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Fleming ... Ian Fleming


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Guest David Guyatt

David,

Given your background on investigating Nazi gold, do you see any portholes of interest in Fleming's Goldfinger, and more significantly, his last story, Octopussy?

The story concerns a retired former British naval commander living in a beach house on the North Shore of Jamaica who is visited by James Bond, a government inspector investigating the theft of Nazi gold by British officers.

The man is given the option of being arrested, tried and his family and name ruined, or committing suicide, which he does by swimming in his private lagoon and getting stung by a poisonious sea creature.

While Fleming died of a heart attack while playing golf (There's another Conspiracy golf), his son Casper had a lot of problems, and I think he committed suicide at Goldeneye, Fleming's Jamacian beach house.

David, you can't not go there,

BK

William,

One of the areas I was investigating on the gold front concerned an entity by the name of Jardine Fleming. The connections here spread far and wide but on the one hand they led to the privately controlled huge multinational Jardine Matheson (the fortune was based on Opium) that has a rather large stake in HSBC bank, I believe. On the other hand, it led to City merchant bank Robert Fleming. In 1999, Jardine Matheson acquired a stake in Robert Fleming.

The common denominator here is Scotland. HSBC, Jardine and Fleming -- all Scottish heritage entities. I am not anti-scot btw -- if men want to wear plaid skirts and dance a knees-up with knives in their socks and their purses dangling, that's their right, I say. :(

Ian Flemings grandfather was Robert Fleming, founder of Robert Fleming bank.

Most of the investors in various Jardine funds were offshore shells located in the West Indies, Isle of Man and...well, Harvard. Jardine Matheson is managed by the Keswick family. A Keswick family member (I forget which one) is said to be formerly of MI6.

David

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  • 4 months later...

BK: And for the third time, Tim insists that JFK and Ian Fleming never met and never talked, though all he had to do was Google JFK and Ian Fleming or even Wiki JFK and he would have learned the details, exactly as previously described and still denied by him

TIM WRITES: Your source is wrong on Bond, Bill. Don't read Bond books by popular writers--read Kennedy bios by historians. More on that later.

MORE ON THAT NOW, TIM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Fleming

In March 1960, Fleming met John F. Kennedy through Marion Oates Leiter who was a mutual friend and invited to dinner. Leiter had introduced Kennedy to Fleming's books during his recovery from an operation in 1955. After dinner Fleming related his ideas on discrediting Fidel Castro; these were reported to Central Intelligence Agency chief Allen Welsh Dulles, who gave the ideas serious consideration.[3]

Chancellor, Henry James Bond the Man and His World (2005)

Marion Oates "Oatsie" Leiter Charles, who was with Fleming when she introduced him to Kennedy, invited JFK to dinner at her Georgetown home, which was recently sold:

Socialite sells in D.C.

Washington hostess Marion Oates “Oatsie” Charles has sold her Georgetown home of more than 50 years for $7 million.

Located on R Street, the 1850s Italianate brick house on 0.8-acre had been listed at $8.3 million. It was decorated with photos of the socialite with several U.S. presidents including John F. Kennedy, says Jamie Peva, of Washington Fine Properties, co-listing broker along with A. Michael Sullivan Jr., of the same firm. In an interview, the 88-year-old Charles, who has hosted Nancy Reagan among others, shrugged off her reputation as a party-giver: “My reputation as a hostess was due to the fact that I did it so seldom.”

Across the lawn from the three-story, five-bedroom house is a guest studio with a kitchen. Charles, whose grandfather was Alabama governor William C. Oates, is a trustee of the Doris Duke Charitable Foundation, a roughly $1.8 billion foundation. She now lives in Newport, R.I.

Kimberly Casey and Daryl Judy, both of Tutt, Taylor & Rankin Sotheby’s International Realty, represented the buyer, whose name couldn’t be learned.

"OATSIE" IS QUITE A CHARACTER, NOW LIVING FULL TIME AT NEWPORT AND A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF THE DORIS DUKE FOUNDATION, WHICH DISTRIBUTES THE FORTUNE OF THE LATE (AND POSSIBLY MURDERED) TOBACCO HIERESS TO VARIOUS CHARITIES, INCLUDING JAZZ AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION.

WHILE I HAVE YET TO FIND OUT ANYTHING ABOUT HER PREVIOUS HUSBAND, JOHN LEITER, EXCEPT THAT I THINK HE WAS A TEXAS OIL MAN, OATSIE IS A GRAND DAUGHTER OF CONFEDERATE GENERAL OATES, WHO LOST THE BATTLE OF LITTLE ROUND TOP AT GETTESBURG TO CHAMBERLAINE, AND LATER BECAME GOVERNOR OF ALABAMA.

OATSIE ALSO SERVED IN THE OSS DURING WORLD WAR II.

HERE'S AN ARTICLE ABOUT HER CURRENT NEWPORT LIFESTYLE AND PIX:

http://www.projo.com/specials/newportsummer/chapter2.htm

36.jpgMarion Oates Charles, at a cocktail party at the home of Ruth Buchanan Wheeler, is an Alabaman by birth and was a long-time confidante of the late Doris Duke.

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Bill, my book (and I will check who wrote it) states that Fleming dined with Dulles and (cannot remember) and it was at that dinner that Fleming made his suggestions directly to Dulles re how to deal with Castro. (My book says his real suggestion was to have some patsy linked to Castro assassinate the next President (whomever it might be, blame it on Castro and force an invasion, a plan the CIA employed after the BOP failed--hey I'm kidding!!)

The next morning, then Sen. JFK who was as we all know a James Bond fan found out that Fleming was in town and desperately wanted to meet him but Fleming had already left town.

The man who wrote that book is a much more respected journalist or historian than Henry Chancellor. There is no doubt that Chancellor's version of the story is more interesting, of course.

By the way, I am surpised you failed to mention the name of James Bond's friend in the CIA, Felix Leiter. Since William King Harvey was America's James Bond, can there be any doubt that Fleming modeled Leiter after Harvey? They just got the wrong people to play Leiter in the Bond flicks!

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Bill, my book (and I will check who wrote it) states that Fleming dined with Dulles and (cannot remember) and it was at that dinner that Fleming made his suggestions directly to Dulles re how to deal with Castro. (My book says his real suggestion was to have some patsy linked to Castro assassinate the next President (whomever it might be, blame it on Castro and force an invasion, a plan the CIA employed after the BOP failed--hey I'm kidding!!)

The next morning, then Sen. JFK who was as we all know a James Bond fan found out that Fleming was in town and desperately wanted to meet him but Fleming had already left town.

TIM, I THINK YOU GOT THIS STORY BACKWARDS. JFK MET FLEMING ON A DC STREET, THEIR MUTUAL FRIEND "OATSIE" LEITER/CHARLES - HOSTS THEM BOTH OVER DINNER, AND DULLES FOUND OUT ABOUT IT THE NEXT DAY.

The man who wrote that book is a much more respected journalist or historian than Henry Chancellor. There is no doubt that Chancellor's version of the story is more interesting, of course.

By the way, I am surpised you failed to mention the name of James Bond's friend in the CIA, Felix Leiter.

007'S FICTIONAL CIA SIDEKICK FELIX LEITER GETS HIS NAME FROM OATSIE'S HUSBAND JOHN LEITER AND THE MIDDLE NAME OF IVOR FELIX BRYCE, FLEMING'S OSS FRIEND WHO INTRODUCED HIM TO JAMAICA, AND CO-OWNER OF NANA. ELEMENTS OF HIS CHARACTER - SUCH AS A SPY-JAZZ MUSIC CRITIC, IS TAKEN FROM HENRY PLEASANTS, A PHILADELPHIA JOURNALIST AND MUSIC CRITIC, 0SS INTEROGATOR AND DEBRIEFER OF REINHARD GEHLEN.

Since William King Harvey was America's James Bond, can there be any doubt that Fleming modeled Leiter after Harvey? They just got the wrong people to play Leiter in the Bond flicks!

WHILE WKH WAS INTRODUCED TO JFK AS 'AMERICA'S JAMES BOND,' I DON'T THINK THE PEAR SHAPPED OAF WAS QUITE AS DEBONAIR AS OTHERS, LIKE THE REAL JAMES BOND, WHO WAS AN AMERICAN EDUCATED IN ENGLAND, JAMES BOND THE ORNITHOLOGIST.

IF TIM CHECKS HIS SOURCE I'M QUITE CONFIDENT IT IS DULLES WHO HEARS ABOUT THE DINNER BETWEEN FLEMING AND JFK AT OATSIE'S, RATHER THAN THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

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amusing cincidence :

JAMES BOND THE ORNITHOLOGIST. : JAMES ANGLETON THE ORCHIDOLOGIST

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amusing cincidence :

JAMES BOND THE ORNITHOLOGIST. : JAMES ANGLETON THE ORCHIDOLOGIST

I always thought there was more to the bird angle - than just naming operations - Nightingale, Mockingbird, Bluebird, Condor, etc., but I didn't consider Angleton's orchid fetish as possibly significant until I recently read of another Orchidologist - Doris Duke, the poor little rich girl, OSS, patron of the arts, jazz, historic preservation and orchids.

Mrs. "Oatsie" Oates Leiter Charles, who introduced JFK to Ian Fleming, is on the board of DD's Foundation, distributing millions to charities. I wonder if the orchids got any?

I also had a flashback on the scene in Manchorian Candidate where the captive soldiers are drugged and hyptnotized into believing they are before a meeting of the women's garden society.

Also consider that LHO read the James Bond novels, checking them out of the library and buying paperbacks that were found among his effects.

Oh, and another thing - the late Peter Tomkins, former OSS in Italy, where I think Angleton also served, wrote The Secret Life of Plants.

BK

Edited by William Kelly
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amusing cincidence :

JAMES BOND THE ORNITHOLOGIST. : JAMES ANGLETON THE ORCHIDOLOGIST

I always thought there was more to the bird angle - than just naming operations - Nightingale, Mockingbird, Bluebird, Condor, etc., but I didn't consider Angleton's orchid fetish as possibly significant until I recently read of another Orchidologist - Doris Duke, the poor little rich girl, OSS, patron of the arts, jazz, historic preservation and orchids.

Mrs. "Oatsie" Oates Leiter Charles, who introduced JFK to Ian Fleming, is on the board of DD's Foundation, distributing millions to charities. I wonder if the orchids got any?

I also had a flashback on the scene in Manchorian Candidate where the captive soldiers are drugged and hyptnotized into believing they are before a meeting of the women's garden society.

Also consider that LHO read the James Bond novels, checking them out of the library and buying paperbacks that were found among his effects.

Oh, and another thing - the late Peter Tomkins, former OSS in Italy, where I think Angleton also served, wrote The Secret Life of Plants.

BK

The Secret Life of Plants was written by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird.

"This fascinating book roams. . . over that marvelous no man's land of mystical glimmerings into the nature of science and life itself"

--Henry Mitchell, Washington Post Book World

wiki: "The book also contains a summary of Goethe's theory of plant metamorphosis."

(ed - Goethe was also an inspiration to Rudolph Steiner who came out of the theosophists, including such as Madam Blavatsky)

"With that being said, this book is about much more than just plants, and delves quite deeply into such topics as the aura, psychophysics, orgone*, radionics, kirlian photography, magnetism / magnetotropism, bioelectrics, dowsing, and the history of science."

*orgone : here one may consider Willhelm Reich, (a thread leading from the group including Freud and Jung), who died in jail under FDA actions, had his lab and notes destroyed/disappeared, and his orgone accumulator. Willhelm Reich promoted a particular theory/mode of societal modification by free sex attitudes and cleansing of self through sitting in his orgone accumulator which supposedly iisulated the sitter from any outside influence of any kind while amplifying the natural 'orgone' energy he theorised and sought to prove exists.

All up, a set of thinkings that delves into the psyche, which was really JJA's forte'. Partly a population benumbed/deluded/mystified by mumbo jumbo and a coding derived from such fields one could imagine being useful in spy craft and population control. Useful in considering MKULTRA for example.

It again reminds one of Angletons 'mystic' revelations re the orchids in his greenhouse and the JFK assassination explained as a metaphor of a class of orchids that has developed a complex type of camouflage.

JJA was also quite a poet (literature) during his Yale years. So, there are overlaps all over. Whether they mean anything of significance is another matter. Still...interesting.

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amusing cincidence :

JAMES BOND THE ORNITHOLOGIST. : JAMES ANGLETON THE ORCHIDOLOGIST

I always thought there was more to the bird angle - than just naming operations - Nightingale, Mockingbird, Bluebird, Condor, etc., but I didn't consider Angleton's orchid fetish as possibly significant until I recently read of another Orchidologist - Doris Duke, the poor little rich girl, OSS, patron of the arts, jazz, historic preservation and orchids.

Mrs. "Oatsie" Oates Leiter Charles, who introduced JFK to Ian Fleming, is on the board of DD's Foundation, distributing millions to charities. I wonder if the orchids got any?

I also had a flashback on the scene in Manchorian Candidate where the captive soldiers are drugged and hyptnotized into believing they are before a meeting of the women's garden society.

Also consider that LHO read the James Bond novels, checking them out of the library and buying paperbacks that were found among his effects.

Oh, and another thing - the late Peter Tomkins, former OSS in Italy, where I think Angleton also served, wrote The Secret Life of Plants.

BK

Let us not forget Fleming's last words:

"It's all been a tremendous lark." (emphasis added)

Charles

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  • 5 months later...
Ian Fleming is having a 100th Anniversary this week.

There should be a lot of mainstream media hype.

BK

I wanted to make some type of contribution, has anyone ever read the 1967 piece on the Bahama's and Organized Crime that was in Life Magazine? Seems like a correlating area, to some degree.....As for below,

disregard the fact that this is dated from 2002, I am sure it will be new information to some of us here.

The Real James Bond

Courtesy BBC.co.uk

May 9, 2002

Sensitive government files which shed light on the life of the master spy Sidney Reilly are finally opened to the public. Reilly is credited with providing Ian Fleming with the inspiration for his character James Bond. His exploits for British intelligence in Russia made him a household name in Britain in the twenties. But many suspect he may have been a double, triple or even quadruple agent.

Reilly disappeared on a mission in Russia in 1925, and today's papers may shed light on whether he was betrayed by a mole inside British intelligence. He was born Shlomo Rosenblum, in Ukraine, in 1873. He was recruited by the British intelligence and won the Military Cross for work in Russia. He was also kept under close observation by the MI5 between his volunteering and actually being enlisted into the service. His love-life was tangled: it's known that he had at least four wives (three of the marriages were bigamous) and he claimed to have at least ninety lovers. Reilly disappeared on an undercover mission in Russia in 1925. Historian Andrew Cook believes that the manner of his death proves he was never a double agent. Reilly had been working inside Russia with a shadowy organisation called The Trust, which Western Intelligence believed was trying to overthrow the Bolsheviks. In fact, The Trust was the creation of Felix Dzerzhinsky, the founder of the Russian KGB: Reilly had been set up. Andrew Cook told Breakfast: "The manner of his death indicates he was not a double agent. OGPU (the fore-runner of the KGB) took him for a drive into the country. The car "broke down" and they took him for a short walk while it was being repaired. Then they shot him in the back." Compared with how executions were normally carried out, it was a kindness to do it this way.

Another Ukranian.......

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Ian Fleming is having a 100th Anniversary this week.

There should be a lot of mainstream media hype.

BK

I wanted to make some type of contribution, has anyone ever read the 1967 piece on the Bahama's and Organized Crime that was in Life Magazine? Seems like a correlating area, to some degree.....As for below,

disregard the fact that this is dated from 2002, I am sure it will be new information to some of us here.

The Real James Bond

Courtesy BBC.co.uk

May 9, 2002

Sensitive government files which shed light on the life of the master spy Sidney Reilly are finally opened to the public. Reilly is credited with providing Ian Fleming with the inspiration for his character James Bond. His exploits for British intelligence in Russia made him a household name in Britain in the twenties. But many suspect he may have been a double, triple or even quadruple agent.

Reilly disappeared on a mission in Russia in 1925, and today's papers may shed light on whether he was betrayed by a mole inside British intelligence. He was born Shlomo Rosenblum, in Ukraine, in 1873. He was recruited by the British intelligence and won the Military Cross for work in Russia. He was also kept under close observation by the MI5 between his volunteering and actually being enlisted into the service. His love-life was tangled: it's known that he had at least four wives (three of the marriages were bigamous) and he claimed to have at least ninety lovers. Reilly disappeared on an undercover mission in Russia in 1925. Historian Andrew Cook believes that the manner of his death proves he was never a double agent. Reilly had been working inside Russia with a shadowy organisation called The Trust, which Western Intelligence believed was trying to overthrow the Bolsheviks. In fact, The Trust was the creation of Felix Dzerzhinsky, the founder of the Russian KGB: Reilly had been set up. Andrew Cook told Breakfast: "The manner of his death indicates he was not a double agent. OGPU (the fore-runner of the KGB) took him for a drive into the country. The car "broke down" and they took him for a short walk while it was being repaired. Then they shot him in the back." Compared with how executions were normally carried out, it was a kindness to do it this way.

Another Ukranian.......

**********************************************************************

Thanks for the historical by-line, Robert. It's really interesting to confirm how the "upper" ten percent live.

"The Real James Bond"

"Historian Andrew Cook believes that the manner of his death proves he was never a double agent. Reilly had been working inside Russia with a shadowy organization called The Trust, which Western Intelligence believed was trying to overthrow the Bolsheviks."

Another aristocratic, oligarchic, fascist organization, perhaps? Because that's what all these MI5, MI6, and CIA "spy vs spy" guys remind me of. All operative shills for the rich and famous, royal and corporative, "upper" classes. Does payment for all of this come out of our taxes, as well as those of the British Commonwealth's?

Oh, to live such a "charmed" life, I'm sure.

Ter

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Actually, there was only one real James Bond. James Bond, the American ornithologist form whom Ian Fleming appropriated the name for his fictional secret agent 007.

BK

http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/19063864.html

Which is the real James Bond?

Hint: He's not the one wielding a gun.

His work took him to exotic locations, and he was deadly accurate with a firearm. His name was Bond. (Yes, James Bond.)

Not the British super-spy created by author Ian Fleming, but the longtime ornithologist at Philadelphia's Academy of Natural Sciences.

Fleming's 100th birthday is this month, and folks at the academy are recalling how their James Bond lent his name to the fictional version.

When writing his first novel about Agent 007 half a century ago, Fleming had not met the real Bond. But he owned a copy of Bond's Birds of the West Indies - and thought the author's "masculine" name was perfect for his character.

The ornithologist did not learn of the connection for several years, and then he "was really quite mortified by all the attention," says academy senior fellow Robert Peck.

Bond's wife, on the other hand, embraced the notoriety. (In 1966, Mary Wickham Bond even wrote a book about it: How 007 Got His Name.)

The real Bond, who died in 1989, was a pioneer in determining the origin of Caribbean birds, using a shotgun to collect specimens. Based on his studies of anatomy and behavior, Bond deduced that species on the islands were descended from birds of North America - rather than South America, as many had believed.

Today, DNA analysis has pinpointed the origins of some Caribbean species more specifically to Central America. But his work remains fundamentally sound, says Frank Gill, former curator of ornithology at the academy.

Bond never took out any enemy spies, though.

"He much preferred to lead a quiet, almost invisible life," Peck says, "focusing on birds."

- Tom Avril

Edited by William Kelly
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Win Scott, Hemingway, Fleming & Bond

Jeff Morley, in Our Man in Mexico, (p19), writes:

"With the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, America went to war. The FBI, with its network of offices throughout the Caribbean and South America, had the job of keeping track of Germans in Latin America as well. In February 1943 he was loaned out on 'Special Confidential Assignment' to the U.S. embassy in Cuba, an unusually rapid promotion. Win loved wartime Havana at first. He served as assistant to the embassy's legal attaché, an FBI man named Raymond Leddy, and liked him immediately. Leddy was a trim, correct man, a native of New York City and a product of the finest Jesuit schools: Xavier High School, Holly Cross College, and Fordham Law School. Astute about FBI office politics, Leddy spoke fluent Spanish and moved with ease both in the world of the embassy and among the Cubans."

"He took Win to the jai alai arena and introduced him to the famous writer Ernest Hemingway whose leftist political sympathies made Leddy suspicious. The bearded novelist's alcohol-fueled reports of German submarines in Havana Bay had become the gag of the office. Win rented a room in Leddy's tidy seaside house in the Miramar section of Havana, and their friendship grew. 'He was well-educated, had good, even if accented, Spanish – and he had a car. He had proved to be one of my best friends, and we have kept in contact,' Win wrote, though there was much, much more to the story than that."

Indeed there was, as Ian Fleming, an officer in the Royal Navy, was soon to be posted as assistant to the Director of British Naval Intelligence, but was then responsible for the tracking of Nazi submarines in the Caribbean. And Hemingway was an agent of the United States Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) at the time, keeping track of Nazi subs while posing as a fisherman on his yacht the Pilar. Later Hemingway would go to Europe and cover the land war with OSS Col. David Bruce and write reports for Colliers and the North American Newspaper Alliance (NANA).

NANA was owned by Ernest Cuneo and Ivor Bryce, two other OSS officers who hired Fleming after the war to run their European correspondents.

Early in the war, while on a conference on Nazi U Boat warfare in the Caribbean, Bryce took Fleming to visit his Jamaican estate, and Fleming decided to return and live there.

While Win Scott may have crossed paths with Ian Fleming when they were both keeping track of Germans in the Caribbean, Scott may have also received reports from James Bond Authenticus, the American ornithologist whose name Fleming acknowledged appropriating for his fictional secret agent 007.

Bond's book Birds of the West Indies was a reference kept by Fleming's breakfast table at Goldeneye, his Jamaican home where he wrote all of the Bond novels.

James Bond's wife, Mary Wickham Bond, a journalist and publisher, wrote a non-fictional book, To James Bond With Love (Sutter House, 1980) in which she details some of her husband's bird hunting adventures in the West Indies.

On one trip to Jamaica, James and Mary Bond rented a car and took a drive along the scenic North Shore, and stopped in to visit Ian Fleming. Fleming had them for lunch, and they joked about how the fictional 007 likes his meals cooked, and what he real James Bond preferred.

In her book To James Bond With Love (p. 56), Mary Bond reflects on some other experiences of the real James Bond, reports about which may have crossed the desk of Win Scott and Raymond Leddy in Havana, keeping track of Germans in the Caribbean.

"If Ian Fleming had lived longer, it's a safe guess that he and Jim (Bond) would have met again," Mrs. Bond wrote. "Fiction writers are scavengers when seeking material for their fabrications, and Fleming might have easily extracted from Jim his enigmatic experience in World War II in Haiti. He arrived in Port-au-Prince in May 1941 for the sole purpose of studying birds on Morne La Selle, a plateau over 6,000 feet high. He put up at the little Hotel de Reix at Kenscoff, a small settlement at about 4,000 feet and tried to obtain two porters to carry his camping material. No one would so. A German, he was told by the habitants, had built an airstrip high on the ridge and would not allow anyone to go up there. Jim asked where the German lived, and the natives pointed to the summit of nearby Morne Tranchant which is covered by low scrubby woods. Jim was doubtful of this, for he was used to near enough gestures from the islanders when asked the location of some rare bird, but decided to go up and see for himself."

"He climbed to the top of the mountain and found on the edge of a small clearing a very neat cottage well hidden in the foliage. The German who came out was very pleasant, spoke excellent English, and although he did not say, 'Dr. Livingstone, I presume,' to Jim's astonishment he knew who he was and told him to go ahead wherever he pleased on the La Selle ridge. Jim was so absorbed in his own objectives he forgot all about the alleged airstrip and went on his way without even asking about it."

"When leaving Haiti for home, he was forced, owing to the war, to travel on a freighter from St. Marc to New York. Back in Philadelphia he told his friend Brandon Barringer about the encounter with the German, and Brandon took it up with the authorities in Washington. Jim was promptly visited at the Academy of Natural Sciences by Army, and then Navy, Intelligence officers. Fleming would have been intrigued with the final twist to the story. The Intelligence people asked a lot of foolish questions and seemed far more suspicious about Jim's reasons for climbing Morne La Selle, than about the German's activities."

"Another episode Fleming might have adapted for his as yet unborn 007 was during Machado's regime in Cuba....."

Since Win Scott and Raymond Leddy were the two men in Havana responsible for "keeping track of Germans in the Caribbean," it is entirely possible they would have gotten Bond's report, via Brandon Barringer, of a German who had an airstrip on the Morne La Selle plateau in Haiti.

Edited by William Kelly
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