Guest Duncan MacRae Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) Compare the figure in both photographs..I say Yes..Your opinions welcomed. Duncan Edited July 23, 2007 by Duncan MacRae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Compare the figure in both photographs..I say Yes..Your opinions welcomed.Duncan I have a question: Do you believe that Jack and Gary's Badge Man work shows someone behind the wall that appears to be wearing some sort of uniform? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Scull Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Compare the figure in both photographs..I say Yes..Your opinions welcomed.Duncan Great work, Duncan. Have to agree, yes. Just wondering about timing. If BDM is going up the sidewalk, what position does he take as to who arrived up to the pergola & parking lot area when? Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 My opinion: Blackdogman, seen only in Willis 5 and Betzner, did not exist. The "figure" was added by govt retouchers to hide a man in army uniform taking photos who could not be accounted for. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) Hi Duncan: I think it is more than likely, the third man who was standing behind, Emmett Hudson on the stairs. and then proceeds to run up the steps, down the pathway and into the parking lot. as shown in these Nix Gifs.....the one on the right was done for all by Frank Agbat.. Sorry I had forgotten to mention that info, the other I have no idea, but to whomever, thanks to both...... B.... Edited July 19, 2007 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Scull Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Hi Duncan:I think it is more than likely, the third man who was standing behind, Emmett Hudson on the stairs. and then proceeds to run up the steps, down the pathway and into the parking lot. as shown in these Nix Gifs..... B.... Beautiful work B. This puts the third man into the parking lot VERY quickly! Is this the man Bowers identified as wearing a white shirt? Was Hudson wearing a red shirt? A question has to be: So soon after Z-313, why is not a surprised spectator rooted to the spot in incredulity? Why is he instantly running away? Your thoughts, Duncan & Bernice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Compare the figure in both photographs..I say Yes..Your opinions welcomed.Duncan Crop, Willis6, taken from a 2400x2400dpi scan of the photos sold by Willis. I see the branch of a tree. - lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) My opinion: Blackdogman, seen only in Willis 5 and Betzner, did not exist.The "figure" was added by govt retouchers to hide a man in army uniform taking photos who could not be accounted for. Jack The person called "The Black Dog Man" (BDM) is also seen in the Betzner photo. Gordon Arnold said he was filming as the President was coming towards, thus he was already in position. There is only one person seen in the Betzner and Willis photos at the BDM location, thus it must be the same figure seen in Moorman's photo. From that distance (the Betzner and Willis locations to the walkway above the knoll) and in shadow - Arnold would look dark from that distance. The sunspot on Arnold and BDM's right shoulder and torso tend to support them being one in the same person IMO. Bill Edited July 20, 2007 by Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Compare the figure in both photographs..I say Yes..Your opinions welcomed.Duncan Crop, Willis6, taken from a 2400x2400dpi scan of the photos sold by Willis. I see the branch of a tree. - lee Lee, The tree branch is lighter than the background. If it is anyone that Duncan see's - it is probably one of these guys from Towner #3 .... Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) Hi Duncan:I think it is more than likely, the third man who was standing behind, Emmett Hudson on the stairs. and then proceeds to run up the steps, down the pathway and into the parking lot. as shown in these Nix Gifs..... B.... Beautiful work B. This puts the third man into the parking lot VERY quickly! Is this the man Bowers identified as wearing a white shirt? Was Hudson wearing a red shirt? A question has to be: So soon after Z-313, why is not a surprised spectator rooted to the spot in incredulity? Why is he instantly running away? Your thoughts, Duncan & Bernice? ****************** It looks more like a light coloured jacket....imo. No Hudson has the light coloured cap on..light pants and dark jacket.. As Hudson states they all ran up the steps quickly, he mentions the fact that the shots seemed to be coming over their heads, the third man runs up the steps, Hudson and the man in the red jacket got down..on the ground, as shown in the photos. B....... All Below FWIW....compare the Groden enhancement against the Nix Gif.....same shadow....imo Emmett Hudson..... Mr. HUDSON - Well there was a young fellow, oh, I would judge his age about in his late twenties. He said he had been looking for a place to park and he walked up there and he said he finally just taken a place over there in one of them parking lots, and he come on down there and said he worked over there on Industrial and me and him both just sat there first on those steps. When the motorcade turned off of Houston onto Elm, we got up and stood up, me and him both. He was on the left side and I was on the right and so the first shot rung out and, of course, I didn't realize it was a shot, what was taking place right at that present time, and when the second one rung out, the motorcade had done got further on down Elm, and you see, I was trying to get a good look at President Kennedy. I happened to be looking right at him when that bullet hit him - the second shot. Mr. LIEBELER - That was when the bullet hit him in the head; is that correct? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it looked like it ht him somewhere along about a little bit behind the ear and a little bit above the ear. Mr. LIEBELER - On the right-hand side or the left-hand side? Mr. HUDSON - Right hand. Mr. LIEBELER - Can you tell me approximately where the President's car was when you heard what you later figured was the first shot? Mr. HUDSON - Well, the best I could get right off - I remember it was right about this lightpost right here. Mr. LIEBELER - You are indicating the first lightpost on the right-hand side of Elm Street? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; coming off Houston, you see, there's a lightpost right there close to Houston Street, right there, just above this little crook right here. Mr. LIEBELER - That lightpost doesn't show in the picture you have here? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; it doesn't show in the picture - it was about, I believe, where the first shot was fired. Mr. LIEBELER - You think he was by the lightpost in this picture when the first shot was fired? Mr. HUDSON - Right along there is about where President Kennedy's car was when he was hit - at the time I was looking right at him when the shot struck him, when the bullet struck him. Mr. LIEBELER - How many shots did you here altogether? Mr. HUDSON - Three. Mr. LIEBELER - Three shots? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Are you sure about that? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - You say that it was the second shot that hit him in the head; is that right? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I do believe that - I know it was. Mr. LIEBELER - You saw him hit in the head, there wasn't any question in your mind about that, was there? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - And after you saw him hit in the head, did you here another shot? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see that shot hit anything - the third shot? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, he says, "lay down, Mister, somebody is shooting the President." He says, "Lay down, lay down." and he kept repeating, "Lay down." so he was already laying down one way on the sidewalk, so I just laid down over on the ground and resting my arm on the ground and when that third shot rung out and when I was close to the ground - you could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind. Mr. LIEBELER - How could you tell that? Mr. HUDSON - Well, just the sound of it. Mr. LIEBELER - You heard it come from sort of behind the motorcade and then above? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I don't know if you have ever laid down close to the ground, you know, when you heard the reports coming, but it's a whole lot plainer than it is when you are standing up in the air. Mr. LIEBELER - You were standing down here where we put the "X"? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - You say when the President was hit in the head he was up here by the first lamppost on the right-hand side of the post that shows in the picture? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; right along in here. Mr. LIEBELER - That's when he got hit in the head? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I think so. Mr. LIEBELER - Are you sure about that? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir; I am. Mr. LIEBELER - So you had to look up Elm Street? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I was looking up this way, you see. You see [indicating on photograph], that's the motorcade car right there isn't it? Mr. LIEBELER - Yes; the picture that we are looking at here is a picture of a renactment of the scene. Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there. Mr. LIEBELER - You think the last shot was fired and the car was about where it actually is in that picture when the third shot was fired? Mr. HUDSON - Pretty close to it; yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - But you think the President had already been hit in the head by the time the third shot was fired? Mr. HUDSON - He had been hit twice, so Parkland Hospital said. He was hit in the neck one time and in the head one time. Mr. LIEBELER - When the first shot was fired, were you looking at the presidential car then; could you see it then? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it was coming around - it had just got around the corner,you see, from off of Houston Street, making that corner there, come off of Houston onto Elm. Mr. LIEBELER - Did it look to you like the President was hit by the first shot? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I don't think so - I sure don't. Mr. LIEBELER - You don't think he got hit by the first shot? Mr. HUDSON - No. Mr. LIEBELER - You say it was the second shot that hit him in the head? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - What happened after the President got hit in the head, did you see what he did, what happened in the car? Mr. HUDSON - He slumped over and Mrs. Kennedy, she climbs over in the seat with him and pulls him over. Mr. LIEBELER - Pulled him down in the seat? Mr. HUDSON - Pulled him over in her lap like. Mr. LIEBELER - If you don't think the Presidentgot hit by the first shot and yoy say he got hit in the head with the second shot - Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - And if we assume that he was shot twice, you would have to say that he was hit by the third shot; isn't that right? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - He was hit again after he got hit in the head? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think that could have been possible when Mrs. Kennedy pulled him over, do you think he could have got hit in the neck after he had been hit in the head? Mr. HUDSON - Yes sir; I do Mr. LIEBELER - He was still sitting far enough up in the car he could have been hit? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you watch the President after he got hit in the head like that? Mr. HUDSON - Well as soon as everybody realized what had happened, you know, everybody went to going up the hill so we did too. Mr. LIEBELER - So you only saw the President hit once; is that right, sir? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir; I just saw him hit once. Mr. LIEBELER - That was in the head? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - And you aren't able to say from your own observation when he was hit in the neck? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - If he was hit in the neck. Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Could the car have actually been down here where it is in the photograph No. 18, could it have been that far down Elm Street - this is Elm Street that runs down here - right here - could the car have been that far down Elm Street when the President got hit in the head? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; no, sir, it wasn't that far down. Mr. LIEBELER - Do you see this little pedestal back up here? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Just above the "X" where you were standing? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see anybody standing up there that you can remember, durring the time the president went by? Mr. HUDSON - Oh, there was a bunch of people in there, you know, a whole bunch of them - a lot of people in there - a lot of people in here. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you se anybody standing up there taking motion pictures with a movie camera? Mr. HUDSON - Oh, yes; I seen people up there trying to get - taking pictures. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see a man with a movie picture camera? Mr. HUDSON - Not in particular, I didn't. It was such an exciting time - now - I did notice a man back over here on this triangle. Mr. LIEBELER - Standing across Elm Street? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - With a motion picture camera? Mr. HUDSON - Well he had a camera - I don't know whether it was a motion picture camera or not, but he had a camera. Mr. LIEBELER - I show you another picture which we will mark as Hudson Exhibit No. 1. I have put my initials on the back of the picture. Would you do that too so we can identify the picture before we start to talk about it, so we don't get confused? Mr. HUDSON - You mean - put my name? Mr. LIEBELER - Just your initials. Mr. HUDSON - [Marked picture as requested.] Is that all right? Mr. LIEBELER - Now, let's take a look at that picture, Mr. Hudson, and let me ask you if you can see in that picture, where you were standing? Mr. HUDSON -(no response.) Mr. LIEBELER - Now, this picture, Hudson Exhibit No. 1, has a sign in it that says "Stemmons Freeway, keep right." doesn't it? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Can you find that sign on the photograph No. 18 of the Commission Exhibit No. 875? The one that we were talking about before. Mr. HUDSON - That's right here, I believe - right here. Mr. LIEBELER - Now, that sign says, "R. L. Thornton Freeway, keep right." Where is the Stemmons Freeway sign in this picture? Can you see it in that picture at all - I can't. Mr. HUDSON - I can't either - that isn't it - it's farther up this way. Mr. LIEBELER - That's further back up and it's out of the picture? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - There are two signs in picture No. 18, one says, "R.L. Thornton Freeway, keep right." and the other one says, "Fort worth Turnpike, keep right." Mr. HUDSON - There were two of them that wasn't too far apart right throught here - them signs was - one was right along in here and the other one was either further up, I guess. It's not in that picture - I don't believe. Now, they have moved some of those signs. They have moved the R.L. Thornton Freeway sign and put up a Stemmons sign. Mr. LIEBELER - They have? They have moved it? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - That might explain it, because this picture here, No. 18, was taken after the assassination and this one was taken at the time - No. 1. Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it had to be right along in there - those steps have got to come down right along in here, if I see the picture right. Npw, this is Elm right here coming around like this - it comes over here and the steps begin right along up in there somewhere and come on down right here to the sidewalk, right along in there somewhere to where those steps is. Mr. LIEBELER - So, that you think you were standing somewhere in the back left-hand part Mr. HUDSON - Yes; this was taken at the present time - it happened - this picture was? Mr. LIEBELER - Yes; this is an actual picture of the motorcade itself; yes sir. Let me suggest that the pictures are taken from different angles, referring to photograph No. 18 of Commission Exhibit No. 875 - there is a little concrete stand here in the very right-hand side of the picture. Mr. HUDSON - That's just right along in here. Mr. LIEBELER - That's right, and that appers in Hudson Exhibit No. 1 immediately to the left of the sign that says, "Stemmons Freeway, keep right." does it not? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; those steps are right along there between that concrete - the end of that concrete wall right there and that elm tree come between them - no, not an elm but that's a live oak tree - that's a live oak tree right there. Mr. LIEBELER - And that's right off of the end of this concrete embankment there, there's a live oak tree there. Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Can you see yourself in that picture anywhere, can you mak yourself out? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I can't , unless it is one of these two men right here - I can't tell - if I had that picture that was taken in the Times Herald paper - I can show you myself in it. Mr. LIEBELER - Which one is that? Mr. HUDSON - Well, it was in the Times Herald paper the next morning after, I believe, after the assassination, maybe the evening after the assassination. Mr. LIEBELER - Look at this picture. Mr. HUDSON - [Examining picture referred to.] I don't know - if that's one of them men myself or not up there. Mr. LIEBELER - I have shown you Commission Exhibit No. 203 and you are not able to point to yourself in that picture at any place. Actually, Commission Exhibit No, 203 shows a different area. Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir Mr. LIEBELER - That's a picture from the front of the Texas School Book Depository Building and you wouldn't be in that picture, according to where you placed yourself by looking at Hudson Exhibit No. 1. Mr. HUDSON - No; I wouldn't be in that at all - I know. If they had that picture that was taken - a fellow was shooting from across Elm up toward those steps here, that showed my picture in it, I believe. Now, I could be one of those men standing right there - I'm not for sure - I wouldn't say for sure that I was one of them or not, but I can't see it well enough to tell. Mr. LIEBELER - In this picture here you see the car is going down Elm Street, isn't that right, referring to Hudson Exhibit No. 1? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - And it is just about to pass a sign that says, "Stemmons Freeway, keep right." Do you think that the President could have been hit when he was that far back up Elm Street? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - You do think that? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - And you heard another shot after that time? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think, looking at Hudson Exhibit No. 1, do you think that is about the place where the president got hit in the head, or was it further back up on Elm or was it further down - if so - about where was it? Mr. HUDSON - That's somewher pretty close. Mr. LIEBELER - That's pretty close right there? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it's somewhere pretty close. Mr. LIEBELER - After you heard these three shots and saw the president get hit in the head, you turned around and you ran up on the little knoll there and you got away. Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - While you were standing there, did you ever look toward the railroad tracks there where they went across the triple underpass? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; while I was laying there I didn't - I was looking down towards Elm Street. Mr. LIEBELER - So, you never looked up towards the railroad tracks that went across the underpass? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - But you are quite sure in your own mind that the shots came from the rear of the President's car and above it; is that correct? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any idea that they might have come from the Texas School Book Depository Building? Mr. HUDSON - Well, it sounded like it was high, you know, from above and kind of behind like - in other words, to the left. Mr. LIEBELER - And that would have fit in with the Texas School Book Depository, wouldn't it? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you look up there and see if you could see anybody? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I didn't. I never thought about looking up that way, to tell you the truth about it. Mr. LIEBELER - You were thinking about getting out of the way after things started? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it was just such an exciting time, you know, a fellow thinks about a million things in one second there at that time. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see anybody standing around there any place with a rifle - on the grassy spot up there near where you were standing or on the overpass or anyplace else? Mr. HUDSON - I never seen anyone with a gun up there except the patrols. Mr. LIEBELER - The policemen? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Now, did you see anything else down there when this all happened that you think we ought to know about that I haven't asked you about? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I don't know of anything. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see Govenor Connally - did you think Governor Connally had been hit? Mr. HUDSON - Well, sir; I never noticed Governor Connally in the car. The first shot must have struck him and he had done fell over in the car when that happened. Mr. LIEBELER - So that you didn't even see Governor Connally in the car at all? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't see him get hit by any of the shots? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - You are assuming that maybe he got hit by the first shot and fell down in the car. Mr. HUDSON - That's right. Mr. LIEBELER - And you saw the President get hit by what you heard as the second shot? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - How far apart were the shots spaced; do you have any recollection about that, how long did it take for all the shots to be fired and how far apart was one shot from the other? Mr. HUDSON - Well they was pretty fast and not fast either. It seemed like he had plenty of time to operate his gun plenty well - when the shots were all fired. Mr. LIEBELER - How much time do you think passed from the time the first shot was fired untill the second shot was fired, can you make any estimate about that? Mr. HUDSON - Oh, probably 2 minutes. Mr. LIEBELER - As much as 2 minutes? Mr. HUDSON - It might not have been that long. Mr. LIEBELER - But you thought he had plenty of time to get all of the shots off anyway? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever do any shooting? Mr. HUDSON - Well, not no big rifle - I haven't ever done no shooting with no big rifle. I have shot shotguns - .22's and things like that. Mr. LIEBELER - Did the shots seem evenly spaced or were some of them closer together? Mr. HUDSON - They seemed pretty well evenly spaced. Mr. LIEBELER - Evenly spaced; is that it? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Did anybody talk toy uou at all about security arrangements prior to the time the motorcade came by, or was that all handled by the police? Mr. HUDSON - That was all handled by the police. Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't have anything to do with anything like that? Mr. HUDSON - That's right - the fact of the business is, I didn't know they had been routed that way. Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't even know it was going to go buy until they came? Mr. HUDSON - That's right. Mr. LIEBELER - Have you been interviewed by the FBI? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember who talked to you? Mr. HUDSON - Not by name, I don't; no, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - And did you tell them approximately the same thing you have told me? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; approximately the same thing. Mr. LIEBELER - Did the Secret Service talk to you, or the Dallas Police Department or the FBI? Mr. HUDSON - The FBI and I made a deposition over at the courthouse - the same day that the assassination was. Mr. LIEBELER - That was the Dallas Police Department or the sheriff's office? Mr. HUDSON - The sheriff's office Mr. LIEBELER - Okay Mr. Hudson, I want to thank you very much for coming in. I don't have any more questions. Mr. HUDSON - Well, if it has been any help, I am glad it did. Mr. LIEBELER - Pardon? Mr. HUDSON - If it has been any help, I am glad to have come down. Mr. LIEBELER - I think you have been and we are glad to have you cooperate with us in the way you have. I want to thank you very much on behalf of the Commission. Mr. HUDSON - All right, good day. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/hudson.htm B........ Edited July 20, 2007 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) Miles: ""This puts the third man into the parking lot VERY quickly! Is this the man Bowers identified as wearing a white shirt?"" IMO no, as Bowers description was, "middle aged-fairly heavy set and wearing a white shirt and dark pants" Could he have been the heavier set man in the suit, with his coat off.....?? The second man : Bowers " a white male in his mid 20's with a plaid shirt..". Julia Ann Mercer : " White male, late 20's or early 30's wearing a grey jacket, brown pants and a plaid shirt"... ***************** The third man, who appears to be thin, and youngish, the way he takes off up the stairs, is wearing a darkish, blue grey jacket ?, and dark pants..... His description also does not jive with Jesse C. Price's, who was on the roof of the Union Terminal Annex building, corner of Houston & Commerce..... That man he descriped as " young white male, wearing a white dress shirt with no tie and khaki coloured pants." .who ran from behind the fence , where he thought shots had come from, .......the young man ran from the picket fence area into the sea of cars, with something in his hands.. So imo no...... B...... J.C.Price... VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest Form No. 86 SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Mr. J. C. Price, Address: 2602 Astor, Dallas, Age 62, Phone No. WH 1-1940. Bus. Terminal Annex, Gen. Service RI 8-5611, Ext 3105. Deposes and says: This day at about 12:35 PM I was on the roof of the Terminal Annex Bldg on the NE corner when the presidential motorcade came down Main to Houston, North on Houston and then West on Elm. The cars had proceeded west on Elm and was [sic] just a short distance from the Tripple [sic] underpass, when I saw Gov. Connelly [sic] slump over. I did not see the president as his car had gotten out of my view under the underpass. There was a volley of shots, and then much later, maybe as much as five minutes [sic!] later, another one. I saw one man run towards the passenger cars on the railroad siding after the volley of shots. This man had a white dress shirt, no tie and kahki [sic] colored trousers. His hair appeared to be long and dark and his agility running could be about 35 yrs [sic] of age. He had something in his hand. I couldn't be sure but it may have been a head piece. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX /s/ J. C. Price Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D. 1963 /s/ [unintelligible] Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/price.htm Edited July 20, 2007 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Hi Duncan:I think it is more than likely, the third man who was standing behind, Emmett Hudson on the stairs. and then proceeds to run up the steps, down the pathway and into the parking lot. as shown in these Nix Gifs..... B.... Beautiful work B. This puts the third man into the parking lot VERY quickly! Is this the man Bowers identified as wearing a white shirt? Was Hudson wearing a red shirt? A question has to be: So soon after Z-313, why is not a surprised spectator rooted to the spot in incredulity? Why is he instantly running away? Your thoughts, Duncan & Bernice? ****************** It looks more like a light coloured jacket....imo. No Hudson has the light coloured cap on..light pants and dark jacket.. As Hudson states they all ran up the steps quickly, he mentions the fact that the shots seemed to be coming over their heads, the third man runs up the steps, Hudson and the man in the red jacket got down..on the ground, as shown in the photos. B....... All Below FWIW....compare the Groden enhancement against the Nix Gif.....same shadow....imo Emmett Hudson..... Mr. HUDSON - Well there was a young fellow, oh, I would judge his age about in his late twenties. He said he had been looking for a place to park and he walked up there and he said he finally just taken a place over there in one of them parking lots, and he come on down there and said he worked over there on Industrial and me and him both just sat there first on those steps. When the motorcade turned off of Houston onto Elm, we got up and stood up, me and him both. He was on the left side and I was on the right and so the first shot rung out and, of course, I didn't realize it was a shot, what was taking place right at that present time, and when the second one rung out, the motorcade had done got further on down Elm, and you see, I was trying to get a good look at President Kennedy. I happened to be looking right at him when that bullet hit him - the second shot. Mr. LIEBELER - That was when the bullet hit him in the head; is that correct? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it looked like it ht him somewhere along about a little bit behind the ear and a little bit above the ear. Mr. LIEBELER - On the right-hand side or the left-hand side? Mr. HUDSON - Right hand. Mr. LIEBELER - Can you tell me approximately where the President's car was when you heard what you later figured was the first shot? Mr. HUDSON - Well, the best I could get right off - I remember it was right about this lightpost right here. Mr. LIEBELER - You are indicating the first lightpost on the right-hand side of Elm Street? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; coming off Houston, you see, there's a lightpost right there close to Houston Street, right there, just above this little crook right here. Mr. LIEBELER - That lightpost doesn't show in the picture you have here? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; it doesn't show in the picture - it was about, I believe, where the first shot was fired. Mr. LIEBELER - You think he was by the lightpost in this picture when the first shot was fired? Mr. HUDSON - Right along there is about where President Kennedy's car was when he was hit - at the time I was looking right at him when the shot struck him, when the bullet struck him. Mr. LIEBELER - How many shots did you here altogether? Mr. HUDSON - Three. Mr. LIEBELER - Three shots? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Are you sure about that? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - You say that it was the second shot that hit him in the head; is that right? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I do believe that - I know it was. Mr. LIEBELER - You saw him hit in the head, there wasn't any question in your mind about that, was there? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - And after you saw him hit in the head, did you here another shot? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see that shot hit anything - the third shot? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, he says, "lay down, Mister, somebody is shooting the President." He says, "Lay down, lay down." and he kept repeating, "Lay down." so he was already laying down one way on the sidewalk, so I just laid down over on the ground and resting my arm on the ground and when that third shot rung out and when I was close to the ground - you could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind. Mr. LIEBELER - How could you tell that? Mr. HUDSON - Well, just the sound of it. Mr. LIEBELER - You heard it come from sort of behind the motorcade and then above? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I don't know if you have ever laid down close to the ground, you know, when you heard the reports coming, but it's a whole lot plainer than it is when you are standing up in the air. Mr. LIEBELER - You were standing down here where we put the "X"? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - You say when the President was hit in the head he was up here by the first lamppost on the right-hand side of the post that shows in the picture? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; right along in here. Mr. LIEBELER - That's when he got hit in the head? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I think so. Mr. LIEBELER - Are you sure about that? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir; I am. Mr. LIEBELER - So you had to look up Elm Street? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I was looking up this way, you see. You see [indicating on photograph], that's the motorcade car right there isn't it? Mr. LIEBELER - Yes; the picture that we are looking at here is a picture of a renactment of the scene. Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there. Mr. LIEBELER - You think the last shot was fired and the car was about where it actually is in that picture when the third shot was fired? Mr. HUDSON - Pretty close to it; yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - But you think the President had already been hit in the head by the time the third shot was fired? Mr. HUDSON - He had been hit twice, so Parkland Hospital said. He was hit in the neck one time and in the head one time. Mr. LIEBELER - When the first shot was fired, were you looking at the presidential car then; could you see it then? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it was coming around - it had just got around the corner,you see, from off of Houston Street, making that corner there, come off of Houston onto Elm. Mr. LIEBELER - Did it look to you like the President was hit by the first shot? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I don't think so - I sure don't. Mr. LIEBELER - You don't think he got hit by the first shot? Mr. HUDSON - No. Mr. LIEBELER - You say it was the second shot that hit him in the head? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - What happened after the President got hit in the head, did you see what he did, what happened in the car? Mr. HUDSON - He slumped over and Mrs. Kennedy, she climbs over in the seat with him and pulls him over. Mr. LIEBELER - Pulled him down in the seat? Mr. HUDSON - Pulled him over in her lap like. Mr. LIEBELER - If you don't think the Presidentgot hit by the first shot and yoy say he got hit in the head with the second shot - Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - And if we assume that he was shot twice, you would have to say that he was hit by the third shot; isn't that right? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - He was hit again after he got hit in the head? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think that could have been possible when Mrs. Kennedy pulled him over, do you think he could have got hit in the neck after he had been hit in the head? Mr. HUDSON - Yes sir; I do Mr. LIEBELER - He was still sitting far enough up in the car he could have been hit? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you watch the President after he got hit in the head like that? Mr. HUDSON - Well as soon as everybody realized what had happened, you know, everybody went to going up the hill so we did too. Mr. LIEBELER - So you only saw the President hit once; is that right, sir? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir; I just saw him hit once. Mr. LIEBELER - That was in the head? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - And you aren't able to say from your own observation when he was hit in the neck? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - If he was hit in the neck. Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Could the car have actually been down here where it is in the photograph No. 18, could it have been that far down Elm Street - this is Elm Street that runs down here - right here - could the car have been that far down Elm Street when the President got hit in the head? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; no, sir, it wasn't that far down. Mr. LIEBELER - Do you see this little pedestal back up here? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Just above the "X" where you were standing? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see anybody standing up there that you can remember, durring the time the president went by? Mr. HUDSON - Oh, there was a bunch of people in there, you know, a whole bunch of them - a lot of people in there - a lot of people in here. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you se anybody standing up there taking motion pictures with a movie camera? Mr. HUDSON - Oh, yes; I seen people up there trying to get - taking pictures. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see a man with a movie picture camera? Mr. HUDSON - Not in particular, I didn't. It was such an exciting time - now - I did notice a man back over here on this triangle. Mr. LIEBELER - Standing across Elm Street? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - With a motion picture camera? Mr. HUDSON - Well he had a camera - I don't know whether it was a motion picture camera or not, but he had a camera. Mr. LIEBELER - I show you another picture which we will mark as Hudson Exhibit No. 1. I have put my initials on the back of the picture. Would you do that too so we can identify the picture before we start to talk about it, so we don't get confused? Mr. HUDSON - You mean - put my name? Mr. LIEBELER - Just your initials. Mr. HUDSON - [Marked picture as requested.] Is that all right? Mr. LIEBELER - Now, let's take a look at that picture, Mr. Hudson, and let me ask you if you can see in that picture, where you were standing? Mr. HUDSON -(no response.) Mr. LIEBELER - Now, this picture, Hudson Exhibit No. 1, has a sign in it that says "Stemmons Freeway, keep right." doesn't it? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Can you find that sign on the photograph No. 18 of the Commission Exhibit No. 875? The one that we were talking about before. Mr. HUDSON - That's right here, I believe - right here. Mr. LIEBELER - Now, that sign says, "R. L. Thornton Freeway, keep right." Where is the Stemmons Freeway sign in this picture? Can you see it in that picture at all - I can't. Mr. HUDSON - I can't either - that isn't it - it's farther up this way. Mr. LIEBELER - That's further back up and it's out of the picture? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - There are two signs in picture No. 18, one says, "R.L. Thornton Freeway, keep right." and the other one says, "Fort worth Turnpike, keep right." Mr. HUDSON - There were two of them that wasn't too far apart right throught here - them signs was - one was right along in here and the other one was either further up, I guess. It's not in that picture - I don't believe. Now, they have moved some of those signs. They have moved the R.L. Thornton Freeway sign and put up a Stemmons sign. Mr. LIEBELER - They have? They have moved it? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - That might explain it, because this picture here, No. 18, was taken after the assassination and this one was taken at the time - No. 1. Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it had to be right along in there - those steps have got to come down right along in here, if I see the picture right. Npw, this is Elm right here coming around like this - it comes over here and the steps begin right along up in there somewhere and come on down right here to the sidewalk, right along in there somewhere to where those steps is. Mr. LIEBELER - So, that you think you were standing somewhere in the back left-hand part Mr. HUDSON - Yes; this was taken at the present time - it happened - this picture was? Mr. LIEBELER - Yes; this is an actual picture of the motorcade itself; yes sir. Let me suggest that the pictures are taken from different angles, referring to photograph No. 18 of Commission Exhibit No. 875 - there is a little concrete stand here in the very right-hand side of the picture. Mr. HUDSON - That's just right along in here. Mr. LIEBELER - That's right, and that appers in Hudson Exhibit No. 1 immediately to the left of the sign that says, "Stemmons Freeway, keep right." does it not? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; those steps are right along there between that concrete - the end of that concrete wall right there and that elm tree come between them - no, not an elm but that's a live oak tree - that's a live oak tree right there. Mr. LIEBELER - And that's right off of the end of this concrete embankment there, there's a live oak tree there. Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Can you see yourself in that picture anywhere, can you mak yourself out? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I can't , unless it is one of these two men right here - I can't tell - if I had that picture that was taken in the Times Herald paper - I can show you myself in it. Mr. LIEBELER - Which one is that? Mr. HUDSON - Well, it was in the Times Herald paper the next morning after, I believe, after the assassination, maybe the evening after the assassination. Mr. LIEBELER - Look at this picture. Mr. HUDSON - [Examining picture referred to.] I don't know - if that's one of them men myself or not up there. Mr. LIEBELER - I have shown you Commission Exhibit No. 203 and you are not able to point to yourself in that picture at any place. Actually, Commission Exhibit No, 203 shows a different area. Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir Mr. LIEBELER - That's a picture from the front of the Texas School Book Depository Building and you wouldn't be in that picture, according to where you placed yourself by looking at Hudson Exhibit No. 1. Mr. HUDSON - No; I wouldn't be in that at all - I know. If they had that picture that was taken - a fellow was shooting from across Elm up toward those steps here, that showed my picture in it, I believe. Now, I could be one of those men standing right there - I'm not for sure - I wouldn't say for sure that I was one of them or not, but I can't see it well enough to tell. Mr. LIEBELER - In this picture here you see the car is going down Elm Street, isn't that right, referring to Hudson Exhibit No. 1? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - And it is just about to pass a sign that says, "Stemmons Freeway, keep right." Do you think that the President could have been hit when he was that far back up Elm Street? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - You do think that? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - And you heard another shot after that time? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think, looking at Hudson Exhibit No. 1, do you think that is about the place where the president got hit in the head, or was it further back up on Elm or was it further down - if so - about where was it? Mr. HUDSON - That's somewher pretty close. Mr. LIEBELER - That's pretty close right there? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it's somewhere pretty close. Mr. LIEBELER - After you heard these three shots and saw the president get hit in the head, you turned around and you ran up on the little knoll there and you got away. Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - While you were standing there, did you ever look toward the railroad tracks there where they went across the triple underpass? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; while I was laying there I didn't - I was looking down towards Elm Street. Mr. LIEBELER - So, you never looked up towards the railroad tracks that went across the underpass? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - But you are quite sure in your own mind that the shots came from the rear of the President's car and above it; is that correct? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any idea that they might have come from the Texas School Book Depository Building? Mr. HUDSON - Well, it sounded like it was high, you know, from above and kind of behind like - in other words, to the left. Mr. LIEBELER - And that would have fit in with the Texas School Book Depository, wouldn't it? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you look up there and see if you could see anybody? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I didn't. I never thought about looking up that way, to tell you the truth about it. Mr. LIEBELER - You were thinking about getting out of the way after things started? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it was just such an exciting time, you know, a fellow thinks about a million things in one second there at that time. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see anybody standing around there any place with a rifle - on the grassy spot up there near where you were standing or on the overpass or anyplace else? Mr. HUDSON - I never seen anyone with a gun up there except the patrols. Mr. LIEBELER - The policemen? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Now, did you see anything else down there when this all happened that you think we ought to know about that I haven't asked you about? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I don't know of anything. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see Govenor Connally - did you think Governor Connally had been hit? Mr. HUDSON - Well, sir; I never noticed Governor Connally in the car. The first shot must have struck him and he had done fell over in the car when that happened. Mr. LIEBELER - So that you didn't even see Governor Connally in the car at all? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't see him get hit by any of the shots? Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - You are assuming that maybe he got hit by the first shot and fell down in the car. Mr. HUDSON - That's right. Mr. LIEBELER - And you saw the President get hit by what you heard as the second shot? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - How far apart were the shots spaced; do you have any recollection about that, how long did it take for all the shots to be fired and how far apart was one shot from the other? Mr. HUDSON - Well they was pretty fast and not fast either. It seemed like he had plenty of time to operate his gun plenty well - when the shots were all fired. Mr. LIEBELER - How much time do you think passed from the time the first shot was fired untill the second shot was fired, can you make any estimate about that? Mr. HUDSON - Oh, probably 2 minutes. Mr. LIEBELER - As much as 2 minutes? Mr. HUDSON - It might not have been that long. Mr. LIEBELER - But you thought he had plenty of time to get all of the shots off anyway? Mr. HUDSON - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever do any shooting? Mr. HUDSON - Well, not no big rifle - I haven't ever done no shooting with no big rifle. I have shot shotguns - .22's and things like that. Mr. LIEBELER - Did the shots seem evenly spaced or were some of them closer together? Mr. HUDSON - They seemed pretty well evenly spaced. Mr. LIEBELER - Evenly spaced; is that it? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Did anybody talk toy uou at all about security arrangements prior to the time the motorcade came by, or was that all handled by the police? Mr. HUDSON - That was all handled by the police. Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't have anything to do with anything like that? Mr. HUDSON - That's right - the fact of the business is, I didn't know they had been routed that way. Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't even know it was going to go buy until they came? Mr. HUDSON - That's right. Mr. LIEBELER - Have you been interviewed by the FBI? Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember who talked to you? Mr. HUDSON - Not by name, I don't; no, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - And did you tell them approximately the same thing you have told me? Mr. HUDSON - Yes; approximately the same thing. Mr. LIEBELER - Did the Secret Service talk to you, or the Dallas Police Department or the FBI? Mr. HUDSON - The FBI and I made a deposition over at the courthouse - the same day that the assassination was. Mr. LIEBELER - That was the Dallas Police Department or the sheriff's office? Mr. HUDSON - The sheriff's office Mr. LIEBELER - Okay Mr. Hudson, I want to thank you very much for coming in. I don't have any more questions. Mr. HUDSON - Well, if it has been any help, I am glad it did. Mr. LIEBELER - Pardon? Mr. HUDSON - If it has been any help, I am glad to have come down. Mr. LIEBELER - I think you have been and we are glad to have you cooperate with us in the way you have. I want to thank you very much on behalf of the Commission. Mr. HUDSON - All right, good day. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/hudson.htm B........ There was never a third man standing on the steps with Hudson - never! Never ever! - lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 (edited) There was never a third man standing on the steps with Hudson - never! Never ever! - lee Lee, this time you are wrong. The man on the steps who was to Hudson's left is between the camera in Willis and Hudson, which causes him to hide almost all of Hudson. In a really good Willis print the edges of Hudson can be seen. In fact, Hudson's rear end area was lower than the man next to him, so look at the bulges behind the dark man's knees and you will see part of Hudson. I would also use Groden's enlarged version in his book "The Killing of a President". And no, Kathy - Hudson had on a light colored shirt and a dark jacket. The man who ran up the steps did so upon JFK being killed. The photo Duncan posted came well after the assassination. Bill Edited July 21, 2007 by Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eugene B. Connolly Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Compare the figure in both photographs..I say Yes..Your opinions welcomed. Duncan IMO, you're right, Duncan. Same person. Keep up the good work. Eugene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Credit to Jack for this enhancement. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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