Dan Doyle

The way to crack this case is by DNA sampling. What I can't understand is why there isn't a stronger push for this. The John Armstrong " Harvey and Lee" thesis can put to bed one way or the other by comparing the genetic markers of Robert Oswald( or a blood relative of his) and the person killed by Jack Ruby on 11/24/63( or blood relatives; i.e., Marina's daughters). If the science is available recover the DNA of ancient Neanderthals and build the Neanderthal genome ( Svante Paabo), it should be a no brainer to resolve Armstrong's Harvey and Lee postulation by way of DNA. And this technological advance in genetics(DNA) is something that a Cover-Up couldn't have accounted for 54 years ago if in fact there were 2 ( or more?) persons using the identity of a certain "Lee Harvey Oswald".

Joe, Before the parade, Kennedy and Johnson had a big argument about who was going to ride in the limo with the President. Johnson wanted liberal Senator Ralph Yarborough and JFK wanted Governor Connally. Apparently their argument was so loud that it could be overheard in the next room. And as they say, the rest is history. What I find interesting in the Croft photo, besides the decent resolution, is that most of the JFK well-wishers on the sidewalk are African American....and what does that say about JFK and the Civil Rights Movement at the time??

Thanks the heads up on the Citizen Lane movie, Jim. Watched it in its entirety yesterday. I've read most, if not all of Mark Lane's books on the the JFK assassination and knew about his work with James Earl Ray and the MLK assassination but what was new to me was the fact that Lane, with Charles Geary and Congressman Leo Ryan, was in Jonestown in 1978 during the mass suicide/murder there. And what really struck me in this movie, was Mark Lane's revelation that Jim Jones was planning a mass defection of his Jonestown congregation to the USSR and then Lane suggests something more sinister was behind the mass suicide ("murder" in Lane's words).....like it was to deprive the USSR of a potential propaganda coup if 900 or more American citizens in mass rejected the USA in favor of the USSR. Remember this was in 1978 and the Cold War was very real.

Great thread. I think Nixon's organized crime ties have been overlooked by the MSM & their historians for far too long, which makes me wonder why so? If you're in the CT camp, the names of Nixon's organized crime ties reads like a who's who in the JFK case. According to below linked article, Carlos Marcello gave Nixon $500k in cash in September 1960 before the November election. Oswald' uncle Murret worked for Marcello (as a booky) as did Ferrie, Bannister and (supposedly) Ruby. Then there's Nixon's best buddy, Bebe Rebozo, a American-born Cuban with extensive ties to organized crime. And let's not forget that in 1959 Nixon was Eisenhower's point man for Operation Zapata(BOP). JFK's securing of the Presidency in 1960, was a big set back to this Operation. I can't imagine Nixon withholding air support, as JFK did, when the BOP invasion foundered. From this article I ran across, www.crimemagazine.com/mobs-president-richard-nixons-secret-ties-mafia, which is a great read: " In February 1955, Vice President Richard Nixon traveled to Havana to embrace Batista at the despot's lavish private palace, praise ''the competence and stability'' of his regime, award him a medal of honor, and compare him with Abraham Lincoln.' The Watergate Scandal seems to come into better focus when Nixon's mafia ties are factored in. My guess is that Nixon knew what went down on 11/22/63 by way of his Operation Zapata( Hunt, Sturgis,etc)- Organized Crime( Marcello, Hoffa, etc) connections and was using this knowledge to blackmail someone( the CIA, the Military?) and that someone gave the Watergate break-in legs, which it wouldn't have normally had. Didn't Nixon call it "a third rate burglary"?; right, a third rate burglary which cost him the Presidency. What about the parallels between Nixon and Trump, and both with extensive organized crime ties....scary stuff!

He's neutralizing the CIA. He knows if the documents being released damage the CIA it benefits him. They, and they specialize in regime change, can't take him out so easily

Casually watching Chris Mathews on MSNBC last night while I was making dinner, and had to do a double take on what he was saying about the JFK assassination....he's now actually open to alternatives to the official WC LN version. I've seen him talk about this before and he is usually solidly in the MSM echo chamber with the official "Oswald did it" version. So I'm wondering what could have changed his mind? http://www.msnbc.com/hardball

Is this science, "psychological sets", or wu-wu? I think the jury is out

Bit of a late comer to this thread, but having just watched a Morning Joe interview with Rob Reiner and Woody Harrelson about their new movie LBJ, I was struck by the irony that Woody Harrelson is in a movie that in part replays the JFK assassination. Woody is one the sons of convicted killer Charles Harrelson. Jim Marrs fingered Charles Harrelson as one of tramps caught near Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 . Charles Harrleson claimed, in 1980, when he was being arrested for assassinating a federal judge( the first time a federal judge had been killed in the 20th century), to have been one of the 3 shooters in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 . And to add to the irony here, Charles Harrelson, who was married numerous times, had a wife at one point with the maiden name of Diane Lou Oswald. Go figure that one? ......nu nu nu nu. I'm no big fan of LBJ. Although he did enact major domestic legislation, probably way more than JFK could have achieved, but his disastrous Vietnam policy is his rightful legacy. He mislead the American public over and over about the real nature of the Vietnam conflict, only to be exposed by the Tet Offensive of 1968....and later by the Pentagon Papers. As for suspicions of LBJ's involvement in JFK's killing, there's a lot of smoke there. If JFK hadn't met his maker in Dallas, LBJ would have surely been disgraced by the Bobby Baker/Billy Sol Estes scandal and off the ticket in '64. And I've read that RFK was orchestrating the whole thing. In fact, Life magazine had the LBJ Scandal scheduled to run as its headline issue in the first week in December 1963. JFK's demise upstaged all of that and the scandal never really got legs after 11/22/63 And let's not forget, LBJ and Hoover were neighbors in DC and long time good friends. Hmmm? Roger Stone, yes that Roger Stone, wrote a recent book fingering LBJ as the mastermind of 11/22/63. Do I think LBJ was behind 11/22/63...not really....but he sure had the cui bono.....like his political career.

Jim, Not to belabor the point, but your response is first time I've ever "heard" of the institutionalization of Oswald angle. Don't you think this would create timeline headache for the plotters( like when would this have happened?) when all they really needed was a professional diagnosis of Oswald as a whacko. And let's not forget Oswald's "suicide" attempt while in Russia; that has to count for something. I'm just as much as a Garrisonite as the next CTer, but I think that he misses the mark in the Clinton affair(no pun intended).

retracted

Jim, I guess one could say that the reason Oswald ended up in a Clinton was a collateral happenstance of his seeking employment in Jackson; that his "handlers" main purpose was to get LHO's personal info into the East Louisiana State Mental Hospital's personel files so it could be switched at a later date into the patient files by witting or unwitting "assets" of the conspirators at the hospital.....but I think that's a little bit of a stretch. I mean if "they" wanted to color Oswald as a whacko mental patient why go to all of trouble to drive 120 miles to Jackson/ Clinton area and publicly expose themselves as associates of the future "patsy" when "they" could have directed Oswald to a "asset" shrink in NOLA, with little or no public exposure; and then had the "asset" shrink do the coloring at a later date. The effect would have been the same. And Ferrie and Shaw would have not created such a blatant public association with Oswald. What are "agents" Ferrie and Shaw , a bunch of complete bunglers in Clinton who then plan/participate in the perfect hit in Dallas. No I don't think so. This whole Clinton affair flies in the face of a basic intelligence principle of limiting the exposure of the operation.

Jim, In the transcript of Bill Davy's presentation, the 14th paragraph begins with.... " "The committee found that the Clinton witnesses ... " This may require a little explanation. What they're talking about here is the town of Clinton, Louisiana, which is just outside of Baton Rouge. It was uncovered during the Garrison Investigation and the subsequent Shaw trial that Lee Harvey Oswald was seen in Clinton, Louisiana at a voter registration incident with not only David Ferrie but Clay Shaw as well." And he goes on about Clinton for a few more paragraphs. The point Davy is making is about the evidenced association of Oswald, Ferrie, and Shaw before 11/22/63 by way of the Clinton witnesses. This was omitted in the WR, but confirmed by HSCA. My point is about his omission( and others) to give purpose to the Clinton episode beyond that of evidencing the association of Oswald, Ferrie and Shaw; i.e., how does the Clinton episode fit into the larger plot of the conspirators or is it just some anomalous event.

Agreed, this is interesting stuff, but he doesn't give his thoughts on the larger enigma of the Clinton episode. The Clinton, La. episode where LHO stands in a voter registration line for hours on end, the only white, or 1 of 2 whites, in a long line of blacks, has to have more significance than just proving an association between LHO, Ferrie, and Clay Shaw. I mean why the heck did they drive 3 hours out of town into the heart of Klan territory, to have LHO stand in line for hours on end, while Ferrie and Shaw hung out in the background? Didn't they have anything better to do? As far as I can surmise, there are 3 possible explanations that purport to give a larger context to the Clinton excursion: 1, the MKULTRA angle, with Ferrie testing LHO; 2, the Louisiana Communist Control Act, Right Wing angle, with LHO phishing for names to bolster Bannister's files on (supposed) subversives( like the files in the Paine's house?) ; and 3, the East Louisiana State Mental Hospital angle, with LHO being colored as a Left Wing head case. Of course, this is not to suggest that any one explanation would necessarily exclude any other of the others. It could have been the perfect trifecta solution, where Ferrie was to test his hypnotic powers, where Bannister was to get more names for his files, and where Clay Shaw( of the CIA) was to enhance the Lone Nut legend (via the Mental Hospital).

The real loss here is that the MSM is going to promote this work as the definitive documentary on Vietnam. In five years it's canon.

thanks

Great review http://fair.org/home/ken-burns-vietnam-war-an-object-lesson-in-the-failures-of-the-objective-lens/

What about the sound track, just go on Youtube Music and search for "Vietnam", you'll get 90% of the sound track, what BS.

Agreed, but who are the "they"?

Wow! Great thread. Gives balance to Burns' revisionism. Of course, I'm wondering how this series impacts the current political discourse around Iraq and Afghanistan, let alone Trump's mantra of Make America Great Again.

It's a false equivalency to give the 3 other venues the same quality as the Dallas venue. If one stops to consider the political context in which Chicago, Tampa and Miami venues offered the plotters, none comes close to Dallas. I don't know about Tampa or Miami, but I can't imagine the mayor of Chicago, the honorable Richard Daley, a fellow Irish Catholic, allowing the Chicago police department to railroad the designated patsy Valley to the exclusion of any other suspects/conspirators. RFK would have been all over him. Recall that in the 1960 presidential election, Kennedy won the metro Chicago vote by 100k votes over Nixon which gave Kennedy a victory in Illinios. The rural Illinios voters favored Nixon. And more than one pundit has suggested that the Democractic Daley machine rigged the vote for Kennedy. Now consider Dallas. Who's the mayor? None other than Earl Cabell, the brother of Charles Cabell of the CIA who was fired by Kennedy along with Allan Dulles after the Bay of Pigs fiasco What about the Dallas PD? We all know from studying this history how they responded The Mauser rifle magically becomes the Carcano. Oswald is interrogated while in custody but the DPD fails to record his responses And for the clincher, Ruby manages to get a clean shot that kills Oswald while Oswald is being protected by something like 70 Dallas policemen. Like I said I can't imagine that happening in Mayor Richard J. Daley's Chicago. .

JIm, What about Clay "Bertrand" Shaw's call to Dean Andrews on Nov. 23 asking Andrews to provide legal representation for Oswald? Gotta be #18 on your list, because Garrison developed that lead. And of course, this call of Nov 23 was the basis for Garrison's prosecution of Shaw. Something I haven't come across in my reading is why Shaw would make such a request of Andrews; because Shaw must have understood that he would come under scrutiny for doing this In any case, I think Shaw's call to Andrews could be evidence of a double cross to the NOLA crowd(which included Oswald) in Dallas. As for Ferrie's road trip to Houston on the afternoon/evening, I've read that there was/is a general aviation airport in the general area of the skating rink Very convenient for Ferrie to fly people out of the country . One of the most impressive early books is Joachim Joesten's Assassin or Fall Guy, written before the Warren Report came out In fact, I wonder how much this work influenced Mark Lane's Rush to Judgement because Joesten was big lefty(lived in France) couldn't get this book published in the US. His kids are the reason it's available today in the US Thanks for the thread D

What I find thought provoking about the gay angle in the JFK case is that Gen Edwin Walker was also gay. So what are the chances that he didn't know the others and interact with them ( Clay, Ferrie, Ruby and Oswald)??.... given the closeted times in Dallas and NOLA in the early '60s. And what about Oswald's Undesirable Discharge, which was the kind discharge gays got in the military in the 50's, 60's, etc when they were outed. Maybe Oswald tipped his hand while he was in Russia, resulting in his tainted discharge, because it makes no sense to me that the Marines would do this for their stated reason( Oswald missed his Marine Reserve meetings). Oswald was in Russia working for an ONI fake defector intelligence program. And maybe Oswald's rush to marry (Ellen German then Marina) was his way of making amends with his Intel and military superiors. From Wiki: (Edwin) Walker, then 66, was arrested on June 23, 1976, for public lewdness in a restroom at a Dallas park. He was accused of fondling and propositioning a male undercover police officer.[44][45][46] He was arrested again in Dallas for public lewdness on March 16, 1977.[47][48] He pleaded no contest to one of the two misdemeanor charges, was given a suspended and a 30-day jail sentence and fined $1,000

Crazy like a befuddled fox. I think he's losing it. In his exchange with Comey, McCain was completely befuddled (looked like dementia to me) by what Comey was saying about the two investigations; namely, the Hilary Email Server investigation was completed on July 5th, 2016 and the current Russian Meddling/Trump Cover-up investigation is ongoing; not completed. I was watching live and was astounded by McCain lack of wits.....and this guy is a sitting Senator. I was surprised that no one on the Committee came to his rescue. They just let him twist in wind

Angleton's comment "Wilderness of mirrors" seems apt

The high priestess of the LNers, Ruth Paine, speaks out and nothing much has changed. from the local newspaper in Santa Rosa, Ca. May 17, 2017 http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/7003986-181/smith-finding-strange-bedfellows-among