George Sawtelle

David

Nice to know about 201 numbered files but more important is what's in these files. Any idea how to access the info in the files.

What about 117 vols of info on Oswald. Does that make sense? Would like to take a peek at some of those volumes.

David

This is valuable information. 

These 201 numbers refer to files stored using a CIA numbering, filing system. They are not 201 personnel files.Given that Oswald is listed opposite a 201 number does not mean that he worked for the CIA. If a 201 personnel file was prepared for Oswald and it is located or found then that would be positive proof that he worked for the agency.

Five individuals are listed to have their personnel files included under their 201 number or no 201 number. These individuals definitely work/worked for the CIA since only the CIA could have prepared their personnel file, not a third party.

The CIA plants false information in their files to throw researchers off. However I don't believe the information provided is false information.   

BTW according to the list there are 117 vols of info/documents/files on Oswald. That is the largest volume of info listed. I'm like you not an expert on 201 numbers but 117 volumes seems like a lot of information. The list was compiled in Jan 1, 1964. That's about 38/40 days after the assassination of the president.The CIA continues to say that they knew nothing of Oswald before the assassination. That they had no relationship with him before the assassination. They would have us believe that they collected 117 vols of info on Oswald in 38 days. Maybe they have an explanation but that's hard to swallow.

David

"I'm not too well versed with 201 files .."

Then shouldn't you include IMHO.

The CIA are master liars and deceivers. That's what they do for a living. They are experts at it.

I wouldn't believe anything from the CIA in voice or print. Just like the Warren Commission.

They have a knack for changing history. They say a 201 file is a personality file (hahahahahah). They say they have 201 NUMBERS on Meyer Lansky and many others. Maybe 201 numbers but not 201 files. 

Ron

Paz didn't ask "what is a 201 file"? She asked and I paraphrase ... if a 201 file is opened on someone are they CIA?

Given the information provided by David the answer would be yes.

But we really don't need the information David provided.

All we need to know is that all employees who work for the US government have a 201 file prepared for them. Since CIA agents are US government employees naturally a 201 file is prepared for them. (IOWs, Oswald had a 201 file and therefore he worked for the federal government either for the CIA, the Navy or the FBI or all three.)

I know what a 201 file is. But I did not say anything about what it is. Strictly for the purpose of answering the question I do not disagree with Jim, David or Larry.

Paz

Reading the info provided by David, if all agents have a 201 file, then whoever has a 201 file must be an agent. Agent meaning CIA agent.

One step further is ALL FEDERAL EMPLOYEES HAVE A 201 FILE. CIA agents are federal employees so that is why they all have 201 files.

I hope that answers your question.  

Jim

"LBJ got his Vietnam war buddy to endorse ... ". LBJ defered to Ike on Vietnam.

Eisenhower managed the Vietnam War. All major decisions, from troop levels to bombing campaigns were made by Eisenhower. On Vietnam LBJ was a yes man.

Read excerpts of "Dwight Eisenhower and American Foreign Policy in the 1960's An American Lion in Winter" by Richard Filipink on the internet.

David

In you're haste to make JVB (and me) look like idiots you forgot to date the info you posted on Matrigel.

Was Matrigel in existence in 1963? If it wasn't in existence in 1963 .....................

Paul

I know a little about Pamela's experience with JVB from reading her posts on the issue.

Well, you've conceded that it's possible to transport the bio-weapon as described by JVB.

The bag, thermos, banana and crackers were camouflage that was designed to fool Mexican inspectors who would inspect the bag at the border. Thus, the transport mechanism was by design and as such I wouldn't consider it silly.

 The effects of temperature, osmosis and the banging of the cells against the glass container of the thermos as described by Andrej are silly.

However pH could be a concern but it depends on the rate of reaction during the digestion process. I would think that JVB would calculate the rate and decided it was too slow and that the replenish of the medium would be in time to dilute the acid in the thermos before it killed the cancer cells.

Ron

The osmosis problem is based on Oswald feeding crackers to the cancer cells.

The crackers are for camouflage, to make it seem that the package in the blue bag is lunch.

Pamela and Ron

Do you have evidence that JVB and Haslem invented the story about the thermos?

Andrej told us why it doesn't make sense shouldn't you? And why is it silly? Or perhaps Ron would like to explain? Or are both of you going to fall back on Andrej's explanation?

Pamela

Why does it sound silly? Explain

All interested parties

The temperature of the medium will remain stable because of the thermos.

The pH will increase but not to the point that the cells will die. The medium should be replaced periodically.

As far as mechanical shaking, are we to believe that biological cultures can't be moved from place to place in a automobile? Within a large city that is how cells are moved.

Crackers are not used to replenish the medium. Only sugar. No problem with osmosis.

The medium is to be changed periodically. A second thermos will carry sterile medium which will be used to replenish the dirty medium. Oswald and the cuban techs have been trained to replenish the medium. Smell will not be a problem.

Andrej has greatly overestimated the problems with delivery of the cells.

The cells in the cancer cocktail are not normal cancer cells. These cells have been engineered, bio-engineered, to act aggresively and rapidly. These cells are basically superman cancer cells. If the human protective shield, our immune system, is breached through radiation this bio-engineered cancer cocktail will do as JVB says it will do, cause cancer in the human body.

Andrej

In the lab the cancer thrives in cultures. The thermos simulate the cultures. Oxygen is released into the medium by chemicals, nutrients (sugar) provide the food for the cells and replacement of medium periodically gets rid of the waste. pH can be established before the medium is placed in the thermos. The pH will probably change but the change will be within a tolerable range for survival of the cells. Osmolality??????? 

What am I missing? 

Pamela

Vindicated Oswald? 

She's tried to vindicate him now and very few believe her. Nothing she would say to Garrison in 1967 would have vindicated Oswald. Coming forward in 1967 would have placed her family in jeopardy and herself in the crosshairs, something she was trying to avoid.

Andrej

Who cares who brought it up.

THE FACT IS CANCER CELLS CAN SURVIVE OUTSIDE THE HUMAN BODY IF GIVEN ENOUGH OXYGEN, NUTRIENTS AND WASTE ELIMINATION. 

So Oswald could have transported the cancer weapon in the thermos.

Andrej

Nitrogen, either liquid or solid, is not needed to preserve the cancer outside the body.

Cancer cells can survive outside the human body as long as they are kept in a well-aerated liquid medium containing all the nutrients they need and the medium is replaced regularly to get rid of waste products.

According to JVB, Oswald was given a new batch of cancer cells in Houston which gave the cancer cells two more days of shelf life. One day from NO to Houston and then two days from Houston to Mexico City. Did not need to replace the medium until Mexico City.

I provided an article that indicates low level radiation can suppress the immune system. I think you are correct 100 rem is too much radiation for a x-ray machine. It's more like one rem. I would consider 1 rem low level radiation.

David

Please wait a minute. You're all over the place.

JVB says three days after Oswald's trip to Clinton with Shaw and Ferrie, she travelled to Jackson with Oswald. If the trip to Clinton ocurred on 29 Aug 1963 then her trip to Jackson was about 31 Aug 1963-1 Sep 1963. She has a good memory.

Her proof for the trip are Mary Morgan and McGeehee.

David

JVB and Oswald visited Jackson on 31 Aug 1963. The article provided indicates most of the sightings of Oswald were in Oct 1963, but nothing on 31 Aug 1963. It's possible he could have been in Jackson with JVB.

David and Pamela

Asst DA Sciamba who worked for Garrison interviewed Mary Morgan on June 3, 1967. Mary said she saw a young lady in the car driven by Oswald from her porch.

David

I believe McGeehee FIRST testified at the Shaw trial that he saw a young lady in the car. Years later testifying before the HSCA he must have changed his testimony. I believe his first testimony is accurate. There seems to be more of a conflict in testimony, not a rebuttal.

Mary Morgan saw the young lady, not Reeves Morgan. Of course Reeves Morgan would say he didn't see the young lady because he didn't. Mary Morgan told Asst DA Sciamba that she saw a young lady in the car. Nothing about Mary Morgan's testimony has been debunked simply because Mary Morgan was not interviewed by the HSCA.

I think it best you change the check mark to a question mark.

BTW, there is nothing small about your Mexico City rebuttal.

Andrej

I discussed with you some issues you had with the bio-weapon ... 

1. transportation of the cancer cells. You did not answer what I posted about transporting cancer cells in nitrogen. In her book, JVB said Oswald carried the cancer cells in nitrogen.

2. low level radiation and it's effect on the immune system. I cited an article which indicated levels as low as 100 rem could negatively  effect the immune system. You never answered. 

David, 

I should have said Jackson, not Clinton.

Debunk the sightings of JVB and Oswald in Jackson, info given by Mary Morgan and McGeehee. 

Pamela,

I believe JVB's basic story ... that she and Oswald worked on a bio-weapon to kill Castro.

Her story in between the bio-weapon work is not important to me.

JVB was in Clinton with Oswald. What she was doing in Clinton is crucial to the bio-weapon work.

THAT IS IMPORTANT. Whether someone gave her a glass, where she stayed after she was evicted, that she may have sent in the wrong IRS form, that she said Kancun instead of Cancun ... etc, etc, etc, is not important. 

But you don't seem to get it. You are worried more about whether I believe the small stuff, the gossip and you don't care about Oswald-JVB in Clinton.

David,

Shouldn't we be inquiring about the young lady seen with Oswald in Clinton? Because she certainly existed (based on Mary Morgan and McGeehee both of Clinton). And what were Oswald and the young lady doing in Clinton?

These are the important questions ... not if Anna Lewis met Oswald in 1962 or 1963, with Anna trying to remember an event that happened about 40 years earlier (or possibly she met the other Oswald while the one who Ruby killed was in Minsk) ... not the IRS forms ... not where JVB stayed after she was evicted. That's small stuff which won't help us find the killers of JFK.

However the episodes in Clinton will bring us closer to the truth about who killed JFK.    

Pamela

Eventually all evidence went through the FBI. I believe there were more sightings of Oswald and JVB but the FBI filed them in the waste basket.