Assassin's nest cartridge cases

[William Kelly]

I would like to find an original, clear copy of this memo, if it is available on line.

Jim Hargrove and Phil Hopley helped me find it before.

Thanks,

Does this say what I think it says?

BK

FBI

US Government Memo

Date: 12/2/63

To: Unreadable

From: ? H. Jovens

Subject : ASASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY

My memorandum of 11/2263, set out additional information relating to the sale and distribution of the Western manufactured 6.5 mm Manlicher-Carcano ammunition used in the assassination. That memorandum was written in response to Mr. Belmont's instructions that every effort be made to track the ammunition on the possibility that some of it may be traced into Oswald's hands.

The Springfield office has advised that they have obtained through contact at the Wastern Cartridge Corporation, East Alton, Illinois, copies of that Corporation's records relating to the manufacture of this ammunition. Western manufactured four million rounds of this ammunition for the United States Marine Corps during 1954.

Attached is a two-page copy of the records of Western relating to the complete manufacture of this order of assassination was authorized under Government contract of

[unreadable]

The interesting thing about this order is that it is for ammunition which does not fit and cannot be fired in any of the USMC weapons.

This gives rise to the obvious speculation that it is a contract for ammunition placed by the CIA with Western under USMC cover for concealment purpose.

ACTION: This information is being furnished Division 5 and 6 for whatever further investigative activity is deemed warranted.

[/size]

• Mr. Tolson
  
• Mr. Belmont
  
• Mr. Mohr
  
• Mr. DeLoach
  
• Mr Rosen
  
• Mrs. Sullivan
  
• Mr. Thompson
  

A few items which may (or may not) prove to be ultimately worthwhile.

1. The "contract" is a Department of the Army (DA) reference.

2. The letter references the USMC and it's lack of weapons, without any confirmation that it was in fact the USMC or whoever, that placed the order with Western Cartridge Company for the ammunition.

3. Somewhere within my boxes I have the additional information that the order which directed the manufacture of these bullets, remains a classified document which is not even scheduled to be reviewed for de-classification until the year 2025.

In fact, somewhere, I once had a letter in which US Senator David Boren, Chairman, Senate Intelligence Committee, was informed of this, as well as the problems which this secrecy creates in attempting to correlate the originally designated purchaser & source for these bullets, with LHO and exactly how he would have known that this excellent quality ammunition for the Carcano was available.

Lastly! As those who have been around for some time may recall, (and again posted for those who were not here), manufacture of the 6.5mm Carcano ammo by Westeren Cartridge Company was about as clandestine as "Pink Elephant in the Wal-Mart Parking Lot"!

Each box of ammo contained a slip of paper which clearly identified the manufacturer of the ammo as well as the DA Ordinance Code to which the ammo was manufactured.

Each round of the ammo, clearly has stamped on the base of the cartridge casing "WCC 6.5mm".

Both items of which no doubt have their specific reasonings, and which most certainly have nothing to do with "cover for concealment".

Thanks Tom,

If you can find those records that indicate that these documents are still sealed, we can list them among those items to be brought up during hearings on the JFK Act.

There's no dispute however, that the info in this particular doc is correct, and that the ammo casing found in the sniper's perch of TSBD were ordered by the US government DOD in 1954. Correct?

BK

[Accogli Claudio]

Thanks Tom,

If you can find those records that indicate that these documents are still sealed, we can list them among those items to be brought up during hearings on the JFK Act.

There's no dispute however, that the info in this particular doc is correct, and that the ammo casing found in the sniper's perch of TSBD were ordered by the US government DOD in 1954. Correct?

BK

Well, it must be noticed that most of the Carcano arrived in Us were brought with ammunitions too.

So, it is really an amazing coincidence LHO had (better: were found in Dallas) actually ammunitions producted in 1954, the year of the doc and of Guatemala.

But, I suggest to focus your research also on another point: the ammunition of WestCart were in a ''magazine'' with the inscription "SMI".

SMI= Societa' Metallurgica Italiana.

So, how some ammunition producted in Usa (probably for the Greek Army, there were some docs.. have to check my archive) come back to Usa (it was not legal, see Morano act) and were used with an italian ammo magazine?

[Thomas H. Purvis]

I would like to find an original, clear copy of this memo, if it is available on line.

Jim Hargrove and Phil Hopley helped me find it before.

Thanks,

Does this say what I think it says?

BK

FBI

US Government Memo

Date: 12/2/63

To: Unreadable

From: ? H. Jovens

Subject : ASASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY

My memorandum of 11/2263, set out additional information relating to the sale and distribution of the Western manufactured 6.5 mm Manlicher-Carcano ammunition used in the assassination. That memorandum was written in response to Mr. Belmont's instructions that every effort be made to track the ammunition on the possibility that some of it may be traced into Oswald's hands.

The Springfield office has advised that they have obtained through contact at the Wastern Cartridge Corporation, East Alton, Illinois, copies of that Corporation's records relating to the manufacture of this ammunition. Western manufactured four million rounds of this ammunition for the United States Marine Corps during 1954.

Attached is a two-page copy of the records of Western relating to the complete manufacture of this order of assassination was authorized under Government contract of

[unreadable]

The interesting thing about this order is that it is for ammunition which does not fit and cannot be fired in any of the USMC weapons.

This gives rise to the obvious speculation that it is a contract for ammunition placed by the CIA with Western under USMC cover for concealment purpose.

ACTION: This information is being furnished Division 5 and 6 for whatever further investigative activity is deemed warranted.

[/size]

• Mr. Tolson
  
• Mr. Belmont
  
• Mr. Mohr
  
• Mr. DeLoach
  
• Mr Rosen
  
• Mrs. Sullivan
  
• Mr. Thompson
  

A few items which may (or may not) prove to be ultimately worthwhile.

1. The "contract" is a Department of the Army (DA) reference.

2. The letter references the USMC and it's lack of weapons, without any confirmation that it was in fact the USMC or whoever, that placed the order with Western Cartridge Company for the ammunition.

3. Somewhere within my boxes I have the additional information that the order which directed the manufacture of these bullets, remains a classified document which is not even scheduled to be reviewed for de-classification until the year 2025.

In fact, somewhere, I once had a letter in which US Senator David Boren, Chairman, Senate Intelligence Committee, was informed of this, as well as the problems which this secrecy creates in attempting to correlate the originally designated purchaser & source for these bullets, with LHO and exactly how he would have known that this excellent quality ammunition for the Carcano was available.

Lastly! As those who have been around for some time may recall, (and again posted for those who were not here), manufacture of the 6.5mm Carcano ammo by Westeren Cartridge Company was about as clandestine as "Pink Elephant in the Wal-Mart Parking Lot"!

Each box of ammo contained a slip of paper which clearly identified the manufacturer of the ammo as well as the DA Ordinance Code to which the ammo was manufactured.

Each round of the ammo, clearly has stamped on the base of the cartridge casing "WCC 6.5mm".

Both items of which no doubt have their specific reasonings, and which most certainly have nothing to do with "cover for concealment".

Thanks Tom,

If you can find those records that indicate that these documents are still sealed, we can list them among those items to be brought up during hearings on the JFK Act.

There's no dispute however, that the info in this particular doc is correct, and that the ammo casing found in the sniper's perch of TSBD were ordered by the US government DOD in 1954. Correct?

BK

All that is truly known is that information which is contained within the FBI memo, for whatever it's worth.

Although I got my bullets from an "ammo collecter" who actually worked at WCC when the ammo was produced, and thereafter "pilfered" an original and unopened box of the rounds for his collection, all that he could recall was "early 50's".

There are a variety of dates which run from 1949 :

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carc...ry.html#1939box

WCC Western Cartridge Company East Alton, Illinois, USA US government contractor Early 1949

Winchester Repeating Arms, of the US, manufactured 6.5x52 Carcano under a CIA during the early 50's. The intended use is not clear, but varies from being supplemental production for the Italian Military, use during the Greek civil-war, anti-communist efforts in Albania, etc. These rounds found their way into the surplus market in the early 1960's. The rounds supposedly used by Lee Harvey Oswald to assassinate President John F. Kennedy were from this production.

The JFK Commerative Cartridge

The cartridges recovered with Lee Harvy Oswald's rifle were part of a batch made in 1949 by the Western Cartridge Company in East Alton Il. They were made for the government of Greece as part of US military aid during the Greek civil war. They were commonly avaible on the surplus market during the early 1960's. They were packed in typical american 20 round boxes of white cardboard.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

To the 1954 era, there is absolutely no confirmation as to which episode in history these bullets were actually made/produced for.

Truthfully, about all that one can state with certainty is that this ammo was produced under the standards of a Department of the US Army Ordnance Specification.

In event that they were paid for through the USMC, then this is of course an additional lead.

Whatever, the rounds would not have been produced, as marked and identified, for any "covert" operation.

Rather, it appears that they were intentionally produced and so marked as to indicate a "Red Flag" to someone, in order to fully convince that the US Government was fully backing some third world "Military Force".

Thus, this could run from Greece; Albania;, etc; , all the way to Guatemala, and even early support for Castro.

In that regards, one must correlate into the equation the wide availability of the Carcano Rifle, and exactly when it became massively available onto the maket.

Who authorized the production of these bullets; who paid for the rounds; and how they came to be mostly shipped out of country, only to return via Canada (from what little is reportedly known) would answer many questions relative to the Carcano as well as exactly why LHO chose this weapon above all others which were readily and cheaply available.

[Accogli Claudio]

why LHO chose this weapon above all others which were readily and cheaply available.

I am not sure LHO choose this weapon, the coupon order is for another kind of rifle, the Moschetto TS '91.

Anyway, reading your post.... it seems someone put the C2766 with such ammunitions in Dealey just to say: hey, do not investigate too much... or you can discover the gun smugglin over the world and the attemps to kill foreign leaders as well...

[Thomas H. Purvis]

why LHO chose this weapon above all others which were readily and cheaply available.

I am not sure LHO choose this weapon, the coupon order is for another kind of rifle, the Moschetto TS '91.

Anyway, reading your post.... it seems someone put the C2766 with such ammunitions in Dealey just to say: hey, do not investigate too much... or you can discover the gun smugglin over the world and the attemps to kill foreign leaders as well...

The issue as to what LHO "ordered" as opposed to what he actually recievied, as well as the problems associated with attempting to trace a Carcano by it's "Serial Number", have been pretty well discussed on this forum.

And, although few caught onto, and almost none pursued the statements, an acquaintance who has the thorough background in arms/weapons, inadvertedly discovered that Klein's Sporting Goods was owned by PEPSICO.

Since this was more or less accidently discovered, he had no knowledge as to the impact which such information would have on the intelligence community.

In the world of synonym's, "PEPSI" & "CIA" had much in common.

Thusly, in event that the claim of PEPSI ownership of Klein's is factual, (and I for one have no doubt as to the validity of this information and/or it's source), then this places the order of the Carcano from Klein's, as well as the usage of ammunition which was manufactured under a "hidden" contract, into another full realm of possibility, as well as clearly demonstrating that LHO knew things which few persons could have known.

As well as knowing exactly how to instigate the old "incoming, run for cover" routine!

[Accogli Claudio]

The issue as to what LHO "ordered" as opposed to what he actually recievied, as well as the problems associated with attempting to trace a Carcano by it's "Serial Number", have been pretty well discussed on this forum.

And, although few caught onto, and almost none pursued the statements, an acquaintance who has the thorough background in arms/weapons, inadvertedly discovered that Klein's Sporting Goods was owned by PEPSICO.

Since this was more or less accidently discovered, he had no knowledge as to the impact which such information would have on the intelligence community.

In the world of synonym's, "PEPSI" & "CIA" had much in common.

Thusly, in event that the claim of PEPSI ownership of Klein's is factual, (and I for one have no doubt as to the validity of this information and/or it's source), then this places the order of the Carcano from Klein's, as well as the usage of ammunition which was manufactured under a "hidden" contract, into another full realm of possibility, as well as clearly demonstrating that LHO knew things which few persons could have known.

As well as knowing exactly how to instigate the old "incoming, run for cover" routine!

Ehm, I know in this forum there are researchers that study this case in times when I "drink milk", and that some points of the investigation are "consolidated".

But there are some strange questions that come up reading these posts: ok, it was a conspiracy. They were so stupid to do the job using a weapon, a magazine, ammunitions, and also a controversial person like LHO that in some ways could discover a direct link to cia or more?

Why they choose a Carcano? This answer is not in the archive, still.

Edited September 6, 2007 by Accogli Claudio

[Thomas H. Purvis]

The issue as to what LHO "ordered" as opposed to what he actually recievied, as well as the problems associated with attempting to trace a Carcano by it's "Serial Number", have been pretty well discussed on this forum.

And, although few caught onto, and almost none pursued the statements, an acquaintance who has the thorough background in arms/weapons, inadvertedly discovered that Klein's Sporting Goods was owned by PEPSICO.

Since this was more or less accidently discovered, he had no knowledge as to the impact which such information would have on the intelligence community.

In the world of synonym's, "PEPSI" & "CIA" had much in common.

Thusly, in event that the claim of PEPSI ownership of Klein's is factual, (and I for one have no doubt as to the validity of this information and/or it's source), then this places the order of the Carcano from Klein's, as well as the usage of ammunition which was manufactured under a "hidden" contract, into another full realm of possibility, as well as clearly demonstrating that LHO knew things which few persons could have known.

As well as knowing exactly how to instigate the old "incoming, run for cover" routine!

Ehm, I know in this forum there are researchers that study this case in times when I "drink milk", and that some points of the investigation are "consolidated".

But there are some strange questions that come up reading these posts: ok, it was a conspiracy. They were so stupid to do the job using a weapon, a magazine, ammunitions, and also a controversial person like LHO that in some ways could discover a direct link to cia or more?

Why they choose a Carcano? This answer is not in the archive, still.

Why they choose a Carcano? This answer is not in the archive, still

And, until such time as there is a "second coming" then it is most unlikely that we will ever know the absolute answer to that question.

Until then, an answer which follows the logic would be the only potential for defining the specific reason.

Such as:

1. The weapon was sold through a CIA "Front" Company, the ammo was made for some form of covert operation.

Thus: Utilization of a weapon purchased through a CIA Front Company as well as ammunition made specifically for some covert operation, would immediately "point" the finger at the CIA and thus bring into the limelight their activities as well as point a finger of blame at them.

In that regards, many have questioned exactly why? LHO/the shooter left the weapon to be so easily found on the sixth floor of the TSDB.

In that scenario in which it was designed to point the finger at the CIA, leaving this weapon to be easily found and readily identified back to Klein's Sporting Goods, through the US Postal System, as well as payment with a Postal Money Order, would all seem to follow a pattern of insuring that the weapon was easily traced back to Klein's, and/or the CIA.

And, in this same scenario, one just may want to leave behind a few photographs of one actually holding the weapon, just in case the CIA decided to attempt to "cover'" their own tracks as relates to acquisition and possession of the rifle.

The actions of LHO are not the actions of some "LN" who merely got up on the wrong side of the bed on 11/22/63 and decided to shoot JFK.

His actions are those of someone who was operating under a thought out plan in which each step followed it's own logical reasoning.

Just as with the departure from the Paine household and renting a small room under an assumed name.

The actions of acquisition of the rifle, to include the shot taken at General Walker, and virtually every other aspect of LHO's manipulations, are indicative of a plan which, based on prior knowledge and events, was executed logically and step by step.

And, in each step along the way, LHO managed to manipulate the CIA; the FBI; the Fair Play for Cuba Committee; Anti-Castro elements; Pro-Castro elements; and just about anyone else (with the exception of his control element) into the resulting death of JFK.

So! In recognition that virtually every other aspect of LHO's actions followed some form of plan, then one must also assume that the acquisition and use of the Carcano as the tool of choice, also represented an element of the plan, other than merely being an inexpensive weapon.

So long as the purpose of the manufacture of the Carcano ammunition by Western Cartridge Company remains an "unknown", then an essential element of information remains missing.

As, the bullets were most certainly made for some purpose which included a considerable number of the actual weapons.

Several million rounds of Carcano bullets represents just a little more than the average rodent and/or deer hunter needs for a weekend fun time of shooting.

[Accogli Claudio]

Why they choose a Carcano? This answer is not in the archive, still

And, until such time as there is a "second coming" then it is most unlikely that we will ever know the absolute answer to that question.

Until then, an answer which follows the logic would be the only potential for defining the specific reason.

Such as:

1. The weapon was sold through a CIA "Front" Company, the ammo was made for some form of covert operation.

Thus: Utilization of a weapon purchased through a CIA Front Company as well as ammunition made specifically for some covert operation, would immediately "point" the finger at the CIA and thus bring into the limelight their activities as well as point a finger of blame at them.

In that regards, many have questioned exactly why? LHO/the shooter left the weapon to be so easily found on the sixth floor of the TSDB.

In that scenario in which it was designed to point the finger at the CIA, leaving this weapon to be easily found and readily identified back to Klein's Sporting Goods, through the US Postal System, as well as payment with a Postal Money Order, would all seem to follow a pattern of insuring that the weapon was easily traced back to Klein's, and/or the CIA.

And, in this same scenario, one just may want to leave behind a few photographs of one actually holding the weapon, just in case the CIA decided to attempt to "cover'" their own tracks as relates to acquisition and possession of the rifle.

The actions of LHO are not the actions of some "LN" who merely got up on the wrong side of the bed on 11/22/63 and decided to shoot JFK.

His actions are those of someone who was operating under a thought out plan in which each step followed it's own logical reasoning.

Just as with the departure from the Paine household and renting a small room under an assumed name.

The actions of acquisition of the rifle, to include the shot taken at General Walker, and virtually every other aspect of LHO's manipulations, are indicative of a plan which, based on prior knowledge and events, was executed logically and step by step.

And, in each step along the way, LHO managed to manipulate the CIA; the FBI; the Fair Play for Cuba Committee; Anti-Castro elements; Pro-Castro elements; and just about anyone else (with the exception of his control element) into the resulting death of JFK.

So! In recognition that virtually every other aspect of LHO's actions followed some form of plan, then one must also assume that the acquisition and use of the Carcano as the tool of choice, also represented an element of the plan, other than merely being an inexpensive weapon.

So long as the purpose of the manufacture of the Carcano ammunition by Western Cartridge Company remains an "unknown", then an essential element of information remains missing.

As, the bullets were most certainly made for some purpose which included a considerable number of the actual weapons.

Several million rounds of Carcano bullets represents just a little more than the average rodent and/or deer hunter needs for a weekend fun time of shooting.

Yes, I agree a lot of points.

In this view, one can think the carcano was a ''leaver'', like Larry H. provocatively suggested after the tests in Terni.

In other words: they choose a gun that - if deeply investigated - can make discover a lot of things, what today we can call "the family jewels".

So one should conclude that, yes, it is true, also Ruby had a role in the weapons smuggling and so on...

This "theory" reminded me something that happened in Italy many years ago.

There was a criminal group, La Banda della Magliana, that was allegedly linked to the Moro affaire (the prime minister kidnapped and killed in 1978 by BR).

Years later, it was early 90's, this group made a big bank assault, taking a lot of money with them.

These people left on the scene of the crime some objects. Ammo, papers, a lot of things all linked to the Moro affaire.

It was considered a leaver: "we know something, dont search us". Some people of the intelligence suggested it could be considerated also a message like: "ok, we did the job, or a part of it, now we take the money. dont investigate".

Backing on the carcano... Forsure it was a perfect gun for a conspiracy. In the same way it was the worse for a lone assassin.

It was old, its technology not well known in Us, his ammo from very different traffic (some made in 1954, some other not: the grains of the bullets found in Dealey are too much different one to other).

In 1963 a neutron analysis or other scentific approach (to determine also the ''story'' of the barrel of the gun) could be so superficial to give experts a big ''land'' of interpretation and mis-information (that, sic, continued also with Hsca panel).

Edited September 7, 2007 by Accogli Claudio

[Mark Knight]

Let us not forget that the WC investigation included a lot of information about the Empire Trading Company in Montreal...way too much information, IMHO, for a company that allegedly was "out of the loop" in the tangled web of stories on how a certain Mannlicher-Carcano got to Dallas. Funny that LHO's pistol came thru the hands of Empire on its way to Seaport Traders, yet the WC chose to concentrate on the Carcanos that Empire handled--allegedly guns with NO serial numbers. Funny also how this going concern in 1962 and 1963 was defunct in January 1964, just as the commission started asking questions.

But then, perhaps their reason to exist ceased after 12:30 pm on November 22nd, 1963.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Mark;

Actually, the direction would appear to have been:

1. Klein's (backed by CIA/PEPSI funds) is creating competetion with the good old American Free Enterprise system and the right to make lots of money off of selling guns.

2. Begin a campaign against Klein's in which one forces them into a Government Investigation being conducted against them.

3. If "we" (being those behind LHO) get to shoot Castro with the (a) Carcano, then we get to blame it on the CIA as not only did some Government entity have the bullets manufactured, but the rifle came from a CIA "Front" company as well.

4. If "we" (being those behind LHO) decide to shoot JFK, then we send the CIA into shock waves as JFK was shot with their bullets as well as one of their weapons, which supposedly came from one of their "Front" companies.

Either way, "Incoming, run for cover"!/ The CIA falls into the blame, must begin to hide information as well as defend itself, which to most, indicates some form of guilt.

Need one provide any other reasons as to why LHO chose the Carcano as the weapon of choice?

And, when one takes into consideration the animosity between the FBI/JEH and his loss of intelligence operations to the CIA, then it is of little wonder as to exactly how the FBI knew exactly who to call up and trace the weapon to with absolutely no problems.

Certainly did not take JEH & Company long to "point" the finger at Klein's!

Not certain that, even in this computer age, one could accomplish such actions so rapidly.

[Accogli Claudio]

I loose a bit myself:

the ammunitions came ALL from the production of 1954, SUPPOSED to be for Cia in the Fbi doc of 22/11/63???

it does not seem to me... they discover some ammo from Greece isnt it?

Klein's could be a front firm... but what about Adam Consolidated of New York?

It produced 'hat' I read somewhere, then went bankrupt and was re-founded. so it was an import-export company, not arm sellers.

Is that a front company?

If Adam is not a front company, than you have the C2766 traced since its birth in Italy..

more on Purvis speculations:

I agree again... but like to add: the alleged involvement of Cia-Fbi-Kgb in the case not necessarly come out from OUTSIDE these agencies.

One man in KGB - just to say - that planned the killing would have good reason, and facts, to create a ''leaver'' to their collegues in the agency not to investigate the omicide.

Edited September 9, 2007 by Accogli Claudio

[Gary Murr]

Bill,

It is to a Mr. Conrad and it is from R.H. Jevons.

James

Gee James, From 1:55 to 2:21 - that wasn't bad.

If it was a scavanger hunt you would have won.

Had to start a new card on those guys, you got a make on them?

BK

Gentlemen:

A minor point to be sure, but in truth Roy Jevons did not compose the memorandum in question. As examination of the stenographic notations in the bottom left hand corner indicates, the content of the memo was actually constructed by "JC" - SA Jay Cochran, night shift supervisor of the FBI lab. He dictated it to Miss Barabara Novotny, stenographer/secretary in the Physics and Chemistry section of the lab. Cochran shared office number 7410 with a number of fellow SA/lab employees, including Robert Frazier, Cortlandt Cunningham, and James Killion, to name but three. This practice [of a SA "underling" actually constructing a memorandum on behalf of a superior] was commonplace as examination of literally thousands of pages of FBI memoranda will reveal.

FWIW

Gary Murr

[William Kelly]

Bill,

It is to a Mr. Conrad and it is from R.H. Jevons.

James

Gee James, From 1:55 to 2:21 - that wasn't bad.

If it was a scavanger hunt you would have won.

Had to start a new card on those guys, you got a make on them?

BK

Gentlemen:

A minor point to be sure, but in truth Roy Jevons did not compose the memorandum in question. As examination of the stenographic notations in the bottom left hand corner indicates, the content of the memo was actually constructed by "JC" - SA Jay Cochran, night shift supervisor of the FBI lab. He dictated it to Miss Barabara Novotny, stenographer/secretary in the Physics and Chemistry section of the lab. Cochran shared office number 7410 with a number of fellow SA/lab employees, including Robert Frazier, Cortlandt Cunningham, and James Killion, to name but three. This practice [of a SA "underling" actually constructing a memorandum on behalf of a superior] was commonplace as examination of literally thousands of pages of FBI memoranda will reveal.

FWIW

Gary Murr

Thank you Gary,

Welcome to the discussion.

BK

[Tim Gratz]

BK, in my neck of the woods, it is a scavenger hunt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scavenger

[William Kelly]

I would like to find an original, clear copy of this memo, if it is available on line.

Jim Hargrove and Phil Hopley helped me find it before.

Thanks,

Does this say what I think it says?

BK

FBI

US Government Memo

Date: 12/2/63

To: Unreadable

From: ? H. Jovens

Subject : ASASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY

My memorandum of 11/2263, set out additional information relating to the sale and distribution of the Western manufactured 6.5 mm Manlicher-Carcano ammunition used in the assassination. That memorandum was written in response to Mr. Belmont's instructions that every effort be made to track the ammunition on the possibility that some of it may be traced into Oswald's hands.

The Springfield office has advised that they have obtained through contact at the Wastern Cartridge Corporation, East Alton, Illinois, copies of that Corporation's records relating to the manufacture of this ammunition. Western manufactured four million rounds of this ammunition for the United States Marine Corps during 1954.

Attached is a two-page copy of the records of Western relating to the complete manufacture of this order of assassination was authorized under Government contract of

[unreadable]

The interesting thing about this order is that it is for ammunition which does not fit and cannot be fired in any of the USMC weapons.

This gives rise to the obvious speculation that it is a contract for ammunition placed by the CIA with Western under USMC cover for concealment purpose.

ACTION: This information is being furnished Division 5 and 6 for whatever further investigative activity is deemed warranted.

[/size]

• Mr. Tolson
• Mr. Belmont
• Mr. Mohr
• Mr. DeLoach
• Mr Rosen
• Mrs. Sullivan
• Mr. Thompson

A few items which may (or may not) prove to be ultimately worthwhile.

1. The "contract" is a Department of the Army (DA) reference.

2. The letter references the USMC and it's lack of weapons, without any confirmation that it was in fact the USMC or whoever, that placed the order with Western Cartridge Company for the ammunition.

3. Somewhere within my boxes I have the additional information that the order which directed the manufacture of these bullets, remains a classified document which is not even scheduled to be reviewed for de-classification until the year 2025.

In fact, somewhere, I once had a letter in which US Senator David Boren, Chairman, Senate Intelligence Committee, was informed of this, as well as the problems which this secrecy creates in attempting to correlate the originally designated purchaser & source for these bullets, with LHO and exactly how he would have known that this excellent quality ammunition for the Carcano was available.

Lastly! As those who have been around for some time may recall, (and again posted for those who were not here), manufacture of the 6.5mm Carcano ammo by Westeren Cartridge Company was about as clandestine as "Pink Elephant in the Wal-Mart Parking Lot"!

Each box of ammo contained a slip of paper which clearly identified the manufacturer of the ammo as well as the DA Ordinance Code to which the ammo was manufactured.

Each round of the ammo, clearly has stamped on the base of the cartridge casing "WCC 6.5mm".

Both items of which no doubt have their specific reasonings, and which most certainly have nothing to do with "cover for concealment".

Thanks Tom,

If you can find those records that indicate that these documents are still sealed, we can list them among those items to be brought up during hearings on the JFK Act.

There's no dispute however, that the info in this particular doc is correct, and that the ammo casing found in the sniper's perch of TSBD were ordered by the US government DOD in 1954. Correct?

BK

It's Deja Vu all over again.