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Yes, superb photo. Thanks for posting Robin.

Trygve

Yes, thank you Robin, great detail.

EDIT:: Wonder if this person (pink dot Altgen7, inset) is standing on this (the pink arrow) thing?

Edited by John Dolva
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Yes, superb photo. Thanks for posting Robin.

Trygve

Yes, thank you Robin, great detail.

EDIT:: Wonder if this person (pink dot Altgen7, inset) is standing on this (the pink arrow) thing?

__________________________

John,

Great observation. Wonder what those things are? Must have been fairly flat on top if a person could stand on top of one like that. Wonder why the guy didn't just "elbow" his way into a good vantage spot along the railing like the other spectators??? Hmmm.... Maybe he needed to elevate himself to make himself more visible to all of the shooters' "helpers" who were waiting for some sort of signal from him?

On page 23 of Crossfire, Jim Marrs says in so many words that Ronald B. Fischer, a Dallas County auditor, was standing on the SW corner of Elm and Houston less than ten minutes before the motorcade passed by and looked up and noticed the head and shoulders of a man (wearing a light sportshirt or a white T-shirt) in a window of the TSBD and that the man was "surrounded by boxes and was staring 'transfixed,' not toward the approaching motorcade, but IN THE DIRECTION OF THE TRIPLE UNDERPASS." [emphasis added; pardon my "shouting"] I submit, John, that the guy that you've pointed out to us on the Triple Underpass could have been a conspirator's "signalman" (pardon the pun; how ironic was it if the guy was "dressed up" as a railroad worker?--wow), helping to coordinate "activities" (along with DCM and/or TUM) and a "helper/coordinator" in the TSBD for the shooter/shooters in the west window of the TSBD, the south grassy knoll, the north grassy knoll (nort end of the Underpass, actually, etc, etc. Maybe the guy you've pointed out was using simple hand signs (and/or the act of getting up on the "thing" itself) to communicate "All systems, Go!" to his co-conspirators....

--Thomas

P.S. Great view of the recessed area at the southern end of the Underpass, the steam pipes, the "boxes," etc. If I remember correctly, eyewitness "Tosh" Plumlee and his colleague thought that the fatal shot came from a mirror-image recessed area at the other end of the Underpass.

Thanks.

__________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Yes, superb photo. Thanks for posting Robin.

Trygve

Yes, thank you Robin, great detail.

EDIT:: Wonder if this person (pink dot Altgen7, inset) is standing on this (the pink arrow) thing?

__________________________

John,

I think you're right. Nice observation. Wonder what those things are-- lights? Must have been fairly flat on top if a person could stand on top of one like that. Also wonder why the guy didn't just "elbow" his way into a good vantage spot along the railing like the other onlookers? Hmmm.... Maybe he needed to elevate himself to make himself more visible to the shooters' helpers who were waiting for some sort of signal from him?

On page 23 of Crossfire, Jim Marrs says in so many words that Ronald B. Fischer, a Dallas County auditor, was standing on the SW corner of Elm and Houston less than ten minutes before the motorcade passed by and looked up and noticed the head and shoulders of a man (wearing a light sportshirt or a white T-shirt) in a window of the TSBD and that the man was "surrounded by boxes and was staring 'transfixed,' not toward the approaching motorcade, but in the direction of the Triple Underpass." [emphasis added] I submit, John, that the guy that you've pointed out to us on the Triple Underpass could have been one of the conspirators' "signalmen" (pardon the pun; how ironic was it if the guy was "dressed up" as a railroad worker?--wow), as, most likely, was DCM and/or TUM. Maybe the guy you've pointed out was using simple hand signs (and/or the act of getting up on the thing itself) to communicate "All systems, Go!" to his co-conspirators.... All the more reason for him to be standing behind the guys crowding the Underpass railing. Has anyone ever identified this guy, or has he ever come forward?

--Thomas

P.S. Thanks for the great photo, Robin! Any idea when it was taken? I notice that the "new" Dallas Courthouse (which steelworker Richard Carr was working on on 11/22/63) is already finished in the photo, but the vehicles still look "old" and the Hertz Car Rental sign is still in place....

Thanks.

__________________________

Thomas, Hard to say whether it's suitable to stand on. They appear to be adjoining the switching areas of the tracks, probably box like switch housings. Maybe such a vantage point gives a wider view overall. It'd be interesting to read what that person saw/heard and why he/she choose that place. It's a 1967, four yeas later photo I think. (Another observation relating to an issue in another topic is the box-structure of the temp/time sign, and the top of the pipe that restricted space in the snipers nest. Peter posted a photo from the main/houston corner that also showed that pipe.)

The photo seems cropped. The right end of the overpass would be good to see at this detail. Another aerial (posted some month or so ago) taken a day after the assassination did not have this detail but showed the area behind the tree by the collonade and what looked like a broad pile of soil or something suggesting a raising of the ground level to that of the inside of the collonade structure. Pity so much is so borderline and merely suggestive. (Personally I don't doubt that somewhere the relevant footage/photo's exist that would answer a lot of questions, big and small.)

(image) of the 11/23/63 aerial at the right end of the overpass indicates tha while the tracks may have been near ground level at red arrow, the darker area along the track at the green arrow indicate a shadow ie the track at this point appears it was raised compared to ground level, as Tosh said.

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Yes, superb photo. Thanks for posting Robin.

Trygve

Yes, thank you Robin, great detail.

EDIT:: Wonder if this person (pink dot Altgen7, inset) is standing on this (the pink arrow) thing?

__________________________

John,

I think you're right. Nice observation. Wonder what those things are-- lights? Must have been fairly flat on top if a person could stand on top of one like that. Also wonder why the guy didn't just "elbow" his way into a good vantage spot along the railing like the other onlookers? Hmmm.... Maybe he needed to elevate himself to make himself more visible to the shooters' helpers who were waiting for some sort of signal from him?

On page 23 of Crossfire, Jim Marrs says in so many words that Ronald B. Fischer, a Dallas County auditor, was standing on the SW corner of Elm and Houston less than ten minutes before the motorcade passed by and looked up and noticed the head and shoulders of a man (wearing a light sportshirt or a white T-shirt) in a window of the TSBD and that the man was "surrounded by boxes and was staring 'transfixed,' not toward the approaching motorcade, but in the direction of the Triple Underpass." [emphasis added] I submit, John, that the guy that you've pointed out to us on the Triple Underpass could have been one of the conspirators' "signalmen" (pardon the pun; how ironic was it if the guy was "dressed up" as a railroad worker?--wow), as, most likely, was DCM and/or TUM. Maybe the guy you've pointed out was using simple hand signs (and/or the act of getting up on the thing itself) to communicate "All systems, Go!" to his co-conspirators.... All the more reason for him to be standing behind the guys crowding the Underpass railing. Has anyone ever identified this guy, or has he ever come forward?

--Thomas

P.S. Thanks for the great photo, Robin! Any idea when it was taken? I notice that the "new" Dallas Courthouse (which steelworker Richard Carr was working on on 11/22/63) is already finished in the photo, but the vehicles still look "old" and the Hertz Car Rental sign is still in place....

Thanks.

__________________________

Thomas, Hard to say whether it's suitable to stand on. They appear to be adjoining the switching areas of the tracks, probably box like switch housings. Maybe such a vantage point gives a wider view overall. It'd be interesting to read what that person saw/heard and why he/she choose that place. It's a 1967, four yeas later photo I think. (Another observation relating to an issue in another topic is the box-structure of the temp/time sign, and the top of the pipe that restricted space in the snipers nest. Peter posted a photo from the main/houston corner that also showed that pipe.)

The photo seems cropped. The right end of the overpass would be good to see at this detail. Another aerial (posted some month or so ago) taken a day after the assassination did not have this detail but showed the area behind the tree by the collonade and what looked like a broad pile of soil or something suggesting a raising of the ground level to that of the inside of the collonade structure. Pity so much is so borderline and merely suggestive. (Personally I don't doubt that somewhere the relevant footage/photo's exist that would answer a lot of questions, big and small.)

(image) of the 11/23/63 aerial at the right end of the overpass indicates tha while the tracks may have been near ground level at red arrow, the darker area along the track at the green arrow indicate a shadow ie the track at this point appears it was raised compared to ground level, as Tosh said.

___________________________________

John,

The white "things" (of which I think I counted nine in Robin's newly-posted photo) look like they're about 18" tall based on the relatively long shadows they're casting in the photo you've posted.... Maybe the other areas of possible shadows you've pointed out is due to moisture from a fairly recent shower/rainstorm? In my humble opinion, the "things" looks rather flat on top, as well. The only reasonable conclusion I can come to at this point is that the guy in "Altgens 7" is either standing on one of those "things," or he's around 7.5 feet tall....

I've got an idea! Maybe it was G.P.H.! Naw... He was "only" 6'5'' to 6'8" lol.

--Thomas

___________________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves
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The photo is after the new OVERHEAD LANE SIGNS were put over Elm.

Jack

____________________________

Thanks, Jack!

So when were those new overhead lane signs put over Elm?

Thanks,

--Thomas

P.S. "Go Froggies!"

Did I ever tell you I used to play three-on-three basketball against Norm Bulaich back in '67? I'll never forget the first time when he told his teammates, "I'll take tallboy." (Me, unfortunately...)

____________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves
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According to the CORBIS site, this IS a photo taken in 1967

Interesting observation John regarding the tall Cop in Altgens 7

Well spotted

This is the original coloring of the image as i downloaded it from Corbis, before i lightened the photo.

Edited by Robin Unger
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Yes, superb photo. Thanks for posting Robin.

Trygve

Yes, thank you Robin, great detail.

EDIT:: Wonder if this person (pink dot Altgen7, inset) is standing on this (the pink arrow) thing?

__________________________

John,

Great observation. Wonder what those things are? Must have been fairly flat on top if a person could stand on top of one like that. Also wonder why the guy didn't just "elbow" his way into a good vantage spot along the railing like the other spectators//? Hmmm.... Maybe he needed to elevate himself to make himself more visible to the shooters' "helpers" who were waiting for some sort of signal from him?

On page 23 of Crossfire, Jim Marrs says in so many words that Ronald B. Fischer, a Dallas County auditor, was standing on the SW corner of Elm and Houston less than ten minutes before the motorcade passed by and looked up and noticed the head and shoulders of a man (wearing a light sportshirt or a white T-shirt) in a window of the TSBD and that the man was "surrounded by boxes and was staring 'transfixed,' not toward the approaching motorcade, but IN THE DIRECTION OF THE TRIPLE UNDERPASS." [emphasis added; sorry to "shout"] I submit, John, that the guy that you've pointed out to us on the Triple Underpass could have been one of the conspirators' "signalmen" (pardon the pun; how ironic was it if the guy was "dressed up" as a railroad worker?--wow), as, most likely, was DCM and/or TUM. Maybe the guy you've pointed out was using simple hand signs (and/or the act of getting up on the thing itself) to communicate "All systems, Go!" to his co-conspirators.... All the more reason for him to be standing behind the guys crowding the Underpass railing. Has anyone ever identified this guy, or has he ever come forward?

--Thomas

P.S. Thanks for the great photo, Robin! Any idea when it was taken? I notice that the "new" Dallas Courthouse (which steelworker Richard Carr was working on on 11/22/63) is already finished in the photo, but the vehicles still look "old" and the Hertz Car Rental sign is still in place....

Thanks.

__________________________

Thomas, Hard to say whether it's suitable to stand on. They appear to be adjoining the switching areas of the tracks, probably box like switch housings. Maybe such a vantage point gives a wider view overall. It'd be interesting to read what that person saw/heard and why he/she choose that place. It's a 1967, four yeas later photo I think. (Another observation relating to an issue in another topic is the box-structure of the temp/time sign, and the top of the pipe that restricted space in the snipers nest. Peter posted a photo from the main/houston corner that also showed that pipe.)

The photo seems cropped. The right end of the overpass would be good to see at this detail. Another aerial (posted some month or so ago) taken a day after the assassination did not have this detail but showed the area behind the tree by the collonade and what looked like a broad pile of soil or something suggesting a raising of the ground level to that of the inside of the collonade structure. Pity so much is so borderline and merely suggestive. (Personally I don't doubt that somewhere the relevant footage/photo's exist that would answer a lot of questions, big and small.)

(image) of the 11/23/63 aerial at the right end of the overpass indicates tha while the tracks may have been near ground level at red arrow, the darker area along the track at the green arrow indicate a shadow ie the track at this point appears it was raised compared to ground level, as Tosh said.

Edited by Thomas Graves
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According to the CORBIS site, this IS a photo taken in 1967

Thanks for photo, Robin. Your photo helps show the position of spectators at the balustrade at the moment the limo passed through the triple underpass.

The red arrow on the right shows the Bell capture of two men & their locus.

I'm about 98% sure that additional photo evidence shows one man at the right red arrow locus at the same moment in time.

These individuals would have seen the famous rifle toss.

ColorDPcrop.jpg

ColorDP2.jpg

ColorDP2paint.jpg

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With regards to the B/W 11/23/63 posted aerial.

The 'white things' seem to me to be part of the mechanisms for the switching of tracks. If one looks closely at the ones on the overpass itself, they seem at a uniform distance from the tracks.

In the area where Tosh would have rounded the ballustrade to cross the tracks this distance seems to be less. What this says to me is that they are at the same horizontal distance away from the track, but because the ground leve is lower than on the overpass, they look like they are closer to the track. IE. the apparent darker stripe along the track in this area is a shadowed raised bed for the track. ie. Tosh was correct in seeing the track raised.

My understanding is that some of the things that Tosh said were discounted because there was no supporting imagery, so it was his word against what one could see in the imagery of the day. Such as the handrail, which again this photo shows there was none, as Tosh said, but because the cropped Cancellare seemed to show there was one,a number of people took Tosh as a xxxx. What strikes me is that a number of things that Tosh had to say turn out to be correct and one would have had to be there to know those things.

What is now missing which I strongly believes exist and should be released is the full uncropped lossless Cancellare.

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Thanks for the comments.

A recent image taken by Lee Forman of the corner of the fence where it attaches to the overpass

John.

This may give you a better look at the track and track bed as it is today, also a nice shot of the other side of the underpass, as it is rarely seen in photo's from this position.

10733.jpg

Edited by Robin Unger
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Robin,

Lee certainly gets around doesn't he?

If anyone is in Dealey Plaza and sees someone crawling around the bushes or hanging off a building, go up and say hello, it is probably Lee Forman.

Those photos Lee took around the Plaza are an incredible resource especially to those of us who have never had the pleasure to visit.

James

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