John Butler

What's those old sayings? "Follow the money" and "It's all about the money." What was Oswald worth to the Russians? I did some work on this sometime back and this is what I found: Let’s summarize Oswald’s pay in relation to others: Kim Philby- The most notorious Cold War British spy received 1670 rubles from the Soviets when he defected. Lee Harvey Oswald- Oswald received 1400 rubles, 700 for his job and 700 more from the Red Cross (actually the MVD secret police) for a low rate job at the radio factory in Minsk. This info on the low quality job comes from fellow workers. Robert Webster- A Rand Company worker who defected to the Soviet Union. For helping them make a spray gun he had demonstrated was given first 1000 rubles and later a salary of 280 rubles per month with a semi-annual bonus of 50 to 60 rubles. Workers at the Minsk Radio factory- Average pay there was about the 70 rubles, perhaps a little higher for women, as Oswald stated he would receive at first. As you can see, whatever Oswald did for the Russians they considered almost as valuable as a spy who worked for them undercover in Britain for nearly 50 years. Philby joined the Communist Part around 1912 as a student. Philby was a top rank British Intelligence officer in MI6. (And, lunch partner of James Jesus Angleton.) Here I made a mistake through not knowing enough. I said "for a low rate job at the radio factory in Minsk." Actually, Oswald was sent to the largest electronics factory in the Soviet Union in Minsk to be a regulator (Supervisor) in the Experimental Shop. To the Russians what Oswald had to offer was worth far more than what Robert Webster had to offer. The connection between the two is tenuous. This could only be technical information that would give the Russians the edge to shoot down the U2. This new radar system would be developed in the Experimental Shop. Oswald's whole career in the Marines revolved around first aircraft maintenance and repair and then his main pursuit radar control. He spent from 1957 to 1959 in radar related activities at Atsugi, Japan (the CIA's largest post in the orient) and at El Toro in the US. He was sent to other secret bases perhaps to learn more. Obviously, this was for the U2 and Atomic Energy secrets. That is what he was doing in Nevada (near Area 51) and Arizona (the top secret Marine Base involved in NORAD activities). I'm with Mae Brussels and now James Norwood on this. Oswald, an American agent, was sent to the Soviet Union to help the Russians shoot down the U2 and screw up the Eisenhower/Khrushchev talks.

Bill, I would think a defector was escaping from something and running towards something better. At least in the defector's mind. So, Oswald was leaving a bad situation and moving towards a better situation. At least that's what I would think would be the case. He would have to be treated badly for his defection to work. Courts Martial, demotions, and time in the brig would make him seem to be more disaffected and willing to look for a better future. Later this would help when he was trying to work his way into situations such as the anti-Castro and pro-Castro crowds. In other words his failed military career would help with his cover story in whatever he was doing. I think Oswald made a big mistake somewhere that put him in the Patsy's Seat. That aside, I would like to get your thoughts on something different. This thread is about Oswald's language ability. What's you opinion of the Tippit phone call and Oswald being the son of a Hungarian communist immigrant. During researching that idea the following came up: These books were in Oswald's personal possessions. The Circus Maximus is a book of poems written in Hungarian and by a Hungarian communist. It was published in 1962 and as far as I know the book has never been translated into English. This might indicate that Oswald could also read/speak Hungarian. The other book is an early copy of the Communist Manifesto from the 1920s or 30s. The price is 15 cents which indicates it is a book handed down to Oswald and not bought recently on the market in the 1950s or 1960s. Much thought was given to the idea that Oswald may have been a Russian refugee brought to New York through refugee organizations and raised by Hungarians in New York. We really could not put any real evidence behind this notion. Just the Tippit phone call, information on the Gardos and other New York communists, circumstantial connections, and a lot of speculation. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks Bill, I'm sure you put a lot time and effort into answering my two questions. I'm sorry, but I'm so thick headed that I didn't catch what you were saying. First off why would Oswald's taking a boat from New Orleans be linked to Robert Webster taking a 20 day vacation? One could speculate that Webster, who has an experience similar to Oswald's, be linked to a defector program sponsored by US government agencies. I don't see how you can go further than that. The only connection I can see between the two is Marina Prusakova. Maybe she is the go between in setting up an espionage network. Oswald is in Minsk being monitored by 30 agents and his home is bugged. He was probably monitored extensively at work. I don't see how he could be connected to Webster until much later when Marina shows up. How would Oswald know this? Someone would have had to tell him of this somewhere prior to leaving the service. Who knew this kind of stuff amongst his compatriots and other people he knew? Oswald landed in France in Le Havre. Then he goes to England and catches a flight to Helsinki. Actually, if I am recalling correctly this is a somewhat mysterious event. How did he get to Helsinki? By which kind of transportation. How did he know to go from France to England to Finland? Couldn't he have taken some means from France to Finland. Coaching? IMO, it's more like a scripted instruction. Maybe you can make a case that Oswald got this information in Japan from the Russian Colonel, the Japanese professor, or Richard Nagell. Maybe he got it from Gary Hemming when they had a discussion at the gate of his post. Maybe he called the Russian Embassy and received that kind of information? I believe, like everything else in his military career, he was told to go there and he went. Oswald was a patriot. If you look at Oswald's military career he was trained in aircraft maintenance and repair. He was trained in electronics and radar control. He spent a lot of time at radar bases in Japan, the Philippines, and US. He was sent to many secret US bases, other than Santa Ana/El Toro. These had to do with U2s and atomic energy. OBTW, these were the two biggest operations at Atsugi, Japan. They also did MKUltra stuff there. Atsugi was the top CIA base in Japan and the orient. and, I think Sandy Larsen has the best answer on this I have read so far. OBTW, Oswald is in Le Havre, France on Oct. 8, 1959. His doppleganger is on a MATS flight to Germany in roughly the same time period according to the Steenbarger interview.

I am in good company: Jack White and Harold Weisberg Don't mind standing the shadow of Harold Weisberg either. I could not with many year's effort have said this better.

How did Oswald know how to do this? Was it common knowledge? Was this information swapped around in the Marine barracks? Or, was this specialized knowledge that only intelligence folks knew? This has always been a question that bothered me about Oswald's trip to the Soviet Union. Another question that has bugged me? Why take a ship? Was it cheaper? Was he conditioned to make long trips by sea in the Marines? Or, could it have been a period of time was need to make arrangements for Harvey and Lee to be in Europe at the same time. The Steenbarger interview has Lee Oswald in Germany while Harvey is in Finland.

Enclosed for each recipient is one copy of a self-explanatory Army communication dated 12.30.63 captioned Harvey Oswald. Enclosed Army communication alleges that Oswald was in Cuba in the company of Robert Taber, former head of Fair Play for Cuba Committee (FPCC), approximately three weeks after the April 1961, Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba. Here's the document: This is an interesting document. David Josephs, in his timeline as this noted as Lee in Cuba in the first week of May, 1961. It's is roughly the same time as Marita Lorenz says she sees Oswald in April, 1961 before the Bay of Pigs invasion. Now, the question is which Oswald? From this document (Robert Taber) and others (Marita Lorenz) are seeing Harvey Oswald as the man who was later at the Dallas Police station. There is some question about Lorenz. She probably is describing Lee Oswald rather than Harvey. And, that's the problem. How do people who see either Harvey or Lee at one point in time and how they perceive that individual at a later point in time. My contention is that Harvey and Lee were similar in appearance. They routinely fooled people by switching out roles or being in the same place at once. Their appearance was not exactly a one to one such as twins. Here I think lies the creepy, surly, anti-social behavior that can be said to fit both. This was the means by which either of the two could avoid people getting to close and perhaps recognizing that two people are involved. If someone wants to be left alone then folks generally do that and avoid that person in the future. It's often said that Oswald when greeted would often walk away mumbling something indistinguishable. He would sit and read a newspaper or something to avoid conversation. These are also an avoidance routine that would cover one of the Oswalds replacing the other in the same location. On the day of the assassination I am fairly sure that both Oswalds were at the TSBD. They could have worked other places the same way. There is a point to be made for being in the same area. A similar point can be made for them to be widely separated in geography. I think they did both according to need. A big question is where is Lee Oswald from September, 1959 to September, 1960? Well, that can be expanded for Lee from March, 1959 to September, 1960. Marita Lorenz met Lee Oswald before the Bay of Pigs. Two years or more later would she remember him as Lee Oswald or as Harvey Oswald the man shot at the Dallas Police? This is what I think Robert Taber did. He very well may have met Lee Oswald and years later confused him with Harvey Oswald the man shot at the Dallas Police. And, that explains some of the Harvey/Lee confusion one runs into. I have no real evidence to back this up, but some of the behavior in Russian reads as Harvey and other information reads as Lee. These two knew each other. I don't think they cared much for other. However, they probably would have known and studied the others voice, behavior patterns, and mannerisms. This would be a high priority need for changing roles in their career as a double spy. So, IMO it would be difficult to tell one from the other any where or in any time. Separating Harvey from Lee takes a lot of work and evidence, but it can be done. One persons assumption that this is Lee or this is Harvey needs to be looked at closely. No one is infallible, well, except maybe the Pope.

Jim, I haven't had much success on my first try using google images:

I ran across this just now. I had seen this before and had little interest at the time and had forgotten it. But, it does give the background on one of the photos. I believe I made a comment that why in the world would someone save a child's sailor suit for over 22 years and by the time this certificate was made way over 22 years. People do strange things, but this doesn't feel like Robert saving a sailor suit. This if true, and that's a big if, was probably saved by Marguerite.

I have to make apologies to Jim Hargrove for this interruption of the discussion of Harvey and Lee concerns. I couldn't resist it since Jeremy Bocjzuk brought it up. Let's return to the discussion of Harvey and Lee without further comment on the Mass Hysteria in Dealey Plaza post.

This doesn't have much to do with Harvey and Lee. But, since Mr. Bojczuk brought this up I would like to give him a great big old THANK YOU. Thank you for bringing this up. If you have not seen this then use the link provided by Mr. Bojczuk. Check it out. I consider this a fine piece of work whether or not Jack White is made as a comparison. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25659-mass-hysteria-in-dealey-plaza/ Essentially what this post says is that the photo above, like many others, is a fraudulent representation of the events in Dealey Plaza. Over 50 witnesses said they heard shooting when the presidential limousine was in front of the TSBD. Tony Glover said she saw the president's head blow up as the limo made the turn onto Elm Street. The Warren Commission's important witnesses on the 5th floor, Bonnie Ray Williams, Harold Norman, and Junior Jarman gave questionable testimony. Harold Norman said certain things and never changed his testimony. Bonnie Williams made 4 statements that changed the story over time. A defense lawyer would have loved Bonnie. Junior Jarman blew up at the Warren Commission hearing and changed his earlier testimony to say he heard shots from low and to the left (the Dal-Tex building). Their testimony concerning shooting from the Sniper's Nest is refuted by other witnesses on the 4th and 3rd floor who said they heard shooting coming from elsewhere (generally from a western direction) when the limo was in front of the TSBD. Some indicated there was shooting when the limo was under the trees in front of the TSBD. If I am to be associated with the tin foil hat crowd for pointing this out then so be it. I did not say these things. Witness testimony is considered a fact unless refuted. 50+ witnesses said they heard shooting in front of the TSBD. This is during the time of the Zapruder Gap. Most witness films (something like 6-8 or so) have gaps, missing frames, and scenes so badly out of focus and distorted that you can't see what is happening in front of the Court Records building. For most films to have these problems in front of the Court Records building must have meaning associated with the ambush starting there and continuing in front of the TSBD. If true shooting south on Houston Street was a distinct possibility as most people would predict. Except this shooting did not occur from the 6th floor. This notion changes the official story radically. It is something most folks can not tolerate for whatever reasons.

Thanks Tracy, I don't recall saying that. But, no matter. That shirt on Oldman does appear to be the same as the shirt on Oswald in some other Russian photos of Oswald. I would guess Stone wanted as much accuracy as possible. By picking Beata Pozniak he sure fooled me on Marina.

I don't understand that. You seem to be confusing the two photos as one or what?. Lee is in the CAP photo when he was a teenager and has missing teeth. This is in line with witness statements and Sandy Larsen's work. Harvey has all of his front teeth including a smaller left lateral incisor that is clearly visible in the photo. It is not a bridge and you can't regrow teeth in that era. Until proven otherwise like the Lee and Marina photo above, I am going to assume this is a photo of Lee at 3 years, and Harvey at two years. These are allegedly from Robert Oswald who is not a trust worthy person as far as the identity of his mother and Lee Harvey Oswald are concerned. This is a good assumption. It relates well with other photos of Harvey Oswald. It is based on other purported photos of Lee Harvey Oswald (Harvey) and all have this same ear characteristic. The photos of Lee Oswald do not have this trait.

I did not find this scene in the movie JFK. I watched the earlier version and the Director's Cut version. The scene is in neither. However, I will no longer argue this is Lee and Marina. The scenes that I did find resemble this somewhat. I will post several directly. It could be this scene was cut from the movie, but retained for promotional purposes? Half right and half wrong. My ID traits for Harvey Oswald did work in this instance. This is not Harvey Oswald. More than likely it is Gary Oldman and Beata Pozniak. I still have reservations. The lady featured looks more like Marina than Beata Pozniak. But, that's just me. This was on the internet for years as Lee and Marina. This was the first instance I known of anyone saying other wise. And, now as Pozniak and Oldman, it kills a fine speculation about Lee Oswald and Harvey Oswald in the Soviet Union. This is generally what was shown in the Director's Cut at about 59 minutes into the film. and, and,

Thanks John K, Keep up the good work. Do what you can. This is an important area of research. The key to the Oswald Project is in the Tippet's phone call. Someone (my favorite candidate is Elizabeth Bentley) wants this connection to New York communists known. Someone wanted Lee Harvey Oswald connected to the Gardos family and Hungarians.

Identifying Harvey and Lee: Speaking of the two children's photos supposedly coming from Robert Oswald, isn't it strange that he would have two photos of different children as Lee Harvey Oswald, his brother? I'm sure he wasn't a Harvey and Lee supporter. He was the opposite, a member of the Oswald Project. It is a mistake that even he didn't recognize when dealing with the things Marguerite had left behind. The false Marguerite was the key player in the raising of Harvey and Lee. She would have known and have the necessary back up information to ensure the story of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Steve, I never thought I would hear a discussion of supra orbital ridges on the forum. Good work and thinking. Anthropology is one of my hobbies and keeping up with the ideas on human evolution is one of my interests. I would like to hear more of your thinking on the behavior traits of both Oswalds. This is something I have thought about and haven't come up with any good ideas. Basically, the only thing I could think of is that the two, Harvey and Lee, have noticeable voice differences. These voice differences would be a tell. So, one of them mumbles and walks away in an anti-social manner. And, this stops future confrontations from becoming more noticeable in appearance, manner, and voice differences.

Not a problem Jim, Just look at the teeth. Harvey has his front teeth and Lee doesn't. It's just that simple and doesn't take facial recognition skills. Seven years later Harvey could not have regrown his teeth. I'll probably enrage folks once again, but if I am recalling correctly Judith Baker said she had the same problem and supposedly had problems with Carlos Marcello due to her lack of recognizing him. Leads me to wonder if she cold tell the difference between Harvey and Lee when one showed up in a amorous mood. I have posted many times on Lee and Harvey identification traits. They are simple and easy to understand. Some are irrefutable and others weaker, but still able to identify either Lee or Harvey when used in conjunction. They are primarily based on the mug shot of the man shot at the Dallas Police Department. They are even good enough to recognize Harvey and Lee as children or at least Harvey.

Ah, Jeremy's back and once again he has proven to his total satisfaction that he is right and others are wrong. I don't mind standing in the shadow of Jack White. That is better than reading such vulgar trash as "Wallowing around in the slime, the xxxx and the putriescence... like Tiresias outside the gates of Thebes" from a fellow called Alex Wilson.

I didn't see it in the film. JFK is coming in tomorrow and I will go through the film again. This time frame by frame. It's tedious, but it should either show that scene or not. I'll let you know one way or the other. Thank Steve, That's what I am beginning to think now. Prior, my opinion was that they looked sufficiently different, but similar enough to fool people as long as their was some time difference in between the time the witness saw Harvey or Lee and the occasion when they remembered it later. But, I offer this. From most accounts people think that both Lee and Harvey were at the TSBD on the day of the assassination. At least that is my opinion based on the Martin film. So, they looked sufficiently alike to pull that off even as adults. I believe that they were chosen as children based on these photos. The characteristics I have listed are real and can identify the two individuals as children. They don't look exactly alike, but close enough for government work.

James, I just watched JFK. I didn't see the scene below anywhere in the movie. Could you be more explicit on why you think this is actors rather than Marina and an unknown? Could you show a film clip with this scene in it? Before I can go along with this I need more verification. One of the reasons I think this is an unknown is that Harvey Oswald's identification features are different from this individual. Harvey Oswald's left ear has different characteristics than this individual's left ear. Here's Harvey! Harvey has a distinct left ear with two bends or crooks in the upper rim. This is a major identifier for those photos in question about whether the individual is Harvey or not. The individual in question does not have this characteristic. Here's Lee! Lee does not have unattached ear lobes. This is a major difference to Harvey. Now, let's consider Gary Oldman! OBTW! Does Lee have a pen in his mouth in this photo also? Here's Gary! Gary Oldman has very pronounced, wide earlobes. He doesn't appear to fit the photo. However, If you can show a clip of JFK showing the Lee and Marina scene I'll then sit up an pay attention. This photo of Lee and Marina has been on the internet for years identified as Lee and Marina. This is the first instance I have heard that this might be Beata Pozniak and Gary Oldman. I've sent for a copy of the movie. I have software that will allow you to look at each frame of the movie separately. And, for as long as you want. I'll go over it again to see if I can find that scene. I'll let you know the results. From Jim Hargrove: "If you are pointing out differences in the earlobes, I simply can’t tell the difference (though I’ve often admitted here that I’m not good with faces). What is noticeable to me, though, is that the Oswald on the left image above has what John Pic and one or two others called a “bull neck.” In the right image above, Oswald SEEMS to have a much thinner neck." If you can't see the difference in Harvey's ear and the guy in the Lee and Marina scene then how in the world can you see a bull neck or lack of bull neck in a side view of any Harvey or Lee photos. You can only see the "famous" bull neck of Oswald in a frontal view and not from the side view. It's strange but go look at the photos. Funny how things look differently when you look at things closely and not rely on a bunch of deceptive, manipulated, and out right false documents which have been sanitized before there release.

If you can't see the difference I can't help you. As for the other gotcha questions I don't have time to answer them.

The Harvey story? I wonder what that means in November, 1963? The doc mentions many things of interest.

It's about post cards from Europe and Russia. It is what Steve H. Landesburg alias Rizzuto said. Here's what I wrote earlier: "After his Marine service he kept in touch with L’eandes by post card. L’eandes sent post cards from Stockholm, Leningrad, and Moscow in 1960. L’eandes was accompanied by Lee Harvey Oswald and Earl Perry in their journeys around Europe and Russia in 1960. Rizzuto was told by L’eandes that Oswald was back in the states and had gone to Texas." These kind of things are important for my bias. Or, speculation if you will. Here's the evidence for Lee Oswald in Russian at the moment. (Nothing that really says he is there) 1. There is a picture of Marina hugging some guy who is not Harvey Oswald. She seems to be enjoying the hug. Most other photos don't show her that happy being with Harvey. The unknown guy hugging Marina I assume to be Lee Oswald. It would be nice to know when that photo was taken so a check against the known appearances of Lee Oswald could be made. 2. Steve H. Landesburg, alias Rizzuto, says he received post cards from Russia- Leningrad when Leandes and Oswald were there in 1960. 3. The Steenbarger interview puts Lee Oswald in Germany in mid-October 1959. It a short distance to Helsinki. What was he doing in Germany, anyway? 4. David Josephs says that there are two different signatures for Oswald in Helsinki. One real and one false. 5. IMO, Lee Oswald should have been the one sent to Russia. Being a language bumpkin would have been an advantage. Lee Oswald served for the longer period in radar. He visited more mysterious government bases involving U2s and radar then Harvey. He must have been trained in aircraft maintenance and repair according to the Ransberger incident. He knew more about the U2 than Harvey. Harvey didn't stay in the same barracks with U2 maintenance and repair people. Lee did. Harvey didn't serve at Atsugi, but Lee did. Harvey has a suicide scar on the wrong wrist. I wonder about Lee? Harvey wouldn't have been able to tie his shoe if it involved mechanics or electronics. These are some of the speculations about Lee Oswald might have been in Russia at the same time as Harvey.

Fair enough. But, if you think this thing through it is more than likely that Lee Oswald was a PFC during the fall of 1956. Let's take Harvey's early Marine career as an example of what Marines usually do during the first months and year in the Marine Corps. They do something like this. First, basic combat training and then comes advanced combat training. The typical Marine is then sent to a line company for further combat training with his unit. Others, who have been singled out for some other specialty training are usually sent to that training after advanced combat training. Harvey was training to be a combat marine from Oct., 1956 to May, 1957. That's roughly a 6 month or more period of time. Then in May, 1957 he takes off for further training at Jacksonville. Then once he has trained at Jacksonville he should move off to a Marine job or further training. He goes to Memphis for further training until Sept. Then he goes AWOL. That's not typical, but the idea of combat training and then specialty training then off to a Marine job is the way of things. So, when did Lee do his basic combat training and how long did that take? Did he do it at San Diego? When did he do his advanced combat training and how long did that take? Where was that done? Where did he do his training for aircraft maintenance and repair and how long did that take? How long did all of this take. I would say long enough to be promoted to PFC before he was sent to El Toro repair battalion to work in maintenance and repair with SGT Ransberger. Harvey was promoted to PFC on May 1, 1957. This is sort of an automatic promotion after 6 months. Lee kept his nose clean also and was probably promoted after 6 months in service while he was doing advance combat training like Harvey, but earlier. This was a promotion that was probably before he was trained in maintenance and repair and before he showed up at El Toro to work at the repair battalion in maintenance and repair. Speaking of care.... Oswald had this tonsillectomy when he was 5 years old. Tonsils have a tendency to grow back if they are removed before they are fully grown which occurs at the 8th year or later. If not all of the tonsils were removed they have a tendency to grow back. About 10% do anyway for no particular reason.

From my notes put on the forum once before: Lee Oswald And Harvey Oswald And Their Rank Anomalies From David Josephs timeline for Oct. 24, 1956. This is the day that Harvey Oswald enters the Marine Corps. “While Harvey Oswald was at Boot Camp in San Diego, there are indications that Lee Oswald was also in the Marine Corps and assigned to the Marine Corps Air Facility (MCAF) at El Toro. Sergeant David Wallace Ransberger recalled that during his initial tour of duty at El Toro in 1956, he became acquainted with a Private First Class Oswald.” On this day, Oct. 24, 1956 Harvey enters the Marine Corps with the rank description of Private/E1. He won’t earn that rank until completing training. Obviously, there was some kind of status for pay. On Oct. 24, 1956, is at or on his way to boot camp at the training center for the Western U. S. at San Diego. This is impossible situation for a single individual named Lee Harvey Oswald. The situation is best explained by the Harvey and Lee theory. It is one of the many “smoking guns” of the Harvey and Lee story. Why is this impossible? Here is the Marine Corps policy on rank currently in force. It is the same as that in 1956. From the Internet: “Upon graduating from basic training young Marines earn the rank of Private (E-1). Most enlisted Marines hold this rank for 6 months before they are promoted to Private First Class. I am assuming that is actually an 8 month period- about 2 in Basic Training and another 6 months as an PVT/ E1. Moving up the Marine Corps Ranks: Company commanders have the authority to promote active duty enlisted Privates (E-1) to the rank of PFC (E-2) once they have completed six months of service. This promotion is virtually automatic for those who meet the basic promotion criteria. Private First Class (PFC)/E2: This was Lee Oswald’s rank in Oct. 1956 at El Toro. Private (PVT)/E1: This was the rank of Harvey Oswald in Oct. 1956 in Basic Training at San Diego. Private first class is the second enlisted rank in the Marine Corps. The rank of PFC was established in 1917 to mirror a similar rank added to the Army structure. Moving up the Marine Corps Ranks: Like the promotion to process to PFC, Marine Corps company commanders have the authority to promote active duty enlisted Marines to the rank of LCpl (E-3) when they have completed nine months, Time-in-Service, and eight months, Time-in-Grade. Lance Corporal is the third enlisted rank (E-3) in the Marine Corps. The rank of Lance Corporal was permanently established in 1958, but the term dates back to the early 1800's.” This rank structure suggests that Lee Oswald entered the Marine Corps at least 6 months before Harvey. This would be sometime in May or April of 1956. This could be as early as March of 1956 because Lee Oswald was discharged in March, 1959. His term of enlistment was for 3 years. May 1, 1957: Harvey Oswald is promoted to Private First Class/E2. If you calculate the months between Oct. 1956 and May, 1957 you come out with about 5 months. This date is more suitable for Harvey’s promotion to Private First Class/E2, since at this time he has been in the Corps for at least 6 months. October 24, 1956 to May 1, 1957 is about 6 months. Lee Oswald is supposedly a PFC in the fall of 1956. Lee Oswald may have obtained an early out to go to a foreign college. On March 4th, 1959, Lee applies to the Albert Schweitzer College in Switzerland. This application could have been used as an early out for school, but the term is for the following year. There is more information that suggest a Part 2 to the “smoking gun” rank differences. On March 9, 1959, Lee is promoted to Private 1st Class/E2 again. Harvey’s discharge papers say he was a Private. So, Lee is promoted 10 days before he leaves the service, but Harvey isn’t and remains a Private/E1 until he leaves the service. On March 19, 1959 Lee Oswald discharged from the Maines with rank of PFC. On September 11, 1959, Harvey is released from active duty in the Marine Corps. His rank is Private/E1. What other evidence is there that Lee Oswald entered military service at least 6 months before Harvey Oswald? Before getting into other information one needs to know where a new recruit will be trained. New recruits living east of the Mississippi River will be sent Parris Island, SC. New recruits living west of the Mississippi River will be sent to the recruit training center at San Diego, CA. Why is this important? It may suggest where Lee Oswald entered the Marine Corps and why his records are different from Harvey’s. HSCA Vol. 9, pp 99-100, paragraph 444 has information on Lee Oswald’s attempt to enter the Marine Corps. The information provided says that Marguerite Oswald contacted a long-time friend and attorney in New Orleans, Clem Sehrt. Lee had been pressuring Marguerite to falsify his birth certificate so that he could enter the Marines before his 17th birthday. She asked Sehrt if this was possible. He refused to advise her, but indicated a lot of boys join the service before their legal entrance age. This may refer to Lee’s failed attempt to enter the service at age 16. Later he may tried again and succeeded. Lee Oswald was connected to high level Mafia figures in New Orleans such as Carlos Marcello and his uncle, Dutz Murret. Sehrt’s law firm represented Carlos Marcello. These people, through Marguerite, could have been influential in getting Lee Oswald into the Marines at 16 years of age. It is a possibility that Lee Oswald entered the Marines in New Orleans and was assigned to Parris Island, SC for training in the summer of 1956. An early enlistment for Lee is in accord with his higher rank in the Marines than Harvey in the fall of 1956. Why Parris Island, SC for training. He may have listed in New Orleans and was sent to Parris Island. There is a second piece of controversial evidence concerning the actor Steve Landesberg that suggests this may be so. Steve R. Landesburg, an actor on the Barney Miller TV show, was claimed to have known Lee Harvey Oswald at Parris Island, SC in the summer of 1956. This was the claim of Steve Landesberg (student) going by the name of Jim Rizzuto. The FBI got wind of the story and picked up Steve Landesberg (student), alias Rizzuto. Essentially, Rizzuto said that he met Steve L'eandes (Steven R. Landesberg (actor) and Lee Oswald in the Marine Corps at Camp Lejune in the summer of 1956. This is essentially the story he told the FBI. After his Marine service he kept in touch with L’eandes by post card. L’eandes sent post cards from Stockholm, Leningrad, and Moscow in 1960. L’eandes was accompanied by Lee Harvey Oswald and Earl Perry in their journeys around Europe and Russia in 1960. Rizzuto was told by L’eandes that Oswald was back in the states and had gone to Texas. Rizzuto said that around October, 1961 L’eandes, Perry, and Lee Harvey Oswald had gotten back together and by December were creating disturbances at a Mark Lane rally. In early 1962, L’eandes and Earl Perry were creating a violent disturbance at the American Jewish Congress. He stated that Lee Oswald was taking pictures at the event. He believed that L’eandes and Oswald lived together on East Eight Street. Another controversial aspect of this story puts Lee Oswald in Russia in 1960. Is this true? Could be.