demands exceptional evidence, sayso's are certainly not enough. To name a few. I can think of questions like that too. I cannot come up with answers, and do not even know where to begin. Also you seem to think that ONLY a SINGLE copy of this film existed. It is clear to me that each of the six persons saw a different COPY of the same film. Dan Marvin, for instance, said it was a CIA TRAINING FILM. Millicent Cranor said she saw it at the NYC headquarters of a major TV network. Rich DellaRosa said he saw it three different times at three different places, but a secrecy oath (NASA?) prevented him from disclosing circumstances. The researcher Rich disclosed more info to is a member of this forum. So is Greg Burnham, who is another who saw the film. Rich was in the air force, but was assigned to NASA missions. All viewings seem to have been connected with government or media operations. So how do you go about asking the government about the secret film they are suppressing? Jack

A really sick woman. But a very smart one. She should have been a novelist.

It's a bit of a weird one for me, Greg. The fact that it was claimed Oswald denied living there always appeared to me to be the DPD trying to expose Oswald's flailing attempts to distance himself from the backyard photos. Strictly a case of "look at this weirdo, we've got photos of him standing in the garden of this property with the murder weapon and he's denying ever lived there." There is the letter that Marina allegedly sent to Ruth Paine that was written on March 4, but not posted until March 8 that suggests that they did actually move there: http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0054a.htm Marina stated that they moved by pushing their belongings around the corner in a baby stroller but Mr. George B. Gray stated they were moved in by a woman driving a white station wagon. If this was Ruth Paine, then why would Marina have to send her directions in a letter? There is so much more that really doesn't make very much sense to me, some of which you have highlighted above. For instance; Oswald was allegedly asked to move from the Elsbeth apartment by the owner, Mr JUREK, because he was arguing with his wife and this information was initially furnished by the Elsbeth Building Supervisor Mr. Manny Tobias. The weird thing is the interview was conducted by the Postal Inspection Service (and we all know what, and who, that means): http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10697&relPageId=3 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10697&relPageId=4 However, Oswald never requested his $5 deposit back that he was due on the Elsbeth property from the Tobiases and instead just moved out and into the Neely Street apartment around the corner. This would be the first time Oswald would walk away from money that belonged to him, the second occasion would be with Mrs. Bledsoe. Getting deposits back usually bring with them evidence of the exchange taking place, in the form of a receipt or a check, and so if something is fishy about the dates of occupation of these premises it makes sense to have Oswald just walking away from his own, much needed, money. Jurek, in his FBI statement (linked below) searched for the check deposit being refunded, and he says even though Oswald handed his key in, there was no evidence that the $5 was refunded: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10406&relPageId=245 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10406&relPageId=246 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10406&relPageId=247 According to the JUREK statement (above) Oswald was also leaving behind his obligatory "I'm a communist, and a complete idiot" evidence that would act like a trail of breadcrumbs. JUREK when he entered the Elsbeth apartment after the Oswald's left, said that it had been "pretty well cleaned out" but he did find a card that had something like "Friends of Cuba" or "Fair Play for Cuba" on it. Similar to when the FBI went into the Neely Street apartment on 11/24/63 and found a match book and a piece of yellow lined tablet paper with writing in English and Russian written on it. Even though the owner said he'd completely cleaned the place out and then went on to rent to other people, after the assassination, MORE THAN SEVEN MONTHS LATER, there is this letter found in the linen closet. Wow! The Dallas Power and Light Company still had Oswald down as renting 604 Elsbeth because they were still billing him until the end of April (23/4/63) for his gas and electricity, although the actual bills are not in the CD's and this information is simply typed into an FBI report. So how accurate they are is anyone's guess but he was still being charged for $2.16 worth of Gas and Electric AFTER he had moved out, so there was someone in that apartment using power that was still on Oswald's DPLC account number for the Elsbeth property: http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0118b.htm http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0119a.htm Mrs. Marion JUREK, then went on in her statement with the FBI to state that she found Russian papers in the apartment two or three days after they moved out: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10406&relPageId=248 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10406&relPageId=249 The most disturbing aspect of this is the statement of M. W. George, the owner of Neely Street. In his statement he claims that Oswald didn't rent the property until April 1st and stayed there until May 31st. April 1st is the day that Oswald gave his employers at Jagger Chiles Stovall a new mailing address of PO Box 2915: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=693653 In the link above, George states that he completely cleaned the property out once the Oswald's left, so it's strange that a Russian letter was found in the linen closet two days AFTER the assassination. He was then interviewed (below link) again and changed the dates of occupation and leaving from April 1st-May 31st to March 2nd-May 1st. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=57698&relPageId=51 There is something incredibly strange regarding Oswald's residence, across the board. Excellent...this is lots of good new research.