Justin Martell

B and no peeking.

It is not the debating of ideas that is the problem. It is the overwhelming spread of your so called "debates". These "debates" that end up being nothing more than attacks. These "debates" could easily be kept in a few threads but when one person feels their side of it is not heard, bam another thread saying virtually the same thing. I stated that debate is important. Extremely important. My post pointed out that what you and the "photo experts" participate in Dean is NOT debate but back and forth negative exchanges that get reduced to urination contests. What I said is YOU ARE RUINING THE FORUM. You are not sharp enough to "distract" me. You are a fan. Your thoughts are rarely your own.

Great pic! Thank you for that. In all my searches through the public libraries in my home town pro conspiracy angle books on the assassination are hard to come by. Most cannot be found, but every single branch had a copy of Case Closed though. Bar None. Shame huh?

The "If you don't like it don't read it" tactic has become nearly impossible lately as it has spread far and wide to many threads or you guys just start other threads arguing essentially the same things or find roundabout ways to insult each other. It used to not be "a fact of life" at this Forum. A person has to search far and wide to find threads that are not infected with your guys horse xxxx. Although I replied to Dean's post this reply is not directed to him or any one person but (as I stated originally) to those that continue to engage in endless debate where YOU KNOW YOU HAVE ZERO CHANCE of convincing the other camp. I stand by my original comment. You guys are ruining the Forum.

And any others continually involved in the ONGOING and NEVER ENDING debate. You are ruining the forum. The spirit of debate and forwarding of new ideas from that debate is important but is that what is going on here? I fully understand that it is up to me to avoid the threads of these "debates" that I do not care for but they just keep cropping up and spreading. Like Cancer. I can not be the only person who feels this way. Not everyone on the forum is a "researcher". Although I have read many, many books about the conspiracy that killed JFK, I (and others like me I suspect) have much to learn still. I rely on the forum for new information and ideas about the case. I think that what is happening with the film/photography crowd is no longer moving towards new ideas and learning, if it ever was.

"What's the deal with that? Was a purely Russian account taken down to compare to his translation?" I believe that I read somewhere in Peter Dale Scott's Deep Politics that there were some discrepencies about her translation. Maybe something about the rifle? Sorry I can't be more clear.

I think the whole arguing back and forth about the Z-film or any other photographs/films is a waste of time. I believe that in a court of law the BEST that can be hoped for is a draw over these issues. CT photo/film experts vs. LN photo/film experts=draw in a court case. Factor in that we cant even figure out who our photo/film experts are and you are really talking about a sad state of affairs. Do we really think that a U.S. judge or a jury is going to accept a bunch of fuzzy blobs as evidence?

I could not agree more Shanet, I have been using this technique for a few months now and let me tell you the blood pressure has remained steady ever since. 240 posts in a month and a half will turn into 2507 before you know it. You can ignore as many members as you like. I have a funny feeling that if more people chose this route those number of posts will not continue to grow as rapidly as they have been in the past. Good call Shanet

Justin, Follow the link that I provided to Sprague's letter to Cutler. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...indpost&p=29688 - lee <{POST_SNAPBACK}> More on DeMohrenschildt. These excerpts are from Deadly Secret's pgs. 236-238 His fourth and last wife was ...the daughter of a director of the Nationalist Chinese railways system. In 1962 he opened an office in Dallas and joined the exclusive Dallas Petroleum Club. By this time he was on a first name basis with William R, Grace of Grace Lines, NO Saints owner John Mecom and George and Herman Brown, who sponsored LBJ's political campaign.....DeMohrenschildt may have been undertaking a contract of a different kind. A clue surfaced in 1976 when a de-classified CIA Office of Security file dated April 29, 1963 read "[Deleted] Case officer had requested an expedited check of George DEMOHRENSCHILDT for reasons unknown to security." That terse sentence blended nicely with the concurrent disclosure of former CIA contract agent Herbert Atkin that DeMohrenschildt's real mission when he arrived at Port-Au-Prince in June was to oversee a CIA approved plot to overthrow dictator "Papa Doc" Duvalier. END From Crossfire pg. 279. Researcher Michael Levy obtained one CIA memo from former Director Richard Helm's stating that "DeMohrenschildt's trip to Yugoslavia (in 1957) provided "foreign intelligence which was promptly disseminated to other federal agencies in 10 separate reports." Another CIA memo indicated he also furnished lengthy reports on his later travels through Mexico and Central America. Marr's mentions that while in Dallas, in addition to the above mentioned individuals cited in Deadly Secrets DeMohrenschildt also knew H.L. Hunt, Clint Murchison (then owner of the Dallas Cowboys), Robert Kerr of Kerr-McGee and Jean DeMenil head of Schlumberger Corporation. (remember Jim Garrison's linkage with Schlumberger Corp and the New Orleans cuban exile weapons cache. Which Garrison alleged were provided by the CIA) NOTE MINE. Also from Crossfire page 284. During May 1963, as the DeMohrenschildt's were preparing to leave for Haiti, they stopped in Washington where, according to CIA records, DeMohrenschildt met with a CIA representative and the Assistant Director of ARMY INTELLIGENCE. .... What specifically was discussed at this meeting is not known, but at this same time another CIA documentshows that an Agency officer "requested an expedite check on George DeMohrenschildt." At this meeting was DeMohrenschildt's Haitian business associate Clemard Charles. Researchers have noted that Clemard Charles later was involved in the sale of arms and military eqipment involving a gun runner named Edward Browder. According to the HSCA Browder had leased a B-25 bomber under the name of a fictitious company and flew it to Haiti a year after the Kennedy assassination and later cashed a 24,000 check signed by Charles. Browder [was] a former Lockheed test pilot who is [this is in 1989] serving a 25 year prison sentence for 'security violations.' Browder told the HSCA he had been working for the CIA. According to author David Scheim Browder was also an associate of Jack Ruby in the 1950's when both men were arranging the sale of arms to Fidel Castro. END Lastly is the info requested about DeMohrenschildt's mysterious Doctor shortly before the end of his own life. From High Treason pg. 261 "DeMohrenschilt's wife believes that her husband was programmed to take his life on command. She say's that her husband was sent to a new Doctor in Dallas, Charles Mendoza. Jim Marrs writes in Cover-ups that a check wasa made with the Dallas County Medical Society, and Mendoza had registered with the association just two months before he began treating DeMohrenschildt. Mendoza left Dallas in December 1976, shortly after George entered Parkland for mental problems. The forwarding address the Doctor gave proved false......George underwent two or three hours of "therapy" at a time with Dr. Mendoza, which involved IV injections. George did not know exactly what the injections contained. Jeanne states "Mendoza also insisted that we buy all of George's medication from the pharmacy near his office. He explained that he was a part owner and that the medicine would cost less that way. But I checked with my usual pharmacy and learned that the medicine prices were the same if not lower, than the Dr's pharmacy. I confronted Mendoza with this information and demanded to know exactly what kind of medicine and treatment he was giving George. Mendoza then became very angry and upset, but I learned nothing useful." DeMohrenschildt quickly deteriorated emotionally, tried to take his life, became paranoid and finally appears to have shot himself. His wife says she believes that he received a phone call on the day he died, or a command of some kind which triggered his death, the day that the HSCA located him. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank you for the info, that was exactly what I was referring too but could not remember where I had read it. Sure would be nice to find out more about ol Doc Mendoza.... Thanks again, Justin

Once again James great work and thanks. I read somewhere that DeMohrenshildt was recieving some treatment from a doctor (injections?) that was new to him and that the doctor disappeared after trying to be tracked down. As soon as DeMohrenschildt started to see this doctor he apparently became more and more depressed??? I am typing this from memory so I could be wrong on some of the particulars. Is it possible that it was SUGGESTED that George shoot himself??? Has anyone read this also? Any info would be appreciated thanks, Justin.

It would appear that I just may be considerably more informed than those who expouse the "Giant Conspiracy" by the US Government/Secret Service/CIA/FBI/etc; etc; etc. To include "forged" autopsy photographs and X-rays! Perhaps a comparison of our background and training in covert operations may provide some scale by which readers could judge. I'll discuss my CIA/SS/& FBI training after you have posted yours. Tom <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hello Tom I was wondering if you could use your military experience to explain how Oswald with the poor shooting scores he recieved in the Marines achieve the feat he did in Dallas without another shooter. I am also curious about your thoughts on the HSCA acoustical tests that proved a shot was fired from the grassy knoll area while LHO was supposedly firing from the TSBD. I was also wondering if you have ever witnessed a bullet pass through two people causing 8 wounds total, yet when it is "retrieved" it appears as if it hit nothing, like it was fired into cotton or water. I think that these are some tough obstacles to climb for people who believe that LHO acted all by himself. I think that it is a possibilty that LHO was a willing conspirator and not a completely innocent person. On the other hand you have a long way to go before you convince me or most other people here that he acted entirely alone.

I like all others on the forum urge you to reconsider Shanet you are a valuable member here. Tims constant hijacking of all threads have made members (rightfully so) weary, so when possible links to Tim and dirty tricks come up you reacted in the way that alot of members wanted to. Unfortunately the links to dirty tricks and Tim cannot be proven so it was bad judgment to post about Tim in the fashion that you did. Shanet I say again that you are a valuable member here and should not let one case of bad judgment stop you from posting here, you only did what many of us wanted to. Come back Shane(t) Come back

Tim I have a funny feeling that John knew the dates didnt jive, I have a funny feeling you know that too. Its a joke and a damn good one.

That was a great one John, I am still laughing as I type this.

Which would leave us with what Tim? Here is a powerful group of men, Lansdale, Lemnitzer & the JCS, Dulles, Bissell & cabell, all with good reason to hate Kennedy, and all in a position to do something about it. MOTIVE, Kennedy had humiliated them all, more than that, they felt he was selling the country, by his soft stance on communism.These people consider themselves super patriots,they think Kennedy is unfit to hold office, they decide to do something about it.And more than that, if the right patsy can be manipulated into holding the gun, maybe, just maybe, Castro will follow Kennedy into history. The irony of the situation could not have been lost on them. And they had MEANS and OPPORTUNITY by the bucket full. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The first thing that should be put in the "pure speculation" thread is the Castro did it theory via Tim Gratz. Tim you are like a punch drunk fighter stepping back through the ropes after just being knocked through them. You have CONSTANTLY had your theory smacked around by the other members and yet you have the nerve to criticize others people posts due to speculation?

I was thinking the same thing last night when I first saw the picture but like James said last night I did not want to guess at it. Anti Castro soldiers using soviet weapons that AK-47 must be as good as they say it is! Strange indeed. I also am praying for the safety of our friends in England. I hope all is as well as it can be in a time like this. Justin

Come on guys, while Posner and McAdams et al annoy the heck out of me, I have no doubt their interest in Joannides is legitimate. After all, if Joannides' files reveal a few dirty secrets, they want to be able to say they were on the side of disclosure and openness, else they'll be discredited to the mainstream media they so covet. Let's not forget that Warren Commission attorneys like Belin and Specter became advocates for a second investigation after the CIA assassination plots and the Hosty note were uncovered in the 70's. Maybe Jeff Morley will chime in and let us know the current status of his ongoing investigation??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry Pat but I think your giving too much credit here. You are a much more learned man than I am and I mean no disrespect but your failure to believe in a large conspiracy in the case is naive. The amount of doors slamming closed by the intelligence agencies the last 40 years is overwhelming.

Tim Gratz kidding

Thanks Ron for the informative post. The Lawrence story is interesting indeed. It would be great if he would give an interview or answer some questions because it is still some odd behavior he exhibited that day.

I have always been curious about Jack Lawrence. I have heard of him as a possible shooter and possible patsy. I know of his suspicious activities at the dealership and such. I am curious why patsy and not shooter. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks, Justin

Although I have long put Tim on ignore I can read his quotes in the rest of the members posts and I would like to address the word "friends". I personally think you have to look at the lifestyle and occupation of the two people (Dillon/Kennedy) before you call them friends in the sense of the word that most of the members of this forum would use. These men are beuracrats and politicians. Most people of this type are driven by power and the only thing that satisfies them is more, so if they think hanging with the prez socially will garner them power they will do it. They will also have their wives hang with the presidents wife if that will keep them in the good graces. Are these actions sincere and acts of true friendship or just opportunistic networking. I personally dont think it qualifies as true friendship. Just my opinion.

David, I agree. The naivety of Tim's statement is incredible. His hysterical overreaction to the mere suggestion of Dillon's foreknowledge only reinforces my suspicions. While Dillon was obviously a family friend, they were from opposing political tribes, ostensibly with different support bases and they were two decades apart in age but he's got them as blood brothers. Dear oh dear. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I like the ignore feature on the forum.

It takes alot more than motive to kill the President of The United States and get away with it for more than 40 years. The Mob, Castro, or the KGB could have POSSIBLY had the means to assassinate JFK but NONE of those parties have the ability to cover it up for over 40 years. If there was ANY proof of any of those parties killing JFK it would have meant the end of their existance, which is what the power elite in the U.S. Government wanted anyway. The fact the JFK did not go along with the power elite is why he was killed. His killing would be the reason that they were looking for to enter into war. Your 16 pages of "Castro did it" are asinine. LBJ did not respond to JFK's assassination because he was afraid to suffer the same fate? JFK's vendetta against Castro? Anyone who would have been president at that time would have been doing the same thing it was pretty much the policy to assassinate new possibly communist leaders in foreign countries. Most people who have done any studying into the assassination believe that a massive conspiracy involving numerous elements of the U.S. government is what happened on 11/22/63. The fact the you do not is baffling, by your numerous posts and the intelligent words used in them I know you are not a dim bulb. So what is it?

James, Thanks for the review--I was a bit sorry that I forgot to tape it but now I don't mind. Was it a History Channel production? If so, it ranks alongside a terrible doco they produced recently which virtually blamed Kennedy for the Cuban Missile Crisis, a "reckless game of brinkmanship", according to the narration. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I find it interesting the character assassination of JFK that still goes to this day. It seems like they almost want people to think it is OK what happened in Dallas. It seems all there is to talk about are his marital infidelities or his so called lack of decisiveness at the Bay of Pigs. Its a shame that it happens here on the Forum sometimes also, hidden with compliments to other members or hidden with polite words either before or after his character assassination occurs. It is enough to make one suspicious sometimes. Thank you Mark for touching on that aspect in the documentary.

Hello my name is Justin Martell I am here to learn more about the assassination of John F Kennedy. I am 29 years old and have been interested in the case since I saw the movie JFK when I was a teenager. I really became hooked when I read the book Coincidence or Conspiracy by Bernard Fensterwald about 6 years ago. I have since read a number of books on the assassination: Heritage Of Stone, High Treason, The Last Investigation, The Man Who Knew Too Much, parts of Oswald and the CIA and Best Evidence. I have also visited numerous websites, this one being by far the best. I am from Sacramento California, during the week I am a bricklayer and on the Friday and Saturday nights I am a drug and alcohol counselor so I dont have much time to research but I learn more and more every day that I visit this great forum.