W. Niederhut

Absolutely. And it certainly looks like a number of Trump's flying monkeys in the "Deep State" were complicit in blocking an appropriate Capitol security response to the advanced intelligence about impending Trump mob violence on January 6th-- at the Pentagon, (Chris Miller, Charles Flynn?) Secret Service, (Murray, Ornato) DHS, (Chad Wolf) FBI, (Wray) and (?) within the command structure of the Capitol Police. Compare the lax Capitol security on January 6th to what Trump did in response to the largely peaceful George Floyd protests in D.C... Below: Trump's National Guard deployment for the George Floyd protest in D.C.

Based on my reading of Jim Hougan's book, Secret Agenda, and a number of previous commentaries on the subject by forum members here, I beg to differ with Pat Speer's (above) thesis that Watergate wasn't, essentially, a CIA op-- with a major assist by the CIA's mouthpiece at WaPo, Bob Woodward. (Apologies in advance, Pat, if I'm misinterpreting your position.) The burglars, obviously, weren't all the President's men. My question (above) was whether Nixon and Mitchell believed, before the Watergate burglary botch job, that CIA men like Hunt and McCord were actually assisting Nixon's re-election campaign (CREEP) with their dirty tricks expertise-- only to realize later that the CIA had double-crossed them and put them over a barrel. Here's a salient Peter Dale Scott reference on the subject of CIA motives for setting up Nixon in Watergate, from an old forum Secret Agenda thread, posted by Robert Montenegro in May of 2020. (Italics mine.) In Professor Peter Dale Scott's "The Road to 9/11: Wealth, Empire, and the Future of America", we find the following startling information about USN Lt. Woodward's boss, ADM. Moorer on pages 46-48: QUOTE — "...Other leaks of Nixon-Kissinger excesses in foreign policy, notably the December 1971 of the 'tilt toward Pakistan,' provoked frenzied investigation by the White House Plumbers. Eventually this investigation revealed that the source of the leak, navy yeoman Charles Radford, had been systematically stealing White House documents and passing them, via his navy superior, Admiral Robert Welander, to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS), Admiral Thomas Moorer. In retrospect, it seems clear that the primary JCS motive for conspiratorial spying on the White House was dislike of Nixon's and above all Kissinger's policies of detente and coexistence with the Soviet bloc and China. As historian Stanley Kutler wrote in his Wars of Watergate: 'Moorer bitterly remembered what he regarded as foolish and soft policies toward North Vietnam. His successor as chief naval operations, Admiral Elmo R. Zumwalt Jr., came close to accusing Nixon and Kissinger of treason and Kissinger of being a Soviet sympathizer'..." "...James McCord, the principle architect of the Watergate break-in, which was surely set up to be disclosed, expressed a paranoia about Kissinger that exceeded even that of Moorer and Zumwalt. In a newsletter he put out in the aftermath of Watergate, 'McCord put forward a right-wing conspiracy theory that the Rockefeller family was lunging for complete control over the government's critical national security functions, using the Council on Foreign Relations and Henry Kissinger as its surrogates.' McCord's mind-set is of interest not only because he was a principal conspirator in the Watergate break-in, but also because of his role as an Air Force Reserve colonel in an obscure program of the Office of Emergency Preparedness (the predecessor to FEMA). His group was responsible for contingency plans, 'in the event of a national emergency...for imposing censorship [and] preventive detention of civilian 'security risks,' who would be placed in military 'camps'..." "...Much more threatening to the presidency was probably the opposition of James Angleton, head of CIA counterintelligence. Angleton eventually came to "pronounce Kissinger 'objectively, a Soviet agent.' But Angleton had a more immediate reason to oppose Nixon after November 20, 1972, the day Nixon at Camp David notified Richard Helms he would be replaced as head of CIA. Helms and Angleton had been two of the last survivors of the Dulles "inner circle" within CIA..." — END QUOTE.

Yes, January 6th was a "Deep State" conspiracy, all right, but not the one that Ben and Tucker Carlson had in mind. 🤥

Has anyone else noticed the possible parallel between Roger Stone's Oath Keepers at the Capitol on January 6th and Roger Stone's Brooks Brothers Riot on 11/22/00 to block the Miami-Dade recount in the Bush Gore election? I'm going to raise the hypothesis that Roger Stone used the Oath Keepers to help lead the obstruction of the J6 election certification in the same way that he deployed the Brooks Brothers rioters to block a proper recount in Miami-Dade in 2000. Both riots were used to derail election outcomes. Tricky tricky. Another dirty trick by the old creepster from CREEP?

In addition to the censored Nixon-Helm's scene (available in the Director's Cut of Oliver Stone's film, Nixon) there is another key scene where Nixon says, "Just remember. If Dick Nixon is going down, EVERYONE is going down." Who was "everyone?" I need to go back and re-watch that film to remember the context of that remark, but I believe Nixon was talking to Al Haig about the apparent CIA plot to put him over a barrel with Hunt and McCord's bungled Watergate burglary. Question. Did Nixon possibly know before the Watergate burglary that CIA assets like Hunt, McCord, Sturgis, et.al., were assisting Mitchell and CREEP with their dirty tricks expertise -- only to later realize that he had, in fact, been double-crossed by Helms and the Company? I had the impression that Nixon had unsuccessfully threatened Helms and the CIA about "the Bay of Pigs thing" in order to stop the CIA from holding him over the Watergate barrel.

Steve, To be fair, Trump is defending an important precedent here-- the right of future Presidents to incite violent mob attacks on Congress in the event that they lose an election. 🤥

Here's a fairly comprehensive review from Media Matters today of the distorted coverage of the Congressional J6 hearings in the U.S. right wing media. It describes many of the erroneous talking points about the hearings that are being repeated in the M$M and amplified in the MAGA-verse by people who never watched the actual hearings. And it certainly explains why an astonishing 80% of Republicans in the recent Marist poll still don't believe that Trump was responsible for the J6 attack on Congress! I think that this is what Carl Bernstein was talking about when he said that Nixon probably would have survived Watergate if Fox News had existed in the 1970s. Right-wing media have been dismissing, downplaying, and attacking the January 6 hearings | Media Matters for America

The circumstantial evidence that Trump, Giuliani, et.al., conspired to obstruct the Congressional certification of Biden's Electoral College victory on January 6th is overwhelming. A 20 year felony. But is there sufficient evidence that Trump conspired to obstruct Congress on January 6th? Giuliani certainly bragged to Cassidy Hutchnson about the impending fireworks on January 6th. And Steve Bannon also bragged about the impending fireworks in a January 5th podcast.

And recall that Tito had pursued a dangerous course of non-alignment with Stalin and the Soviet Union. In fact, Stalin reportedly tried to assassinate Tito after 1948. There's an interesting book about the backstory of the Yugoslav-Soviet rift, by Tito's former Partisan associate, Milovan Djilas, called Conversations With Stalin (1961.) Under the circumstances, the Yugoslav government probably viewed De Mohrenschildt and his CIA/Gehlen associates as "the enemy of my enemy."

And we also get multiple nightly servings of spam from Ben's MAGA-verse on this thread. It's a convenient way to stay up-to-date on MAGA-verse tropes about Hunter Biden's laptop, Ray Epps, alleged "hearsay" theatrics in Congress, and "nasty women" like Hillary, Liz Cheney, and Kamala Harris. Some of Ben's 1,000+ posts remind me of that old line by Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jew Boys-- "Get your biscuits in the oven and your buns in the bed-- women's liberation is a-going to your head!"

So, Mark Meadows also continues to lie his ass off in the right wing media, while refusing to comply with a Congressional subpoena. I still don't understand why the guy hasn't been prosecuted by the DOJ for contempt of Congress.

Yes, especially when they've been willing to "testify" in the right wing media-- e.g., impugning Cassidy Hutchinson's reputation. We still need to hear sworn testimony from a number of key Trump J6 insiders, including Meadows, Giuliani, Flynn, Tony Ornato, and Brian Engel. And where is Mike Pence? The guy needs to put country before party and tell America what he witnessed.

Interesting stuff. Many White Russians, unfortunately, allied themselves with the N-a-z-i-s in 1942-- even some (future) hierarchs of the "White" Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR) that I know of. And many European aristocrats, including the Duke of Windsor, also initially viewed the N-a-z-i-s favorably, as a bulwark against Bolshevism-- as did the Dulles brothers and Union Bank President Prescott Bush.

Incredibly, six months later, Ben is still repeatedly posting about his Ray Epps/patriot purge "theory" of Trump's January 6th coup attempt -- while simultaneously tuning out and deflecting from the Congressional J6 evidence documenting Trump's central role in the coup attempt. If you do a forum search for "Ray Epps," (content and titles) Ben has well over 20 posts about Ray Epps during the past year-- mostly redundant. Last weekend's Marist poll found that 80% of Republicans still deny Trump's role in promoting and inciting his January 6th attack on the U.S. Congress. 68% of Fox News watchers in another recent poll still, apparently, blame "left wing" radicals for the January 6th attack on Congress. So, obviously, a substantial number of Republicans are still determined to blame Trump's J6 coup attempt on anyone but Donald Trump. And these are the same people who have tuned out the historic Congressional J6 hearings.

Ron, I just found my old post from 8/5/21. After the Gold Rush | Vanity Fair | September 1990

Ron, I had posted that story on the forum some time ago, from a September 1990 Vanity Fair interview of Ivana Trump, that Donald Trump used to keep a copy of Hitler's speeches on his nightstand-- which was all the more unusual since Trump was never in the habit of reading any books. https://www.majorityrules.org/2020/01/donald-trump-and-hitlers-speeches-my-new-order.html Last April, perhaps in a surge of Czech nationalism, Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler’s collected speeches, My New Order, which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed. Kennedy now guards a copy of My New Order in a closet at his office, as if it were a grenade. Hitler’s speeches, from his earliest days up through the Phony War of 1939, reveal his extraordinary ability as a master propagandist.

And you'd definitely make your horse a consul. 🤥 But hey, CB, I thought we were supposed to dispense with the snarky tr-oll-ing around here. Didn't you get the memo?

This story reminds me of Suetonius's account of the Roman Emperor Caligula wanting to make his horse a Consul of Rome. Trump would have been the first Medal of Honor recipient in American history who dodged the draft and never served in a war.Trump says he wanted to give himself Medal of Honor but was told it was ‘inappropriate’ ‘They wouldn’t let me do it’www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-honor-medal-turning-point-summit-b2130101.html July 24, 2022

Well, this is discouraging. A new Marist poll indicates that Trump supporters have largely tuned out the Congressional J6 hearings, and that the hearings have not moved the Trumplicon Denial needle into the Reality Zone. Jan. 6 committee has done little to sway Republicans: poll (axios.com) Excerpt Two out of five Republicans say what happened on Jan. 6, 2021 was a protest protected by the First Amendment, per the poll. Since December, the percentage of Republicans who call Jan. 6 an insurrection and a threat to democracy increased from 10% to 12% - a shift smaller than the margin of error of the survey. Fewer than one in five Republicans say Trump deserves a great or good deal of blame for what happened that day, compared with nine out of 10 Democrats and 57% of independents, according to the poll.

Joe, Your post about Trump's latest Arizona MAGA rally raises an important point about the recent history of this lengthy "56 Years" thread. Trump is still lying his ass off, and his fans still believe him, and repeat the lies. A number of people have been understandably critical of the recent "redundancy" of this thread-- the repetitious debates about Trump's January 6th coup attempt, and the ongoing denial of Trump's serious crimes by an estimated 25-30% of the U.S. population, etc. What I would point out is that the recent "redundancy" on this thread has mainly been the result of the repetition of lies by Trump's apologists on this forum-- taken largely from right wing media sources. Most recently, this repetition has taken the form of denying the damning J6 evidence presented in the Congressional hearings, and the repetition of the false GOP memes about J6 "hearsay" evidence and mere Congressional "theatrics." It's an example of the Goebbel-esque propaganda technique of repeating the lies until people believe they are true. Famous examples in modern American politics include T. Boone Pickens' Swift Boat Vet commercials attacking John Kerry in 2004, and the Fox/GOP Benghazi smear campaign against Hillary Clinton from 2012-16. What I would ask the forum is the question, "How should any society (or forum) respond to the repetition of lies that are destructive to the society itself-- e.g., to its ideals, public welfare, democratic institutions, etc." Is it better, more civil, to say nothing? To use humor? To repeat the truth? A RAND Corporation paper on the subject of countering propaganda argued that people need to respond to the repetition of lies technique by repeating the truth. Obama commented on this issue during his presidency by saying, "Our approach will be to repeat the truth until it finally sinks in." I see no evidence that Trump and his followers will cease repeating the lies, although it looks like Rupert Murdoch may finally be putting the kibosh on his longstanding Trumpaganda.

Kirk, Regarding Chris B's latest hissy fit, I was the one who suggested that I probably needed to "chill out" about the persistent Trumplicon denial of Trump's January 6th black op. Chris gleefully agreed, and wanted me to get involved in another one of his usual puerile pissing contests about it. My only advice for Chris is to get a monkeypox vaccine before it's too late. Meanwhile, I'm not surprised that our monster "56 Years" thread finally got booted off of the JFK boards. Ben is in for a shock when he wakes up in Thailand this evening to begin another busy day of MAGA-spamming the 56 Years thread, only to realize that we've been banished to an obscure side board! 🤥

I probably need to chill out about this, but is anyone else around here really fed up with this pervasive Trumplicon dishonesty and denial about January 6th? It seems to go hand-in-hand with the incessant anti-Biden smear campaign in the right wing media. The anti-Biden smear campaign reminds me of the incessant Fox News smear campaign against Obama from 2008-17. In Obama's case, the smear was about being black, Kenyan, an alleged Muslim, Marxist, etc. In Biden's case, it's about being elderly, allegedly demented, having a bicycle accident, allegedly being a pedophile, etc. It's Karl Rovian slime. ‘It’s a kangaroo court’: in key state, Trump backers dismiss January 6 hearings | Wisconsin | The Guardian

Huh? Do you and Ben ever get anything right? You've got the glib, self-assured jive talking down, but all of your half-baked "theories" are nothing burgers-- usually based on obscure marital records and islands (Gibson, Epstein, etc.) In Ben's case, most of his daily spam comes straight from the MAGA-verse-- like his absurd notion that the Congressional J6 Committee hasn't come up with any damning evidence about Trump's coup plot! Ben's daily talking points here directly mirror things I hear from Trumplicons on less scholarly forums-- like the false Trumplicon memes about "hearsay" evidence and "theatrics."

Cliff stopped posting on the forum in 2020, if I recall correctly. No one seems to know what happened to him.

Steve Bannon found guilty in Jan. 6 contempt of Congress trial - The Washington Post