Locked Topics: Deleted Topics

[Myra Bronstein]

In that I have participated in "very few" internet forums, I am somewhat at a loss regarding the verbage.

Is the difference between "locking" a topic and "deleting" a topic in any way comparable to the difference between "banning" books and "Burning" books?

I did not follow the topic in question so I really have no involvement in other than what I consider "acceptable procedure".

Is there a list of topics that are banned? Where is it located ? How would one be allowed for example to ban my ideas and yet say that I am still a forum citizen? I feel that deletion of written material, is not at all unlike burning it, and is a quite serious affront to ones "human" rights.

Self deleting a topic as a result of the use of or the threat of the use of force by another party, seems to root itself in the dark ages. I can understand censorship of what may generally be accepted as foul language, to protect members of the forum who have the "right" to not be subjected to this.

In my opinion, deletion of a topic is not that different than deletion of an individual. If a person is not basically the sum of his thoughts and beliefs....what then is he ?

I realize that this forum does not masquerade as a "democracy", but judges here (the moderators), who have never been accepted as qualified by those whom they are moderating, seems unlike any organization, other than the Army, with which I have ever been associated. Even clubs and fraternal organizations have the privilege of choosing someone such as a "seargent of arms" who is acceptable to at least the majority.

As I said earlier, I have no knowledge of the topic in question or even care to.

I am strongly opposed to censorship based only on the popularity or acceptance of a given opinion, which is based solely on another's given opinion.

How is this form of "moderation" kept from becoming censorship of ideas....who has the right to censor my or anyones ideas? The "proprietor" of this forum has the right to accept or reject members, But the rejection of a MEMBERS ideas, yet allowing someone to remain a member, is a travesty. It is telling someone that you can be a member of my debating team, but you will not be allowed to speak !

In my dictionary, moderation is not synonymous with coerced control!

Who needs this type of abuse while engaging in a function that is supposed to be both pleasureable and stimulating ?

Either I have completely missed the boat, or this is an definite attempt to supress the expression of personal thought. National Security secrets are not being exposed. Only thoughts that the societies from which we all derive deem acceptable, are in question here ! WHY ?

I am not preaching "Anarchy"....but I see no way that the terms moderator and supressor can in any way be linked.

What did that crazy colonial rebel say appx. 230 years ago? Something about "Give me liberty or...."?

Charles Black

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"What did that crazy colonial rebel say appx. 230 years ago? Something about "Give me liberty or...."?"

"...or give me a locked topic that I'm still able to view, and after having reviewed the content of the thread, can draw my own conclusions as to why it was, in effect, subjected to "locked" status in the first place."

You might then be given a choice of addressing it with all of the moderators, or those who took part in the consensus of making the decision to lock it. You could then state your case as to the merits of re-opening the topic, and why you believe you might possibly have some constructive information to offer or impart, as a way of keeping it on track, above the level of flame-war status, and could possibly guarantee it not be allowed to degenerate to the level of contention that warranted its being relegated to "locked" status.

You might even be able to view the "locked" status of a topic as a sort of "chill out" period, or what is it that parents require of their squabbling children, instead of having to slap the hell out of them, "T," for TIME OUT? A helluva lot of good that would have done my old lady. We never would've even heard her had it not been for the flying slippers, dish-rags, and assorted items that could never really have caused damage to the house itself, per se, but sure in hell stung when it hit its target. Got our attention REAL fast.

Good input Terry.

[John Dolva]

Charles B: "Give me liberty or...."

Terry: "...or give me a locked topic that I'm still able to view, and after having reviewed the content of the thread, can draw my own conclusions..."

...and the good portions of the topic would remain available, as well as a record would be maintained of participants (evolving) personas.

[Terry Mauro]

Charles B: "Give me liberty or...."

Terry: "...or give me a locked topic that I'm still able to view, and after having reviewed the content of the thread, can draw my own conclusions..."

...and the good portions of the topic would remain available, as well as a record would be maintained of participants (evolving) personas.

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"...and the good portions of the topic would remain available, as well as a record would be maintained of participants (evolving) personas."

Exactomundo, J.D. The documentation is crucial to the management of the forum, as far as I'm concerned. Especially with regard to those disreputable disruptees. Why not utilize the forums full capabilities for record keeping. Those who have the tendency to commit multiple infractions could be monitored and graphed as to frequency, time of the month, full moon, or whatever other factors came into play during the time of the outbursts. It would be interesting to follow up on it and see how it checks out. Another "research" project!

Edited July 1, 2007 by Terry Mauro

[John Dolva]

Charles B: "Give me liberty or...."

Terry: "...or give me a locked topic that I'm still able to view, and after having reviewed the content of the thread, can draw my own conclusions..."

...and the good portions of the topic would remain available, as well as a record would be maintained of participants (evolving) personas.

*********************************************************

"...and the good portions of the topic would remain available, as well as a record would be maintained of participants (evolving) personas."

Exactomundo, J.D. The documentation is crucial to the management of the forum, as far as I'm concerned. Especially with regard to those disreputable disruptees. Why not utilize the forums full capabilities for record keeping. Those who have the tendency to commit multiple infractions could be monitored and graphed as to frequency, time of the month, full moon, or whatever other factors came into play during the time of the outbursts. It would be interesting to follow up on it and see how it checks out. Another "research" project!

John Simkin, thank you for alerting about locking and subsequent deletion of topics in three days. Much appreciated. As you point out there is much discreditable nonsense, and while, in a sense, all has some historical interest simply by being there, at least one gets an opportunity to save that which does have value.

So, thank you again for the pre-delete alert. John D.

Edited July 4, 2007 by John Dolva

[Evan Burton]

Excuse me for intruding as such, but I really don't see why such a fuss is being made over some threads being locked.

The posts are still there, and you can download them at will.

If you feel you have to respond to a poster, you can PM them with a reply.

If you feel a thread is of such importance that it should be unlocked, you can ask the mods, John S, or Andy W.

Just my opinion.

[John Dolva]

Excuse me for intruding as such, but I really don't see why such a fuss is being made over some threads being locked.

The posts are still there, and you can download them at will.

If you feel you have to respond to a poster, you can PM them with a reply.

If you feel a thread is of such importance that it should be unlocked, you can ask the mods, John S, or Andy W.

Just my opinion.

(IMO none should be deleted and all locks would be a result of consensus amongst at least three mods with John making final descicions where consensus is not reached.)

Evan. as far as I am concerned the 'fuss'* is not about locking topics

(*Fuzz?)

As you say they can be unlocked.

The concern AFAI'm concerned it's the unannounced deletion of topics (which happens very seldom, perhaps only once AFAIK) and therefore the deletion of, albeit possibly a small number of posts in relation to the ones that caused the lock/delete in the first place, that are then lost.

To some they are of value.

Locking and deleteing are two different matters.

John has indicated a middle ground with lock and a pre-announced delete where he considers it warranted.

That's a reasonable way.

(Unfortunately the MO is now in place for ruining and thus causing topic deletions: "whether sought or unsought, we must guard against the unwarranted power and influence of the fotum moderation complex.")

Edited July 6, 2007 by John Dolva