Peter McGuire Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Alkun writes: Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Its correct, but the sentence has two meanings. 1) I'm from Berlin 2) I'm a donut Joined: 17 May 2007 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- alkun wrote: So its always been a big joke with German people. And Centril Cali responds: You are repeating an urban legend: Quote: In fact, the statement is grammatically correct and cannot be misunderstood in that context. The urban legend is largely unknown in Germany, where Kennedy's speech is considered a landmark in the country's postwar history. Is it possible this Urban Legend is part of the smearing campaign? Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:33 am Post subject: Ich Bin Ein Berliner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OP's question: For those who understand the German language, did he say that right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpaab-G6GTs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Bronstein Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 I don't speak German, but I believe that in context it's impossible to misunderstand. If you watch or listen to the speech it's apparent from the massive crowd reaction that they understood it. Yes I feel certain that it's part of the ongoing propaganda campaign to erode President Kennedy's image. Good thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Raymond Carroll Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Yes I feel certain that it's part of the ongoing propaganda campaign to erode President Kennedy's image.Good thread. I believe this urban legend got its liftoff from a scurrilous book called "A Question of Character" by a guy named Thomas Reeves. That book was most definitely an attempt to erode Kennedy's image. When the author appeared on the Phil Donahue TV show he was accompanied by Richard Helms of the CIA. As most members are aware, Helms has not been eliminated as a suspect in the assassination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Bronstein Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Yes I feel certain that it's part of the ongoing propaganda campaign to erode President Kennedy's image.Good thread. I believe this urban legend got its liftoff from a scurrilous book called "A Question of Character" by a guy named Thomas Reeves. That book was most definitely an attempt to erode Kennedy's image. When the author appeared on the Phil Donahue TV show he was accompanied by Richard Helms of the CIA. As most members are aware, Helms has not been eliminated as a suspect in the assassination. Woah J. Ray. That is an interesting piece if info. Thank you! So far, based on your tip, I found this: http://www.jfk-info.com/pjm-4.htm "On May 30 and 31, 1991, Priscilla appeared on a two-part "Donahue" program, along with authors Michael Beschloss (1) (The Crisis Years: Kennedy and Khrushchev, 1960-63) and Thomas Reeves (A Question of Character: A Life of John F. Kennedy), as well as Richard Helms, the former director of the CIA." Does anyone know if there is audio or video of this program available? And or a transcript? I didn't think that propaganda was Helms' specialty but he sure indulged in it. Perhaps it wasn't a vocation but an avocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Raymond Carroll Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 I didn't think that propaganda was Helms' specialty but he sure indulged in it.Perhaps it wasn't a vocation but an avocation. Helms began his career as a journalist. Perhaps it was then he learned how easily the press can be manipulated. The Reeves book was favorably reviewed by the Washington Post, but the New York Times dismissed it as a compendium of rumors and innuendeo. I can recall the Headline in the Times's Sunday Book Review: HE WAS NO JACK KENNEDY. When Seymour Hersh's book appeared some ten-plus years later, repeating much of the material in Reeves's book, the Times assigned the review to Thomas Powers, biographer of Richard Helms. All the rumor and innuendo suddenly became the gospel according to the New York Times. It would be a tough job to itemize all the evils wrought (so far) by the murder of this one good and great man, but the complete corruption of the media would be somewhere on the list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Bronstein Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 ...It would be a tough job to itemize all the evils wrought (so far) by the murder of this one good and great man, but the complete corruption of the media would be somewhere on the list Gee, I'm not normally one to say 'amen,'... But I'll say a silent one here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Peter McGuire Posted Aug 8 2007, 03:43 PM Alkun writes: Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Its correct, but the sentence has two meanings. 1) I'm from Berlin 2) I'm a donut Joined: 17 May 2007 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- alkun wrote: So its always been a big joke with German people. And Centril Cali responds: You are repeating an urban legend: Quote: In fact, the statement is grammatically correct and cannot be misunderstood in that context. The urban legend is largely unknown in Germany, where Kennedy's speech is considered a landmark in the country's postwar history. Is it possible this Urban Legend is part of the smearing campaign? Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:33 am Post subject: Ich Bin Ein Berliner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OP's question: For those who understand the German language, did he say that right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpaab-G6GTs Peter, As far as I know the correct way to say it would have been: "Ich bin Berliner." in English "I am a Berliner." Adding the "ein" word to his sentence changes the precise meaning of the sentence to your no. 2 translation. However, in my view, to the Germans the difference was so slight (considering that this came from a non-native speaker), that like Myra stated, they all cheered as they knew exactly what he wanted to say: "I am one of you guys." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 (edited) I don't know if it was the Donahue Show, but I remember Helms on some talk show back then mention JFK's "womanizing." I don't recall for sure what the context was, but I remember that it seemed to be a rather gratuitous and telling comment, my impression being that Helms may have thought JFK's womanizing was a good reason to get rid of him. Edited August 10, 2007 by Ron Ecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen Turner Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 So JFK misspoke in German, thank God nothing like that could happen with the present incumbant. "We got an issue in America, too many Docs, OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their, er, er, their love with Women all across the Country" " Free Societies will be allies against those hateful few who have no conscience, who kill at the whim of a hat" Ich Bin Ein Berliner is starting to sound pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 "who kill at the whim of a hat" Could Bush have been thinking of Hatman? The adventures of Hatman may be one of the bedtime stories that his daddy told him - even though Dubya was 17 in 1963. He was still reading "My Pet Goat" at the age of 55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen Turner Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 "who kill at the whim of a hat" Could Bush have been thinking of Hatman? RON, I THINK HE MEANT TO SAY, AT THE DROP OF A HAT, BUT WHO KNOWS, PERHAPS CHENEY HAD TOLD HIM BIN LADEN HAD MORPHED INTO A NICE TRILBY, THUS MAKING IT MUCH HARDER TO APPREHEND HIM. "My Pet Goat" at the age of 55. YES, BUT LETS BE FAIR, HE SEEMED TO BE DOING A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF KEEPING UP WITH ALL THOSE 10 YEAR OLDS. AND OF COURSE CARD KEPT BUTTING IN, MAKING IT HARD FOR DUBYA TO CONSENTRATE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary Loughran Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 As I understand this, from German friends, the term is correct, in context and grammar, as used by JFK. To say "Ich bin Berliner" would be erroneous because JFK was not from Berlin, his accent may also have given this away. To say "Ich Bin Ein Berliner" indicated he was one with or like the Berlin people; or indeed a type of German jelly donut. A Berliner, unfortunately, was also a type of jelly donut in Germany - however in context he was, I have been led to believe, completely correct. A matter of semantics, the last refuge in a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Bronstein Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 ...A matter of semantics, the last refuge in a debate. Nicely said Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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