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Who wants to play: "HIDE THE KEY"


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First off, this is not a "game" for amateurs!

Secondly, those who "designed" the game, were most proficient at their process.

Thirdly, while the unsuspecting have been lead to look for mythological creatures, the answers have always existed, for those willing to truly research for them, as well as expend the time and effort to decipher the often "secret" codes.

Fourthly, if one does not have the experience and training to avoid "booby traps", then they should either not play the game, or else seek the experience of those who have been trained in recognition and evaluation of the "trail".

Lastly, One can rest assured that I personally would not follow anyone into the jungle/maze who informed me that the jungle was full of "body snatchers" and assassins behind every tree and bush; on top of every tree; and hiding in completely un-inhabitable "spider/man" holes.

With that out of the way! Many, many mistakes were still made by the "GameMaster"!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Frazier, referring to Commission Exhibit No. 886, did you view through the sight that depicted in "photograph through rifle scope" on the positioning of the Presidential limousine or the car to simulate the limousine at position A?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; this would be the first position that an individual in that sixth floor window could sight at the car due to the interference of the window ledge of the building and the fact that the angle downward is limited by the partially lowered window.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, as has been previously explained, "Position "A"" served no purpose other than to give Mr. Robert West a new and different Starting Point for his survey work for the WC.

Previous work for the US SS as well as the FBI, had well established the assigned stationing (footage distances) as well as elevations down the center of Elm St.

By beginning their survey work at "Position A", the WC would have had completely different stationing numbers from that of the previously and relatively accurate work by the SS/FBI.

However, Mr. West, knowing that he already had accurate data for the Elm St. profile, merely took the footage measurements from "Position A", and, in his handwritten notes, converted these positions to the Stationing number which he had assigned during the December 1963 accurate survey of Elm St.

Were it not for this slight error/oversight on the part of the WC, one would never be able to distinguish the problems associated with the WC and their survey stationing numbers for the impact point of the Z312/313 headshot and the written word of the SS which escaped detection and identified for all the impact location of the third/last/final shot down in front of James Altgens.

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First off, this is not a "game" for amateurs!

Secondly, those who "designed" the game, were most proficient at their process.

Thirdly, while the unsuspecting have been lead to look for mythological creatures, the answers have always existed, for those willing to truly research for them, as well as expend the time and effort to decipher the often "secret" codes.

Fourthly, if one does not have the experience and training to avoid "booby traps", then they should either not play the game, or else seek the experience of those who have been trained in recognition and evaluation of the "trail".

Lastly, One can rest assured that I personally would not follow anyone into the jungle/maze who informed me that the jungle was full of "body snatchers" and assassins behind every tree and bush; on top of every tree; and hiding in completely un-inhabitable "spider/man" holes.

With that out of the way! Many, many mistakes were still made by the "GameMaster"!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Frazier, referring to Commission Exhibit No. 886, did you view through the sight that depicted in "photograph through rifle scope" on the positioning of the Presidential limousine or the car to simulate the limousine at position A?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; this would be the first position that an individual in that sixth floor window could sight at the car due to the interference of the window ledge of the building and the fact that the angle downward is limited by the partially lowered window.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, as has been previously explained, "Position "A"" served no purpose other than to give Mr. Robert West a new and different Starting Point for his survey work for the WC.

Previous work for the US SS as well as the FBI, had well established the assigned stationing (footage distances) as well as elevations down the center of Elm St.

By beginning their survey work at "Position A", the WC would have had completely different stationing numbers from that of the previously and relatively accurate work by the SS/FBI.

However, Mr. West, knowing that he already had accurate data for the Elm St. profile, merely took the footage measurements from "Position A", and, in his handwritten notes, converted these positions to the Stationing number which he had assigned during the December 1963 accurate survey of Elm St.

Were it not for this slight error/oversight on the part of the WC, one would never be able to distinguish the problems associated with the WC and their survey stationing numbers for the impact point of the Z312/313 headshot and the written word of the SS which escaped detection and identified for all the impact location of the third/last/final shot down in front of James Altgens.

================================================================================

===

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

An additional item which the WC had Mr. West accomplish, merely added additional confusion into the already confused equation.

This was the computations for the true angles and elevations to what would have been the head of JFK.

And, although the WC photographs demonstrate an aiming point on the Presidential Stand-in (which was some 10-inches higher than that point would have been on JFK), Mr. West, in his computations, took the street elevations of those various identified frames of the Z-film, added to this the height of the JFK stand-in, and then subtracted from this the difference of the 10-inch height differential.

That alone should lose most who do not understand survey principals.

Therefore, the downward angles and distances, as ultimately computed by Mr. West, are accurate for an aiming elevation of the head of JFK.

However! one can not look at the survey data block and determine the street elevation for any of the plotted Z-frames, as the street elevation was omitted from this block.

And, without knowing the EXACT "corrections" which were applied, one can have no means by which to determine the street elevations for those points as demonstrated in the Survey Data Block.

In addition to this added bit of confusion, the manner in which the Survey Data Block presents the downward angle of fire, would also confuse most.

This downward angle of fire is presented as being "ANGLE TO HORIZON"---K(Kennedy)/ R(Rifle)/ H(Horizon)

NOPE!

This is the actual computed downward angle of fire from the rifle to the elevation of JFK's head.

As example: In the Survey Data Block for Z207 we see this R-K-H as being 21 degrees and 50 minutes.

This is in fact the exact downward angle of fire, as computed by Mr. West, for Z207, and includes the actual downward angle of fire from the rifle in the window to the elevation of JFK's head.

Nevertheless, actual street elevations at Z-frames & impact points is an essential element of information in this equation.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0144b.htm

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464a.htm

I am most certain that few would have any difficulty in determination of the street elevations by examination of this wonderful evidence!

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The "Physical Security" (aka "Lockpicking") School has a good lesson in frustration.

Say for instance one has "A" key, which is of course totally unidentifiable as to manufacturer.

And, one has an item of value with some 1,000 + locks to it, all of which are progressively locked together into a "chain" of locks, and then interlocked back into itself at given points.

The "Key" is guaranteed to open at least 1 (one) of the 1,000 + locks which will give access, but due to the fact that it is a reproduction (no code/markings) it can not be determined which or how many locks it will open, and it is also subject to frequently "hanging" even in that/those locks that it will actually open.

So, how does one go about determining exactly what lock(s) the key will actually open?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Herein lies a "lock"!

For those who desire to "play the game", this "key" may be of some assistance.

Looks as if the Key hid itself upon the first attempt!

Edited by Thomas H. Purvis
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It is also quite frustrating when someone throws in a "ringer" which don't fit nothing, and one has to attempt to figure out exactly what that was all about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringer

"In role playing games, a player character who is a direct or near-direct copy of a character in a work of popular fiction (derived from "dead ringer") "

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However, if one is either dedicated enough (or stupid enough) to persist, then a few doors/locks may ultimately be opened.

Of course that is no guarantee that one will even recognize what they have found.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Without re-posting, those who have attempted to follow this bouncing ball should recall that the street elevation of Z313 was previously given as being elevation 418.48

The "Drommer" survey random elevation for this position was given as elevation 88.8

A difference of 329.68.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Street elevation for Z255 as surveyed in by Mr. Robert West during the WC re-enactment:-------------El: 421.19

Minus Drommer correction/adjustment factor:--------------------------------------------------------------El: 329.68

Approximate Drommer Elevation:-------------------- 91.51

================================================================================

====

Well well! What a complete coincidence, we do have a street elevation of 91.5 on the Drommer Survey, which happens to be located in the center of Elm St, shortly prior to the lamp post.

It would appear that at least one additional lock has opened.

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First off, this is not a "game" for amateurs!

Secondly, those who "designed" the game, were most proficient at their process.

Thirdly, while the unsuspecting have been lead to look for mythological creatures, the answers have always existed, for those willing to truly research for them, as well as expend the time and effort to decipher the often "secret" codes.

Fourthly, if one does not have the experience and training to avoid "booby traps", then they should either not play the game, or else seek the experience of those who have been trained in recognition and evaluation of the "trail".

Lastly, One can rest assured that I personally would not follow anyone into the jungle/maze who informed me that the jungle was full of "body snatchers" and assassins behind every tree and bush; on top of every tree; and hiding in completely un-inhabitable "spider/man" holes.

With that out of the way! Many, many mistakes were still made by the "GameMaster"!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Frazier, referring to Commission Exhibit No. 886, did you view through the sight that depicted in "photograph through rifle scope" on the positioning of the Presidential limousine or the car to simulate the limousine at position A?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; this would be the first position that an individual in that sixth floor window could sight at the car due to the interference of the window ledge of the building and the fact that the angle downward is limited by the partially lowered window.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, as has been previously explained, "Position "A"" served no purpose other than to give Mr. Robert West a new and different Starting Point for his survey work for the WC.

Previous work for the US SS as well as the FBI, had well established the assigned stationing (footage distances) as well as elevations down the center of Elm St.

By beginning their survey work at "Position A", the WC would have had completely different stationing numbers from that of the previously and relatively accurate work by the SS/FBI.

However, Mr. West, knowing that he already had accurate data for the Elm St. profile, merely took the footage measurements from "Position A", and, in his handwritten notes, converted these positions to the Stationing number which he had assigned during the December 1963 accurate survey of Elm St.

Were it not for this slight error/oversight on the part of the WC, one would never be able to distinguish the problems associated with the WC and their survey stationing numbers for the impact point of the Z312/313 headshot and the written word of the SS which escaped detection and identified for all the impact location of the third/last/final shot down in front of James Altgens.

Tom,

CE875 excerpt:

"no picture was taken at 5+00 mark as this was about 4 feet from impact of the third shot"

If they didn't take any pictures or make any stops at 4+96, they sure did come close. imo

Notice the amount of car stops between approx 313 and Altgen's.

chris

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First off, this is not a "game" for amateurs!

Secondly, those who "designed" the game, were most proficient at their process.

Thirdly, while the unsuspecting have been lead to look for mythological creatures, the answers have always existed, for those willing to truly research for them, as well as expend the time and effort to decipher the often "secret" codes.

Fourthly, if one does not have the experience and training to avoid "booby traps", then they should either not play the game, or else seek the experience of those who have been trained in recognition and evaluation of the "trail".

Lastly, One can rest assured that I personally would not follow anyone into the jungle/maze who informed me that the jungle was full of "body snatchers" and assassins behind every tree and bush; on top of every tree; and hiding in completely un-inhabitable "spider/man" holes.

With that out of the way! Many, many mistakes were still made by the "GameMaster"!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Frazier, referring to Commission Exhibit No. 886, did you view through the sight that depicted in "photograph through rifle scope" on the positioning of the Presidential limousine or the car to simulate the limousine at position A?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; this would be the first position that an individual in that sixth floor window could sight at the car due to the interference of the window ledge of the building and the fact that the angle downward is limited by the partially lowered window.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, as has been previously explained, "Position "A"" served no purpose other than to give Mr. Robert West a new and different Starting Point for his survey work for the WC.

Previous work for the US SS as well as the FBI, had well established the assigned stationing (footage distances) as well as elevations down the center of Elm St.

By beginning their survey work at "Position A", the WC would have had completely different stationing numbers from that of the previously and relatively accurate work by the SS/FBI.

However, Mr. West, knowing that he already had accurate data for the Elm St. profile, merely took the footage measurements from "Position A", and, in his handwritten notes, converted these positions to the Stationing number which he had assigned during the December 1963 accurate survey of Elm St.

Were it not for this slight error/oversight on the part of the WC, one would never be able to distinguish the problems associated with the WC and their survey stationing numbers for the impact point of the Z312/313 headshot and the written word of the SS which escaped detection and identified for all the impact location of the third/last/final shot down in front of James Altgens.

================================================================================

===

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

An additional item which the WC had Mr. West accomplish, merely added additional confusion into the already confused equation.

This was the computations for the true angles and elevations to what would have been the head of JFK.

And, although the WC photographs demonstrate an aiming point on the Presidential Stand-in (which was some 10-inches higher than that point would have been on JFK), Mr. West, in his computations, took the street elevations of those various identified frames of the Z-film, added to this the height of the JFK stand-in, and then subtracted from this the difference of the 10-inch height differential.

That alone should lose most who do not understand survey principals.

Therefore, the downward angles and distances, as ultimately computed by Mr. West, are accurate for an aiming elevation of the head of JFK.

However! one can not look at the survey data block and determine the street elevation for any of the plotted Z-frames, as the street elevation was omitted from this block.

And, without knowing the EXACT "corrections" which were applied, one can have no means by which to determine the street elevations for those points as demonstrated in the Survey Data Block.

In addition to this added bit of confusion, the manner in which the Survey Data Block presents the downward angle of fire, would also confuse most.

This downward angle of fire is presented as being "ANGLE TO HORIZON"---K(Kennedy)/ R(Rifle)/ H(Horizon)

NOPE!

This is the actual computed downward angle of fire from the rifle to the elevation of JFK's head.

As example: In the Survey Data Block for Z207 we see this R-K-H as being 21 degrees and 50 minutes.

This is in fact the exact downward angle of fire, as computed by Mr. West, for Z207, and includes the actual downward angle of fire from the rifle in the window to the elevation of JFK's head.

Nevertheless, actual street elevations at Z-frames & impact points is an essential element of information in this equation.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0144b.htm

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464a.htm

I am most certain that few would have any difficulty in determination of the street elevations by examination of this wonderful evidence!

Provided for the benefit of those who are of the opinion that I have nothing better to do in life than sit around and make up this stuff.

P.S. The red notation at the top was written during the questioning of Mr. West at his home.

There were so many survey notes (Time/Life---SS---FBI---WC) that in order to keep them straight, I presented them to Mr. West and we discussed various aspects of them.

I thereafter wrote in red pen at the top of each set of notes in attempt to keep it all straight in my own mind.

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First off, this is not a "game" for amateurs!

Secondly, those who "designed" the game, were most proficient at their process.

Thirdly, while the unsuspecting have been lead to look for mythological creatures, the answers have always existed, for those willing to truly research for them, as well as expend the time and effort to decipher the often "secret" codes.

Fourthly, if one does not have the experience and training to avoid "booby traps", then they should either not play the game, or else seek the experience of those who have been trained in recognition and evaluation of the "trail".

Lastly, One can rest assured that I personally would not follow anyone into the jungle/maze who informed me that the jungle was full of "body snatchers" and assassins behind every tree and bush; on top of every tree; and hiding in completely un-inhabitable "spider/man" holes.

With that out of the way! Many, many mistakes were still made by the "GameMaster"!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Frazier, referring to Commission Exhibit No. 886, did you view through the sight that depicted in "photograph through rifle scope" on the positioning of the Presidential limousine or the car to simulate the limousine at position A?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; this would be the first position that an individual in that sixth floor window could sight at the car due to the interference of the window ledge of the building and the fact that the angle downward is limited by the partially lowered window.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, as has been previously explained, "Position "A"" served no purpose other than to give Mr. Robert West a new and different Starting Point for his survey work for the WC.

Previous work for the US SS as well as the FBI, had well established the assigned stationing (footage distances) as well as elevations down the center of Elm St.

By beginning their survey work at "Position A", the WC would have had completely different stationing numbers from that of the previously and relatively accurate work by the SS/FBI.

However, Mr. West, knowing that he already had accurate data for the Elm St. profile, merely took the footage measurements from "Position A", and, in his handwritten notes, converted these positions to the Stationing number which he had assigned during the December 1963 accurate survey of Elm St.

Were it not for this slight error/oversight on the part of the WC, one would never be able to distinguish the problems associated with the WC and their survey stationing numbers for the impact point of the Z312/313 headshot and the written word of the SS which escaped detection and identified for all the impact location of the third/last/final shot down in front of James Altgens.

Tom,

CE875 excerpt:

"no picture was taken at 5+00 mark as this was about 4 feet from impact of the third shot"

If they didn't take any pictures or make any stops at 4+96, they sure did come close. imo

Notice the amount of car stops between approx 313 and Altgen's.

chris

Chris;

For the SS work, Mr. West initially established the stationing/footage numbers for Elm St. as well as the elevation control.

Then, during the re-enactment, the SS stopped the vehicle at each of the 25 foot marks which Mr. West had established.

(these are the small "+" marks on the survey plat, located in the center of the street).

Photo's were taken at each of the 25 foot marks, as well as the impact points for each of the three shots fired.

However, since the last shot was so close (within 4 to 5 feet) of the 5+00 stationing, there was no photo taken at this position.

If you will look, the portion of the larger WC survey plat which is posted and demonstrates Z255 also has these "+" marks as well, each of which represents 25 feet of separation from one to the next.

This goes back to exactly how Mr. West "tied" in the Position "A".

It was not in the center lane (in right hand lane), but it was directly in alignment with one of the "+" marks and was actually at stationing 2+75 or 2+77 (can not recall exactly).

Then, when Mr. West got back to the center of the street for the WC, he had his established stationing from the SS re-enactment to go by.

Hope that is not too much info in that it confuses.

Tom

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Mr. SHANEYFELT. The first position we established that morning was frame 161.

Mr. SPECTER. Was there not a position established prior in sequence to frame 161, specifically that designated as position A?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. That was actually established later. But the first one to be actually located was 161. And we went back later and positioned point A.

Mr. SPECTER. Well, let's start with the position which is the most easterly point on Elm Street, which I believe would be position A, would it not?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Which lead to Mr. West utilizing the established station numbers on Elm St., as he had no other reference point.

Which lead to Mr. West having created a "FATAL ERROR" on the part of exposing the WC Magic Show!

================================================================================

===

Mr. SHANEYFELT. This shows the photograph that was made from the point where Zapruder was standing looking toward the car, and is a point that we have designated as position A because it is in a position that did not appear on the Zapruder film

The Zapruder film does not start until the car gets farther down Elm Street.

Mr. SHANEYFELT. What is that exhibit number?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Exhibit No. 886.

Mr. SPECTER. And why was that location selected for the position of the car?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. This location was selected as the first point at which a person in the sixth floor window of the Book Building at our control point could have gotten a shot at the President after the car had rounded the corner from Houston to Elm.

Mr. SPECTER. And what position is station C?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Station C is on a line drawn along the west curb line of Houston Street in a direct line, and station C is at a point along that line that is in line with where the car would have turned coming around that corner. It is on a line which is an extension of the west curb line of Houston Street.

Mr. DULLES. Where is position A on that chart?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Despite what many think, Mr. Dulles WAS NOT informed of the rules of the game, was not a player in the game, but was most certainly going to get blamed for much of the actions.

By the way, did anyone else manage to find exactly where "Position "A"" was by having read the WC Report?

That is why the topic subject is "HIDE THE KEY"!

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First off, this is not a "game" for amateurs!

Secondly, those who "designed" the game, were most proficient at their process.

Thirdly, while the unsuspecting have been lead to look for mythological creatures, the answers have always existed, for those willing to truly research for them, as well as expend the time and effort to decipher the often "secret" codes.

Fourthly, if one does not have the experience and training to avoid "booby traps", then they should either not play the game, or else seek the experience of those who have been trained in recognition and evaluation of the "trail".

Lastly, One can rest assured that I personally would not follow anyone into the jungle/maze who informed me that the jungle was full of "body snatchers" and assassins behind every tree and bush; on top of every tree; and hiding in completely un-inhabitable "spider/man" holes.

With that out of the way! Many, many mistakes were still made by the "GameMaster"!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Frazier, referring to Commission Exhibit No. 886, did you view through the sight that depicted in "photograph through rifle scope" on the positioning of the Presidential limousine or the car to simulate the limousine at position A?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; this would be the first position that an individual in that sixth floor window could sight at the car due to the interference of the window ledge of the building and the fact that the angle downward is limited by the partially lowered window.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, as has been previously explained, "Position "A"" served no purpose other than to give Mr. Robert West a new and different Starting Point for his survey work for the WC.

Previous work for the US SS as well as the FBI, had well established the assigned stationing (footage distances) as well as elevations down the center of Elm St.

By beginning their survey work at "Position A", the WC would have had completely different stationing numbers from that of the previously and relatively accurate work by the SS/FBI.

However, Mr. West, knowing that he already had accurate data for the Elm St. profile, merely took the footage measurements from "Position A", and, in his handwritten notes, converted these positions to the Stationing number which he had assigned during the December 1963 accurate survey of Elm St.

Were it not for this slight error/oversight on the part of the WC, one would never be able to distinguish the problems associated with the WC and their survey stationing numbers for the impact point of the Z312/313 headshot and the written word of the SS which escaped detection and identified for all the impact location of the third/last/final shot down in front of James Altgens.

Tom,

CE875 excerpt:

"no picture was taken at 5+00 mark as this was about 4 feet from impact of the third shot"

If they didn't take any pictures or make any stops at 4+96, they sure did come close. imo

Notice the amount of car stops between approx 313 and Altgen's.

chris

Chris;

For the SS work, Mr. West initially established the stationing/footage numbers for Elm St. as well as the elevation control.

Then, during the re-enactment, the SS stopped the vehicle at each of the 25 foot marks which Mr. West had established.

(these are the small "+" marks on the survey plat, located in the center of the street).

Photo's were taken at each of the 25 foot marks, as well as the impact points for each of the three shots fired.

However, since the last shot was so close (within 4 to 5 feet) of the 5+00 stationing, there was no photo taken at this position.

If you will look, the portion of the larger WC survey plat which is posted and demonstrates Z255 also has these "+" marks as well, each of which represents 25 feet of separation from one to the next.

This goes back to exactly how Mr. West "tied" in the Position "A".

It was not in the center lane (in right hand lane), but it was directly in alignment with one of the "+" marks and was actually at stationing 2+75 or 2+77 (can not recall exactly).

Then, when Mr. West got back to the center of the street for the WC, he had his established stationing from the SS re-enactment to go by.

Hope that is not too much info in that it confuses.

Tom

Not at all.

Keep spoonfeeding.

thanks

chris

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First off, this is not a "game" for amateurs!

Secondly, those who "designed" the game, were most proficient at their process.

Thirdly, while the unsuspecting have been lead to look for mythological creatures, the answers have always existed, for those willing to truly research for them, as well as expend the time and effort to decipher the often "secret" codes.

Fourthly, if one does not have the experience and training to avoid "booby traps", then they should either not play the game, or else seek the experience of those who have been trained in recognition and evaluation of the "trail".

Lastly, One can rest assured that I personally would not follow anyone into the jungle/maze who informed me that the jungle was full of "body snatchers" and assassins behind every tree and bush; on top of every tree; and hiding in completely un-inhabitable "spider/man" holes.

With that out of the way! Many, many mistakes were still made by the "GameMaster"!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Frazier, referring to Commission Exhibit No. 886, did you view through the sight that depicted in "photograph through rifle scope" on the positioning of the Presidential limousine or the car to simulate the limousine at position A?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; this would be the first position that an individual in that sixth floor window could sight at the car due to the interference of the window ledge of the building and the fact that the angle downward is limited by the partially lowered window.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, as has been previously explained, "Position "A"" served no purpose other than to give Mr. Robert West a new and different Starting Point for his survey work for the WC.

Previous work for the US SS as well as the FBI, had well established the assigned stationing (footage distances) as well as elevations down the center of Elm St.

By beginning their survey work at "Position A", the WC would have had completely different stationing numbers from that of the previously and relatively accurate work by the SS/FBI.

However, Mr. West, knowing that he already had accurate data for the Elm St. profile, merely took the footage measurements from "Position A", and, in his handwritten notes, converted these positions to the Stationing number which he had assigned during the December 1963 accurate survey of Elm St.

Were it not for this slight error/oversight on the part of the WC, one would never be able to distinguish the problems associated with the WC and their survey stationing numbers for the impact point of the Z312/313 headshot and the written word of the SS which escaped detection and identified for all the impact location of the third/last/final shot down in front of James Altgens.

Tom,

CE875 excerpt:

"no picture was taken at 5+00 mark as this was about 4 feet from impact of the third shot"

If they didn't take any pictures or make any stops at 4+96, they sure did come close. imo

Notice the amount of car stops between approx 313 and Altgen's.

chris

Chris;

For the SS work, Mr. West initially established the stationing/footage numbers for Elm St. as well as the elevation control.

Then, during the re-enactment, the SS stopped the vehicle at each of the 25 foot marks which Mr. West had established.

(these are the small "+" marks on the survey plat, located in the center of the street).

Photo's were taken at each of the 25 foot marks, as well as the impact points for each of the three shots fired.

However, since the last shot was so close (within 4 to 5 feet) of the 5+00 stationing, there was no photo taken at this position.

If you will look, the portion of the larger WC survey plat which is posted and demonstrates Z255 also has these "+" marks as well, each of which represents 25 feet of separation from one to the next.

This goes back to exactly how Mr. West "tied" in the Position "A".

It was not in the center lane (in right hand lane), but it was directly in alignment with one of the "+" marks and was actually at stationing 2+75 or 2+77 (can not recall exactly).

Then, when Mr. West got back to the center of the street for the WC, he had his established stationing from the SS re-enactment to go by.

Hope that is not too much info in that it confuses.

Tom

Not at all.

Keep spoonfeeding.

thanks

chris

Keep spoonfeeding

Nah!

"Spoonfeeding" reminds me to much of "Pablum" which does not require one to even chew on it.

Although strictly my own personal preference, I would prefer to reference to it as either STEAK & POTATOES, T-BONE, or PRIME RIB.

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