Bomb for Brown

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Thoughts anyone?

An exploding butt plug, perhaps?

By the way, did either of the two look, well, Caucasian to you?

Funny you should mention that Paul, as I have just been working on this.

The Guardian reports “police and Whitehall sources said that the failed attempt to inflict mass murder in the capital was the work of al-Qaida or those inspired by its ideology”.

But television footage – and less clear still photo’s of one of the arrested men – the one in question was fully clothed clearly show Caucasian characteristics (which clearly wasn’t lost on the Sky News (or was a Beeb News 24?) anchor who raised this point with her on-the-spot reporter. If this is the case it would be a significant departure from previous suspicious suspects who all had clearly suspicious faces with notable Asian characteristics.

Watch out al-queda, you may have rivals trying to out do you…

David

It seems al-Qaeda were the culprits again LOL. Also it was interesting that initial reports described the Glasgow attack as "Not an attack on National Security" therefore distancing from the London bombs, only for the poor Scottish coppers to be brought back on script

From the BBC web site

PM defiant over 'al-Qaeda threat'

Britain will not yield despite a sustained threat from people associated with al-Qaeda, Gordon Brown has said after three terror attacks in the UK.

The prime minister was speaking after a burning car driven into Glasgow Airport on Saturday was linked to two car bombs found in London's West End on Friday.

Five people have been arrested over the attacks - two at the airport, two later in Cheshire and a fifth in Liverpool.

Houses in Staffordshire, Liverpool and near Glasgow are also being searched.

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said the British public would not be "intimidated or let anyone stop us getting on with our lives".

Speaking after the government's emergency response unit, Cobra, held its fourth meeting in three days, she said a formal statement will be made in the Commons on Monday.

One of the suspects held at Glasgow Airport suffered severe burns and was taken to Royal Alexandra Hospital, in Paisley, where he is said to be in a critical condition.

A controlled explosion was later carried out at the hospital on a car, thought to be connected to the attack on Glasgow Airport, police said.

Scotland Yard said two people arrested on the M6 in Cheshire overnight - a 26-year-old man and 27-year-old woman - have been brought to London for questioning.

A spokesperson said Merseyside Police had arrested a 26-year-old man and were searching two addresses in the Liverpool area.

Staffordshire Police said its officers were involved in searches of addresses in Newcastle-under-Lyme with the West Midlands Counter Terrorism Unit and Met personnel.

'Maximum damage'

The UK has moved to its highest level of terror alert - critical - after a Jeep Cherokee believed to have contained gas cylinders crashed into the main doors of Glasgow Airport's main terminal and burst into flames.

Mr Brown told Andrew Marr on BBC One's Sunday AM it was "clear that we are dealing, in general terms, with people who are associated with al-Qaeda".

"It's obvious that we have a group of people - not just in this country, but round the world - who're prepared at any time to inflict what they want to be maximum damage on civilians, irrespective of the religion of these people who are killed or maimed are to be," he said.

Mr Brown also praised the "magnificent work" of police and security services and the public for being vigilant.

He said people still needed to be "constantly vigilant" against a "long-term and sustained threat".

He added: "We've got to separate if you like those great moderate members of our community from a few extremists who wish to practise both violence and inflict maximum loss of life in the interests of a perversion of their religion."

Speaking during a visit to Glasgow Airport, Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond praised the efforts of the emergency services, and travellers for showing "great patience".

He said Scotland had not been complacent about such threats and preparations had been in place.

An eyewitness to the arrests in Cheshire, Peter Whitehead, told BBC News 24 that three unmarked police cars straddled the motorway and brought traffic to a halt.

Counter-terrorism police made the arrests hours after Strathclyde police had confirmed they were linking the attack in Glasgow with events in London and treating it as a "terrorist incident".

The Glasgow incident came after two Mercedes containing petrol, gas cylinders and nails were found outside the Tiger Tiger club in London's Haymarket and a nearby street on Friday, but the devices did not detonate.

BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said the decision to raise the UK's security level to critical on Saturday reflected concern that those responsible have the capability and intent to carry out further bombings.

He said the similarities between the attacks suggested they were carried out by the same individuals or by members of the same cell.

The critical threat level, the highest one possible, indicates terror attacks are "imminent".

Flights have resumed at Glasgow Airport after being suspended.

A number of other airports have stepped up security, including Heathrow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Birmingham, Manchester and Blackpool.

Security has also been tightened at airports across the US.

'Major escalation'

Lord Stevens, Mr Brown's new terrorism adviser, has said the attacks signalled a "major escalation in the war being waged on us by Islamic terrorists".

He wrote in his column in the News of the World: "It is clear a loose but deadly network of interlinked operational cells has developed."

He also said the "trick" of exploding one device and shortly afterwards igniting another to catch fleeing crowds was "textbook al-Qaeda".

The Met Police, meanwhile, have been increasing patrols and security for events in London over the weekend, including the Concert for Diana at Wembley Stadium.

The British Muslim Forum condemned the attempted attacks.

"We take the heightened security level extremely seriously and urge all of our communities to remain calm, be extra vigilant and report anything suspicious to the authorities," chair Khurshid Ahmed said in a statement.

"It is the duty of every British citizen to assist the police in safeguarding national security and ensuring the safety of all our citizens."

[Guest Gary Loughran]

I understand skepticism about inquiries that investigate terrorism, assassinations and/or the ludicrously misnamed 'security services'. The Hutton Inquiry was the latest fiasco. Yet arguably, the highly restrictive terms of reference was the greatest problem of all with the Hutton Inquiry - and the Warren Commission before it. Neither inquiry was assumption-free. Both were premised on the guilt of those already accused of the crimes.

If my inference is correct - and incidents such as 7/7 and the recent car bomb discoveries are some form of 'inside job' - then DEMANDING honest public inquiry which genuinely investigate these atrocities is a very useful line of defense open to the public.

It's a very reasonable demand. It puts pressure on the perpetrators.

On the other hands, if the public continues to allow Secret State Agencies to get away with spinning their narratives investigation-free, we hand them a charter to blow us up at will, like disposable pyrotechnic props.

Sid, the Lord Stevens, mentioned in the BBC report in my previous post, has (when just plain John Stevens, notice how one can also get promotions doing this work) performed 3 investigations into the murder of Pat Finucane, amongst others, but primarily Finucane. (Interesting aside, his right hand man on the first inquiry was Hugh Orde now chief of the PSNI) None of which have wholly been made public, national security and all that. A few abridged pages from Stevens 3 made it into the public domain. Despite institutionalised refusals to co-operate by MI and RUC Special Branch and the naming of many of these as murderers or puppet masters for murderers in the report, there will be no prosecutions (see Pat Finucane thread).

Demands for a public independent inquiry have been made by his family, Irish Nationalists and Republicans, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Washington etc. etc. and what....nada. Oh sorry the promise of a public inquiry was initially agreed and the wheels set in motion only for, wait for it, portions of the 'public inquiry' to be held behind closed doors and not to be made available to the report. Cory, who set the scope of the inquiry has stated many times that this is not what he had in mind when he initiated the inquiry.

Furthermore, International lawyers groups have petitioned and stated that no member of their profession should participate in this farce of an inquiry under the new pre-conditions laid down by...basically the people who carried out the murders.

Then add to that the fact that in this case, the Intelligence operatives, soldiers and police all went to court so they could not be identified and won. Appearing, behind screens as A, B etc. Their case hinging on the fact that to do so would put them in the firing line of the Provies. HA!!!!!

Put this template on top of your suggestion in your previous post and tell me that "DEMANDING honest public inquiry which genuinely investigate these atrocities is a very useful line of defense open to the public."

Unfortunately it just don't work like that, never has, never will.

[Paul Rigby]

If there's much more erosion of civil liberties, fair judicial process and honesty in media reportage, our spooks may be able to use entirely virtual patsies. Just actors... who disappear deep inside the memory hole when their 15 minutes of fame is over.

It would be a humane reform. No need to bother with bodgy trials, long, expensive incarcerations and outraged families campaigning for justice.

A modest proposal of the most agreeable kind. Not merely would it save a vast amount of money, but it would offer repertory training to a new generation of thespian talent. I have to observe that much spook acting - I think immediately of Ruth Paine emoting over JFK, that sort of horribly overdone spectacle, with all the emphases in the wrong place - has been radically unsatisfactory.

[Sid Walker]

I understand skepticism about inquiries that investigate terrorism, assassinations and/or the ludicrously misnamed 'security services'. The Hutton Inquiry was the latest fiasco. Yet arguably, the highly restrictive terms of reference was the greatest problem of all with the Hutton Inquiry - and the Warren Commission before it. Neither inquiry was assumption-free. Both were premised on the guilt of those already accused of the crimes.

If my inference is correct - and incidents such as 7/7 and the recent car bomb discoveries are some form of 'inside job' - then DEMANDING honest public inquiry which genuinely investigate these atrocities is a very useful line of defense open to the public.

It's a very reasonable demand. It puts pressure on the perpetrators.

On the other hands, if the public continues to allow Secret State Agencies to get away with spinning their narratives investigation-free, we hand them a charter to blow us up at will, like disposable pyrotechnic props.

Sid, the Lord Stevens, mentioned in the BBC report in my previous post, has (when just plain John Stevens, notice how one can also get promotions doing this work) performed 3 investigations into the murder of Pat Finucane, amongst others, but primarily Finucane. (Interesting aside, his right hand man on the first inquiry was Hugh Orde now chief of the PSNI) None of which have wholly been made public, national security and all that. A few abridged pages from Stevens 3 made it into the public domain. Despite institutionalised refusals to co-operate by MI and RUC Special Branch and the naming of many of these as murderers or puppet masters for murderers in the report, there will be no prosecutions (see Pat Finucane thread).

Demands for a public independent inquiry have been made by his family, Irish Nationalists and Republicans, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Washington etc. etc. and what....nada. Oh sorry the promise of a public inquiry was initially agreed and the wheels set in motion only for, wait for it, portions of the 'public inquiry' to be held behind closed doors and not to be made available to the report. Cory, who set the scope of the inquiry has stated many times that this is not what he had in mind when he initiated the inquiry.

Furthermore, International lawyers groups have petitioned and stated that no member of their profession should participate in this farce of an inquiry under the new pre-conditions laid down by...basically the people who carried out the murders.

Then add to that the fact that in this case, the Intelligence operatives, soldiers and police all went to court so they could not be identified and won. Appearing, behind screens as A, B etc. Their case hinging on the fact that to do so would put them in the firing line of the Provies. HA!!!!!

Put this template on top of your suggestion in your previous post and tell me that "DEMANDING honest public inquiry which genuinely investigate these atrocities is a very useful line of defense open to the public."

Unfortunately it just don't work like that, never has, never will.

Gary

I hear the frustration and the despair.

But what's the alternative?

If the public completely gives up the demand for any form of official investigative follow-up, it gives the perpetrators of false-flag murders, fake terror crimes etc a completely free hand.

Imagine if public confidence in the police and coronial system fell so low that no-one bothered to ask for a police inquiry, inquest or coroner's inquiry any more in the event of any suspicious death.

Killers would then be able to murder with complete certainty that their activities will remain uninvestigated.

What the Axis of Cynicism has achieved, in effect, is to erode faith that crimes for which it is responsible will ever be investigated properly. The justice system remains in place, but simply doesn't apply to crimes for which they choose exemption...

That's a real shocker.

Anyhow, if anyone can think of an alternative approach that may be more efficacious, I'm all ears. But it seems to me most unwise to give up on the investigative and justice system. That is exactly what these guys are counting on. They turn the intelligence and skepticism of significant sectors of the community to their own advantage. I don't think we should let them get away with it.

[Guest]

Anyhow, if anyone can think of an alternative approach that may be more efficacious, I'm all ears.

You are not all ears you are all mouth and what pours forth from that orifice is neither instructive nor helpful.

You are a fool if you believe that the religious attacks on the UK, Australia and the USA have been inspired by anything other than misguided god heads hoping for a quick route to paradise and a large number of virgins.

In answer to your question cited above the banning of the religious indoctrinination of children would be a start

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Gary

I hear the frustration and the despair.

But what's the alternative?

If the public completely gives up the demand for any form of official investigative follow-up, it gives the perpetrators of false-flag murders, fake terror crimes etc a completely free hand.

Imagine if public confidence in the police and coronial system fell so low that no-one bothered to ask for a police inquiry, inquest or coroner's inquiry any more in the event of any suspicious death.

Killers would then be able to murder with complete certainty that their activities will remain uninvestigated.

What the Axis of Cynicism has achieved, in effect, is to erode faith that crimes for which it is responsible will ever be investigated properly. The justice system remains in place, but simply doesn't apply to crimes for which they choose exemption...

That's a real shocker.

Anyhow, if anyone can think of an alternative approach that may be more efficacious, I'm all ears. But it seems to me most unwise to give up on the investigative and justice system. That is exactly what these guys are counting on. They turn the intelligence and skepticism of significant sectors of the community to their own advantage. I don't think we should let them get away with it.

Yes, I agree, ideally what you are saying is right. In my experience though people become war weary. They try and try and try...then just stop; apart from the brave few, who are to be commended. In the case of Finucane, (sorry for boring you with this, but it is IMO an exemplar case of note) the legal profession en masse, a great rump of Washington, Amnesty and many many more have taken this case. End result, stonewalled, rescoped inquiries.

How do you stop them getting away with it, when they've been getting away with it all there lives? Oy vey.

The main problem is the bulk of the population don't even realise they're the ultimate victims.

[Sid Walker]

Anyhow, if anyone can think of an alternative approach that may be more efficacious, I'm all ears.

You are not all ears you are all mouth and what pours forth from that orifice is neither instructive nor helpful.

You are a fool if you believe that the religious attacks on the UK, Australia and the USA have been inspired by anything other than misguided god heads hoping for a quick route to paradise and a large number of virgins.

In answer to your question cited above the banning of the religious indoctrinination of children would be a start

Is that right, Andy?

Well, whoever is correct about these troublesome topics, one thing I trust we can all agree about is the desirability of maintaining an accurate record of these discussions for posterity.

I therefore have a few questions for you, Andy. I had been wondering whether to start a thread about this. Your interjection provides me with an opportunity to at least flag the topic and indicate some genuine concerns.

Are you the only person who holds an archive copy of this forum - or do others have copies also? If the latter, who else?

In the event of a major system crash or - heaven forbid - a deliberate attempt to hack or take down this forum, how can we all be sure that the forum can and will be successfully restored? What happens if - heaven forbid yet again - you are run over by a London bus? What happens if the iphost.com is taken over by agents of, let's say, the 'North Korean' Government?

Once material is published on this forum, IMO, it effectively enters the public domain. I think we can be confident that various flavours of spooks have copies.

What about the public - and those who act as trustees on our behalf?

How are you protecting our interests... and ensuring historical continuity for this wonderful resource?

Edited July 1, 2007 by Sid Walker

[Sid Walker]

Anyhow, if anyone can think of an alternative approach that may be more efficacious, I'm all ears.

You are not all ears you are all mouth and what pours forth from that orifice is neither instructive nor helpful.

You are a fool if you believe that the religious attacks on the UK, Australia and the USA have been inspired by anything other than misguided god heads hoping for a quick route to paradise and a large number of virgins.

In answer to your question cited above the banning of the religious indoctrinination of children would be a start

Is that right, Andy?

Well, whoever is correct about these troublesome topics, one thing I trust we can all agree about is the desirability of maintaining an accurate record of these discussions for posterity.

I therefore have a few questions for you, Andy. I had been wondering whether to start a thread about this. Your interjection provides me with an opportunity to at least flag the topic and indicate some genuine concerns.

Are you the only person who holds an archive copy of this forum - or do others have copies also? If the latter, who else?

In the event of a major system crash or - heaven forbid - a deliberate attempt to hack or take down this forum, how can we all be sure that the forum can and will be successfully restored? What happens if - heaven forbid yet again - you are run over by a London bus? What happens if the iphost.com is taken over by agents of, let's say, the 'North Korean' Government?

Once material is published on this forum, IMO, it effectively enters the public domain. I think we can be confident that various flavours of spooks have copies.

What about the public - and those who act as trustees on our behalf?

How are you protecting our interests... and ensuring historical continuity for this wonderful resource?

I decided to start a new thread on this topic HERE, to avoid distracting this thread from its primary purpose.

[Paul Rigby]

Anyhow, if anyone can think of an alternative approach that may be more efficacious, I'm all ears.

You are not all ears you are all mouth and what pours forth from that orifice is neither instructive nor helpful.

You are a fool if you believe that the religious attacks on the UK, Australia and the USA have been inspired by anything other than misguided god heads hoping for a quick route to paradise and a large number of virgins.

In answer to your question cited above the banning of the religious indoctrinination of children would be a start

So, Andy, when do you start closing down Protestant and Catholic schools? Or is it just one form of religious indoctrination you're opposed to? The form favoured by people, say, with darker coloured skins than you?

And not inspired by anything other "misguided god heads"? You mean Saudi Arabia, the CIA and ISI didn't pump all that money into religious schools in the 80s? We imagined this?

You're attack on Sid was truly appalling stuff, unworthy even of a Sun editorial.

[Mike Tribe]

Anyhow, if anyone can think of an alternative approach that may be more efficacious, I'm all ears.

You are not all ears you are all mouth and what pours forth from that orifice is neither instructive nor helpful.

You are a fool if you believe that the religious attacks on the UK, Australia and the USA have been inspired by anything other than misguided god heads hoping for a quick route to paradise and a large number of virgins.

In answer to your question cited above the banning of the religious indoctrinination of children would be a start

Andy, when you sup with the Devil, you need a very long spoon...

On the subject of religious education/indoctrination, I'm not convinced I agree with you. For the last 30 years or so, I've taught in various American schools where the very mention of religion in a classroom is forbidden. I can't see that American society is more tolerant as a result of the separation of church and state. I would agree that any sort of single-religion approach would be bad, but when religious belief provides such a strong motivation for people across the world, perhaps it's better that the phenomenon be studied. Have a look at the IB World Religions curriculum and see if that meets your objections to religion in school...

Mr Rigby, who this morning appeared to be accusing you of racism, has either not read your many, many posts over the years, or is very silly, or is so wrapped up in the Sid Walker-type "it must all be the CIA and Mossad" mind-set that he is quite unable to realize that it IS possible to disagree with bizarre conspiracy theories without being to tool of international Zionism...

[Guest]

So, Andy, when do you start closing down Protestant and Catholic schools? Or is it just one form of religious indoctrination you're opposed to? The form favoured by people, say, with darker coloured skins than you?

This is indeed a very silly comment and thanks to Mike Tribe for pointing out how daft it is before I even got to it.

It does however highlight an important problem effecting the "liberal" west viz. exaggerated respect for religious faith. By calling islamic fundamentalism for what it is I get labelled a "racist"

I am of course opposed to all forms of religious indoctrination. After all a mad islamist of the 21st century is a mere pussy cat when compared to a christian of the old school who might tear out your entrails whilst reciting a homily for your mortal soul.

What religion does is suspend rational thought. In this way it is the very antithesis of education. Absolute dogmatic belief leads men to the most appalling acts they would never comtemplate had their minds not been filled with poisonous religious nonsense.

"Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do.... B Russell"

[Guest David Guyatt]

Hello, ‘ello, ‘ello. What’s all this, then? Amen.

Goodness gracious me! Its raining international Zionism? I thought that the bucket-loads of recent rain looked strange but I didn’t clue into the fact it had been circumcised. Thanks for pointing that out. I’ll rest easier at night now.

But before we slide off into indoctrination and the never-never-land of disinformation, might I just mention how terribly religious it was of the CIA, and the equally religious Freemasonic lodge P2 (that wasn’t a freemasonic lodge at all) to commence their Strategy of Tension in Italy back in the 1970’s and 1980’s.

I realise the irrelevance of including this here and now because, well, back then that strategy included bombs being set off by both the nasty Red Brigade and the slightly less nasty Black Brigade (fascism being a great deal more preferable to communism because they believe in God, don’t ya’ know -- just my bias showing. :-> ).

And then, blow me down, we find out that the people pulling the Italian puppet strings were God fearing NATO and the CIA – using Gladio types. But at least they were Christian CIA and NATO and Gladio types. Praise the Lord.

And I say unto you, if so ever you wander into the wilderness, be sure to join the 2nd Crusade Re-enactment Society, where you’ll enjoy spending your weekends brushing your white chargers, burnishing your replicate armour and whet-stoning your trusty long swords as you gird up thy loins and prepare to chase down the infidel.

Here endeth the first lesson….

Please teacher, can we get back to the subject in hand?

Thank you.

Signed

Teachers pet.

David

PS, a further observation I have is about SkyNews who, without providing any proof or corroboration whatsoever, jumped straight into editorialising about al-queda being responsible for the recent car bombs (that would be the al-Queda that we the Anglo-American community of God fearing covert operatives and Pakistan’s ISI sort of, well, founded…)

Answers please on a Keffiyah.

PPS, talking of public enquiries and law lords who couldn’t find their buttons in a brothel, I’d like to offer the name of the Right Honourable Sir Richard Scott (who almost immediately after became Lord Justice Sir Richard Scott and who is now Lord Scott of Foscote) of the Scott Enquiry.

I took the trouble to read the whole report when it was first published (yes, I know I should get out more often). Very revealing it was too – although you’d never believe it from the conclusions drawn by Scott and the media.

For the record, I mention the name M V Tara (that’s a boat btw, “Marine Vessel”, in fact).

Has anyone actually seen what a 155mm Discarding Sabot Shell (DSS) can do to a tank – specifically a British or American tank when hit by these shells made courtesy of our very own Royal Ordnance and fired from Saddam’s guns? Not even a mille-second to say Amen or phone ones loved ones to say bon voyage, before being incinerated in a storm of molten metal.

What I say is thank God for the Government Export Guarantee Scheme, the ECGD that insures British exports to naughty regimes. Where would British exporters be without it?

Edited July 2, 2007 by David Guyatt

[Sid Walker]

Anyhow, if anyone can think of an alternative approach that may be more efficacious, I'm all ears.

You are not all ears you are all mouth and what pours forth from that orifice is neither instructive nor helpful.

You are a fool if you believe that the religious attacks on the UK, Australia and the USA have been inspired by anything other than misguided god heads hoping for a quick route to paradise and a large number of virgins.

In answer to your question cited above the banning of the religious indoctrinination of children would be a start

So, Andy, when do you start closing down Protestant and Catholic schools? Or is it just one form of religious indoctrination you're opposed to? The form favoured by people, say, with darker coloured skins than you?

And not inspired by anything other "misguided god heads"? You mean Saudi Arabia, the CIA and ISI didn't pump all that money into religious schools in the 80s? We imagined this?

You're attack on Sid was truly appalling stuff, unworthy even of a Sun editorial.

Thanks Paul.

But compared with some past performances, Andy's cuffing was rather mild.

Check him out when he gets really riled.

[Guest David Guyatt]

Since no evidence or corroboration of claims is required by SkyNews, in the advance of balanced reporting might I suggest the below additional Wikipedia entry for the Dirty Digger:

"Billionaire media mogual who made a fortune stuffing his mates and changing his allegaiances and bowing to pressure in the Land of Oz. Part of his wealth derived from, according to some, a quantity of gold plundered by the Axis powers during WWII and later plundered by the OSS-cum-CIA who placed quantities of the metal in Australian bank/s for application and identification uses that was allegedly used to back all sorts of dirty tricks campaigns, nefarious funding and covert operations (Pine Gap base Alice Springs whispered to be one beneficiary of largesse from this quarter)".

There is no absolute evidence to back this (albeit some (questionable?) copies of docs showing Australian bank deposits of metal -- but then again there are holes in the Digger's figures relating to his accumulation of wealth. See my old semi-mate's book "Murdoch: Decline of an Empire" (Richard Belfield, Christopher Hird, Sharon Kelly - MacDonald 1991). I haven't read it but I was told about the financial black hole by one of the authors.

David

[Guest]

Please teacher, can we get back to the subject in hand?

Thank you.

Signed

Teachers pet.

The subject in hand you strange boy is a discussion thread about the recent terrorist incidents in London and Glasgow. What you are chuntering on about is anyone's guess.