Single Items that Prove A Conspiracy

[Tim Gratz]

I want to start a thread on single items which, by taken by themselves, would prove a conspiracy at least by the weight of the evidence.

I start with these ten:

1. If the HSCA acoustics report is correct about a shot from the grassy knoll (whether or not it hit is irrelevant).

2. If Darrell Tomilinson is correct that he found CE399 on a stretcher not related to the assassination.

3. If JC was correct that he was hit from a bullet other than the one which first hit JFK.

4. If Nellie Connally was correct that her husband was not hit by the bullet that firdt hit JFK.

5. If Johnny Rosselli told his lawyer that he was involved in the conspiracy that killed JFK.

6. If Johnny Rosselli met with Jack Ruby in a small Miami motel twice in October of 1963 (meetings might not be related to a conspiracy but a non-sinister explanation seems highly unlikely).

7. If even one of the several witnesses who saw Jack Ruby with LHO before the assassination is correct (again a pre-assassination association of Ruby and Oswald may not be definitely probative of a conspiracy but such evidence would certainly seem at least compelling).

8. If the paraffin test on LHO shows he did not fire a rifle on Nov 22, 1963 because there was no residue on his cheek.

9. If Gene Wheaton is correct that Carl Jenkins told him that anti-Castro Cubans were involved in the assassination (and Jenkins was serious).

10. If the reports of what John Martino told his family on the morning of the assassination (that the president was going to be shot in Dallas) are correct (now confirmed by Martino's son).

It would seem to me that any ONE of the above if true would demolish the theory of LHO as the sole gunman in DP.

Others, ladies and gentlemen?

[Tim Gratz]

PLEASE PLEASE nobody post:

11. If Greer shot JFK.

Let's try to keep this thread very "down-to-earth".

Kidding aside, I would like input on other points that even taken alone are at least compelling if not definitive evidence of a conspiracy.

Thanks!

[Tim Gratz]

Surprises me that no one has suggested another.

I would add this: If it is true, as reported in "Ultimate Sacrifice", that a man witnessed, in Chicago, approximately thirty days before Dallas as I recall, an associate of Jimmy Hoffa giving a large amount of money to Jack Ruby.

[Tim Gratz]

Another addition, and pretty strong evidence of a conspiracy I would say:

"The day before the President was to leave for Texas [Wednesday I assume] two [Dallas] . . . police officers drove through Dealey Plaza on patrol. They noticed several men standing behind a wooden fence on a grassy knoll on one side of the plaza, engaged inwhat looked to be 'target practice' with rifles. When the officers approached the men, they hastened away. The Dallas police gave the officers' report to the FBI which, in turn, issued its own reporet on the incident on November 26, 1963. The FBI report was never part of the Warren Commission's investigation. It resurfaced as the result of a Freedom of Information Act request in 1978."

From Sons and Brothers, page 287.

Edited September 7, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[Tim Gratz]

Could we agree that if Oswald exited DP in a vehicle driven by another that would be fairly persuasive evidence of a conspiracy?

[Phil Nelson]

Could we agree that if Oswald exited DP in a vehicle driven by another that would be fairly persuasive evidence of a conspiracy?

Hi Tim, I'll chime in here to say, YES, you have identified 14 individual items that would all point to a conspiracy. Unfortunately, there are probably several hundreds / thousands of others, mostly on an "IF true" basis, would do the same, so I (and most likely others are similarly lamenting): "I Wouldn't Know Where to Start"!

Think how the WC ignored many witness/evidence that didn't fit their scheme; even how Warren himself wouldn't let Dr. Humes, who had done the autopsy, review his own records and photos before preparing his testimony, and the anomalies in those photos and records. Consider Odio, Martino, (and about a hundred other Cuban exiles); Trafficante, Giancana, (and how many other mafia types); Billy Sol Estes, Factor, Files, statements; And Ferrie, De Mohrenscheildt, Kilgallen, Nagel, Mary Meyers involvements and their own demise, Magic Bullet, numerous Oswald impersonations and on and on ad nauseum. Some of these are more tangential than your list might allow, but the point is there are so many individual pieces that point to CT that is seems to me one would have to be a LN to even believe the LN Theory.

In any event, if this thread makes it through the test of time, I suspect it will collect enough notes to be the mother lode for researchers looking for a list of "bullets" (no pun intended :-)

[Tim Gratz]

Phil, all good points.

I am aiming (again no pun intended) for rather simple "bullets". any of which, standing alone, would demonstrate a conspiracy.

Some would indicate a conspiracy even if most if not all of the arguments of the LN are correct.

For instance, if LHO was the sole gunman, there could still be a conspiracy if, for instance, someone paid him, or, knowing the plot, assisted him in any way through any overt act. E.g., if Rosselli confessed to Attorney Wadden that he was part of a conspiracy to kill the president.

I would like to develop this thread so we have say fifty of these points.

Of course, as you probably know, Bugliosi claims in "Reclaiming History" that he has 56 reasons why LHO did it and acted alone. But many of his reasons only relate to his "proof" that Oswald was the sole shooter.

I understand that there are not-yet-released tapes of Carlos Marcello disclosing to someone he trusted of his involvement in the conspiraacy.

Now I know that proof of a preassassination association between LHO and JR is not CONCLUSIVE proof of a conspiracy but I think most would argue it is at least very persuasive evidence of a conspiracy.

I really cannot think of any single item that a LN advocate could cite that standing by itself would prove that LHO acted alone with no assistance from any other party.