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Shots from inside the presidential limo


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Had someone fired at JFK at point blank range in the car there would have been powder burns on his face...

The following extract helps clarify this issue; and demonstrates that Connally’s clothes were treated with the same reverence for their evidential value as Kennedy’s:

Chapter 5, Parkland, from Fred T. Newcomb’s & Perry Adams’ Murder From Within (Santa Barbara: Probe, 1974):

Connally’s clothes would indicate the wounds and bullets. Before the FBI could examine them, his clothes were “…cleaned and pressed.”(1) Furthermore, the FBI was unable to obtain the clothes until April 1964 (2), over four months after the murder.

The cloth about the hole in the coat, shirt, and trousers lacked any trace of metal (3), which made it impossible to determine if a bullet had even gone through them (4). If Connally was within 18 inches of the gun muzzle, powder residues at that distance would show up during an FBI laboratory examination (5): cleaning would remove them.

Other discrepancies appeared when the wounds in Connally’s body were compared with the holes in his clothes.

The FBI reported that the hole in the back of the coat was elongated horizontally (6). A Parkland Hospital doctor said that the back wound was elongated vertically (7). While the FBI stated that the hole in the right sleeve was elongated horizontally (8), the wound in the forearm was elongated vertically (9).

Although holes in the coat corresponded with holes in the shirt (10), because of “…excessive tearing of the cloth, none of these holes [in the shirt] were well defined.”(11)

In short, not only was the clothing cleaned, but the holes were altered sufficiently to defy analysis (Fig 5-5).

Who got the clothing? A high-ranking aide of Lyndon Johnson, Clifton C. Carter received the clothing from a Parkland Hospital nurse (12). Carter signed a slip for the clothing, received the garments in two paper bags, and passed the bags on to Congressman Henry B. Gonzales (13). The next day, Nov. 23, 1963, at 3:30 a.m., the bags were in the apartment closet of Gonzales in Washington, D.C.(14)

At Parkland Hospital, the clothing was divided into two groups. One group – tie, trousers, and socks – was given to Connally’s wife when Connally underwent surgery (15). The second group, which contained the key evidence – the coat and shirt – was elsewhere.

Connally’s wife claimed that the coat and shirt were finally found in the closet of Congressman Gonzales (16). According to Gonzales, two Secret Service agents picked-up the clothing “…more than two weeks after the assassination…” (17) In addition, Connally’s wife said, “…it was almost two months before any of the investigators showed any interest in examining John’s clothes.” (18) She asserted that she soaked the shirt in cold water in order to preserve it.(19) Cold water will remove blood stains from clothing.

The coat and trousers, as photographed by the FBI, show a cleaned and pressed appearance (Fig. 5-5).(20) Their unrumpled condition is unlikely after storage in paper bags.

The coat, rather than preserved as evidence, was chalked and worn by Connally’s stand-in during a Commission re-enactment on May 24, 1964 (21).

Parkland doctors examined the clothing for the first time in April 1964 (22), when they testified before the Warren Commission, four months after the assassination.

(1) Frazier, op. cit., v. 5, pp. 63, 64, 65

(2) Commission Document No. 1066, p. 282.

(3) Ibid., p. 283.

(4) Frazier, loc. cit.

(5) Armed Forces, Autopsy Manual, p. 60: “If the bullet was fired from close range (under 18 inches), chemical or metallic residues are likely to be present on the skin or clothing of the wounded person.”

(6) According to the FBI, “The hole in the back of the coat is approximately ¼” [wide] by ⅝” [0.6 cm x 1.6 cm], being elongated in a horizontal direction” (Commission Document No. 1066, p. 282).

(7) “Commission Exhibit No. 679. ‘Body diagram marked by Dr. Shaw to show the entry and exit wounds on Governor Connally’s chest, wrist, and thigh,’” in Hearings, v. 17, p. 336. Note: Dr. Shires said the Secret Service prepared the original charts (v. 6, p. 112). Dr. Shaw had to correct them and the revised ones (v. 6, pp. 86-87; v. 4, pp. 104-105, 126).

(8) The hole was ⅜” x ⅝” (0.96 x 1.6 cm). Commission Document No. 1066, p. 282

(9) “Commission Exhibit No. 679,” loc. cit.

(10) Commission Document No. 1066, p. 282.

(11) Ibid.

(12) Ruth J. Standridge, “Testimony of Ruth Jeanette Standridge [date March 21, 1964],” in Hearings, v. 6, p. 118. Note: During the motorcade, Carter sat in the front seat of the Vice-President’s follow-up car. Carter had the Secret Service radio on his lap while the first shot was fired from the car (Carter, op. cit., v. 7, p. 474). Congressman Henry B. Gonzalez stated that a nurse at Parkland “…quite frantically…tried to turn them [Connally’s clothing] over to either Cliff Carter, an LBJ aide…or I” (Henry B. Gonzalez, Letter to Fred T. Newcomb, dated Nov. 1, 1974, p. 1).

(13) Fletcher Knebel, “After the Shots: The Ordeal of Lyndon Johnson,” Look, March 10, 1964, p. 28.

Note: This slip is absent from the Warren Commission’s evidence. According to Gonzalez, “Cliff simply did not want to be burdened with the sack and wanted me to take it instead.” (Gonzalez, ibid.)

(14) Knebel, op. cit., p.33. Gonzalez said he retained the clothing “…because I had not been able to turn it over to anyone else.” (Gonzalez, ibid., p. 2.)

(15) “A Matter of Reasonable Doubt,” Life, Nov. 25, 1966, p. 48.

(16) Ibid.

(17) Henry B. Gonzalez, Letter to Fred T. Newcomb, dated Nov. 15, 1974. Henry B. Gonzalez, Letter to Fred T. Newcomb, dated Nov. 1, 1974, p. 2.

(18) Life, loc. cit.

(19) Ibid.

(20) “Commission Exhibit No. 683. ‘Front view of coat worn by Governor Connally at the time of the assassination,’” in Hearings, v. 17, p. 340.

“Commission Exhibit No. 684. ‘Back view of coat worn by Governor Connally at the time of the assassination,’” in Hearings, v. 17, p. 341.

“Commission Exhibit No. 687. ‘Front view of pants worn by Governor Connally at the time of the assassination,’” in Hearings, v. 17, p. 344.

(21) Thomas J. Kelley, “Testimony of Thomas J. Kelley [dated June 4, 1964],” in Hearings, v. 5, p. 134.

(22) Shaw, op. cit., v. 4, p. 112. “Connally’s bullet-torn suit, his necktie, and his shirt with French cuffs were displayed for a time at the state archives in Austin, and the clothing is still there. However, to see them, one must get Connally’s personal permission.” (Ann F. Crawford and Jack Keever, John B. Connally: Portrait in Power, p. 299.)

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Greer's left hand position between Z312 and Z314. Any sign of him holding a gun or that there was any recoil in those 3/18s of a second - I don't see any.

Nor will you, Bill, the film's a fake!

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...I follow Newcomb & Adams as to the origin of the first shot from the rear:

A gap of about two-car lengths began to grow between the President's follow-up car and the Vice-President's car until it spanned nearly half a block. And, by now, the President's seat was elevated almost a foot.

Just before a freeway sign, the driver began to slow down the presidential limousine.

Suddenly, a shot came from the top of Elm St., now a half block in back of the President. A Secret Service agent in the Vice-President's follow-up car had raised his left hand out of the partly open left, rear window. A revolver was fired skyward.

The crowd's attention was distracted from the presidential limousine by the sudden explosion.

As if in response to this shot in front of the depository, a Secret Service agent in the front of the presidential limousine fired his revolver directly at the President, striking him in the throat. A wind swept the gunsmoke and its distinctive odor back up the street.

Chapter 3, Execution, Murder From Within (Santa Barbara: Probe, 1974).

A challenge, then, to all the many adept film & picture afficionados, Bill Miller included - let's see the best enlargement obtainable of the SS hand in question. If my belief is erroneous, show it for all to see.

The challenge still stands.

A bit more on why, in the fuller account of SS Taylor's decoy shot at the intersection of Houston and Elm:

Fred T. Newcomb & Perry Adams. Murder From Within (Santa Barbara: Probe, 1974): The Decoy Shot, from Chapter 3, Execution:

As the motorcade approached Elm St., an amateur photographer focused his movie camera on the presidential limousine and the front of the depository building. His lens also caught the Vice-President's follow-up car, the third car behind the limousine. This was perhaps a minute before the first shot was fired. The Vice-President's follow-up car was approaching the left-hand turn into Elm St. when both of its rear doors opened, six to eight inches (Fig. 3-2). According to the film, no one got in or out of the car (1).

One witness, standing on the southeast corner of Elm and Houston Streets, saw the follow-up car's open doors (2). After it turned the corner, he "…heard the first report…" which he thought was a car's backfire (3). The Texas Highway Patrolman who was driving the Vice-President's car thought the shot "…appeared to come from the right rear of the Vice-President's car." (4)

Many witnesses said that the first shot sounded like a "firecracker" or a "backfire" (5) in the street.

Altgens' sixth photograph of those he took in Dealey Plaza (Fig. 3-3) tends to support the contention that someone in the motorcade fired a gun into the air at the intersection of Elm and Houston Streets, when the limousine was about 100 feet down Elm St.

Altgens' photograph, which was taken about three seconds after the decoy shot was fired, when enlarged (Fig. 3-4) shows Secret Service agent Warren W. Taylor, in the rear left seat (6), of the Vice-President's follow-up car. His arm is outside of the open car door; the configuration of his hand suggests he is holding a gun. Those people in the car immediately behind smelled gunpowder.

Altgens' photograph also shows Lyndon Johnson leaning forward apparently in the process of getting down at a point in time when others in the motorcade seem unaware of any danger (Fig. 3-5). One witness, who stood on the curb of Elm St. during the shooting, said, "wasn't that rather odd that Johnson was on the floor before the shot sounded?" (7)

(1) Film by Robert J. Hughes.

(2) James N. Crawford, “Testimony of James N. Crawford dated April 1, 1964,” in Hearings, v. 6, p.172

(3) Ibid.

(4) Hurchel D. Jacks, “Commission Exhibit No. 1024. ‘Statement of Hurchel D. Jacks, Texas Highway Patrolman, made on November 28, 1963,’ within Letter…” in Hearings, v. 18, p.801.

(5) Heard first shot as “firecracker”:

Winston G. Lawson (v. 4, p.352)

Roy H. Kellerman (v.2, p.73)

David F. Powers (v.7, p.473)

Kenneth P. O’Donnell (v. 7, p.447)

Glen A. Bennett

George W. Hickey, Jr.

John D. Ready

Clinton J. Hill

Claudia A. (Lady Bird) Johnson

Jerry D. Kivett

Clifton C. Carter

Thomas L. Johns

Warren W. Taylor

Earle Cabell

James R. Underwood

Robert H. Jackson

S.R. Yates

Mrs. Jack Franzen

Jack Franzen

William F. Newman

Mrs. Billy P. Clay

John A. Chism

Mrs. Jean Newman

James W. Altgens

Ronald B. Fischer

Dolores A. Kounas

Hugh W. Betzner Jr.

Edgar L. Smith, Jr.,

Miss Mary A. Mitchell

Mrs. Ruby Henderson

Welcome F. Barnett

Roy S. Truly

Mrs. Donald S. Baker

Miss Judy M. Johnson

William H. Shelley

Billy N. Lovelady

Miss Victoria F. Adams

Dorothy A. Garner

Mrs. Alvin Hopson

George A. Davis

S. M. Holland

J. W. Foster

Nolan H. Potter

Austin L. Miller

James T. Tague

Barbara Rowland

Seymour Weitzman

Mrs. Lillian Mooneyham

Harry D. Holmes

Betty Jean Thornton

Heard first shot as “backfire”:

William R. Greer

Thomas L. Johns

Malcolm O. Couch

Mrs. Billie P. Clay

Howard L. Brennan

Amos L. Euins

Hugh W. Betzner, Jr.

James N. Crawford

Buell W. Frazier

Miss Doris F. Burns

James Jarman, Jr.

Bonnie R. Williams

Royce G. Skleton

Austin L. Miller

Arnold L. Rowland

Edward Shields

Mrs. Ruth Thornton

L.C. Todd

L.C. Smith

(6) Warren W. Taylor, “Commission Exhibit No. 1024. ‘Statement regarding events in Dallas, Texas, on Friday, November 22, 1963,’ within Letter…” in Hearings, v.18, p.782

(7) Interview with Jean L. Hill.

In explaining his first reactions to newsmen, Johnson said that he thought, “the communists had done it.” (David Halberstam, The Best and the Brightest, p.298.) He said, “I think I heard the first shot. I know Mr. Youngblood acted almost simultaneous. I heard reports about shots, ah, exchanges about firecrackers, er, what might be mufflers [backfire], ah, but I, er, I couldn’t be sure. I know I heard the first one. Perhaps heard the others, unless his [Youngblood’s] body covering me kept the sound from coming in there – may have muffled it, but I’m just not sure.” (Walter Cronkite, “LBJ: Tragedy and Transition,” CBS News, May 2, 1970.)

The part in Altgens’ photo that shows Johnson leaning forward is cropped out of the Warren Report (p. 113) and in one of its supporting volumes (v. 18, p.93). The photo was published in another one of the 26 volumes – not as a direct print, which would be clear – from the two-page spread in the Saturday Evening Post of Dec. 14, 1963 (pp.24-25). In addition to poor reproduction, it was not printed whole: one half was printed on one page, the other half on the next page (v.21, pp.781-782).

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See if you, too, can spot the minor discrepancy with the official version of JFK’s time at Parkland:

“Then they took the president to another emergency room. I stayed with him through the examination and then through the autopsy, and was with him when they put the body in the coffin and took him back to Air Force One,”

Greer interview with Bob Tyrell, Asheville Citizen-Times, 6 November 1983, p.5D

Credit to Fred Newcomb for the spot.

Yes, Paul ... Greer is apparently recalling the events of that day some 20 years later ... is he getting things out of order or did the interviewer make the error? Either way - none if it has to do with him allegedly shooting JFK.

Bill Miller

Neither, Bill, he was almost certainly recalling the intended "autopsy" at Parkland.

See testimony of Jane Webster, “the assistant supervisor in the operating room,” who testified as follows before the Presidential Commission in March 1964:

Webster: I received a phone call from the emergency room asking us to set up a craniotomy.

Specter: And what is a craniotomy in lay language?

Webster: That’s an exploration of the head.

Specter: “Was there any other request made at that time?

Webster: Yes – well – immediately following, following that I received a call to set up for a thoracotomy, which is an exploration of the chest.

Specter: And were these two set ups made in accordance with the requests you received?

Webster: Yes; I immediately assigned personnel to set up these two rooms for these two cases.

Specter: And what room was used for the craniotomy?

Webster: The craniotomy was set up in room 7.

Specter: And what room was set up for the throracotomy?

Webster: The thoracotomy was set up in room 5.

Specter: And on what floor were the two rooms?

Webster: Well, on the south wing of the second floor.

Specter: What happened next in connection with this matter?

Webster: I assigned personnel to take care of the doorways to keep traffic out of the operating room and keep people back – keep the halls clear. Shortly thereafter, Governor Connally arrived in the operating room with several doctors – arrived by stretcher.

6WCH121

Later in the same exchange, Webster identifies the operating room into which Connally was wheeled as room 5, the site of the intended thoracotomy.

For David Lifton’s ruminations on the plotters intentions at Parkland, and why they were thwarted by the shooting of Connally, see Best Evidence’s Afterword (p.819 in my paperback edition).

For a critical response to Lifton, see Joel Waggoner in The Third Decade, Jan-March 1992, (Vol 8, No 2-3), p.42.

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Greer's left hand position between Z312 and Z314. Any sign of him holding a gun or that there was any recoil in those 3/18s of a second - I don't see any.

Nor will you, Bill, the film's a fake!

Paul, I am beginning to think the same can be said about a certain researcher whether its true or not. So that we can be clear on this ... is it your position that the conspirators faked the Zfilm by altering Greer's true hand position so to hide the fact he shot JFK in the head??? If the answer is yes, then why would they leave the sunshine on Kellerman's head that has been claimed to be the barrel of a gun??? I am sorry, but the things you post make absolutely no sense to me, which looks to be more and more of a good sign from where I sit.

Bill Miller

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Greer's left hand position between Z312 and Z314. Any sign of him holding a gun or that there was any recoil in those 3/18s of a second - I don't see any.

Nor will you, Bill, the film's a fake!

How do you arrive that this conclusion?

Instead of 'faking' this film, wouldnt it have been better for them to destroy it and have no video record?

Seems to me without the Z film, there is no conspiracy at all...it dies on Nov. 22, 1963.

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Greer's left hand position between Z312 and Z314. Any sign of him holding a gun or that there was any recoil in those 3/18s of a second - I don't see any.

Nor will you, Bill, the film's a fake!

How do you arrive that this conclusion?

Instead of 'faking' this film, wouldnt it have been better for them to destroy it and have no video record?

Seems to me without the Z film, there is no conspiracy at all...it dies on Nov. 22, 1963.

Mark,

You assume that the conspirators would not have wished to suggest a conspiracy, that such a tack had no utility to them. Why?

Without wishing to embark on a dissertation on French and Italian intelligence theorists, paranoia has a profound and comprehensive range of uses for a secret police bureaucracy. In 1967-68, it appears to have been used to help focus suspicion on LBJ, contributing to his decision to throw the towel in; from '69 on, Nixon is mired (and mires himself) in a swamp of suspicion, mistrust, and fear.

Remember, too, that not all the literature on the case points the finger at the CIA: It doesn't. The grassy knoll comes to function like a medieval stock, into which a given enemy of the moment can be moved, and removed, as the needs of the hegemonic group within the US elite require.

Furthermore, if no Z fake, we would all be discussing the eyewitness testimony. Now, that would never do, for that would be to treat events Elm as - a crime, like any other, and not a celluloid mystery. The film is designed to obscure and negate the testimony of the eyewitnesses; it has been given a primacy it does not enjoy in law, and should not in common sense.

Paul

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So that we can be clear on this ... is it your position that the conspirators faked the Zfilm by altering Greer's true hand position so to hide the fact he shot JFK in the head???

No, Bill, it isn't my position. The film is designed to mislead us utterly on what happened when on Elm. It wasn't just to hide the activities of Greer and Kellerman.

If the answer is yes, then why would they leave the sunshine on Kellerman's head that has been claimed to be the barrel of a gun???

A question best addressed, I rather think, to those who argue same.

I am sorry, but the things you post make absolutely no sense to me, which looks to be more and more of a good sign from where I sit.

That's because I generally employ English; and you're sitting on your head again.

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Let's not forget hill to moorman, or was it moorman to hill, when one said to the other, paraphrasing here, "get down THEY ARE SHOOTING BACK!".

Shooting back as in shooting back at the sniper or shooting back as in shooting into the back of the limo?

Who knows? No attempt was made to clarify that statement. Was there?

Insinuating that someone is loony tunes for actually pointing out the eyewitness testimony, of several witnesses, which was taken immediately after the shooting, is a pretty cheap shot as far as I'm concerned.

Much of the testimony is at odds with the "official version" of events.

Kennedy described as standing in the limo just before the shots were fired for example.

Laugh all you want to. Something not seen on film happened that day.

Many people described events not shown in any of the films.

Funny thing is....these were the closest persons to Kennedy at the time of the shooting who are giving these versions.

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Paul, I have a real stupid question to ask--how do you know all of those witnesses were there if all the films and photos are fake?

Kathy,

Exactly the way you would in any other murder case – from the media reports, and law enforcement investigations. In this instance, we have an extraordinary abundance of both.

But to flip your question over, how do we know from the films? Pity the poor soul who relies on them.

For example, where on the Z film are the three female book depository employees who said they stood together on the south curb of Elm at roughly the mid-point between the TSBD and the overpass? (Holt, Simmons and Jacob in 22WCH652-3; presence on Elm St in shooting’s immediate aftermath confirmed by policeman Lewis in 19WCH526. You’ll find an amusing series of exchanges on the subject on the JFK Lancer thread entitled Z-film chain of possession needs revising, topic id #41859. By the thread’s conclusion, Bill Miller had shifted the entire south curb of Elm up to the side of the book depository, and all three ladies into Oklahoma. The entire heroic endeavour still makes me chuckle.)

Where, also, is the schoolboy, Alan Smith, who was widely quoted on 23 November in US newspapers? Smith said unequivocally the head shot had struck Kennedy in the forehead, which would strongly suggest he was in front of the President at the time. Now scan the films – he, too, has vanished. (“The car was ten feet from me when a bullet hit the President in the forehead…the car went about five feet and stopped,” Jack Bell, “Eyewitnesses describe scene of assassination: Sounds of shooting brought car to a halt,” NYT, 23 November 1963, p.5)

Minor contradictions between witnesses and films I could accept and rationalise. Wholesale, irreconcilable conflicts, not a chance.

Paul

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Query for your scholars of this point.

Name the witnesses who said SS100 "slowed or stopped".

Name the witnesses who expressly denied it did either.

Name the witnesses who never addressed thiz issue.

Thanks for your asssistance. I think this may be a worthwhile exercise.

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...

C.B. Colby. Secret Service: History, Duties and Equipment (Putnam Pub Group, 1966), p. 20.

According to Merriman Smith, “All [agents on the White House Detail of the Secret Service] are crack shots with either hand. Their pistol marksmanship is tested on one of the toughest ranges in the country. The bull’s-eye of their target is about half the size of the one ordinarily used on police and Army ranges. They must qualify with an unusually high score every thirty days, and if any one of them – or any of the White House police, which falls under Secret Service jurisdiction – falls below a certain marksmanship standard, they are transferred. Agents must also qualify periodically firing from moving vehicles. This accounts for the requirement to shoot well with either hand. A right-handed agent might be clinging to a speeding car with that hand and have to shoot with the left.”

Timothy G. Smith (ed.), Merriman Smith's Book of Presidents. A White House Memoir. ( NY: Norton, 1972), p. 226.

Was this standard in effect in 1963 Paul, or was it imposed as a result of what happened in 1963?

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Query for your scholars of this point.

Name the witnesses who said SS100 "slowed or stopped".

Name the witnesses who expressly denied it did either.

Name the witnesses who never addressed thiz issue.

Thanks for your asssistance. I think this may be a worthwhile exercise.

Just to get the ball rolling:

Hugh William Betzner, Jr., 19WCH467: "I walked down toward where the President's car had stopped."

Roy Truly, 3WCH221: "After the first shot... I saw the President's car swerve to the left and stop somewheres down in the area..."

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See if you, too, can spot the minor discrepancy with the official version of JFK’s time at Parkland:

“Then they took the president to another emergency room. I stayed with him through the examination and then through the autopsy, and was with him when they put the body in the coffin and took him back to Air Force One,”

Greer interview with Bob Tyrell, Asheville Citizen-Times, 6 November 1983, p.5D

Credit to Fred Newcomb for the spot.

Yes, Paul ... Greer is apparently recalling the events of that day some 20 years later ... is he getting things out of order or did the interviewer make the error? Either way - none if it has to do with him allegedly shooting JFK.

Bill Miller

Neither, Bill, he was almost certainly recalling the intended "autopsy" at Parkland.

See testimony of Jane Webster, “the assistant supervisor in the operating room,” who testified as follows before the Presidential Commission in March 1964:

Webster: I received a phone call from the emergency room asking us to set up a craniotomy.

Specter: And what is a craniotomy in lay language?

Webster: That’s an exploration of the head.

Specter: “Was there any other request made at that time?

Webster: Yes – well – immediately following, following that I received a call to set up for a thoracotomy, which is an exploration of the chest.

Specter: And were these two set ups made in accordance with the requests you received?

Webster: Yes; I immediately assigned personnel to set up these two rooms for these two cases.

Specter: And what room was used for the craniotomy?

Webster: The craniotomy was set up in room 7.

Specter: And what room was set up for the throracotomy?

Webster: The thoracotomy was set up in room 5.

Specter: And on what floor were the two rooms?

Webster: Well, on the south wing of the second floor.

Specter: What happened next in connection with this matter?

Webster: I assigned personnel to take care of the doorways to keep traffic out of the operating room and keep people back – keep the halls clear. Shortly thereafter, Governor Connally arrived in the operating room with several doctors – arrived by stretcher.

6WCH121

Later in the same exchange, Webster identifies the operating room into which Connally was wheeled as room 5, the site of the intended thoracotomy.

For David Lifton’s ruminations on the plotters intentions at Parkland, and why they were thwarted by the shooting of Connally, see Best Evidence’s Afterword (p.819 in my paperback edition).

For a critical response to Lifton, see Joel Waggoner in The Third Decade, Jan-March 1992, (Vol 8, No 2-3), p.42.

What is the point to there being scheduled an autopsy being done at Parkland when it comes to Greer? We know the autopsy never happened in Dallas, so what's the point??

Bill Miller

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