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Lyman Lemnitzer


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Thought it was about time we had a thread about General Lemnitzer. According to Namebase this are the references to Lemnitzer in history books:

http://www.namebase.org/main3/Lyman-L-_28g...-Lemnitzer.html

American Security Council. Strategy Board. 1984

Ashman,C. The CIA-Mafia Link. 1975 (29-30)

Bamford,J. Body of Secrets. 2001 (65, 67-75, 79-86)

Bird,K. The Chairman. 1992 (462)

Bird,K. The Color of Truth. 1998 (201-2)

Blumenthal,S. Yazijian,H. Government by Gunplay. 1976 (247)

Bradlee,B. A Good Life. 1995 (219)

CIA. Report on Plots to Assassinate Fidel Castro 1967-04-25 (112)

Colby,G. Dennett,C. Thy Will Be Done. 1995 (356, 833)

Corson,W. The Armies of Ignorance. 1977 (391, 399)

Council on Foreign Relations. Membership Roster. 1985

CounterSpy 1975-W (28)

Covert Action Information Bulletin 1986-#25 (32)

DiEugenio,J. Destiny Betrayed. 1992 (257)

Escalante,F. The Secret War. 1995 (101)

Fitzgerald,F. Way Out There in the Blue. 2000 (82)

Gibson,J. The Perfect War: Technowar in Vietnam. 1986 (387)

Guardian (New York) 1975-01-15 (3)

Hersh,B. The Old Boys. 1992 (129)

Hersh,S. The Dark Side of Camelot. 1997 (214, 265, 276-7, 279)

Hinckle,W. Turner,W. The Fish is Red. 1981 (112)

Ignatyev,O. Secret Weapon in Africa. 1977 (15)

Jeffreys-Jones,R. The CIA and American Democracy. 1989 (130)

Kaplan,F. The Wizards of Armageddon. 1983 (273-4)

Klare,M. War Without End. 1972 (44, 68)

Martin,D. Wilderness of Mirrors. 1981 (126)

McClintock,M. Instruments of Statecraft. 1992 (135-6, 167, 182, 339)

Miller,J. Engelberg,S. Broad,W. Germs. 2002 (51, 54)

Mollenhoff,C. The Pentagon. 1967 (244)

New American Movement Newspaper 1975-02

Newman,J. JFK and Vietnam. 1992 (29, 98, 467)

Nikitin,V. The Ultras in the USA. 1981 (175, 177)

Olmsted,K. Challenging the Secret Government. 1996 (48-50)

Operation Zapata: Bay of Pigs Testimony. 1984 (8, 313-36)

Perry,M. Four Stars. 1989 (91, 99-101, 345)

Prados,J. Presidents' Secret Wars. 1988 (191, 198)

Prouty,L.F. JFK. 1992 (169, 214, 222-4)

Pyadyshev,B. The Military-Industrial Complex of the USA. 1977 (47)

Sanders,J. Peddlers of Crisis. 1983 (157)

Scott,P.D... The Assassinations: Dallas and Beyond. 1976 (495)

Shultz,R. The Secret War Against Hanoi. 1999 (51, 270, 282-3)

Simpson,C. The Splendid Blond Beast. 1993 (202, 239-40, 242)

Smith,B. The Shadow Warriors. 1983 (304)

Tarpley,W.G. Chaitkin,A. George Bush. 1992 (289)

Thomas,E. The Very Best Men. 1996 (263)

Tully,A. CIA: The Inside Story. 1962 (250)

Washington Post 1988-11-13 (B5)

Wise,D. Ross,T. The Invisible Government. 1974 (22, 37, 68)

Wise,D. The American Police State. 1978 (193)

Wyden,P. Bay of Pigs. 1979 (79)

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKlemnitzer.htm

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Guest Stephen Turner

John, hidden somewhere in the vast depths of the Forum, is a thread I started on Lemnitzer, LeMay and Lems sidekick Craig, with special emphasis on the enmity that existed between the Kennedy Administration, and the JCS. I'll see if I cant dig it out.

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John, hidden somewhere in the vast depths of the Forum, is a thread I started on Lemnitzer, LeMay and Lems sidekick Craig, with special emphasis on the enmity that existed between the Kennedy Administration, and the JCS. I'll see if I cant dig it out.

Lemnitzer and LeMay are prime suspects. If there is a list of the

"military brass" at the JFK autopsy "who seemed to be in charge"

and "dictating to the autopists", I'd bet they were there. It the

operation was a military coup, their hands were unclean...all the JCS.

Jack

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Guest Stephen Turner
John, hidden somewhere in the vast depths of the Forum, is a thread I started on Lemnitzer, LeMay and Lems sidekick Craig, with special emphasis on the enmity that existed between the Kennedy Administration, and the JCS. I'll see if I cant dig it out.

Lemnitzer and LeMay are prime suspects. If there is a list of the

"military brass" at the JFK autopsy "who seemed to be in charge"

and "dictating to the autopists", I'd bet they were there. It the

operation was a military coup, their hands were unclean...all the JCS.

Jack

Jack, absolutely, the JCS, through Walker and Dulles are prime candidates. there are witnesess who claim that LeMay was present at Bethesda throughout the autopsy, grinning like a Cheshire cat, and chomping on a cheroot.

Lemnitzer, at least according to the official records, was in Germany throughout.

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There are several reasons why Lyman Lemnitzer needs to be considered as someone who might have been involved in the assassination of JFK.

During the Bay of Pigs crisis Lemnitzer advocated that JFK launch an attack on Cuba. Kennedy refused and reminded him "over and over again" that he would not commit U.S. combat forces to save the operation. Kennedy told Arthur Schlesinger that he would not be "overawed by professional military advice". Schlesinger added "he thought Lemnitzer was a dope." Some time after this event Lemnitzer described Kennedy's attitude as "absolutely reprehensible, almost criminal."

On 20th July, 1961, at a National Security Council meeting, Lemnitzer presented Kennedy with an official plan for a surprise nuclear attack on the Soviet Union. Kennedy was disgusted and walked out of the meeting and later remarked to Secretary of State Dean Rusk "and we call ourselves the human race."

In April 1961 General Edwin Walker, commander of the 24th Infantry Division in Europe, was accused of indoctrinating his troops with right-wing literature from the John Birch Society. With the agreement of JFK's Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara relieved Walker of his command and announced an investigation into the affair. Kennedy was accused of trying to suppress the anti-Communist feelings of the military. Walker resigned from the army in protest about the way he had been treated.

David Talbot argues in his book, Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years, that Walker's indoctrination program had been endorsed by General Lemnitzer. Talbot quotes a letter from Lemnitzer to Walker saying that he found his efforts "interesting and useful."

On 13th March, 1962, General Lemnitzer presented Robert McNamara with a top-secret memo, urging President Kennedy to order a variety of shocking incidents to create a rationale for invading Cuba. Code named Operation Northwoods, the memo suggested that the administration should arrange a terror campaign in Miami and Washington that would create international revulsion against the government of Fidel Castro.

JFK summoned Lemnitzer to the Oval Office on 16th March, 1962, where they discussed Operation Northwoods. Kennedy rejected the idea and three months later he told Lemnitzer that he was being moved from the Pentagon to become Commander of U.S. Forces in Europe.

After retiring from the army he was a member of the American Security Council (ASC), the lobby for the military-industrial complex. The ASC was formed by Robert Wood and Robert R. McCormick in 1952. Other members of this organization included Douglas MacArthur, Sam Rayburn, Ray S. Cline, Thomas J. Dodd, W. Averell Harriman, Nelson A. Rockefeller, Eugene V. Rostow, John G. Tower and Patrick J. Frawley. I suspect that members of the ASC could have funded the assassination. If that was the case, Ray Cline might well have been the bagman.

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Guest Stephen Turner

John, after Northwoods was rejected out of hand, Lemnitzer went into an incredible sulk, refusing to talk directly to JFK, or even to him through McNamara. this probably helped to hasten his departure to Europe.

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John, hidden somewhere in the vast depths of the Forum, is a thread I started on Lemnitzer, LeMay and Lems sidekick Craig, with special emphasis on the enmity that existed between the Kennedy Administration, and the JCS. I'll see if I cant dig it out.

Lemnitzer and LeMay are prime suspects. If there is a list of the

"military brass" at the JFK autopsy "who seemed to be in charge"

and "dictating to the autopists", I'd bet they were there. It the

operation was a military coup, their hands were unclean...all the JCS.

Jack

Jack, absolutely, the JCS, through Walker and Dulles are prime candidates. there are witnesess who claim that LeMay was present at Bethesda throughout the autopsy, grinning like a Cheshire cat, and chomping on a cheroot.

...

Definitely. Not enough attention is paid to Walker and LeMay and Lemnitzer and the JCS.

People here will list their top suspects and they're all Cuban exiles.

That's great work and valid and critical, but the exiles are just one faction in this plot and there is much more to it.

President Kennedy encouraged the filming of "Six Days in May" for a reason.

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Here is a brief of evidence as I understand it that the assassination was carried out at the highhest levels of the military, including Lemay.

-The secure inter governmental and military phone system went out during the assassination, leaving interdepartmental contact difficult.

-The cabinet was in the air at the time, creating a difficulty for chain of command or any notion of stability within the government.

-At any one givn time during the cold war there were 7 bombers in the air on 3 8 hours shifts a day with a payload of nuclear weapons waiting to be dropped at the drop of a hat. When the pilots of these bombers became aware of Kennedy's assassination they rushed to get their command codes, which would tell them what to do in this emergency and would also give them the codes required to drop the bombs. The pilots must have assumed that it was the Soviets that had shot Kennedy and so thought it best that they were prepared to attack. This system was known as the Strategic Air Command, a system designed by general Curtis LeMay. When the pilots on all 7 bombers tried to find their code books, they were gone. The removal of the codebooks could only have come from the top of the chain, as the books needed to go through 17 different sets of hands. The only one who could have had these removed was Curtis Lemay. The reasoning behind was obviously that he knew what was going down in Dallas and did not want others in the military to over react.

-The autopsy of JFK took place at Bethesda, a military hospital. This is crucial in understanding who controlled the cover-up.

-At the time of Kennedy's assassination, the only place that the threat level was raised was in Vietnam, presumably because they knew that they were going to get an influx of troops quite soon.

-John Judge's mother worked for the Pentagon in 1963 and was the highest paid female civilian there at the time, she was 5 levels above top secret. It was her job to make predictions for troop level numbers that would be needed for the next ten years in advance, based on projections made by the joint chiefs of staff. In April of 1963 she was told to accomodate her figures to include a complete withdrawal of U.S. troops from Vietnam by 1964. In late November of 1963 she was presented with new figures by the joint chiefs and told to make predictions for a ten year war in Vietnam that would have casualties of 52,000 american troops. She could not believe the figures that were presented to her and brought them to the joint chiefs to confirm. She was told to change her predictions on the Monday following the assassination of President Kennedy.

We must understand that the CIA receives only 20% of the total intelligence budget, the rest goes to the DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, which includes the Office of Naval Intelligence, Military Intelligence, Air Force Intelligence and other military intelligence establishments. The CIA is largely a think tank, which formulates plans for the military to act upon. The one thing I notice from pouring over CIA documents is that everybody has a title, everybody is a chief of something. CIA staff in most countries was minimal. If they needed an operation done, they would plan it and hand it over to the military or contract it out to assets.

John

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We must understand that the CIA receives only 20% of the total intelligence budget, the rest goes to the DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, which includes the Office of Naval Intelligence, Military Intelligence, Air Force Intelligence and other military intelligence establishments. The CIA is largely a think tank, which formulates plans for the military to act upon. The one thing I notice from pouring over CIA documents is that everybody has a title, everybody is a chief of something. CIA staff in most countries was minimal. If they needed an operation done, they would plan it and hand it over to the military or contract it out to assets.

I think that what John has written above contains important observations, and is essentially correct.

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There are several reasons why Lyman Lemnitzer needs to be considered as someone who might have been involved in the assassination of JFK.

During the Bay of Pigs crisis Lemnitzer advocated that JFK launch an attack on Cuba. Kennedy refused and reminded him "over and over again" that he would not commit U.S. combat forces to save the operation. Kennedy told Arthur Schlesinger that he would not be "overawed by professional military advice". Schlesinger added "he thought Lemnitzer was a dope." Some time after this event Lemnitzer described Kennedy's attitude as "absolutely reprehensible, almost criminal."

On 20th July, 1961, at a National Security Council meeting, Lemnitzer presented Kennedy with an official plan for a surprise nuclear attack on the Soviet Union. Kennedy was disgusted and walked out of the meeting and later remarked to Secretary of State Dean Rusk "and we call ourselves the human race."

In April 1961 General Edwin Walker, commander of the 24th Infantry Division in Europe, was accused of indoctrinating his troops with right-wing literature from the John Birch Society. With the agreement of JFK's Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara relieved Walker of his command and announced an investigation into the affair. Kennedy was accused of trying to suppress the anti-Communist feelings of the military. Walker resigned from the army in protest about the way he had been treated.

David Talbot argues in his book, Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years, that Walker's indoctrination program had been endorsed by General Lemnitzer. Talbot quotes a letter from Lemnitzer to Walker saying that he found his efforts "interesting and useful."

On 13th March, 1962, General Lemnitzer presented Robert McNamara with a top-secret memo, urging President Kennedy to order a variety of shocking incidents to create a rationale for invading Cuba. Code named Operation Northwoods, the memo suggested that the administration should arrange a terror campaign in Miami and Washington that would create international revulsion against the government of Fidel Castro.

JFK summoned Lemnitzer to the Oval Office on 16th March, 1962, where they discussed Operation Northwoods. Kennedy rejected the idea and three months later he told Lemnitzer that he was being moved from the Pentagon to become Commander of U.S. Forces in Europe.

After retiring from the army he was a member of the American Security Council (ASC), the lobby for the military-industrial complex. The ASC was formed by Robert Wood and Robert R. McCormick in 1952. Other members of this organization included Douglas MacArthur, Sam Rayburn, Ray S. Cline, Thomas J. Dodd, W. Averell Harriman, Nelson A. Rockefeller, Eugene V. Rostow, John G. Tower and Patrick J. Frawley. I suspect that members of the ASC could have funded the assassination. If that was the case, Ray Cline might well have been the bagman.

Dang, that is a fine post John.

I didn't even know about the ASC.

Sounds like a big dot to connect.

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