Jump to content
The Education Forum

Possible Trajectories?


Guest Eugene B. Connolly
 Share

Recommended Posts

Guest Eugene B. Connolly

Could Oswald or someone have managed it?

Using the Stemmons Freeway sign as a reference point

for the timing and impact of the first shot is it possible

that Oswald or someone else on the sixth floor could

have been able to shoot JFK?

IMO there may have been as many as 11 shooters.

Perhaps not all gunmen fired.

No room for 'error'.

EBC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DPtheorizedTRAJECTORIES.gif

.

.

.

.

DPtheorizedTRAJECTORIESviews.gif

Best Regards in Research,

Don

Don Roberdeau

U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67 "Big John" Plank Walker

Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly

ROSEMARY WILLIS 2nd Headsnap; Westward, Ultrafast, & Towards the "Grassy Knoll"

Dealey Plaza Professionally-surveyed Map Detailing Victims precise locations, Witnesses, Photographers, Suspected bullet trajectories, Evidence, & Important considerations

4 Principles

T ogether

E veryone

A chieves

M ore

TEAMWORK.gif

For the United States

DHS3elevatedYELLOW.gif

"What we do for ourselves, remains with us.

What we do for others, remains, and is, immortal."

---- ALBERT PINES

"It is better to light one candle, than to curse the darkness."

---- Chinese proverb

Edited by Don Roberdeau
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

I would like to add a potential shooting position..

That is in the Dal-Tex building, on the first floor (not ground floor), closest to the corner.

In the Altgens foto you can see the left side of the window in the shade (would be a usefull advantage). Another is: you can see all of Elm, if Altgens can see the window.

On the downside, it seemed to me that the window to the left (with all the people), was part of the same office. I deducted that from an enlargement, where I can see a light blob, that I would describe as light source from the office ceiling. The angle makes it one office. So if it was a location...... well..... I would appreciate a bit more privacy.... just a bit.

On another foto earlier taken on Houston strt., I saw an angle+shade on that corner. I thought it to be a knee. Yet in Altgens there is no-one on the roof visible.

Just a thought.

Maarten

Edit: I believe Don already incorperated... So double.. :rolleyes:

Edited by Maarten Coumans
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Eugene B. Connolly

Don,

Thank you for the diagramme you posted.

A superb graphic aid to events on 22nd November 1963!

Below is an image containing the data from your excellent

detailed graphic.

I hope I got it right.

Regards,

Eugene

Edited by Eugene B. Connolly
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don,

Thank you for the diagramme you posted.

A superb graphic aid to events on 22nd November 1963!

Below is an image containing the data from your excellent

detailed graphic.

I hope I got it right.

Regards,

Eugene

I still think the trajectory from the knoll on Commerce St near the underpass top could not be achieved, as I still think it would hit Jackie. Also, he was hit on the right side. I did see an autopsy photo one time where there was a bullet hole under his hair, but I don't recall which side. And nobody's ever mentioned that photo again...?

Kathy

Edited by Kathleen Collins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Question: If JFK was shot in the neck from behind, wouldn't he grab the back of his neck? If shot from the front, wouldn't he grab the front of the neck like it shows in Zapruder film? I would think that human reaction would be to go the point of entrance of an object. An example: if somebody shoots somebody in the leg from behind, and the bullet exits through the front of the leg, I would think the human reaction would be to grab the back of the leg....In this case, line of trajectory would be set square on a low line of trajectory - line of sight possibly under the triple overpass?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think he actually grabs his throat but rather tries to pull open his coat. There are many directions the shot could come from, and there are also certain areas where people and objects are obstructions and 'cast a shadow' from the point of strike back to the various buildings. Don's map is doubtful in its accuracy, a past topic attempted to discuss this to no avail, a number of questons there unanswered and the map continued to be represented as absolutely correct. Also the full correct map is witheld from public consumption by others. What this means is that with what is available exact trajectories are nigh impossible to determine. It really makes one wonder why bother?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HI,

For the explanation of Kennedy's reaction after reappearing behind roadsign, I have an additional idea.

In Autopsy's of the head, where you can see a bit of the upper-body, I saw a mark that did not resemble the place of a nipple. You can find it on the right chest.

I thought this could be a bullet-hole. Someone told me that hole was made to help Kennedy breathing at Parkland. But makes no sense to me..... so I tend to rather ignore. So I do...

If it is a bullet hole, it would collapse the lung, and forcefull exhail.... like an extreme caugh. In the subsequent frames you can see the shirt of Kennedy under the jacket button. His hips are forwarded.

Makes additional sense for the extreme armwaving. And jackie holds her hand under his mouth in the frames leading to 312, like trying to catch the block.... but did not come.

After 313 you can see a (relative) long time it takes for Jackie to react to the motions of her husband. And in my oppinion she is looking at his body, rather than to his face, prior to her reaction.

This on top of possible neck/back/head trajectaries. :blink:

Maarten

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think he actually grabs his throat but rather tries to pull open his coat. There are many directions the shot could come from, and there are also certain areas where people and objects are obstructions and 'cast a shadow' from the point of strike back to the various buildings. Don's map is doubtful in its accuracy, a past topic attempted to discuss this to no avail, a number of questons there unanswered and the map continued to be represented as absolutely correct. Also the full correct map is witheld from public consumption by others. What this means is that with what is available exact trajectories are nigh impossible to determine. It really makes one wonder why bother?
Also the full correct map is withheld from public consumption by others.

Hi John,

Thanks for looking into this. Asking for more detail, please.

Which is the "full correct map?" Who are the "others?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Question: If JFK was shot in the neck from behind, wouldn't he grab the back of his neck? If shot from the front, wouldn't he grab the front of the neck like it shows in Zapruder film? I would think that human reaction would be to go the point of entrance of an object. An example: if somebody shoots somebody in the leg from behind, and the bullet exits through the front of the leg, I would think the human reaction would be to grab the back of the leg....In this case, line of trajectory would be set square on a low line of trajectory - line of sight possibly under the triple overpass?

Why on Earth would someone reach for the bullet entrance? The exit would most normally be larger and have more excited nerve endings. In most cases I suspect the mind reacts to the more painful wound and cuts off reaction to the lesser wounds. Connally felt the impact on his back but was well aware the bullet had tore through his chest. He never reached for his back wound and had no knowledge of his wrist wound or thigh wound until the following day.

From my research I ended up concluding that the bullet entered low on Kennedy's head and exited from his throat. One of the factors in this conclusion was the human reaction to a bullet traveling in such a trajectory.

From patspeer.com

"Since a bullet shooting down the neck at Z-224 would have brushed past the cerebellum, if not actually striking it, I decided to look back through the literature to see if there was any indication something like this occurred. I found that when discussing the brain photos with the ARRB in 1996, Dr. Humes acknowledged, “the right cerebellum has been partially disrupted, yes.” I also found that Dr. Peters, one of the President’s doctors in Dallas, was shown the autopsy photos in 1988 and shared Humes’ appraisal. He wrote writer Harry Livingstone that “the cerebellum was indeed depressed on the right side compared to the left.” I then recalled the HSCA’s declaration that “the posterior-inferior portion of the cerebellum” was “virtually intact…It certainly does not demonstrate the degree of laceration, fragmentation, or contusion (as appears subsequently on the superior aspect of the brain) that would be expected in this location if the bullet wound of entrance were as described in the autopsy report.” This time, however, I noticed the qualifiers. They said “virtually intact,” which indicates some damage. They also said there was certainly not the degree of damage necessary to be consistent with the autopsy report, which makes sense. After all, the bullet trajectory implied in the autopsy report would have the bullet heading straight into the cerebellum. These statements by the HSCA lead me to believe the damage apparent on the cerebellum is consistent with a bullet’s having headed down into the neck.

Dr. Humes certainly thought so. Upon re-reading the supplementary autopsy report from 12-6-63, I noticed that there were seven slices of tissue removed from the brain for microscopic examination, including one from the “right cerebellar cortex.” I then noticed that the other six were all from areas that were reported to be damaged. When I re-read the report I realized that a line I had read many times meant something completely different than I’d previously believed. The report states “When viewed from the basilar aspect the disruption of the right cortex is again obvious.” As “the basilar aspect” means “underneath” and “cortex” means “outer layer,” this is clearly a reference to the cerebellum and not a reference to the badly lacerated cerebral cortex, which could not be viewed from underneath. The results of the microscopic examination of the brain are telling: “Multiple sections from representative areas as noted above are examined. All sections are essentially similar and show extensive disruption of brain tissue with associated hemorrhage.” The underside of the President’s right cerebellum was clearly damaged…

At the risk of pulling a Lattimer, who desperately tried to link Kennedy’s movements after this shot to something which came to be called a Thorburn’s reaction, I decided to see if the President’s behavior after frame 224 was consistent with someone suffering damage to his cerebellum. According to the available literature, the symptoms of cerebellar damage include a weakness to the side of the body suffering the damage (ipsilateral hypotonia), a tendency to not stop a movement at its proper point (dysmetria), an inability to grasp objects (ataxia), an abnormal head attitude, and disturbances in speech, eye movement, and equilibrium. Between Zapruder frame 224, when the President seems to suffer a wound on his throat, and 313, when he is obviously hit in the head, the President reached in the direction of his throat without grabbing anything, lifted his arms past his throat, slumped to his left (perhaps as over-compensation for the sudden weakness on his right), and stared down without letting out so much as a scream. Ironically, a November 24, 1963 article in the New York Times by Dr. Howard Rusk described this very phenomenon. Mistakenly believing the theory proposed by the Dallas doctors on the afternoon of the 22nd, that one shot hit Kennedy in the throat and exploded out the top of his head, Dr. Rusk explained brain injuries as follows: “If the injury is in the posterior portion of the brain, where the bullet that killed the President made its exit, the cerebellum is damaged. Then the individual is left with ataxia, evidenced by severe intention type of tremors that occur when one tries to perform a basic act or grasp an object. Damage to the cerebellum is also usually accompanied by a loss of equilibrium."

Should one be unsatisfied with that explanation, there is another possible explanation for Kennedy’s behavior. Since Brock’s Injuries of the Brain and Spinal Cord made note that “Posterior basilar fractures tend to gravitate towards the large foramina”, I decided to see if there were any behavioral symptoms for a fracture in this area. And I found something which dropped my jaw. Jugular Foramen Syndrome is described by Blakiston’s Pocket Medical Dictionary as “Paralysis of the ipsilateral glossopharyngeal, vagus, and spinal accessory nerves, caused by a lesion involving the jugular foramen, usually a basilar skull fracture.” According to the online article Craniofacial and Skull Base Trauma by Dr. Harry Shahinian and the Skull Base Institute the paralysis of the vagus nerve would manifest itself through a paralysis of the vocal cords, and a paralysis of the spinal accessory nerves would manifest itself through a paralysis of the neck muscle that flexes the head (the strernocleidomastoid) as well as a weakness of the trapezius muscle, which rotates it. The result is a “weakness in contralateral head rotation and shoulder elevation.” Contralateral, of course, means affecting the opposite side of the body. As we know all too well, Kennedy turned toward his left and his left shoulder dipped in his final, silent, moments."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Miles a Dallas surveyor started off from a certified benchmark and did a proper survey. How many copies exist of this survey? I understand that the WC was presented with it but witheld it and presented an different one in the WC exhibits but in a format that is useless for fine measurement. The proper plat is large and not so readily copied and digitised in toto. Tom has been entrusted with the major parts of the Surveyors documentation and has been kind enough in the past to scan and post portions in good detail. I understand this documentation may hopefully end up in an accessible archive. AFAIKother private persons have copies such as Jack and no doubt others. Until then one has to accept these people's reasons for not making available the full survey plus level tables and documentation. As seen in the other topic trying to resolve this issue, the principals are not interested.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To Pat,

I am having a real difficult time believing that Connelly got hit in the back after roadsign. In my oppinion, it was the left upper leg.

Reasons: The reactions of Connelly, after being hit. He lifts his hat, turns left and below (stretches his neck), and then turns violently towards Kennedy (and his yell of course, distracting Jackie).

That would press agains the alledged back wound, causing pain in extreme. The other thing is, in my oppinion, that that part of hisck should be shielded by his chair. So that would make a bullet going through Kennedy, wait, and go through chair, and Connelly. Pop out...... and fall on the floor??? Too much magic.

Connelly must have lost consciousness, while yelling out, and with a collapsed lung. Furthermore he turns back a bit, to fall back towards Nellie, and turn over 90 degrees after 313 to burry his nose in her lap. Later to lift his head. (While unconscious?)

But according to his statements, what they are worth, he was conscious at 313, to have heard the shot and the bullet hit. And see the limo covered in Kennedy-bits.

Those things do not add up!

On top of that, he described the backwound as a an impact that pushed him forward. That describtion only makes sence after 313, when he dives on Nellie.

I like the idea that the brain malfunction caused the body the maintain their position.

I initially thought Kennedy's right arm rested on the edge of the limo, and the left being grabbed by Jackie, was the cause of his nòt moving his arms. Even to lower them.

The lack of facial expressions, soon after reappearing, makes me think he was (nearly) deceased.

Pat or other medics, do you have any info on holes being made at Parkland in the lower part of the lungs, to help breathing.

Makes no sence to me, because it would collapse the lung. Making things worse as it is..... And then decided on a tracheostomy under the adam's appell??????

Or could this be a piece of botched up evidence. Since a shot at that location would have to have come from the up and front, compromising a much desired LN, and Magic Bullet Theory.

A picture of what I think happened to Connelly after roadsign:

post-4997-1181392619_thumb.jpg

Maarten

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...