Kenneth Drew

Do you believe the SS was culpable in JFK's murder? I do

Only "some merit...so to speak", Vince? Come now, my good man. You can surely do better than "some merit...so to speak", can't you? Or does a book which has at its core a theory that only deserves "some merit" usually qualify for a Pulitzer Prize, which is an honor you said Doug Horne's five-volume tome was worthy of in 2009?.... Quoting Vince P.: "Douglas P. Horne, the author of this latest masterpiece, "Inside The Assassination Records Review Board," has achieved a literary feat worthy of a Pulitzer Prize. .... I recently admonished people in the research community (of which I am one) to, quote, "get a life" (shades of William Shatner, huh?). Well, disregard that bit of advice: instead, GET DOUGLAS P. HORNE'S BOOKS...NOW! 5 PLUS STARS; THE HIGHEST RATING HUMANLY POSSIBLE." -- Vincent Palamara; December 16, 2009 Amazon.com/review/R23U3HRSNOQ2X3 --------------------------------- "Vince Palamara almost certainly now DOES think the body was altered. And that's because Vince P. thinks Doug Horne's book is worthy of a "Pulitzer Prize". And, guess what, Doug Horne firmly believes that JFK's body was altered before the autopsy. So, surely, Palamara must now believe the body was altered as well. .... But Doug Horne has a way of SEEMING to be "reasonable" when he tells his fantastic and utterly insane tales. And apparently Horne has been able to suck Mr. Palamara into his vacuum of silliness. And that's a shame, but it's not totally unexpected, given Palamara's track record on flip-flops, with Vincent's five-star review for Jim Douglass' 2008 book being a prime example of Palamara not knowing which direction to turn regarding the JFK murder case. The review linked above, btw, was written by Mr. Palamara almost a full year AFTER he had gone on record endorsing Vince Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History" as the book that delivered a "devastating knock-out blow" to all conspiracies connected with the Kennedy assassination; which, of course, would INCLUDE Doug Horne's theories about Z-Film alteration, "two brains", and body-altering surgery, because Horne's theories about these things certainly didn't just rise from the ashes in the last few days or weeks. Horne has touted such nonsense for YEARS, with Bugliosi even tackling Horne's theories in "Reclaiming History"." -- David Von Pein; December 17, 2009 JFK-Archives.blogspot.com / Search Results For "Vincent Palamara" Yes, but DVP Vince is free to believe what he chooses. Some are not free to believe what they choose

The James Bond character is pure fiction. really, they've made several movies about his exploits and now we learn that they are just movies. hmmmm

and he doesn't even address the fact that in the pictures (depending on print quality) you can actually see the grass and plant limbs through Oswalds image (meaning the body and been inserted onto an existing print)

Exactly, Bob. Farid has taken the original photo and worked on that instead of correcting the perspective. This the photo he worked on. (Note the perspective of the posts at the rear of Oswald.) This is the model he made from that photo. Compare that to this corrected perspective photo. Let us see Farid try his software on the lower photo. wonder why that shadow under his nose is not in the same direction as his body shadow? Did he address that somewhere that I missed?

That says it very well. His posture is certainly enough, but there are so many other things that say it is fake. Let me see. The US Gov wants us to buy the lone nut story, this is a US Gov study that confirms their story. I'm amazed.

"Dr. Burkley [the President's physician] told me it's a simple matter of a bullet right through the head." -- Malcolm Kilduff Sounds like he's describing what we all saw.

I'm not a physician but I can tell you the cause of JFK's death was a gunshot to the head. That's my opinion also.

Well, Larry, by now I'm fairly well-known for typing "IMHO" multiple times in every post. It means, "In My Humble Opinion." I am surmising based on FBI documents. For example, we have an FBI document of 11/22/1963 that records Hoovers telephone calls that day. On or about 3pm CST, Hoover called RFK and told him that Lee Harvey Oswald was not an FPCC leader and not a Communist. That happens to be a historical fact. We further have FBI reports indicating that reports about Lee Harvey Oswald from Dallas Texas said that Oswald was: (1) a leader of the FPCC; and (2) a Communist. That is another historical fact. (And no, I don't have my resources with me at present, so I'll allow others to identify those FBI documents. Many of us know they exist.) Here is the summary of these historical facts. (1) Hoover is being told at 2pm CST that Oswald is an FPCC Communist; and (2) Hoover concludes by 3pm CST that Oswald is the opposite. IMHO this is an important historical event -- and I'm surprised that in the past half-century, I'm the only one that I know of who has pointed it out consistently. Now, here is my surmise. The only possible way that Hoover could have known that the information he was getting from Dallas Texas (from officials there) was back-assward, is because Hoover had a big fat file on Lee Harvey Oswald. Hoover was also close enough to Guy Banister in New Orleans to know very, very well, that the FPCC in New Orleans was a Fake Branch. Hoover and his FBI knew it was Fake with total certainty. There was no question or doubt. So, right away, Hoover knew that Lee Harvey Oswald could not be a leader in the FPCC there in New Orleans, where these TV, radio and newspaper reports had been produced to prove Oswald's "Red" credentials (courtesy Guy Banister and Edwin Walker). Furthermore, Hoover knew the FPCC well enough so that he knew the names and addresses of every leader of every FPCC branch. I have no doubt. FURTHERMORE, Hoover knew the names and addresses of every Card-Carrying Communist in the USA, and he was absolutely certain that Lee Harvey Oswald was NOT ON HIS LIST. Therefore, J. Edgar Hoover --- I surmise from the historical facts -- figured out within one single hour on 11/22/1963, that Lee Harvey Oswald had been set-up as a PATSY for the Radical-Right Wing Conspiracy to murder JFK, so that the FPCC Communists would take the blame. It was as obvious to Hoover at 3pm CST 11/22/1963 as it is obvious to the reader today. When the Walker-did-it theory is taken to its full fruition, I believe that these facts and surmises will become apparent to all. Regards, --Paul Trejo Therefore, J. Edgar Hoover --- I surmise from the historical facts -- figured out within one single hour on 11/22/1963, that Lee Harvey Oswald had been set-up as a PATSY I certainly have no problem believing that much.

Well, Kenneth, I feel I'm failing to make my point with you. Walker did not have Hoover working in his interest -- nor did Walker foresee that. If there was any "luck", it was simply the "luck" that Hoover chose to Cover-up the Truth about the Right-wing plot to kill JFK -- and thus hide the fact that Walker was the mastermind. But that was not a good outcome for the resigned General Walker. Walker would not have objected to being named as the JFK Killer -- if and only if Walker had actually attained his goal -- which was the invasion of Cuba. Like all other US Presidential Assassins, Edwin Walker wanted his political cause to be shouted to the world. But killing JFK was not the main goal of killing JFK in Walker's plot -- rather, the invasion of Cuba was the only successful outcome that Walker would accept. J. Edgar Hoover actually foiled Walker's plot to "invade-Cuba-by-killing-JFK" by using Hoover's own invention of the "Lone Nut" theory of Lee Harvey Oswald. Edwin Walker had worked for six solid months -- along with Guy Banister in NOLA -- to portray Lee Harvey Oswald as an FPCC Communist. It was hard work. He even got some CIA Rogues in Mexico City to IMPERSONATE Lee Harvey Oswald in a telephone call from the Cuban Consulate to the USSR Embassy, asking for KGB assassination expert Valerie Kostikov. Walker's plan was extremely elaborate. When Oswald was arrested in Dallas at about 2pm CST, the messages went forth from Dallas to the FBI that Oswald as an FPCC Communist. This proves that the resigned General Edwin Walker had many accomplices inside Dallas, including officials in high places. But J. Edgar Hoover was sharp enough to figure it all out in one single hour. By 3pm CST Hoover telephoned RFK to announced that Lee Harvey Oswald was not an FPCC leader and not a Communist. This proves that Hoover figured out Walker's plot very quickly. Hoover realized that Walker's gang wanted to blame Castro and invade Cuba. Therefore, with Hoover's Lone Nut theory, the plot of General Walker was foiled. Walker was hopping mad. Walker would have happily gone to prison and face court-martial, if only Cuba had been invaded and Fidel Castro killed. That would have been the honorable outcome in his Radical Right-wing opinion. Walker was miserable that Hoover kept his political plot from the American people! Regards, --Paul Trejo Well, Kenneth, I feel I'm failing to make my point with you. Walker did not have Hoover working in his interest -- nor did Walker foresee that. I'll concede I drifted off in that direction, but I thought I recovered by the end of my comment. And yes, I can see how that would frustrate Walker. I see nothing wrong with your overall hypothesis, especially the part where, since the coverup was hatched so quickly, I can see where a heck of a lot of parts didn 't fit and have had to have modifications and caused a lot of attempted re arranging of the evidence to make it fit. Paul, this conspiracy theory certainly fits better than many I've heard. So I'll keep an open mind.

Hey Ken. I knew what the inference was and I understood Tom was frustrated. I've been on this forum since shortly after it's inception but I haven't been tempted to block anyone's comments yet. I want to hear everyones opinion, right, left, wrong, crazy and certifiable. I just won't sit with my back to the door. Chris, Sorry to get you involved in this. I never dreamed anyone would be so small as to give you grief over answering my question... I SHOULD have known better. Yesterday, I felt the same way about listening that you do...today, I can't be bothered with someone who only transmits, but will not receive... Tom Well, I thought the purpose was to ignore me, but seems as if he can't refrain.

Hey Ken. I knew what the inference was and I understood Tom was frustrated. I've been on this forum since shortly after it's inception but I haven't been tempted to block anyone's comments yet. I want to hear everyones opinion, right, left, wrong, crazy and certifiable. I just won't sit with my back to the door. Thanks Chris. I try to respect that others have different opinions on some things than what I have and everyone is certainly entitled to that. Even though I am prone to disagree at times, it is usually a futile effort to 'prove' someone is 'wrong' on their opinion. If I get tired of the person or subject, I just don't respond.

The only people who could have taken the body out were SS and LBJ and his staff. I think both Lifton and Horne suggest the body went down to the baggage hold. I don't know if it's suggested it was transferred to a coffin at that time or later. In theory, it could have made the trip in a body bag. I don't see how Hoover or Walker could have any influence on this undertaking. You are correct Chris, certainly the gray coffin could have been waiting in Washington. In fact, since I've heard that the body was in the gray coffin, in a body bag, it is very likely that it did make the trip in the bag.

Chris, thanks for telling Tom how to do that. I would have told him had he asked. I'm glad he won't have to be concerned with my comments any longer.

Good points, Kenneth, but there are alternatives. All J. Edgar Hoover had to tell his FBI men was that "there can only be one Lone Gunman, and no other scenario is acceptable." At that point, the FBI Agents were obedient, well-trained, and could make things go right. The same applies to the Military and SS personnel, under orders from the Pentagon and LBJ, who approved of Hoover's "Lone Nut" strategy shortly after 3pm CST. (This is the timestamp on the FBI memo of Hoover's phone call to RFK, telling RFK that Lee Harvey Oswald was certainly not a Communist and certainly not an FPCC leader -- the very opposite of the reports coming out of Dallas.) The message of Hoover's plan to LBJ was possibly delivered by McGeorge Bundy. In any case, by 4pm CST all senior FBI, SS, CIA, Mil-Intel, Army, Navy and US Government officials, extending all the way to Bethesda Naval Hospital in Washington DC, were already organizing to fulfill these Presidential Orders in the interest of National Security. J. Edgar Hoover didn't have to be a "mastermind" at the tactical level -- only at the strategic level -- only in establishing the "Lone Nut" cover-up. After that, everybody chipped in with what was at hand -- including extra coffins, body bags -- everything. Again -- the resigned General Edwin Walker had no clue about Hoover's Cover-up, and actually Walker opposed Hoover's Cover-up all through 1964. Hoover insisted on a "Lone Nut" Oswald. Walker insisted on an "FPCC Communist" Oswald. See the difference? Walker wanted an immediate war with Cuba, based on his phony cover-story. Hoover wanted to squelch Walker's cover-story, so he created his own. IMHO, the resigned General Walker had six months to plan the JFK murder, so it went very well. J. Edgar Hoover had only one hour to formulate the "Lone Nut" cover-up, so it was full of holes. Regards, --Paul Trejo Certainly possible. LBJ sworn in at 2:38 AF One departed at 2:47 with a gray spare coffin already on board for the body transfer which occurred during the swearing in ceremony. Hoover sure was perceptive to get that coffin there and make that switch before the take off. Do you see that it was Hoover that actually planned that move and ordered the spare coffin on board? I can't figure out how he knew what surgical alterations were going to be necessary prior to the body even arriving in DC, but to send it to two different autopsy rooms within just a couple of hours of each other took some fantastic planning. Just think of how he ordered the copies of the Zapruder sent to the different CIA labs for their modifications and exactly how he knew what alterations the copies needed to make them fit with his story. I have never heard that Hoover was particularly brilliant, but he must have been darn sharp. Walker is sure lucky to have had Hoover working in his interest. I don't know how he could have foreseen that. Paul, I apologize if I was a little repetitive in this comment, just trying to grasp your theory on how Hoover could successfully cover their tracks. Certainly anything is possible and we sure don't know all the answers. Some of your theories on how it could have come down are certainly something to think about. Kenneth

Check with Douglas, he brought it up in comment #7

Every claim you make above about Bush is DEAD wrong. I have refuted your every claim. You obviously know NOTHING about this subject, yet you repeat ALL this horse manure that you "KNOW" is "RIGHT", and you accuse me of BEATING A DEAD HORSE? Mr. Drew, As usual, you don't even READ the posts you respond to, so it is POINTLESS to continue this OT. Rest assured I will never again waste my time replying to anything you post. You will NO DOUBT take this as a victory... Enjoy life inside your BUBBLE... Sorry you're so bitter that your side lost. If you were interested in the truth about GWB you would have read by now. Dan Rather sued CBS for 70 milion bucks to try to prove he was right and GWB was not. You have heard how that lawsuit turned out, haven't you? And I don't mind it when sore losers tell me they're not going to respond. Some people can't take defeat. Sound familiar? Good bye.

I find it strange that someone who hangs out on THIS forum doesn't realize Rather was fired by the PTB, for telling the truth about W. They didn't let him - they grounded him. He had so much difficulty landing his F-102, he was given a check ride which he failed. He was put back in trainer aircraft and was only allowed to fly with an instructor - that made him a student, again. He was then grounded when he refused to take the annual flight physical. I wonder why he refused?Tom "I find it strange that someone who hangs out on THIS forum doesn't realize Rather was fired by the PTB, for telling the truth about W" Whoa.....do I hear some sour grapes? You'll have to let me in on what/who PTB is, guess I haven't hung around here enough to know that. I see no reason for your voluntarily choosing to beat a dead horse. You know, I know and the rest of the civilized world knows that the Star of the Universe, Dan "lying" Rather thought he could get Bush defeated by passing out a huge lie. He thought his 'stature' would win him votes. He gambled, he lost. He's now a footnote in history while GWB is an ex US President. I'm not a liberal so I have no sympathy for the lying lame Main Stream Media of which Dan was a darling. I'm pretty sure you can not provide any links to any verified factual data for the 'extravagant' lies you are attempting to pass off. I think that door of history has been opened and closed and the lefties lost. I do not claim to be an expert on the details of Bush's service, but I do know he completed flight training and was a fighter pilot of a type plane that they stopped using in Vietnam during the period that he was training in it. You very well know that the record is clear that he volunteered for service in Viet Nam and since members of his unit were being regularly assigned there (provided they had fulfilled flight time reqmts, etc) that there was a liklihood that when he met the qualifications he would be assigned there also. during his training, his type aircraft was no longer being sent to Viet nam. He served almost a full 6 year enlistment. Every claim you make above about Bush is DEAD wrong. I have refuted your every claim. You obviously know NOTHING about this subject, yet you repeat ALL this horse manure that you "KNOW" is "RIGHT", and you accuse me of BEATING A DEAD HORSE? Tom You haven't refuted anything, are you having an illusion? The papers that were 'fake but accurate' that cost Danny his job can't be used as verification for your story.

Please provide a link from a non-conservative site that proves the above. 1. GW Bush was NEVER a Qualified Fighter pilot. He qualified to solo the F-102 for a BRIEF time. He was GROUNDED before he received ANY combat training, such as gunnery, etc. etc. which is to say that he wasn't "Qualified" to DO anything with his aircraft, except to burn fuel... 2. Bush did NOT serve for 6 years. Following his grounding, he was assigned a desk job to complete his MANDATORY time, but instead went AWOL. 3. He did NOT volunteer to serve "overseas" -- this precludes service in Vietnam. See his TANG papers for confirmation. I notice you provide no source of your info while 'demanding' it from me. Your side lost. Get over it.

At NO time did Bush request duty in Vietnam. There is a box on the TANG form that asks if you are willing to serve "Overseas" - Bush checked "No." Tom Tom, you're getting confused. you say " There is a box on the TANG form that asks if you are willing to serve "Overseas" - Bush checked "No." and just above you had said "(the box for serving overseas was NOT checked), It can't be 'checked' but 'not checked'. So you're saying he only filled out that form one time in the 6 years he served. I don't know what your axe to grind with Bush is, but you are obviously confused and should attempt to get your story straight.

I find it strange that someone who hangs out on THIS forum doesn't realize Rather was fired by the PTB, for telling the truth about W. They didn't let him - they grounded him. He had so much difficulty landing his F-102, he was given a check ride which he failed. He was put back in trainer aircraft and was only allowed to fly with an instructor - that made him a student, again. He was then grounded when he refused to take the annual flight physical. I wonder why he refused?Tom "I find it strange that someone who hangs out on THIS forum doesn't realize Rather was fired by the PTB, for telling the truth about W" Whoa.....do I hear some sour grapes? You'll have to let me in on what/who PTB is, guess I haven't hung around here enough to know that. I see no reason for your voluntarily choosing to beat a dead horse. You know, I know and the rest of the civilized world knows that the Star of the Universe, Dan "lying" Rather thought he could get Bush defeated by passing out a huge lie. He thought his 'stature' would win him votes. He gambled, he lost. He's now a footnote in history while GWB is an ex US President. I'm not a liberal so I have no sympathy for the lying lame Main Stream Media of which Dan was a darling. I'm pretty sure you can not provide any links to any verified factual data for the 'extravagant' lies you are attempting to pass off. I think that door of history has been opened and closed and the lefties lost. I do not claim to be an expert on the details of Bush's service, but I do know he completed flight training and was a fighter pilot of a type plane that they stopped using in Vietnam during the period that he was training in it. You very well know that the record is clear that he volunteered for service in Viet Nam and since members of his unit were being regularly assigned there (provided they had fulfilled flight time reqmts, etc) that there was a liklihood that when he met the qualifications he would be assigned there also. during his training, his type aircraft was no longer being sent to Viet nam. He served almost a full 6 year enlistment.

Thanks Ken. I have a good friend who served with me in the eighties. He was a senior NCO in one of our recent conflicts. He tried to take his own life one weekend and was eventually discharged. His DD-214 lists his discharge as "other than honorable" despite his nearly 30 years of service. My son served in Iraq for 18 months, he wasn't in combat arms but he came back and ETS and his DD-214 says he served "honorably". I mention both these men because nothing is as black and white as you want to make it. My friend that bears the scars of war is one of the most honorable men I know. Next time I see him I'll ask what he thinks about the Kerry/Bush flap you bring up. it's really strange for the military to allow someone to serve for 30 years in an 'other than honorable' situation. You'd think they would cut him off sooner unless what he did was at the end of his service. I don't know the procedures but didn't he get some paperwork during his service, especially upon re enlistment indicating he was serving honorably? "because nothing is as black and white as you want to make it." I'm not all that sure that I've tried to make it black and white. For example, in the Bergdahl deal, it's the people that served with him that have said what his service was. I have no reason to disbelieve them or the opposite. If I had to be on a jury, I'd sure want to hear all the pertinent facts. "about the Kerry/Bush flap you bring up." I think if you go back up the thread, you'll find I didn't bring up the Kerry/Bush flap. I only commented on someone else's statement. My wife had a first cousin, in 1960, received a 'general' discharge because he revealed that he was gay. I have no sympathy for him on that because he knew the rules going in and he did not have to 'voluntarily' say he was gay. It was his decision to get out by that method.

Please define "honorably" for me. Received an honorable discharge and did nothing to bring dishonor to his country.

I will not say anything negative about anyone's military service that served honorably and as I understand it that includes Kerry. My problem is with his activities in opposition to the US and the US military after he completed his active service. Especially the lies he told about his service. Apparently he had no problem denigrating fellow military that served in Viet Nam, them having acted as if they were Ghengis Khan. The real problem is his clear treason in Paris in 1970.

Yeah, the ones I hang out with. I think you'll find out one day that bright bulbs were around a long time before millennials were thought of. You don't get out much, do you? Most days. You're trying to make a point?