Greg Parker

Bill, Did Ruth say this? And did she say it happened at her place? Reason I ask is because it is a story told by the current owner of the N. Beckley boarding house in relation to Oswald and her brothers. But the reality is that the Mr Lee she knew was Herbert Leon Lee, not Lee Harvey Oswald, who never actually lived there. If Ruth Paine has been spinning the same yarn, that would be very interesting, indeed.

Tommy, No. I use Bourbon. Sometimes Vodka. It depends. No, Bullet proof. Maybe.

But you apparently have right here in this thread, stating what you would have definitely done, but then deciding maybe you wouldn't have. Fine to have such inner-ruminations, but they did not need to be shared. Though it hardly matters that they were. No damage was done to any living or eternal soul as a result of it. Unfold your arms and relax a little, Ian.

Hmmm. May as well read the IChing or tea leaves. I prefer Tarot. You drew the Two of Books. This depicts the Two Faces of Tommy. The Geezer with the hammer is the Tommy of Today - apparently right down to dress sense. He thinks what someone said can be hammered into shape for his purposes. The Old Tommy - who is really the Young Tommy, on the other hand, is far wiser. He knows that whilst money doesn't grow on trees, books do, but that they should not be consumed until they are ripe. Unfortunately for Old Tommy (recalling that he is really the Young Tommy) by the time they are ripe, they are beyond his reach. Alas, both Tommys are in a bad place. Greg, Great post! Very witty! And artistic! And poetic in a free-verse-kind-of-way! But why so much animosity? Don't want the ONI to be involved in the assassination of JFK? Or you do, but only on your terms? Something that will fit in with your book, won't contradict it? --Tommy There is no animosity. You are simply reading into someone's muddled statement what fits with your own apparent conceptualizations of reality. The cards are never wrong.

The museum does not have the needed equipment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_picture_film_scannerThere are not many places that have the right equipment for what is needed here. Groden is not even a last resort. Your understanding of what is happening is out of date. Jim diEugenio is now making inquiries on our behalf. Good luck with the PoA. Despite my skepticism, all reasonable efforts are welcome.

You got the big Kahuna himself this time, Tommy. The Devil is the 15th card in the deck. It boils down to 6 numerologically speaking and 6 is one third of His number. So you were being a little bit devilish when you invoked my name. Not too much. Just a little bit. The Devil himself is half goat. Appropriate as He is everyone's favorite Scapegoat. Who are scpaegoating here, Tommy? Don't make me draw another card to find out. Dear Greg, Go Find yourself. --Tommy Are experienced interviewers / interrogators of retired long-time ONI special agents who are suspected, by those interviewers / interrogators, of being complicit in the assassination of an American President expected to use their intuition in said interviews / interrogations? Yes? Well, what about inexperienced interviewers / interrogators, then? I'd highly recommend the Reid Interrogation Technique. Even the most inept of interviewers can be transformed into Will Fritz using this system, or your money back! Confessions guaranteed! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_technique And as an added bonus, when using this system, you get to use all the intuition you want in creating your very scenario!

You got the big Kahuna himself this time, Tommy. The Devil is the 15th card in the deck. It boils down to 6 numerologically speaking and 6 is one third of His number. So you were being a little bit devilish when you invoked my name. Not too much. Just a little bit. The Devil himself is half goat. Appropriate as He is everyone's favorite Scapegoat. Who are scpaegoating here, Tommy? Don't make me draw another card to find out.

Hmmm. May as well read the IChing or tea leaves. I prefer Tarot. You drew the Two of Books. This depicts the Two Faces of Tommy. The Geezer with the hammer is the Tommy of Today - apparently right down to dress sense. He thinks what someone said can be hammered into shape for his purposes. The Old Tommy - who is really the Young Tommy, on the other hand, is far wiser. He knows that whilst money doesn't grow on trees, books do, but that they should not be consumed until they are ripe. Unfortunately for Old Tommy (recalling that he is really the Young Tommy) by the time they are ripe, they are beyond his reach. Alas, both Tommys are in a bad place.

There's nothing to be ashamed of in not knowing that Sorrells was there, and trying to cover up your lack of knowledge in this instance. Nobody knows it all, and we are all here to learn and educate. after all. The desperation for victory shows in such minuscule and erroneous nitpicks with the accompanying avoidance of substance.

The system is taught to local, state police and federal agencies including FBI and CIA. It is also taught in the military. You know as well as I do that I was referring only to those who wrote published reports. The WCR hints that there were OTHER reports, but that it was publishing only some. Who knows what happened to the unpublished ones or if they included any by Sorrels?

You have no proof of that. I'm sorry, but the changes can be seen in the documentary evidence. "corrected" would be a better choice of word. Nope. A correction would be like any other correction. It would be made in the document that was in "error" - or it would be noted in the new document that this information adjusts, supersedes/corrects previous versions. The alibi was tweaked specifically so it could be defeated. You know something else? The only person not guilty of attempting to put words in Oswald's mouth was the only person sitting in that room (apart from Oswald) who was not trained in the Reid Interrogation System.

You have no proof of that. I'm sorry, but the changes can be seen in the documentary evidence.

No James, but you're clearly going for a fast termination to the new, refreshing proposals by Dr. Caufield. LHO's USSR experience is still best explained by Victor Marchetti, and the USA Intelligence strategy of sending young FAKE defectors to the USSR. It makes sense that LHO was part of that group -- as young as he was. It also makes sense, however, that LHO dropped out of that program, to the chagrin of the US Intelligence community and the Marines (who downgraded his discharge). LHO didn't have the income that Howard Hunt or David Morales enjoyed -- because he didn't get the job. Oswald was no more than a witting or unwitting asset. He wasn't applying for a job. Yet it seems that LHO always tried to get that job back again What job would that be? -- but being less than sophisticated politically he imagined that working with Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, David Ferrie, Ed Butler, Carlos Bringuier, Jack S. Martin, Fred Crisman, Tom Beckham, Gerry Patrick Hemming, Loran Hall, Larry Howard and all these Cuban Exiles -- was somehow going to get him back into the good graces of US Intelligence. Ruth Paine tell you that? That "he imagined"? As Tommy Graves rightly said -- no bona fide Intelligence Agent would ever have become a Patsy in an assassination. He wasn't an agent - but that statement is still crap. It was precisely because LHO was a wanna-be that he was in a position to become the Patsy of those people he thought were his FRIENDS. No wannabe's. He was by then an FBI informant. But you're right about his friends helping to set him up... especially those in Irving... As Dr. Jeff Caufield said, I think rightly, insofar as LHO had anything to do with the JFK Killers, he had already lost his virtue. Yet LHO just handed them his rifle. The book is a great resource on the Right. That's a nuance your hasty treatment of Caufield doesn't address, James. Regards, --Paul Trejo

Jim, 1. I disagree it was impossible to teach himself Russian. This discounts the possibility that he had Aspergers. Many people with Aspergers acquire languages by seeming osmosis. However, if Marina is to be believed and he spoke with a Baltic accent, he either partially learned by listening to recordings of someone with that accent, or by live lessons with someone having that accent. People with Aspergers are also noted for acquiring accents and sounding "native". 2. The oft-cited executive session memo about the Monterrey school is actually and very specifically about his ability with Spanish, not Russian. Having re-read that memo, this is where Dr. Caulfield is referring to work colleagues in Minsk making fun of his ability with the language. Except it was not his Russian they were poking fun at (as suggested by the author) - it was his Spanish. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1328&relPageId=68&search=monterey_and%20spanish 3. I agree his test results are played down by a lot of people. The results were not that bad. 4. At the risk of upsetting Tommy, the Quinn episode is a red flag that should have been explored to the nth degree by someone way before now. I am absolutely satisfied it had to do with coming missions for one or both behind the Iron Curtain. 5. Obviously I agree. He was recruited by Ferrie into what most definitely could be described as a false defector program. I believe he also performed at least one other task there (most likely more than one). That will be in the next book and it is an entirely new twist on things. I promise it will be supported by evidence from an impeccable source.

Good point Greg. What's good about it, James? It was Fritz who added the bit about Oswald saying he was having lunch, not Bookhout. If there's physivcal evidence for Bookhout "altering" anything I would like to see it, Can ANYBODY show me these altered notes? Even if he did alter anything, that is aperfectly legitimate practice as long as any alteration is still telling the truth. I would possibly prefer the word "corrected" Fritz saying he didn't take notes during the interrogations is also perfectly valid. He may have created the notes from memory after the interrogations or he took notes from his colleague Bookhouse which would have been a perfectly legitimate thing to do . Notes being similar to Fritz's notes means absolutely nothing, Again, I'm not out to reinvent the wheel. I refer you to http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354&p=277440 in which Sean demonstrates pretty comprehensively that Fritz's notes were cribbed from Bookhout. It is a perfectly legitimate action to alter copied cribbed notes written by a partner, and also to add new information to them, as long as the truth. is maintained. Alteration of the original Bookhaus notes did not happen. What did happen was that Oswald's alibi was changed so that it could be defeated. Kind of like what you're attempting with your pieces of straw here.

Let me try and clear this up about Oswald's ability with Russian. What Dr. Caulfield said was that There is no evidence that the Marines taught Oswald to speak Russian (true) That he scored "poorly" in a Russian proficiency test (subjective - from memory, he passed, though only barely - and possibly deliberately so) That his co-workers in Minsk laughed at his poor Russian-speaking ability (can't comment as I'm unaware of the evidence here - however, when in hospital in Moscow, the doctor noted that he appeared not to be able to speak the language at all. This has always sounded to me like the old trick. Pretend you can't speak the local lingo so those around you speak openly in the belief you can't understand. In that way, you can pick up all sorts of information you may not get otherwise) That Marina initially thought he was from Estonia whose language is derived from a different base (what Marina said in testimony was "He spoke with accent so I assumed he was maybe from another state, which is customary in Russia. People from other states do speak with accents because they do not speak Russian. They speak different languages." When asked if she meant another Russian state, she replied "Yes, like Estonia, Lithuania, something like that." The next question she got was the key question: did she suspect he was an American, to which she replied "No, not at all." All of this information indicates that Oswald was selective while in the Soviet Union as to whom he showed his true language ability with. It also indicates he was learned the language from listening to someone from one of the Baltic satellites, rather than the mother country. On the subject of where Estonian language came from - it is part of Uralic language family - or languages from the Urals. Specifically, it belongs to the Finnish branch - but where it differs is that does have Russian language influences. So does it have a different base? Yes. But that stated without noting the Russian influence could be unintentionally misleading. The main point coming from Marina's testimony however is, that he spoke the language so well, she could not detect he was a Westerner) All-in-all, I don't find any real errors of fact in what is presented in the book. The only problem I see is that it only gives some of the facts.

Good point Greg. What's good about it, James? It was Fritz who added the bit about Oswald saying he was having lunch, not Bookhout. If there's physivcal evidence for Bookhout "altering" anything I would like to see it, Can ANYBODY show me these altered notes? Even if he did alter anything, that is aperfectly legitimate practice as long as any alteration is still telling the truth. I would possibly prefer the word "corrected" Fritz saying he didn't take notes during the interrogations is also perfectly valid. He may have created the notes from memory after the interrogations or he took notes from his colleague Bookhouse which would have been a perfectly legitimate thing to do . Notes being similar to Fritz's notes means absolutely nothing, Again, I'm not out to reinvent the wheel. I refer you to http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354&p=277440 in which Sean demonstrates pretty comprehensively that Fritz's notes were cribbed from Bookhout.

It was Rousell who nominated the language as the reason for the date. If you want to believe she flew across the country for a blind date with a younger Marine whom everyone allegedly thought was an oddball, and had no particular reason for doing so, that's up to you. I'm sure there were plenty of Russian speaker's in New York she could have dated though...

You're simply wrong about everything being speculative. One example, The first item on my list: Oswald's alibi was altered by Bookhout, with Fritz cribbing from Bookhout's alterationThe first part is NOT speculation. Going from memory, so there may have been more than one change, but in the combined Hosty-Bookhout report, it simply noted that Oswald had seen Junior and another employee re-enter the building. In Bookhout's later solo report, this gets changed to a claim of having lunch with Junior. This was easy to refute. They simply asked Junior if he had lunch with Oswald - the answer was "no" - so there goes the alibi. Fritz claimed he took no notes during the interrogations. Yet notes later turned up. Those were very likely rough notes copied from Bookhout. Sean simply put the notes beside Bookhout's report and noted how well it all matched up. Absolute proof? No. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt? I think so.

Speculative "items" as you call them, all pointing the blame at someone is not proof, I honestly don't understand how you don't get this. The blame? It's not me that's not getting it.

Proven... to a legal degree of certainty -you are correct - is still no guarantee of factuality. It is however, what a reasonable person would accept as fact, short of absolute proof. All you are demonstrating is your refusal to act like a reasonable person. My conclusion is worth repeating so that you get a second chance to let it sink in: All signposts point to one man. That is what has been proven. Yougetitnow? The list of items all point to one man. All those items may be wrong in pointing to one man - but as it stands - that's where they do point.

Jim, it would be great if someone could track Ms Quin's career from those two dates onward. Maybe an FOIA request to State and CIA? I'll apologize to Paul if she didn't end up behind the Iron Curtain somewhere... And YES. Neither of her dates were simple blind dates, or based upon innocent mutual interest in the Russian language.

Joan is just flat out wrong here. The two men were in Donovan's RESERVES unit in 1963. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=50080&relPageId=2&search=%22john_moretti%22 The Santa Ana period in question is when both LHO and Donovan returned from SEA until Oswald's discharge. Everything Donovan said post Warren Commission was a fabrication. The dissembling was incredible and all aimed at bolstering the Epstein/Angleton garbage that the Soviets recruited Oswald in Japan. Don't know why some authors took him seriously...

From Part 2 of Volume 2 of Lee Harvey Oswald's Cold War. There are citations for this section. However, they do nor copy and paste very well, so are not included here. ------------------- Donovan remembered a lot about Oswald. But only from the Santa Ana period. He remembered that another enlisted man (Henry Rousell) arranged for Oswald to date the man’s aunt – a Pan Am stewardess from New York named Rosaleen Quinn (though Donovan claimed not to recall her name even when prompted by counsel for the commission). Rosaleen told Donovan (during another arranged date by Rousell) that Oswald spoke Russian and that he was “a bit of an oddball”. Rousell had set his aunt up with Oswald apparently on the basis that Rosaleen had completed a Berlitz course in Russian language and Rousell had known of Oswald’s ability with the language. According to Rosaleen, Oswald spoke Russian better than she did herself. We are not informed as to why John Donovan was “fixed up” with the stewardess after the date with Oswald, though it could be guessed that it had more to do with his time at Georgetown University School of Foreign Service than whether or not he had a GSOH or liked Pina Coladas. Ms. Quinn’s Berlitz private tutoring in Russian for more than a year was in preparation to take the State Department Foreign Service exam. The more one looks at Ms. Quinn, the more one sees a CIA agent or asset. In 2011-12, ABC aired the series Pan Am, a look at the lives of a Pan Am flight crew in the early 1960s. Though fictional, it was based on solid archival research by a former Pan Am employee, Nancy Hult Ganis. One of the most controversial aspects of the series was in showing a relationship between the airline and the CIA, and more specifically between the CIA and members of flight crews. In fact, some of the research conducted by Ganis included finding airline employees being involved with “State Department operations [involving] behind-the-scene missions in dangerous locations.” Other former flight attendants interviewed in the wake of the series concurred that the show portrayed CIA involvement with the airline and some employees in a “realistic” fashion. The State Department is common cover for CIA agents. Ms. Quinn traversing the continent where she would have a blind date with a young man about to become a “turncoat” while she herself was probably preparing for some sort of covert work behind the Iron Curtain confounds our trust. The overall picture snaps into focus even further when we consider that two members of Donovan’s unit were CIA employees, and both gave their employer advance notice that Donovan would be contacting to advise about Oswald’s time at Santa Ana. The two men were John Moretti, who was a New Supervisor Orientation (NSO) – a Human Resources position - the same field and the same (hidden) employer as Sylvia Hoke. The other was Major A.F. Boland whose name was redacted in the original document release. Donovan duly phoned the CIA on December 1, 1963. He assured the officer who handled his call that he had not yet spoken to either the FBI or the Secret Service. He also pointed out he was employed by the FBI prior to joining the Marines; a fact missing from background information routinely sought and obtained by the commission of those giving testimony. The very next day Donovan was talking to the media. ------------------------------

Yeah, sure, Greg. You keep saying that week after week. It's carnival barker writing. If you haven't said anything yet, the likelihood that you have ANYTHING substantial is mighty slim. Regards, --Paul Trejo Like you're an expert on anything slim? My point is that you haven't said anything yet, and its been weeks, and you keep promising to "make toast" of Ruth Paine. We're waiting. Are we waiting in vain? Are you really only going to do what James DiEugenio did in his Destiny Betrayed (2012), and simply echo Carol Hewett's work from the 1990's? Regards, --Paul Trejo Tut tut! Patience. I do hear that a hearty serve of deep fried hog snout is good comfort food. And maybe wash it down with cherry cola and 'ludes to settle those nerves.