Joe Bauer

2 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

These people are attracted to conspiracy because they see conspiracies everywhere.

I always laugh when I read self-anointed human behavior experts disparaging conspiracy believers as mentally deranged kooks who "see conspiracies everywhere."

True historic reality has shown us there "are" conspiracies everywhere...at least way more than most average person's ever contemplate.  

Not around every corner. Not in most daily activities of common working folks. Not in every family drama and relationships. Not in 90% of American small business life and activity.

Yet, the higher up the corporate, military, government, private wealth influence and control stakes ladder you go, the more conspiratorial that world becomes. It's inherent in their survival and growth DNA. IMO anyways. 

In JFK presidency times the highest level power, wealth, control and influence groups and individuals were such ones as American organized crime, world's richest men Texas Oil, extreme minded segregationist organizations, rogue intelligence agencies, ideological factions in our military, heads of extra government agencies like the FBI, Eisenhower's M.I. C. warning corporate wealth ... all JFK adversarial minded to extreme degrees.

We all know by common sense and deep historical research in that massively wealthy and powerfully influential world of JFK opposing agendas that all of those entities must have had conspiracies brewing in their shared goal of defeating anything JFK was proposing that threatened their influence and wealth. 

Conspiracies everywhere? No. But much more in those realms of power and influence than the average person ever imagined during JFK's time?

1 minute ago, Bill Brown said:

Also, important to note, My 65%-35% numbers were made up; I wasn't referring to any particular poll.  It was a hypothetical.

Really?

The most important fact reality here is that 65% of Americans polled do not believe the Warren Commission finding that Oswald was the assassin of JFK and that he acted alone.

Even after "61 years" ( ! ) of aggressive government and mainstream media efforts to convince the public otherwise. 

Parse that number up in any way you want with disagreements among this 65% regards who they specifically think may have been involved. Yet in this over-all WC rejecting context, the entire 65% are all in agreement.

Of course the "who did it" secondary importance question contemplation is all over the map within that 65% group.

Heck, the same is true right here on this forum of highly informed versus the general public JFKA students and researchers.

Consensus rejection of the Warren Commission Oswald LN finding by 2/3rds of Americans polled after 61 years of debate is the real worthy story here.

1 hour ago, Denny Zartman said:

Good work, @Robert Morrow , thanks for all that information. Very enlightening.

I agree with MASTER FLASH Z man on this one Robert.

22 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you first think about this again after Saturday?
Mr. KANTOR. Well, I understood later on that Jack Ruby had been in the assembly room in the basement of the Dallas Police Station after midnight on Friday going into Saturday. I didn't see him at that time. I was in that room. It was a very crowded room. But I thought about our conversation on Saturday when I passed by his place. And earlier Saturday evening I thought of Jack Ruby because meat sandwiches, beef sandwiches, I believe they were, had shown up in the pressroom of the Dallas Police Station, and I heard someone remark
that Jack Ruby had brought them in. I didn't see him then, either.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You heard this while you were at the police station?
Mr. KANTOR. Yes; Well, I was going in the room to get a sandwich, and they were gone, they were gone very rapidly. I heard someone either specifically say it to me or I heard someone specifically saying, to someone else that Jack Ruby was the person that brought these in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that Friday afternoon or late Friday evening, or in the middle of Friday?

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Mr. KANTOR. I am not sure now. It seems to me that it was Saturday. It seems to me that it was Saturday, late afternoon.

The late night Dallas PD building crowd seemed to have been a constantly hungry bunch.

For years, on his way to pop into the DPD to shoot the bull, usually late at night, Ruby would stop at his favorite deli and have them make lots of sandwiches which he would then bring to his police buddies there. Damn good sandwiches it's been reported. 

Ruby was still doing this up until the day before he whacked Lee Harvey Oswald in the DPD basement garage. 

Hey, here he comes! Jack, you got any corn beef on rye there for me?

Let us examine what exactly Seth Kantor said in his Warren Commission testimony taken on June 2nd, 1964, that the Commission used to determine that Kantor was most likely confused about meeting Jack Ruby at Parkland at approximate 1:30 PM on 11,22,1963 and that in their final finding stated this meeting did not happen.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, can you tell us what happened when you saw Ruby--when you encountered Ruby at Parkland Hospital, what the encounter consisted of?
 

Mr. KANTOR. Yes; I apparently walked right past him, because the first I was aware of Jack Ruby was that as I was walking, I was stopped momentarily by a tug on the back of my jacket.

And I turned and saw Jack Ruby standing there. He had his hand extended. I very well remember my first thought. I thought, well, there is Jack Ruby. I had been away from Dallas 18 months and 1 day at that time, but it seemed just perfectly normal to see Jack Ruby standing there, because he was a known goer to events. And I had my mind full of many things.

My next reaction was to just turn and continue on my way. But he did have his hand out. And I took his hand and shook hands with him. He called me by name. And I said hello to him, I said, "Hello, Jack," I guess. And he said, "Isn't this a terrible thing?" I said, "Yes"; but I also knew it was no time for small talk, and I was most anxious to continue on up the stairway, because I was standing right at the base of the stairway.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you inside the building or outside?
Mr. KANTOR. I was inside the building, just immediately inside the building.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were the doors guarded?
Mr. KANTOR. If there was a guard on the door, I don't recall seeing one.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, you do recall, however, that there was a guard at the entrance to the emergency area?
Mr. KANTOR. There was at least one guard, yes--when I first got there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Go ahead.

Mr. KANTOR. A Dallas policeman. I am not sure how many Secret Service men or other guards there were. But I do remember this one man, because he let me in.

At any rate, Jack Ruby said, "Isn't this a terrible thing," or words to that effect. I agreed with him that it was.
And he said--and he had quite a look of consternation on his face. He looked emotional---which also seemed fitting enough for Jack Ruby.

But he asked me, curiously enough, he said, "Should I close my places for the next 3 nights, do you think?"
And I said, "Yes, I think that is a good idea."
And I excused myself. And he said he understood, and I went on. And that was the sum total of it.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you this: At the time you were out at Parkland

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Hospital, did you see any other press representatives whom you had remembered from your days in Dallas, who worked in Dallas?
Mr. KANTOR. I didn't see any outside. However, by the time Kilduff made his announcement at 1:30, there were newsmen coming in from all over whom I recognized. And because of this weird situation, unreal situation, I didn't speak to any then.
During the next hour or so that I was in the hospital I saw a number of news people from both Dallas and Fort Worth who I at least said hello to, who I know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember if there were any people from the Dallas Morning News that you saw at Parkland Hospital, either reporters or photographers?
Mr. KANTOR. I can tell you who I remember seeing, and I don't think I recall seeing a Dallas Morning News person at all until I got to the police station later that afternoon.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You are going to tell me who you remember seeing from the Dallas papers at Parkland Hospital, or just who you generally remember seeing during those 3 days.
Mr. KANTOR. I can tell you who I can remember seeing in the makeshift press headquarters from Dallas and Fort Worth.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At Parkland?
Mr. KANTOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. But I take it you don't remember anybody from the Morning News?
Mr. KANTOR. I don't recall anyone from the Dallas Morning News, no, as a matter of fact.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. How far is the Morning News Building in Dallas from the Times Herald Building?
Mr. KANTOR. The better part of a mile.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you saw Ruby, did you notice anybody with him? Did he seem to be with anybody?
Mr. KANTOR. He didn't seem to be with anybody. The only other people I noticed in this area--as I say, it seemed like a small entranceway, and it was just a very few steps to the stairway--were these people who appeared to be hospital attendants.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you recall if at the time you were at Parkland Hospital there were television cameras setup outside the main entranceway?
Mr. KANTOR. No. I was told later on that various people around the country who I know saw me on television as I came out to talk to the Congressmen before they went out to Love Field, and I was not aware of any cameras.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But it is your best impression that you were shown on TV?
Mr. KANTOR. Well, I have been told that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you any idea what TV networks you appeared on?
Mr. KANTOR. No, sir; none.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now--
Mr. KANTOR. This happened frequently, incidentally, over the weekend, also, in the police station as well. I don't know--I guess all the networks were involved at one point or another, but I don't know when or where.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In ,the first report that you made of this encounter with Ruby, you reported that you saw him before you went to the press conference.
Mr. KANTOR. That is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And now as I understand your testimony, you are not sure whether it was before or after.

Mr. KANTOR. Yes; and the thing that gave me pause was that Jack Ruby had specifically said to me, or asked me my opinion about closing his places for three nights, and it occurred to me later on that no announcement of the President's death had been made. as I was following Kilduff up the stairway, at 1:30, whereas at approximately 2 o'clock it had been made.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you try to focus on your state of mind at the time that you first wrote your newspaper article about this, and reported that it was before the press conference. What was it at that time that made you think that you saw Ruby before the press conference?

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Mr. KANTOR. To be honest, with all the events crowded into that weekend, I don't think that I recalled the significance of my second brief trip out of the hospital to the main entranceway in front of the hospital, and then back in again. It was a very fast trip. And I think it was just a failure on my part to remember the second incident.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. As you were going back into the hospital the second time, where were you going?
Mr. KANTOR. I was returning to the makeshift press headquarters in the classroom, on the second floor.
Mr. GRIFFIN. As you were entering that building, did you have any expectation that there was something important going on at that pressroom that you ought to get to right away?
Mr. KANTOR. Well, I didn't know. I knew that I was not going with this pool group, and that my people in Washington were interested in knowing the logistics of the U.S. Government at that moment, where Lyndon Johnson was going and what was going to happen, and were we remaining in Dallas, and John Connally's condition, and everything at once. And this seemed to be the logical place to get whatever information there was, because information was very scanty.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What I want to get at is whether your concern or apprehension about getting into the building was any greater as you went in before the press conference than it was when you returned after the press conference.
Mr. KANTOR. No; I would I say this was a consistent feeling.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So that your reluctance to stop and talk with Ruby when you saw him wouldn't have been any greater at one time than at another?
Mr. KANTOR. Oh, no. I saw really a number of close friends on the second floor of the hospital, newspapermen who I had known intimately, been to their house, and they had been to my house quite often. And we still didn't indulge in anything resembling small talk.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, do you have any question in your mind that you did see Ruby out at Parkland Hospital?

Mr. KANTOR.   >>>   If it was a matter of just seeing him, I would have long ago been full of doubt. But I did talk to the man, and he did stop me, and I just can't have any doubt about that.  <<<

Mr. GRIFFIN. Now---
Mr. KANTOR. As a matter of fact, I didn't give it much thought, or any thought, perhaps, again, concrete thought at least, until the following night, Saturday night, when things quieted down enough so that I could take a walk in downtown Dallas, somewhere around 10 o'clock in the evening. And I passed by Ruby's place, the Carousel, and saw a sign on the door stating that it was closed. And I recalled this weird conversation I had had with him at the hospital.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Now--
Mr. KANTOR. Excuse me because a man named Barney Weinstein, who operates a strip joint a couple of doors away, had his place open.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you first think about this again after Saturday?
Mr. KANTOR. Well, I understood later on that Jack Ruby had been in the assembly room in the basement of the Dallas Police Station after midnight on Friday going into Saturday. I didn't see him at that time. I was in that room. It was a very crowded room. But I thought about our conversation on Saturday when I passed by his place. And earlier Saturday evening I thought of Jack Ruby because meat sandwiches, beef sandwiches, I believe they were, had shown up in the pressroom of the Dallas Police Station, and I heard someone remark
that Jack Ruby had brought them in. I didn't see him then, either.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You heard this while you were at the police station?
Mr. KANTOR. Yes; Well, I was going in the room to get a sandwich, and they were gone, they were gone very rapidly. I heard someone either specifically say it to me or I heard someone specifically saying, to someone else that Jack Ruby was the person that brought these in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that Friday afternoon or late Friday evening, or in the middle of Friday?

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Mr. KANTOR. I am not sure now. It seems to me that it was Saturday. It seems to me that it was Saturday, late afternoon.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, when, after you walked down Commerce Street on Saturday night did you next think about your encounter with Ruby at Parkland Hospital?
Mr. KANTOR. Well, having walked past his place, and having seen that it was closed, I don't know whether I gave it any more thought.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I mean after that, when was the next time you thought about it?
Mr. KANTOR. The next time was just moments after 11:21 a.m., Sunday morning, when I discovered that Jack Ruby had shot Oswald.

Can you imagine if a reputable Facial Recognition analysis entity actually came up with a 99% accurate match regards any of the JFKA photos of possible nefarious characters taken in places like Dealey Plaza on 11,22,1963, Oswald's leaflet passing in New Orleans in August of 1963, or in the RFK primary crowd in the Los Angeles Ambassador Hotel the evening of June 6th, 1968?

If Rip Roberston was in Dealey Plaza watching JFK's limo go past, if Bill Shelley was standing near Oswald in front of the N.O. Trade Mart in August of 1963, or if some high level intel covert team member was in the RFK crowd at the Ambassador Hotel, etc. etc., this would be a major revelation game changer in the least.

Maybe we could find out the identity of the dark complexion man seated next to the Umbrella man on the grassy knoll curb just after JFK was shot? Or the odd gait and suit dressed man walking through the 3 tramps perp march line in front of the TXSBD building an hour after the JFK hit? 

How about running a tracking trace on facial photos of Lee Oswald and Jack Ruby themselves? Maybe even Roscoe White?

Eventually someone is going to try this new and much more advanced technology in the JFKA and RFKA research realm. We have to.

2 hours ago, Kevin Balch said:

You don’t believe Ruby was in his car at the time bawling over hearing the news on the radio that JFK was dead as in the movie “Ruby and Oswald”?

Jack Ruby quotes:

"Everything pertaining to what's happening has never come to the surface. The world will never know the true facts of what occurred, my motives. The people who had so much to gain, and had such an ulterior motive for putting me in the position I'm in, will never let the true facts come above board to the world."

"When I mentioned about Adlai Stevenson, if he was vice president there would never have been an assassination of our beloved President Kennedy."

"I have been used for a purpose, and there will be a certain tragic occurrence happening if you don't take my testimony and somehow vindicate me so my people don't suffer because of what I have done."

"It may not be too late, whatever happens, if our President, Lyndon Johnson, knew the truth from me. But if I am eliminated, there won't be any way of knowing."

12 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Cory:  Namely, why she did not go down to the parade with Marina and children?

Do you have kids Cory?  Ruth Paine had 2 kids 4 and 2. Marina had 2 kids, one kid was 1 and a half, and one daughter was one month old!

I assume if you had kids, that question wouldn't be such a mystery.

Totally agree.

Fight heavy traffic. Try and find parking. Massive crowds.  With 4 very young kids under tow? Including a one month old baby? Probably being breast fed? Marina tired from giving birth just a month earlier and not getting much sleep tending to her baby? Marina also maybe arguing with Lee the night before as well?  Cold wet weather up until late morning?

Ridiculous!  

I hate crowds for all the reasons above. And I never had 4 young kids in tow like Ruth and Marina.

And of all the places Ruth could have chosen to see any part of the motorcade, why would she just pick Dealey Plaza?

Non issue here. imo.

Seth Kantor had absolutely nothing in his background that would indicate a man of confused thought, especially the very day he was immersed in the middle of the biggest news event of his life.

His psychological make up was that of a very intelligent, mentally stable and highly responsible professional career person.

Ruby on the other hand exhibited different forms of mental instability his whole life.

The dismissing of Kantor's Jack Ruby encounter at Parkland testimony was one of the top 3, 4 or 5 most suspicious ( and credibility damaging ) actions of the Warren Commission in their final summation report imo.

For whatever reasons such as security in not having both the president and vice president in the same car during the Dallas motorcade, it surely irked LBJ to be riding two cars back in a plain light blue Lincoln versus JFK's flashy, flag adorned and impressively big black limo.

Hundreds of thousands lined the motorcade route and in many of the most crowded areas thousands of bystanders went crazy smiling, waving, snapping pictures and calling out to JFK and Jackie. All eyes were on JFK and Jackie. Even after they passed.

LBJ with his huge ego must have felt humiliated when even people close to his car on the parade route were still staring down towards the Presidential limo. No cheering, smiling, waving and excited picture taking for him and Lady Bird. 

JFK's and Jackie's physical presence popularity was off the charts. They were like rock stars wherever they went, even in Texas. Women swooning, men gawking amorously at the beautiful young Jackie, children excited too.

Nobody gave a hoot about the big oaf looking guy always trailing behind them.

LBJ was always consumed with jealousy about the movie star looks JFK I am sure. In every way. Including JFK's wealthy and privileged birth right versus his own plain hick town one.

JFK and Jackie's pictures were splashed on hundreds if not thousands of popular culture magazine covers all over the world ( Europe especially ) their entire 1,000 days of presidential term. They were rock star level beautiful people icons unlike anything the world had ever seen before them.

LBJ and Bird? No interest at all. Not even when he was president. 

America was still in shock over the JFK assassination when the 1964 election came to pass. There was still great apprehension and even fear to a degree. LBJ had managed to portray himself as a JFK and JFK policy defender and this unsure view of him as somebody more nefarious just didn't take hold. I think the huge LBJ vote win in 64 was more a JFK sympathy and status quo fear vote than anything else.

LBJ getting the civil rights bill passed in early July of 1964, with a huge orchestrated fan fare event with Martin Luther King himself right behind LBJ when he signed it also guaranteed millions of black votes in the November election.

JFK and RFK were so hated by so many in this country to a murder wishing degree back in November of 63 it doesn't take much research to understand why these people celebrated JFK's brutal slaughter.

Powerful JFK haters:

Organized crime, segregationists, Texas oil, former Intel leaders fired by JFK, highest level former covert ops and even military mercenary types over the Bay Of Pigs, hot headed Cubans, J. Edgar Hoover, miffed top military generals and on and on.

JFK hate was so deep and widespread right here in our own country, it's rational to consider any or all of them as potential suspects in his murder.

I do believe LBJ's years of heavy money crooked dealings would have been exposed had he not assumed the presidency. Sooner or later. Bobby Baker, Billy Sol Estes, Kick backs everywhere and for years...all of it would have come to light. So, I am in the camp that believes LBJ and his mentors and backers had to make sure the Kennedy's would be out of the picture before the S*** hit the fan in that regards.

1 hour ago, Robert Morrow said:

It is a proven fact that both Lee Harvey Oswald and and Lyndon Johnson knew George DeMohrenschildt.

LBJ absolutely had the power to swing national media; the owners, executives and reporters of the national media were Lyndon Johnson's personal friends for decades. For example, LBJ was pals with William Paley of CBS since 1943 and CBS did many favors for both LBJ and the the CIA. Lyndon Johnson, FBI J. Edgar Hoover and CIA Allen Dulles, collectively, had a massive media manipulation operation. J. Edgar Hoover, of course, was a close neighbor and friend of LBJ from 1943 to 1961. The FBI's de facto PR man Deke DeLoach was a close personal friend of Lyndon Johnson. LBJ used Deke DeLoach to vet Richard Helms for the CIA directorship (told to me personally by Deke DeLoach in 2011).

Lyndon Johnson a great pal with Lew Wasserman the King of Hollywood and other moguls like Arthur Krim. LBJ's top Wall Street fundraisers was a Jew named Ed Weisel who ALSO was the chief counsel for the Hearst Media empire. Everywhere you turn you will see Lyndon Johnson plugged in at the highest levels of the media. CBS President Richard Stanton in fact acted as an IMAGE CONSULTANTE for LBJ while he was in the White House! See all about that in David Halberstam's book on the media called The Powers that Be. LBJ was personal friends with these media powers that were.

Someone needs to write a 700 page book on the close ties and personal friends between Lyndon Johnson and all the media: TV., radio, print, Hollywood, newspapers, magazines.

LIFE Magazine, who was preparing to gut LBJ in its issue to be print on 11/29/63 flipped on a time to became one of LBJ's greatest shields, protecting him from scrutiny in the JFK assassination as Life went along with the JFK assassination cover up.

 

Agree.

3 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

But the overwhelming response was that RFK  suspected Dulles of killing his brother just as much as they all did. And was just going undercover and "feeling out" Dulles in the phone call.  I didn't see it that way. i think if RFK had strong suspicions about Dulles, he wasn't the sort to hide it., and despite the well documented hostility between RFK and LBJ, I think they actually were working in tandem  for the good of the country. (oh how could that be!)

Over the years, I've listened to many recorded conversation tapes of LBJ and RFK speaking to each other on the phone months and even years after 11,22,1963. On the surface they sounded civil and even complimentary once or twice, but imo you still could feel RFK's restrained coolness.

One late night ( I assume it was at that time ) RFK unexpectedly called LBJ and in a very worked up and even angry tone, said to Johnson ( paraphrasing ) ... I've heard that you had been told that I was involved in some type of plot to overthrow the government through force and violence!?

WHOA!

Johnson was in bed from what I remember and RFK's late night call was so seriously and shockingly charging in it's message, Johnson sounded extremely caught off guard and defensive. "No, No, that's in error" Johnson stammered in between taking several deep breaths to calm himself. 

RFK ended the seriously charging call with a "well, we'll all get through." And LBJ agreeing and throwing out a weak..."bye."

What always struck me in that call was how RFK was speaking to LBJ without the slightest reverence that one would expect someone to have in a personal call to a sitting President Of The United States. And LBJ took it without any "hey, do you know who you are talking to buddy?" offense at all.

RFK was pissed...and let LBJ know he was pissed. And LBJ took it.

I can imagine LBJ ROARING in anger over that call and immediately calling up his "like brothers" buddy J. Edgar Hoover and reading him or anyone else who had something to do with the RFK "plotting to overthrow the government" leak the riot act.

RFK had to keep up 5 years of pretending not to be suspecting of LBJ and other parts of our government for his brother's murder.

RFK despised LBJ and even Hoover and I will never believe he trusted Dulles any more than those two.

RFK had to keep in mind that his brother was actually murdered by some very bad and serious people. Who, as it turned out had him taken out as well.  He had no choice but to "act" like he didn't think the worst regards these power heads, at least until he had the full power and protection of the presidency. IMO anyways.

19 minutes ago, Gil Jesus said:

What's that got to do with the way the others were dressed ? 

1. Perry was dark skinned ( 7 H 168 ) and was wearing a brown sport coat, no tie. ( 7 H 233 )

2. Clark had blond hair, blue eyes ( 7 H 168 ) and was wearing a white short-sleeved shirt with a red vest. ( 7 H 236 )

3. Ables was short, heavy and was wearing a grey woolen sweater. ( 7 H 240 )

What witness described Tippit's killer as any of the above three ?

Exactly. What a shamelessly obvious set up.

The only thing preventing serious use of AI ( facial recognition ) in new JFKA research right now is the cost.

Also, there are many, many photographs of the crowds inside the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles the night of June 6th, 1968. Both before, during and after RFK's shooting there.

Scanning those with the latest most advanced Facial Recognition tools would possibly reveal some very intriguing results imo.

I've posted this video a dozen times because LBJ says in it he was never completely relieved of the fact that others besides Oswald could have been involved in the JFKA.

If Johnson himself had doubts about the lone gunman conclusion of the WC, it's kind of hard to blow off his shocking personal feeling comments to Walter Cronkite as meaningless.

And when the three biggest wheels behind and actually on the Warren Commission from creation to finish were well known proven JFK and RFK haters ( LBJ, HOOVER, DULLES ) how can anyone not see the incredibly obvious bias incongruity of it's make up and control?

JFK: Just the Facts

The interview is very revealing of Angleton's mind set.

6 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Worse than that, Joe -- it was Kim Jong Un.

This isn't a Democrat vs. Republican election -- it's Democracy vs. Dictatorship.

Oh. My mistake. Thanks for the correction Cliff. And you are right...the Kim Jong Un analogy ...is even worse!

Too bad that the interviewer wouldn't or couldn't ask Angleton his personal views regards JFK and whether he ( Angleton ) considered JFK one of the lawmakers denigrating our intelligence services?

Trump... "He ( Hungarian prime minister Victor Orban ) speaks and his people sit up at attention...I want my people to do that."

Why are people here playing this game of pretending Trump isn't as bad and dangerous as these other authoritarian dictators?

2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Thank you also Robert.

"An imperfect democracy is preferable to a totalitarian state." 

"In the end he felt it was the breaking of Nixon that did the most damage to the CIA."

"For Nixon failed to win the crucial battle. That national security is above the law."

"I would suggest that this was an issue ( Watergate ) that should have been taken to the Supreme Court by the executive."

"I believe there are inherent rights by the President of the United States to advance national security in his election."

"There is always a question of whether a democratic country is capable of having an intelligence service of any great merit." "Simply because of the built-in inhibitions."

It usually takes a national crisis, or a Pearl Harbor for people to then understand what survival means."

Interviewer: "Why do we need intelligence at all?" Angleton: "for survival."

"In the West it is almost inconceivable to be able to deceive. When the very people who are your lawmakers are the ones who destroy your secrets. When the very people who profit by living in a democratic institution are those who denigrated the word 'national security' until it has no meaning."

These points worth contemplating:

The Soviets were totally committed to destroying the West. With unlimited resources and no legal or philosophical restraints unlike the Western democracies.

It was a war. And we were hampered greatly in this fight. 

JFK's adversarial stance against the CIA ( as well his speeches of peace, secrets abhorrence and possible co-operation with the Soviets )  didn't win him any love within it's ranks. Easy to see him viewed as a national security threat by them in the context of Angleton's  comments above.

Thoughts?

13 hours ago, Robert Morrow said:

 

 Let's see if this works...

Thank you also Robert.

Harrelson involved? Nuts...imo.

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

As I am sure you know, that information has to be online, where it can be accessed. The JFKA era...not always so.

There are so many photos of Rip Robertson, Bill Shelley and many other nefarious characters from different time periods that a Facial Recognition lab could use to compare I think this would be an easy analysis.