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Vanessa Loney

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  1. David, stick to the new evidence. It cancels out all that old 'evidence'.
  2. David, it would make sense if even one or two people on the steps said they saw a stranger. Although out of 13 people on the steps (who were all employed in the building) I would actually expect more than that to ID a stranger standing right in the doorway as they are re-entering the building. But for none of them to see him? As Andrej has pointed out so well this stranger, who none of them saw, just happens to be identified by Marina as Lee and has the same height, weight, hair and clothes as Lee. How can it not be Lee?
  3. David, 13 TSBD employees are on the steps and they manage to identify who is standing behind them, in front and beside them. But they all fail to identify one person, the same person. And they don't even say there was a stranger there. Not one. Even though he is clearly visible standing right next to the door they need to open to get back into the building. And no-one saw this stranger even though the FBI asked them if they saw any strangers that day.
  4. Absolutely awesome work Barto and Ed. Kudos to you both.
  5. David, there's a reason the authorities get the next of kin to identify a body. It's because they know the person best and can identify them even when others can't.
  6. Thanks Steve. I take your point about Kaminsky. So Jarman was wrong when he said it was the same police officer who stopped him and Oswald. Jarman was stopped by Barnett and Oswald possibly by Kaminsky. Although I note that Holmes doesn't mention that Truly was identifying employees so that part at least doesn't gell. Lovelady says that after leaving the steps he re-entered the building through a back entrance and waited around on the first floor for 30 minutes before going up to the 6th floor with the DPD. He doesn't mention returning to the steps. Mr. BALL - Did you see any other people on the first floor? Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, yes; by that time there were more; a few of the guys had come in. Mr. BALL - And you stayed on the first floor then? Mr. LOVELADY - I would say 30 minutes. And one of the policemen asked me would I take them up on the sixth floor. Mr. BALL - Did you take them up there? Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; I sure did. So has Jarman simply conflated his story with what Lovelady told him and confused the times? The only issue here that gives me pause is that Jarman says that Lovelady was on the steps when the incident with the police officer and Oswald occurred. The only time Lovelady was on the steps, according to him, was before the shooting.
  7. With all due respect Francois, you are a numpty. David, what do you have to say about Frazier?
  8. And here's the rest of Brennan's testimony. Nothing about going into the building. The CHAIRMAN. May I ask there. By the second floor from the top, do you mean the one directly underneath the top floor? Mr. BRENNAN. Underneath the top floor, excluding the roof, yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. And then what happened, sir? Mr. BRENNAN. He said, "just a minute." And he had to give some orders or something on the east side of the building on Houston Street. And then he had taken me to, I believe, Mr. Sorrels, an automobile sitting in front of the Texas Book Store. Mr. BELIN. And then what happened there? Mr. BRENNAN. I related my information and there was a few minutes of discussion, and Mr. Sorrels had taken me then across the street to the sheriff's building. Mr. BELIN. Did you describe the man that you saw in the window? Mr. BRENNAN. Yes; I believe I did. Mr. BELIN. Mr. Brennan, later that afternoon, or the next day, did you have occasion to go down to the Dallas Police Station to try to identify any person? Mr. BRENNAN. That evening, the Secret Service picked me up, Mr. Patterson, believe, at 6 o'clock, at my home, and taken me to the Dallas Police Station. Brennan then went downtown where he failed to identify Oswald in a line up btw.
  9. Are you answering for David now, Francois? My question is for David and I would like to hear his response. Frankly, I think Frazier's words speak for themselves.
  10. Thanks Sandy, I agree that's the crux of the issue. A key issue here is the 'policeman' involved. The policeman who stopped Jarman was Officer Barnett. I don't think any of this behaviour describes anything Officer Baker says he did that day. Baker heard the shots and ran straight into the building. Officer Barnett didn't even go into the building. Jarman clearly says Lovelady said the Officer was on his way into the building when he encountered Oswald. That does describe Baker but not Barnett. Here's the Officer's statement This officer was W. E. Barnett of the Dallas Police Department. In a deposition to the Warren Commission on July 23, 1964 he stated…”about that time a construction worker ran from the southwest corner of the intersection (Elm and Houston) up to me and said, “I was standing over there and saw the man in the window with the rifle.” He and I and the sergeant (Howard) all three broke and ran for the door (of the School Book Depository building). I kept the man there with me. The Sergeant ran to the back to make sure it was covered. I kept the man there until they took him across the street to the courthouse…”…..Q. How long do you think it was from the time the last shot was until the time you were at the front door…A. It was around 2½ minutes.” Here's Brennan's testimony. Mr. BELIN. By the west side of the building, you mean towards the underpass or railroad tracks? Mr. BRENNAN. Yes. Mr. BELIN. After you saw that, what did you do? Mr. BRENNAN. I knew I had to get to someone quick to tell them where the man was. So I ran or I walked--there is a possibility I ran, because I have a habit of, when something has to be done in a hurry, I run. And there was one officer standing at the corner of the Texas Book Store on the street. It didn't seem to me he was going in any direction. He was standing still. Mr. BELIN. What did you do or what did you say to him? Mr. BRENNAN. I asked him to get me someone in charge, a Secret Service man or an FBI. That it appeared to me that they were searching in the wrong direction for the man that did the shooting. And he was definitely in the building on the sixth floor. Here's Jarman's testimony Mr. BALL - Did you ever see a fellow named Brennan? Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir. Mr. BALL - Where did you see him first? Mr. JARMAN - He was talking to a police officer. Mr. BALL - How was he dressed? Mr. JARMAN - He was dressed in construction clothes. Mr. BALL - Anything else, any other way to describe him? Mr. JARMAN - Well, he had on a silverlike helmet. Mr. BALL - Hard-hat? Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir. Mr. BALL - Did you stay out there very long? Mr. JARMAN - Just a few minutes. Mr. BALL - Then where did you go? Mr. JARMAN - We heard him talking to this officer about that he had heard these shots and he had seen the barrel of the gun sticking out the window, and he said that the shots came from inside the building, and I told the officer that I believed that they came from inside the building also, and then he rushed us back inside. Mr. BALL - The officer did? Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
  11. Nice misdirection there David. We are not talking about Clemons we are talking about Frazier who is a key witness. Your side has stated that that the fact the Frazier won't identify PM is evidence that PM wasn't Oswald. The PM side say that quite possibly witnesses, including Frazier, were intimidated. Frazier says his family were threatened. And you do a quick sidestep. What is your actual response to Frazier's claims? Was he lying?
  12. David, here you can hear Buell Frazier say he kept quiet out of fear of what could happen to his family. He says it right at the end of the interview IIRC. https://jfkfacts.org/c-span-to-air-telling-story-from-oswalds-co-worker/#more-6018
  13. Thanks guys but no. Jarman is saying Lovelady told him about the incident after he Jarman came outside. Lovelady told Jarman that Oswald was stopped by the policeman at the front door as he was on his way in. This has to be referring to Baker coming in the front door of the building right after the assassination. Jarman was stopped by another officer and ordered back in to the building after the shooting. As some time after this Lovelady told him about Oswald.
  14. I think Junior Jarman should be added to the 2-4 sources who say Oswald was outside. In Junior Jarman's HSCA interview he said Billy Lovelady told him that Oswald was outside. What's significant about this is that even if Jarman was 'lying' or 'wrong' or just 'confused' the fact that he identified Lovelady as the source gives the statement credibility. Because we know with certainty that Lovelady was on the steps and was in a position to see PM/Oswald. If Jarman had mentioned as the source someone who wasn't on the steps then the claim wouldn't be so credible.
  15. Frazier also told the Sixth Floor Museum in an interview that his family was threatened and that he didn't mind for his own sake but it did matter when his family was threatened.
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