Greg Wagner

Hi Michael. I agree that presidential security in 1963 compared to today is apples and oranges. The striking differences between Kennedy's protection in Dallas and that three days earlier in Tampa, however, are easily provable. I don't want to regurgitate all the points Vince has laid out here, on his website, on YouTube and in his published works about this, but I don't see what is speculative about it. It is day and night. Though I totally disagree with much of the Hartmann/Waldron book, even they got that part right.

I think it’s pretty hard to argue that Kennedy’s protection in Dallas was not compromised. In my opinion, the striking differences between Tampa on the 18th and Dallas on the 22nd are simply not explainable in any other way that makes sense. We can go back and forth all day about the absurd route down Elm Street, the motorcycles being reduced, agents on and off the car, the bubbletop, Rybka, rooftops, windows, overpasses, brake lights, Thomas Shipman, partying the night before, the dearth of local law enforcement and MI personnel supplementing the Secret Service, the complete and total lack of security at the exact point in the route where Kennedy is most exposed and all the rest. Probably not all of these glaring deficiencies are nefarious, but if anyone thinks they were ALL just a bunch of crazy coincidences, then we will have to agree to disagree. In my view, Vince and others have moved the ball far enough down the field that we are beyond endlessly debating all this. The real questions we should be asking about the Secret Service at this point are: 1. Were any members of the Secret Service witting participants in the assassination? If so, who? Boring, Roberts and Lawson are intriguing candidates, but who would have approached them? That would have been awfully dangerous. And why would they go along with it? 2. If there was no witting participation by members of the Secret Service and Kennedy's security was compromised by a more subtle and sophisticated effort, then who was handled by whom? Where was the connection between the plotters and the Dallas trip planners / Secret Service? This would have been at a high level, with orders rolling down hill from there. My opinion is that the perpetrators had one goal in Dallas and that was to kill Kennedy. Everything else was on the “not essential but nice to have” list. Getting the motorcade to come down Elm Street, chipping away at JFK’s protection any way they could think of and even executing the Oswald patsy angle were certainly elements of the operation. But none of them were show stoppers.

Just to add a bit more to the military intelligence presence in Dealey Plaza that day, I give you David Aubrey Sooy. Sooy was a career Naval officer and probably ONI. He was commander of the Naval Air Station in Dallas for a few years in the late 50's and when JFK was shot, Sooy was sitting in his car waiting for the motorcade to pass the TSBD. Sooy and his location/presence Dealey Plaza is a matter that has been discussed here before https://goo.gl/TVs7iM Sooy knew Frank Krystinik (Krystinik and Sooy below; thanks to James Richards). Prior to the assassination, Krystinik met Oswald through Michael Paine. Just another one of those amazing coincidences.

Hi Jim. You mean James Powell? I doubt he knew what was about to happen. Somebody did, though. The interesting question is who put him in Dealey Plaza with a camera that day. Does anyone have a photo of James Powell? https://goo.gl/6e23Fd Along those lines and even more interesting is Stuart Reed. The guy worked as an executive for the Canal Zone Civilian Personnel Policy Coordinating Board in Panama. He ends up in Dallas on 11/22/63, takes photos in and around Dealey Plaza, including McWatters' bus around the time Oswald would have been on it, AND THEN happens to be at the Texas Theatre to photograph Oswald being arrested. He drops off his film to be developed in Dallas and on 11/26 he signs an authorization allowing the FBI to pick up his developed photos as he leaves for New Orleans to catch a boat back to Panama. Seems legit. <sarcasm.jpg> I think it's reasonable to consider that Reed may have been handled by the same person who put James Powell in Dealey Plaza. Any connections Reed may have had to Army Intelligence would be of great interest. https://goo.gl/NLk641 By the way, Winston Lawson was Army CIC from 1953-55. At least, those are the years his Army Intel service is documented. Lawson was at Fort Holabird at the same time Richard Case Nagell was there. Probably a coincidence, that whole thing. But Army Intelligence seems to pop up everywhere. Back to the topic at hand. The security in Tampa vs the shooting gallery that was Dealey Plaza only 3 days later is, in my opinion, the strongest evidence for an inside man or men around the Dallas trip/motorcade. Consider the Tampa trip security that Vince has documented. Now look at the windows, overpasses and rooftops throughout the Craven film in Dallas https://goo.gl/XnmgXL, along with the many other films and photos documenting such. There are people crawling all over the place and it was a much shorter drive in what was expected to be a potentially hostile environment. Had local law enforcement and MI units been fully utilized as on other trips, manpower would not have been an issue. Not to mention the route selection, Lawson managing the motorcycles at Love field and the Rybka incident. It really starts to add up, doesn't it? In my opinion, the professionals involved in the Dallas op were going to kill Kennedy with or without compromised protection. Contingencies were in place to get him in Dallas regardless of how the security ultimately unfolded. My guess is - and this is total speculation - there was a link somewhere high up the food chain between someone like Morales or Phillips and someone with enough juice to pull the right levers around the Texas trip planning. It could have been sold to them as Kennedy wanting to be more visible in Dallas to afford favorable photo opportunities or whatever. I'm not so sure about witting participation by members of the Secret Service, though. Opening the kimono and stating, "Hey, we are planning to kill JFK in Dallas and we want your help" would have been a significant risk. Jim and Vince, thanks for your many valuable, thought-provoking posts. Always a treat

Seconded, Larry. Evidence of a relationship between Morales and de Torres would be significant.

That is amazing

Perhaps Tippit also operated his daily life out of 3 separate wallets. Seems legit. 😂😂😂

Jim Harwood, It should be pointed out that Mr. Richards, the initiator of this thread, has spoken with several members of the Diaz family regarding Herminio Diaz Garcia and the assassination. A search of this forum or some of the Facebook groups related to the assassination may be in order if this is news to anyone. James' primary research and contributions to this case are considerable. I would suggest that anyone here not familiar with what he has freely offered over the course of many years do a little digging.

Thanks for that, David.

Hi Steve. Several people who had a good look at it described what they saw as a bullet hole in the windshield. Going from memory here, but I seem to recall one of them even describing the edges of the hole as smooth on the outside of the windshield and chipped on the inside, indicating a shot from the front: o Stavis Ellis, DPD o HR Freeman, DPD o Dr Evalea Glanges o Charles Taylor Jr, Secret Service o Richard Dudman, St Louis Dispatch o Frank Cormier, St Louis Dispatch o George Whitaker, Ford o NIck Prencipe, US Parks Police

Nice work, David. Thanks for posting that!

Hi Trygve. Yes, Dougherty's various statements are contradictory and a total mess. Thanks for providing a source for the TSBD lunch period... much appreciated! Cheers, Greg

Well done, Rick! I agree that the first photo looks about right.

Great photo, Rick. Thanks for posting that. I was never convinced of a gunman on the South Koll until I read Sherry's book a couple years ago. She makes a strong case for it and I now consider it a very real possibility.

I am certainly open to a legitimate entry wound in the throat, since I believe there were shooters positioned in front of Kennedy. But if Kennedy was shot in the throat and there was no damage to the spinal column, shouldn't there be a corresponding exit wound since we're just talking about a bullet traversing soft tissue? Could it have been merely fragment that splintered off from an initial impact elsewhere? It reminds me of the back wound, where the bullet seemed underpowered and barely penetrated.

In his 11/22/1963 DPD statement, Dougherty says that he went to lunch at 12:00 and went back to work at 12:45. Did he go back to work 15 minutes early? Does anyone know if TSBD employees got an hour for lunch or only 45 minutes? Thanks!

Can anyone point me toward the source document for Vidal being in Dallas for a few days beginning on November 6, 1963? Thanks!

Very interesting, Trygve. If you happen to locate that document, please post it. Thanks!

Apparently Tom Dillard gave a statement to the FBI on December 31, 1963. Does anyone have a copy or know where I might locate one? Thanks!

Hi Chuck. Thanks for the replies. I'm sorting through the various statements of witnesses who claim to have seen activity in the upper floor windows of the TSBD around the time of the shooting. Most of these people made multiple statements with varying degrees of detail. Some consistent, others not as much. As your earlier posts illustrates, who saw what in which window is all over the place. I've been able to identify the 17 people listed as witnessing activity in the upper floor windows of the TSBD around the time of the shooting. With the number of spectators in the area around Houston and Elm, I'm surprised there weren't more. Perhaps I've missed some. Or perhaps there were indeed more witnesses who saw activity up there but they never went on record.

I have compiled this list of people who claim to have witnessed activity in upper floor windows of the TSBD near the time of the assassination. Are there any others I may have missed? Thank you! Howard Brennan Richard Carr Malcom Couch James Crawford Tom Dillard Robert Edwards Amos Euins Ronald Fischer Ruby Henderson Robert Jackson John Powell Jeraldean Reid Arnold Rowland Barbara Rowland James Underwood Carolyn Walter James Worrell

Hi Steve... it would indeed.

Thanks for that, Jim. I have gone back and forth over the years on the possibility of Secret Service complicity in Dallas and the motorcade route is certainly part of that. But what I find even more curious is the comparison of security along the motorcade routes in Tampa on November 18th and Dallas on the 22nd. They are day and night. Vince interviewed TPD officer Russell Groover who described a closely spaced diamond of 7 units around JFK’s car and 23 others surrounding that formation. He also said every multi-story building along the motorcade had police or military stationed on every floor and the roofs. And although its conclusions are all wrong, I believe the Waldron/Hartmann book has some pretty good detail on the Tampa motorcade security that confirms it was indeed robust. Yet 3 days later in Dallas the motorcade security is almost non-existent. I also find it interesting that Winston Lawson was U.S. Army CIC in the mid 1950's, stationed at Fort Holabird, Maryland. Maybe there's nothing to that. But when I start listing Army Intelligence personnel in and around Dealey Plaza on November 22nd, it's another one of those amazing coincidences.

This article appears to be incomplete and I don't know its origin. Nevertheless, it contains some interesting information on Rip Robertson: Regarding Hal Feeney, he wrote a piece on the Bay of Pigs in 1988. The photo on page one shows him with Tony Izquierdo: http://bayofpigs2506.com/The night of the white horse.pdf