The Mongoose Deception

[William Kelly]

Bill wrote:

And I appologize to all the Bozos out there who were insulted by my associating them with TG.

Bill, your apparent need to insult (first Dr. Greer, then me) is simply an indication of the level of your intelligence.

AND--you either do not know how to spell or you are too lazy to check your posts for spelling errors.

Yes, Tim, my spelling is autrocious, and I'm not smart enough to be a lawyer, but Dr. Greer, whose book I will now most certainly read, conjured up the image of Bozo the clown when I read Dr. Greer's passage of the Kennedy assassination beings solved with the assistance of the Always-Faithful Cadre of Street-Smart Former Rodeo Cowboys, who I am now giving the ancronym AFCSSFC.

Now I'm thinking Greer's book, which includes MONGOOSE in the title, like BRA's ZENITH SECRET, includes the cover of JM/WAVE, maybe there is something to this book.

Remember how Three Days of the CONDOR - (the book is Seven Days), the CIA job of the Robert Redford protagonist is to read and write reports on fictional books to see if anything operational can be gleaned from them? And how EHH wrote similar fictional spy novels to confuse the Ruskies?

And Tim, my purpose wasn't to insult you or the good Dr. Greer, but calling me out for my intelligence and spelling, that's hitting below the belt.

Now I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that there might be something to your book, Dr. Greer's book after all, but I'm reserving final judgement until I actually read the book and learn more about the AFCSSFC, a real Cadre.

BK

[Tim Gratz]

Bill, I apologize if I hit you "below the belt" with my comment on your typing.

I just took offense that you would label a doctor who has also written several (apparently) successful crime novels a "bozo". As Mr. Drago pointed out, I think we can learn things from fictionalized accounts of the assassination.

Since Dr. Greer is a pathologist, I think it would be wonderful, and perhaps very helpful to JFK research, if he would be willing to review and comment on some of the medical issues in the case. It would probably be difficult to persuade him to do so if he learned he had already been called a "bozo" by one of the leading lights of the assassination research community. Do you see, then, why I was upset with your "Bozo" comment?

[William Kelly]

Bill, I apologize if I hit you "below the belt" with my comment on your typing.

I just took offense that you would label a doctor who has also written several (apparently) successful crime novels a "bozo". As Mr. Drago pointed out, I think we can learn things from fictionalized accounts of the assassination.

Since Dr. Greer is a pathologist, I think it would be wonderful, and perhaps very helpful to JFK research, if he would be willing to review and comment on some of the medical issues in the case. It would probably be difficult to persuade him to do so if he learned he had already been called a "bozo" by one of the leading lights of the assassination research community. Do you see, then, why I was upset with your "Bozo" comment?

I would read his book before inviting him to discuss it. Maybe there is something to it.

And as others have pointed out, Bozo is very estemed in some quarters.

BK

[Tim Gratz]

Bill, of course I have not yet read the book yet either.

What I find most interesting is a pathologist who is interested in the case. I think he could be a good resource.

[Guest David Guyatt]

Charles,

I'm with you entirely on the uses and power of a skilled and knowledgeable writer (in this case fiction writing), often very artfully, to intrude things of a meaningful nature into the deeper levels of man. Many a true word has been hidden in fiction.

The whole key to this is good fiction writing. A well developed plot, a realistic cast of characters-protagonists and the sense that a deep mystery is to be intelligently unravelled before long.

I’m also with Bill, when it comes to the blurb offered for review. It was positively awful and heaved worse than a technicolor yawn. I wouldn't pay a cent to read the book in question, based on that blurb alone.

But good fiction writing, well, that’s something to be admired and is fairly rare these days, from what I can see.

I was also greatly interested in what you said thus:

Quote:

Make no mistake: The killers of Kennedy fully understand the unique powers of art to set fire to our imaginations and, by extension, manipulate the masses over the long haul.

Unquote

Are you referring to the dead king myth, or something quite similar? I've always thought it might be a fascinating possible aspect as a sort of hidden backdrop to the whole affair. Would you care to expound further please.

David

[Charles Drago]

For whatever they're worth, David, I'm glad to add a few thoughts.

Cinematic storyteller George Lucas owes his unquantifiable material success to his decision to work with Joseph Campbell during the earliest stages of the Star Wars franchise's development.

The deeper one's understanding of universal myth and archetype, the more developed one's abilities to translate that understanding into mythic storylines that in turn may be dressed in all manner of superficial garb, the more likely one is to capture the imaginations of those seated round the campfire -- regardless of their cultural origins.

(Phil Woods, the greatest living jazz saxophonist [sonny Rollins is beyond comparison] and a good friend, put it this way: "Play 'September Song' beautifully, and you can make a Pygmy cry.")

Whether we're considering the "dead king myth," as you reference it, or the hero's quest, or any other primal storyline that has evolved and otherwise grown, in terms of complexity and velocity toward the godhead, in lockstep with the development of the human brain, the manipulations of these tales by gifted artists cannot be overestimated for their powers both to enlighten and control mankind.

As I've referenced in previous posts, my friend, mentor, and occasional writing partner George Michael Evica was first to understand the JFK assassination plot as a dramatic construct (no time now for details, but it's all there). I agree, and I'd further argue that the durability of the Lone Nut absurdity may be attributed in equal measure to the brilliantly poured mythic/archetypal foundations of its storyline and the imprimatur of the mother-state/storyteller.

Okay. Get a grip, Charles.

Oliver Stone was spot-on when he described JFK as a "counter-myth" to the Warren Report. It's really quite simple.

So art, and art alone, will propel us with sufficient power to reach our common destinations: truth and justice for John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

But wretched prose cannot be endured.

Best,

Charles

Edited September 24, 2007 by Charles Drago

[Guest David Guyatt]

For whatever they're worth, David, I'm glad to add a few thoughts.

Cinematic storyteller George Lucas owes his unquantifiable material success to his decision to work with Joseph Campbell during the earliest stages of the Star Wars franchise's development.

The deeper one's understanding of universal myth and archetype, the more developed one's abilities to translate that understanding into mythic storylines that in turn may be dressed in all manner of superficial garb, the more likely one is to capture the imaginations of those seated round the campfire -- regardless of their cultural origins.

(Phil Woods, the greatest living jazz saxophonist [sonny Rollins is beyond comparison] and a good friend, put it this way: "Play 'September Song' beautifully, and you can make a Pygmy cry.")

Whether we're considering the "dead king myth," as you reference it, or the hero's quest, or any other primal storyline that has evolved and otherwise grown, in terms of complexity and velocity toward the godhead, in lockstep with the development of the human brain, the manipulations of these tales by gifted artists cannot be overestimated for their powers both to enlighten and control mankind.

As I've referenced in previous posts, my friend, mentor, and occasional writing partner George Michael Evica was first to understand the JFK assassination plot as a dramatic construct (no time now for details, but it's all there). I agree, and I'd further argue that the durability of the Lone Nut absurdity may be attributed in equal measure to the brilliantly poured mythic/archetypal foundations of its storyline and the imprimatur of the mother-state/storyteller.

Okay. Get a grip, Charles.

Oliver Stone was spot-on when he described JFK as a "counter-myth" to the Warren Report. It's really quite simple.

So art, and art alone, will propel us with sufficient power to reach our common destinations: truth and justice for John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

But wretched prose cannot be endured.

Best,

Charles

Thank you for that, Charles. It was more than interesting. I agree with you rt hinking that it is requisite for the true artist to be thoroughly informed about the Archetypes.

Incidentally, on friend Stone, are you aware that he made a rather thorough investigation into the story of Santa Romana et al?

David

[Charles Drago]

Incidentally, on friend Stone, are you aware that he made a rather thorough investigation into the story of Santa Romana et al?

David

I am not, sir.

But I have a most urgent interest in this matter insofar as it overlaps with a major creative project on which I'm hard at work. Can you be more forthcoming -- with the knowledge that I'm not in a position to reciprocate (at least not for a while)?

Feel free to PM me.

Thanks.

Charles

[Michael Hogan]

In an article entitled Reclaiming or Reinventing History: That is the Question, the author of The Mongoose Deception, Robert Greer gives some of his views on Bugliosi, fact and fiction, Abraham Bolden, and conspiracy. An excerpt:

First question: Who really killed JFK -- was it Oswald or someone else? Second question: What about the black Secret Service agent Abraham Bolden, a real-life person who claims even to this day that he was aware of an attempt on JFK’s life in Chicago weeks prior to Dallas? Is that hogwash too? Bolden grabbed my interest early on in my research for Mongoose because, like me, he is African American. But unlike me, he was jailed after claiming he had information about a planned hit on JFK in Chicago prior to Dallas. To this day, Bolden’s full story remains untold. It is his historical presence that triggered a good measure of my interest in writing The Mongoose Deception. For the record, Bolden doesn’t appear as a character in Mongoose, and for the record, Mr. Bugliosi gives him rather short shrift, relegating him to end-note treatment in Reclaiming History. (Incidentally, the end note is referenced in the book, but I couldn’t bring it up in the end-note and source-note diskette provided with Reclaiming History.)

After stumbling across Bolden’s claim that there was a planned attempt on Kennedy’s life in Chicago, I read Lamar Waldron’s book Ultimate Sacrifice in which Waldron suggests -- with very good source documentation, I might add -- that not only was there an attempt on Kennedy’s life in Chicago but that there was also an attempt planned for Tampa, Florida, weeks before Dallas.

I integrated this history into Mongoose, but there is essentially no Abraham Bolden, no Chicago, and no Tampa in Reclaiming History -- just Dallas! It seems a little strange for a scholarly treatise to skip over such important events, but since I (simply a country doctor) am not one to argue with a scholar, I moved on.

More to the fact, I am also no conspiracy buff, and I really don’t know for certain if Oswald killed JFK, whether Kennedy was killed by the person I claim to be the real assassin in The Mongoose Deception, or if JFK was killed by the late James Brown, Popeye the Sailor Man, or the pope. What I do know is that end notes that can’t be found in a purported scholarly work don’t make a whole lot of sense.

Full article: http://www.articlesbase.com/news-and-socie...ion-218367.html

[John Simkin]

There is one very good reason why people who know who killed JFK resort to fiction. For example, David Atlee Phillips wrote fiction. When he died of cancer on 7th July, 1988 he left behind an unpublished manuscript. The novel is about a CIA officer who lived in Mexico City. In the novel the character states: "I was one of those officers who handled Lee Harvey Oswald... We gave him the mission of killing Fidel Castro in Cuba... I don't know why he killed Kennedy. But I do know he used precisely the plan we had devised against Castro. Thus the CIA did not anticipate the president's assassination, but it was responsible for it. I share that guilt." Now this is a similar story that Carl Jenkins, whose job it was to train CIA contract workers to kill Castro, told Gene Wheaton.

See this thread for the full story.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5485

Then there is the case of Gary Hart. In September, 1975, a sub-committee made up of Gary Hart and Richard Schweiker was asked to review the performance of the intelligence agencies in the original John F. Kennedy assassination investigation. Hart and Schweiker became very concerned about what they found. On 1st May, 1976, Hart said: "I don't think you can see the things I have seen and sit on it."

When the Final Report of the Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations was published in 1976, Hart joined Walter Mondale and Philip Hart to publish an appendix to the report. The three men pointed out that "important portions of the Report had been excised or security grounds". However, they believed that the CIA had "used the classification stamp not for security, but to censor material that would be embarrassing, inconvenient, or likely to provoke an adverse public reaction to CIA activities."

Hart called for a new Senate Committee to look into the events surrounding the assassination of JFK. He said it was necessary to take a closer look at Lee Harvey Oswald and his relationship with the FBI and the CIA. In an interview he gave to the Denver Post Hart said the questions that needed answering included: "Who Oswald really was - who did he know? What affiliation did he have in the Cuban network? Was his public identification with the left-wing a cover for a connection with the anti-Castro right-wing?"

In the interview Hart went on to state that he believed Oswald was probably operating as a double-agent. He thought this was one of the reasons why the FBI and CIA had made "a conscious decision to withhold evidence from the Warren Commission."

In 1985 Hart and William S. Cohen, another member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, published the novel Double Man. According to Bob Woodward: "This is an expertly crafted thriller that is full of many uncomfortable plausibilities. Though clearly labeled fiction, it dances knowledgeably with many old and new ghosts, including the CIA, the KGB, the Kennedy assassination, terrorism, and a range of state secrets. The Double Man has to be taken, minimally, as a grim warning about the intelligence services in our own country and elsewhere."

You can find out more about Hart on this thread. You can also see another example of Tim Gratz's strategy that he employs on this forum.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4648

[Tim Gratz]

John wrote:

There is one very good reason why people who know who killed JFK resort to fiction.

John, you believe that former Sen. Gary Hart KNOWS who killed JFK?

[Guest David Guyatt]

Synchronicity is a curious thing and what briefly follows may simply be a distraction (in which case apologies).

But.

Someone I know who claimed to be Gary Hart's "foreign policy adviser", possesses a remarkably good working knowledge on the subject of WWII gold and other valuable plunder. By remarkably good, I simply mean remarkably good. The gentleman in question, on learning that a key figure in one curious transaction had died, arranged for someone to attend the funeral to check that the deceased actually was comfy cold inside the coffin/cask... before it was interred/was sent to Valhalla.

Who would go to that trouble?

David