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W. Niederhut

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  1. Well, I must have missed Ben's alleged "answers" to my questions (above.) That seems to happen frequently here in "debates" with Ben-- about Prouty, January 6th, 9/11, or what have you. The contrary evidence and rebuttals are routinely ignored, and the erroneous thesis is simply re-posted. The purchase of the Zapruder film by C.D. Jackson, and reversed stills published in Life magazine, are one example among many of the fact that the cover up of JFK's assassination entailed a sophisticated, high-level psy op. Other examples are the pre-planned newspaper articles with photos of Oswald holding a rifle-- to immediately establish control of the false "Lone Nut" narrative. When Col. Fletcher Prouty picked up a newspaper in Christchurch, New Zealand shortly after JFK's murder, he readily recognized the professionally-managed CIA psy op framing Oswald as the crazy lone assassin-- who had not even been charged with a crime at that point. Can anyone really argue with a straight face that the 58 year CIA psy op covering up JFK's murder has not been carefully and aggressively orchestrated by powerful people working with our mainstream media? How can that possibly be evidence of a "small scale" assassination op in Dallas? The latest examples, among thousands, were the ridiculous hit pieces in the Daily Beast and Washington Post (by Sonny Bunch) about Oliver Stone's new movie, JFK Revisited. Come on, man... What planet are we living on?
  2. Ben, Thanks for sharing this off topic information. I guess I'll say it for the umpteenth time, then take a break from this overly redundant thread. Prouty was, in fact, an important primary source historical witness of CIA special ops and Pentagon activities prior to and during the JFK administration-- the chief Joint Chiefs liaison to the CIA for special ops. Comprende? He had worked with Ed Lansdale for years, and was intimately familiar with Lansdale's work for the CIA as one of Allen Dulles's favorite "great scenario" black ops/psy ops experts. He wasn't merely a "conspiracy theorist" writing a speculative book about the Dallas op-- as claimed in the CIA disinformation on the internet, including the heavily-edited Prouty article on Wikipedia.
  3. How do you explain the pre-arranged, skillfully orchestrated psy op throughout the U.S. and international media that was launched on 11/22/63-- before Oswald was ever charged with a crime? The deployment of fake Secret Service agents in Dealey Plaza, and confiscation of cameras? The confiscation and scrubbing of evidence-- including JFK's body and the limo? Henry Luce and C.D. Jackson's purchase and sequestration of the Zapruder film? The role of known CIA asset and Dallas mayor Earl Cabell in the motorcade and post-assassination public relations? Aside from the details of the hit, the assassination was, obviously, a complex psy op, orchestrated on a very high level by people involved with the mainstream media.
  4. Ben, Prouty was a Deep State whistle blower who has been the target of a CIA smear campaign for many years-- the same type of disinformation campaign that has been directed at Jim Garrison and Oliver Stone. That is why I object to vague, non-specific criticisms of Prouty's observations and commentaries about the CIA, Vietnam, and the JFK assassination-- especially from people who have seen the CIA disinformation on-line but haven't read Prouty's own books and commentaries. No one has posted any evidence here debunking Prouty's "hypothesis" that Ed Lansdale was involved on some level in the JFK assassination op. Prouty worked with CIA black ops expert Ed Lansdale for many years, and was intimately familiar with Lansdale's appearance and work. So, yes, I trust Prouty's identification of his long-time colleague Ed Lansdale in the Dealey Plaza photo. That isn't a "loose standard," IMO. Prouty was a rare, primary source historical witness. Also, there were a number of other first hand observations (besides the photo of Lansdale in Dealey Plaza) that led Prouty to suspect that his colleague Ed Lansdale was involved in the Dallas assassination op.
  5. Alternate reality is an accurate description of the Trumpster worldview in the U.S. today. It's about shared delusions and mass denial of reality, including the denial of science. https://theconversation.com/political-orientation-predicts-science-denial-heres-what-that-means-for-getting-americans-vaccinated-against-covid-19-165386
  6. Ben, 1) Ed Lansdale was in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63, as Prouty observed 30 years ago. John Newman and David Lifton also found some ex post facto evidence indicating that Lansdale was in Texas in November of 1963, following his "retirement" from the CIA/USAF to pursue "fun and games." Prouty pointed out years ago that Lansdale's comment about "fun and games" after his retirement was a code word for special ops. 2) Lansdale was a black ops favorite of Allen Dulles and Cabell-- based on his history with the CIA in the Phillippines and at Saigon Station. And let's cut through the forum denial about CIA involvement in the U.S. mainstream and social media. Prouty has been smeared by government propagandists and "cognitive infiltrators" for years because he blew the whistle on people involved in JFK's assassination. Why was General Ed Lansdale in Dealey Plaza? Those who knew him, say this man is Ed Lansdale. Photo taken Nov. 22, 1963.
  7. Matt, This is a non sequitur. I assume that we can all agree that Prouty was, in fact, a first hand participant observer of events within the Pentagon and the JFK administration in 1963 -- not some latter day "conspiracy theorist." So, my questions (above) are really about the specificity of Larry's criticisms, if any, of Col. L. Fletcher Prouty's observations and theories about the CIA, Vietnam, Lansdale, and the JFK assassination. Given the obvious history of orchestrated, on-line disinformation about Prouty during the past thirty years, impugning his reputation on vague, non-specific grounds is less than appropriate. Wouldn't you agree? Below: Allen Dulles, General Ed Lansdale, Gen Charles Cabell, and Nathan Twining
  8. Larry, Just to clarify, since your research and opinion carries a great deal of weight, what exactly are you referring to here as, "the grand conspiracy outlined in Prouty's hypothesis?" Which conspiracy? Which hypothesis? Are you referring to Prouty's "grand" theory (in The CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot to Assassinate JFK) that the JFK assassination was very possibly a coup d'etat by Cold War hawks to reverse NSAM 263 and escalate the war in Vietnam, rather than ending it, as JFK intended? Or Prouty's "grand" theory that, beginning in the 50s, Allen Dulles and the CIA had established a "secret team" of personnel from diverse government agencies, including the Pentagon, who reported to and worked for the CIA? Or Prouty's "Lansdale hypothesis," (outlined in his letter to Garrison) in which Prouty speculated that Ed Lansdale may have been used by Dulles in the Dallas assassination op? Thanks for clarifying.
  9. Well, Larry, as the saying goes, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Hopefully, researchers will eventually be able to clarify the merits of Prouty's "Lansdale Hypothesis." His observations about JFK, Vietnam, NSAM 263, and NSAM 273 were, certainly, a grand slam by a DoD whistle blower who was not a historian, per se, but a part of history. And I'm glad that you have acknowledged that Prouty's reputation has been unfairly impugned by those mysterious people on the internet who aggressively edit Wikipedia articles relating to Deep State ops. Why? Because some people, evidently, tend to think of you as an erstwhile Prouty detractor.
  10. Larry, Your point about the the assassination logistics-- the "trees" -- is well taken. But let's not overlook the forest for the trees. 1) Col. Fletcher Prouty was a rare, high-level Department of Defense official in 1963 who blew the whistle on a likely motive of people within the "military-industrial complex" for murdering President Kennedy-- i.e., to escalate the war on communism in Vietnam rather than ending it. In addition to his own writings and commentaries on the subject, he consulted directly with Jim Garrison and Oliver Stone-- two major pillars of the JFKA Truth movement. Were there any other high-level officials from the JFK administration who stepped forward? And the accuracy of Prouty's suspicions about the drafting of NSAM 263 and it's reversal by LBJ on 11/25/63 has now been corroborated by historical scholars -- e.g., Peter Dale Scott, John Newman, James DiEugenio, et.al. 2) Prouty has, obviously, been targeted for years by an orchestrated smear campaign. Let's all acknowledge that fact, rather than simply repeating the slander. It seems pretty obvious that he has been targeted precisely because he was a DoD whistle blower-- a man who knew too much, and lived to tell the story.
  11. Larry, You left out the central issue in your assessment of Prouty's theories about the CIA, Vietnam, and the JFK assassination. To wit, Prouty was mainly interested in the issues relating to the drafting of JFK's NSAM 263, (a process that Prouty was directly involved in as a co-author of the McNamara/Taylor Report) and it's alteration in the 11/21/63 Honolulu draft of NSAM 273, which LBJ signed on 11/25/63, at the behest of McGeorge Bundy. Motive. In fact, Prouty's speculations about the Dallas assassination logistics and the 112th were a minor, peripheral issue in his book about The CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot to Assassinate JFK. Prouty was also a high-level briefing officer in the Department of Defense in the early 60s and co-author of the Pentagon Papers and the McNamara/Taylor Report-- contrary to the claims by Ed Lansdale and the John McAdams propaganda insisting that Prouty was merely a pilot involved in arranging supplies for CIA special ops. Finally, you seem strangely silent about the orchestrated, lengthy smear campaign against Prouty-- at Wikipedia and elsewhere on the internet. Any thoughts about why certain people have been so invested in impugning Prouty's reputation?
  12. I'm posting some educational links for Greg Kooyman and others who have never read Prouty's books, and/or have been duped by the prevalent disinformation about Prouty on-line (including Wikipedia.) Proutypedia http://proutypedia.com/wiki/Main_Page Proutypedia was started in early 2014. It is owned by Len Osanic, who conducted a series of interviews with Col. L. Fletcher Prouty in the 1990s. Together with Prouty, Osanic created prouty.org, Prouty's official website, which Osanic still maintains. Reasons for Creation A high-level Pentagon official in the Eisenhower and Kennedy administrations, Colonel L. Flether Prouty came under fire in the 1970s for his voicing his suspicions that elements inside the United States Government were responsible for the death of John F. Kennedy and not Lee Harvey Oswald. As a result, Prouty was attacked by some as a ‘crackpot’[1], a judgment seemingly at odds with a distinguished career at the highest levels of the Pentagon. While associates such as Oliver Stone[2] defended Prouty in the 1990s when controversy again raged around the Kennedy assassination, saying that Prouty’s critics were involved in character assassination and attack journalism, attempts to marginalize Prouty and to minimize his credibility continued throughout the 1990s until the time of his death in 2001, when weak connections to an anti-semitic group were played up in the mainstream press in Prouty’s obituary - even though it was conceded that “Prouty himself never espoused such beliefs.”[1] On Wikipedia, the effort to marginalize Prouty continues today. Prouty’s biographical entry has been the site of a ten-year edit war, as result of which mention of Prouty’s own official website has been blocked from Wikipedia. Prouty’s entry on Wikipedia has been used at various times to present him in as unfavorable a light as possible using a set of smears and insinuations to confuse and frighten readers unfamiliar with Prouty's work. Far from being a ‘crackpot’, Prouty was in fact a decent, upright man who after his retirement shared his extensive first-hand experience and inside knowledge about clandestine operations during the Cold War with any who would listen. Proutypedia has been created as a resource for those interested in the life and views of Colonel Prouty as well as various claims made about him. Prouty will be of special interest to scholars of twentieth-century American history as a high Pentagon official who candidly discussed the operations of power in government behind the official facade, particularly when they assumed the form of clandestine operations. References ^ Jump up to: a b Theguardian.com "US officer obsessed by the conspiracy theory of President Kennedy's assassination" June 21, 2001 Jump up ^ Esquire Magazine "Esquire Letter: Stone Shoots Back" December 1991 External links Prouty.org The Col L. Fletcher Prouty's Reference Site Arlington Cemetery's Biography The Secret Team by L. Fletcher Prouty "The Guns of Dallas" by L. Fletcher Prouty
  13. LOL. Yes, it was quite traumatic to try to write my name in those little boxes on the standardized test forms only to find out that it didn't fit... 🤥
  14. Richard, This is simply not accurate. The real question is why people in the U.S. are still so astonishingly unaware of the high quality 9/11 research and analysis out there-- including people in the JFK assassination research community who know how effectively the U.S. government and mainstream media have covered up the truth about 11/22/63 for the past 58 years. Unfortunately, the quality 9/11 research and analysis has been both misrepresented and blacked out of the U.S. mainstream media-- as we have seen in the case of Spike Lee's new HBO documentary. I. The most scholarly scientific research has been done by the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth-- an organization comprised of more than a thousand accredited, professional architects and engineers, including academicians. These people are not uneducated kooks and conspiracy theorists. Is there anything comparable to the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth in the JFKA research community? https://www.ae911truth.org/ II. The 9/11 Best Evidence Consensus Panel is also an excellent scholarly site. https://www.consensus911.org/ III. Another accurate 9/11 website is 911research.wtc7.net. https://911research.wtc7.net/index.html IV. Professor David Ray Griffin of Claremont College has published a number of accurate, scholarly books and essays about 9/11. https://www.amazon.com/David-Ray-Griffin/e/B000APTCK4/ref=dp_byline_cont_pop_book_1 V. The free lance journalist and author Christoper Bollyn has been studying and publishing well-researched books and articles about 9/11 for the past 20 years. https://bollynbooks.com/ VI. The Sorbonne-educated French engineer and historian Laurent Guyenot has been a member of this Education Forum in the past. Guyenot has written some interesting books on the subject of 9/11, including From JFK to 9/11-- 50 Years of Deep State. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20624256-jfk-9-11
  15. Greg, I'll try one final time to engage you in an intellectually honest debate about Prouty and Lansdale. As for the ad hominem stuff, it's not my thing. (Incidentally, I use the moniker "W" here instead of "William" because my full name didn't fit in the box when I registered to join the Education Forum. That has been a life long problem, going back to my elementary school years.) IMO, your focus on that ARRB Prouty transcript is an old John McAdams propaganda technique to discredit Prouty's whistle blowing on the JFK assassination. It's a lawyer's trick based on a logical fallacy -- i.e., that discrediting minor, peripheral details in someone's testimony implies that everything else the witness or whistle blower says is, some how, also discredited. And, in Prouty's case, you don't even seem to know what he said about Lansdale, the CIA, Vietnam, and the plot to assassinate JFK. You have, apparently, never read The Secret Team, or The CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot to Assassinate JFK. And yet, you repeatedly presume to impugn Prouty's reputation, calling him an inventor of "fables." Why? As for your evidence, I already posted a detailed response to your CIA files about Prouty. You never responded to my rebuttals. To reiterate, your two CIA transcripts confirmed that Lansdale was a decorated, highly regarded CIA official in the Phillippines and at Saigon Station-- as Prouty described in detail. They also indicated that Helms and Harvey resented Lansdale's management of Operation Mongoose in 1962, and viewed him as inimical to CIA interests by October of 1963, (after JFK put the kibosh on anti-Castro black ops and Harvey was shipped off to Rome.) But your CIA files say nothing about Lansdale's relationship in 1963 with his old Company boss Allen Dulles, correct? If Dulles, Cabell, and Angleton were secretly running the JFK assassination op, how do you know that weren't using their black ops man Ed Lansdale-- as Prouty believed? Explain.
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