Bugliosi Has Won !

[Charles Black]

Stephen

Perhaps I have misinterpreted what to me is a very

disjointed post, and if so I apologize.

However, to my thinking, you are advocating a belief that "the righteous", because of their virtue are always winners. Is this a take off on the "meek shall inherit the earth"?

I don't think that I need remind anyone, that since even before recorded history, that those who are in conflict, have "each and all" truly believed that their position has had the support of "Their God or Gods", and that righteousness was truly "on their side" as a result of this, and that righteousess would truly prevail.

Stephen....who do you really feel has their "heads in the sand"....or perhaps somewhere darker ?

I don't mean to be rude, but I can't help it ! This sounds like fourth grade Sunday School.....and these words of mine are coming from a reasonably devout Roman Catholic !

Charles Black

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Stephen

Perhaps I have misinterpreted what to me is a very

disjointed post, and if so I apologize.

However, to my thinking, you are advocating a belief that "the righteous", because of their virtue are always winners. Is this a take off on the "meek shall inherit the earth"?

I don't think that I need remind anyone, that since even before recorded history, that those who are in conflict, have "each and all" truly believed that their position has had the support of "Their God or Gods", and that righteousness was truly "on their side" as a result of this, and that righteousess would truly prevail.

Stephen....who do you really feel has their "heads in the sand"....or perhaps somewhere darker ?

I don't mean to be rude, but I can't help it ! This sounds like fourth grade Sunday School.....and these words of mine are coming from a reasonably devout Roman Catholic !

Charles Black

Charles, nothing is a given, and nothing worth the winning was ever obtained without a fight. After over forty years I hope I am not so stupid as to convince myself that it will be easy, we are all aware of the strength of the forces arraigned against us, but I find your imput here to be intellegent and well thought, and I just hope that you are not thinking of quitting, after all, in the words of Sherlock Holmes, "The games afoot"

[Charles Drago]

In the fullness of time ...

The arc of the universe bends toward justice.

Right makes might.

The alternative is simply not acceptable.

Charles

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Having spent a great deal of time reading and getting up to speed with the articles of Sterling Seagrave, David Guyatt, John Simkin et al in various threads generally surrounding the prologue to WWII, I have sympathy with Charles' position. If everything is to be believed then the conspiracy truly is bigger than I ever imagined. The individual events (WW1, II, 911, Iraq) are nothing more than fixtures in the history of the game.

Perhaps I'm wrong in my belief, but I think the machine is much too large to rage against. I think some battles can be won and I hope JFK's murder is one, but the war IMO is irretrievable.

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Having spent a great deal of time reading and getting up to speed with the articles of Sterling Seagrave, David Guyatt, John Simkin et al in various threads generally surrounding the prologue to WWII, I have sympathy with Charles' position. If everything is to be believed then the conspiracy truly is bigger than I ever imagined. The individual events (WW1, II, 911, Iraq) are nothing more than fixtures in the history of the game.

Perhaps I'm wrong in my belief, but I think the machine is much too large to rage against. I think some battles can be won and I hope JFK's murder is one, but the war IMO is irretrievable.

I sympathize - to some degree - with the hand-wringing about justice and morality. It's sweet in a hazy, nostalgic way. But to believe that politics, governments, elected officials, etc. have ever been anything but machinery cogs is naive and serves to prove the rule. The fix has always been in, and they wave the flag like a shiny object to distract the rubes. There is no grand plot, it's just people who have attained positions of great power doing things to ensure they stay there. For proof you need look no further than the current presidential campaign in the US. Listen to what they talk about. Those topics are their version of movie posters and TV commercials for new cars. They are platitudes designed to push the emotional buttons of the citizenry - who predictably become worked up over issues like morality, justice and patriotism - every time. Behind the scenes the politicians laugh.

There doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy. There only needs to be powerful, self-interested people. If you were a wealthy industrialist and you had a choice between making a half-billion dollars and polluting a river or making much less, your circumstance would demand that you choose the former. Nice people - good people - moral people - would choose to keep the river clean. And then someone else would come in and make the money. That's how it goes. Power fills a vacuum.

Bugliosi is an arrogant, self-righteous publicity hound. I don't believe he wrote the book for any reason other than for self-aggrandizement.

Edited June 18, 2007 by Mark Valenti

[Terry Mauro]

To believe for one moment that the illegitimate poisonous pushers of such storied cancerous lies have won, is nothing less than a retreat to the land of "headinthesand" Bugliosi and his paymasters have won nothing, whilst one Person continues to fight for the truth. all they have done, and that for a fleeting moment, is to sell yet another set of "horsefeathers" to the status obsessed masses, as Yeats observed "The center cannot hold" and this will not stand. Read Osymandius......

********************************************************

"...as Yeats observed "The center cannot hold" and this will not stand. Read Osymandius......"

Excellent advice, Stephen.

[Terry Mauro]

Stephen

Perhaps I have misinterpreted what to me is a very

disjointed post, and if so I apologize.

However, to my thinking, you are advocating a belief that "the righteous", because of their virtue are always winners. Is this a take off on the "meek shall inherit the earth"?

I don't think that I need remind anyone, that since even before recorded history, that those who are in conflict, have "each and all" truly believed that their position has had the support of "Their God or Gods", and that righteousness was truly "on their side" as a result of this, and that righteousess would truly prevail.

Stephen....who do you really feel has their "heads in the sand"....or perhaps somewhere darker ?

I don't mean to be rude, but I can't help it ! This sounds like fourth grade Sunday School.....and these words of mine are coming from a reasonably devout Roman Catholic !

Charles Black

***********************************************************

"Stephen....who do you really feel has their "heads in the sand"....or perhaps somewhere darker?"

I believe this harks back to the original thesis set forth by me, with regard to the "dumbing-down" of the American educational system, and it's failure to impart a true picture of our historical, as well as, economical system. Which, IMHO appears to have hobbled the citizenry of this country as far as being able to thoroughly understand the mechanizations deliberately set in place, as a method of control and manipulation of the "masses."

The involvement of "Mockingbird" and the insidious results of their efforts, have managed to cripple this country's present generation of the desire to exhibit any form of interest in what is involved in running a democratic republic. Especially, if it doesn't come across as palatable, or as easy to digest, or master, as being able to use their cellphones, download thousands of tunes to their I-pods, or master their hand-and-eye coordinative abilities via video games with their requisite play-stations. The latter, of course, being of value to those whose future will most likely be indoctrinated into joining one of the branches of the armed forces, no doubt.

These manufactured distractions, along with the sound-bytes used to peddle their supposed entertainment value to the mass market via the corporate media and their sales blitz style of advertising campaigns, are nothing short of subliminal trickery. The best example of what seems to be "psychological" warfare, to come down the pike from those conservative "think tanks" in D.C. via Madison Avenue, since 1947. The term "heads-in-the-sand" refers to the tendency of ostriches to bury their heads in the sand in an attempt to hide from their predators. And, this is exactly what Mockingbird has been so successful in perpetrating upon the unsuspecting masses they have chosen to control, in the most "humane" form of manipulation at hand, visually attractive sales propaganda.

[Charles Drago]

"Handwringing"???

"The war is irretrievable"???

The hands on this keyboard have not been wrung and will not be. They may very well wring a few necks before this thing is over, however.

Fight or get off the pot.

And who wants to retrieve war?

The system's willing executioners (the brain dead majority) are as susceptible to soul cleansing as they are to brain washing.

No force on earth can extinguish the divine spark.

Charles

[William O'Neil]

"Handwringing"???

"The war is irretrievable"???

The hands on this keyboard have not been wrung and will not be. They may very well wring a few necks before this thing is over, however.

Fight or get off the pot.

And who wants to retrieve war?

The system's willing executioners (the brain dead majority) are as susceptible to soul cleansing as they are to brain washing.

No force on earth can extinguish the divine spark.

Charles

Indeed, SOMEBODY out there obviously doesn't think we've been succesfully marginalized!

[Charles Black]

Hello everyone

Since most of us do not know each other personally, beyond what we "interpret" to be the meaning that the statements of the members imply, I would like to forever "clarify for the record, that I have never advocated "quitting or surrender" in this matter, or most others in my life. I am, and have always been, a highly competitive person in all of my chosen and "even unchosen" endeavors.

I mentioned in an earlier post the plight of the 300 Spartans at the pass at Thermopolyae (sp?).

I hope that no one believes that these Spartans truly envisioned their victory over the hundreds of thousands of troops which were massed against them.

They made a decision to "sacrifice" their lives, as best I understand it, on two sound principles.

One principle was to delay the enemy for as long as possible, for the strategic reasons of giving their friends and allies more time to prepare their defenses. The other reason was their warriors unique warrior code. It was their belief that a shoulder should and must return from battle in only one of two ways....1) victoriously carrying his shield or 2) dead and laying upon it.

To those 300 Spartans, tho they were all killed....

they were victorious, because they accomplished what they set forth to do. They never supposed that the 300 were going to defeat the reported several hundred thousand enemy. They were REALISTS ! as well as Heroes and honorable men.

My very make up and nature becomes quite upset and disjointed when I am accused of advocating surrender. I consider my self to have the same detrmination as those 300, and also the same acknowledgement of reality.

In my opinion, the U.S. at the time of the Coup d' Etat, could have handled "THE TRUTH", survived it and could have grown stronger.

Now, however, after a half century of lies spewed by nearly every government Department, Agency, and most who have held important office.... The Truth Would Not Set Us Free.....

At this stage and at this time (this is a personal opinion only that I express), I don't believe that this young nation could survive THE TRUTH.

I feel that there are honorable men, even now, that have decided to "Not Fight The Continued Cover"....

Not in the oft quoted "interest of national security"......but the "Never Quoted".. INTEREST OF NATIONAL SURVIVAL !

I absolutely feel that at this late date...after so many lies.....by so many persons that have been accepted and often praised as "most honorable men", that the United States, as a mass, CANNOT HANDLE THE TRUTH !

To those who have ears, eyes and brains.....there is nothing, with the possible exception of "some" names.....that is not known regarding the COUP OF

22 NOVEMBER.

What I am predicting is ONLY AND IMPORTANTLY, that this Coup will never be so acknowledged in American History books, for probably at least two centuries, provided even that our nation survives that long.

No ! I don't advocate quitting or surrender s I have been quite willing to die upon my shield.

I do however advocate that we should "accept reality, as did those Spartans, and as did those "true patriots".....continue to fight regardless of projected outcomes.

My favorite quotation from all of history, is probably considered by many to be quite "hokey"!

But I truly have always, as do I now believe in those seven very simple words..."Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death".

Even tho I have come to, detestably at times, realize "acceptance"....that does not mean that I advocate "surrender"! I understand too much, the absolute "horror" of this deed ! But I do not advocate the inner destruction of this country....which to me may have been the "ultimate goal". We should never forget what we have been promised...A NEW WORLD ORDER ! Possibly the most repulsive words that I have ever heard !

Charles Black

[Charles Drago]

"At this stage and at this time (this is a personal opinion only that I express), I don't believe that this young nation could survive THE TRUTH."

What color is the sky on your world?

This "young nation" clearly -- for those willing to see -- cannot and will not survive THE LIE.

In fact, I would argue that America HAS NOT survived THE LIE.

And THE TRUTH -- only THE TRUTH -- has the faintest chance of miraculously breathing life back into the corpse by driving a stake through the black heart of America, Inc.

Charles Drago

Edited June 19, 2007 by Charles Drago

[Charles Black]

Charles Drago

In my opinion you sound like a politician, who in a

very unashamed and poorly disguised manner, is seekng approval for his absurd theory, that the mass of nearly 300 million within the U.S., is well read, well informed, and that most of whom, have a basic knowledge of what we are discussing.

I hope that you have managed to fool yourself !

I am sure that you have brought a smile to the faces of those masses of poorly or completely uninformed whom you are no doubt attempting to rally for your support. BUT SUPPORT FOR WHAT ?

Earlier in this thread I have accused you of giving "ridiculous" locker room motivational speeches that would not even influence the 10 year olds, who play in the Pop Warner league.

You have no doubt rallied battle experienced war veterans, with your apparent lack of both tactical knowledge and leadership, into probably asking...."what exactly is this "wannabe" talking about"?

No one....and certainly never I...have failed to support the principles upon which this nation was originally founded.

However "that nation" bears little similarity to what I have seen in the past half century...."and I don't like it"....nor will I pretend that it has not drastically changed !

NO ! THIS NATION CANNOT NOW HANDLE IT !

As a matter of fact our "enlightened" citzens, to whom you are apparently attempting to appeal, in most part, would not have the slighest conception or understanding of probably 80% of the threads on this forum.

You not only seem to misunderstand the uncaring naivete of most of whom you speak, but your motivational methods, I feel, would spark very little emotion in those few who might comprehend.

It is as if you feel that realism and truism is Anti American.

You...I cannot excuse...as you are one who has seen and experienced the decline of the principles and general morality of U.S. leadership since 1964 !

YOU also know the actual intellectual level of most within this country.

What are you "trying to promote...or defend" ?

AND WHY ?

I feel that I have probably now by passed the "point of diminishing returns", regarding anything that I consider of value, that I could further add.

Although a few of my thoughts were misinterpreted, or perhaps poorly originally stated, I will attempt to not add more redundency to what I feel that I have already well enough expressed.

But in what I hope will be my closing statement in this thread, I wish to reaffirm my my continued support for everything that I have stated...or attempted to state.

If I have at times been overly callous, I apologize for my behaviour or method of expression.....tho not my thoughts.

Charles Black

Edited June 19, 2007 by Charles Black

[Charles Drago]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to insist upon lucidity and logic from my correspondents.

And oh yeah ... courage.

Charles Drago

[William O'Neil]

Charles Drago

In my opinion you sound like a politician, who in a

very unashamed and poorly disguised manner, is seekng approval for his absurd theory, that the mass of nearly 300 million within the U.S., is well read, well informed, and that most of whom, have a basic knowledge of what we are discussing.

I hope that you have managed to fool yourself !

I am sure that you have brought a smile to the faces of those masses of poorly or completely uninformed whom you are no doubt attempting to rally for your support. BUT SUPPORT FOR WHAT ?

Earlier in this thread I have accused you of giving "ridiculous" locker room motivational speeches that would not even influence the 10 year olds, who play in the Pop Warner league.

You have no doubt rallied battle experienced war veterans, with your apparent lack of both tactical knowledge and leadership, into probably asking...."what exactly is this "wannabe" talking about"?

No one....and certainly never I...have failed to support the principles upon which this nation was originally founded.

However "that nation" bears little similarity to what I have seen in the past half century...."and I don't like it"....nor will I pretend that it has not drastically changed !

NO ! THIS NATION CANNOT NOW HANDLE IT !

As a matter of fact our "enlightened" citzens, to whom you are apparently attempting to appeal, in most part, would not have the slighest conception or understanding of probably 80% of the threads on this forum.

You not only seem to misunderstand the uncaring naivete of most of whom you speak, but your motivational methods, I feel, would spark very little emotion in those few who might comprehend.

It is as if you feel that realism and truism is Anti American.

You...I cannot excuse...as you are one who has seen and experienced the decline of the principles and general morality of U.S. leadership since 1964 !

YOU also know the actual intellectual level of most within this country.

What are you "trying to promote...or defend" ?

AND WHY ?

I feel that I have probably now by passed the "point of diminishing returns", regarding anything that I consider of value, that I could further add.

Although a few of my thoughts were misinterpreted, or perhaps poorly originally stated, I will attempt to not add more redundency to what I feel that I have already well enough expressed.

But in what I hope will be my closing statement in this thread, I wish to reaffirm my my continued support for everything that I have stated...or attempted to state.

If I have at times been overly callous, I apologize for my behaviour or method of expression.....tho not my thoughts.

Charles Black

Charles , If the masses are as "uncaring and naive" as you say (and many are) , why would you think the "truth" would even faze them ?

[Charles Drago]

At this stage of the game, perhaps a bit of humor is in order -- humor of the enlightening sort, that is.

I swear, some of the posts in which I've been ... well ... interpreted make as much sense as

Bally Jerry, pranged his kite right in the how's-your-father; hairy blighter, dicky-birded, feathered back on his sammy, took a waspy, flipped over on his Betty Harpers and caught his can in the Bertie.

No? How about

Bunch of monkeys on the ceiling! Grab your egg-and-fours and let's get the bacon delivered?

Still nothing? We might try

Charlie choppers chucking a handful?

Sausage squad up the blue end?

Cabbage crates coming over the briny?

Oh, dear.

Now you know how I feel.

Charles Drago

(with great thanks to the Flying Circus)

Edited June 19, 2007 by Charles Drago