MC Mystery Man not a mystery

[William O'Neil]

Duh, I certainly should have caught that - although for some strange reason I keep mentally switching

Mann and Scott...always have.

Now the question for me would be, is this communication so early that they think they are going

to be able to cover up the fact that Oswald was in MC....which would be pretty silly given all the

interagency memos from a month or so earlier.

Which brings me back to two options:

1. The photos being sent up are not of Oswald but of somebody else known to both parties....raising

the question of what that would be a priority at this point in time and implying two separate sets of

photos were going north that evening, Oswald and this guy.

2. He thinks the photos are of Oswald and is going on record that Oswald was well known to both

of them...which very well could be true given all the earlier flap about Oswald in MC and his

Kositikov contact...and once again showing Phillips was a xxxx about Oswald not even being

on their radar screen.

...but then the photos are not of Oswald....or does this mean that real Oswald photos did go up

and later the mystery man was substituted for some reason because their was something about

the Oswald photos that had to be covered up?

Or are there even more options? Larry

Larry , I agree... Is this guy important to these people for unrelated reasons, or because he has mistakenly been labled as 'Oswald' ? Do Scott and King even know what LHO really looks like at this stage?

[Steve Thomas]

Daniel,

But to get more back on-topic, I think it's of interest that Scott is saying to his superior "a certain person who is known to you." That does seem to be suggestive of a potential double-agent type.........the kind of person who would be referred to very carefully in internal discussions, and about which only "upper management" would have "all the facts"?

Which is why I opened this thread in the first place.

For 45 years, we've been told that this man's identity is unknown; but that's not the case. His identity WAS known, and maybe still is by a handful of people.

I found it astounding that King was not interviewed by the Rockefeller or Church Committees (at least I didn't find any testimony on the Mary Ferrell pages.

I don't know if he was interviewed by the HSCA or not.

Steve Thomas

[Larry Hancock]

Daniel, I think that is a very key question - a decade or so ago, or if we belived statements by people like Phillips

we might assume they are just confused because Oswald had never really been "on the radar screen" as Phillips

states and in fact the MC CIA folks really were not that interested in him.

However, since the releases and work of the 90's we know that is an outright lie. MC was very concerned about

him, they were "hot" about him according to Tarasof even before they got the first translations of his

telephone calls from the Cuban embassy. And they were ballistic about his contact with Kostikov. Memos went

to a host of people about that; and Kostikov himself was the target of ongoing surveillance by MC CIA.

So I'm not buying that they didn't know what Oswald looked like nor am I buying they had no surveillance photos

of the real Oswald. We now have a memo from Phillips to the FBI saying they also have photos of everyone

entering the Cuban embassy during the period in question.

What I'm thinking is that the memo in question here refers to photos of Oswald and that both parties are well

aware of who he was and strange goings on around him (perhaps only known fully to CI/SIG) and they are

dancing around that fact.

And at some point the photos became way to embarassing and somebody substituted other ones for some

reason...possibly just to support the position that Oswald was not a person of interest to the CIA and FBI

immediately prior to the assassination. I can see it now...who us, no we didn't even have photos of the

guy - look at our stupid mistake - no need to ask us about him.

-- Larry

Duh, I certainly should have caught that - although for some strange reason I keep mentally switching

Mann and Scott...always have.

Now the question for me would be, is this communication so early that they think they are going

to be able to cover up the fact that Oswald was in MC....which would be pretty silly given all the

interagency memos from a month or so earlier.

Which brings me back to two options:

1. The photos being sent up are not of Oswald but of somebody else known to both parties....raising

the question of what that would be a priority at this point in time and implying two separate sets of

photos were going north that evening, Oswald and this guy.

2. He thinks the photos are of Oswald and is going on record that Oswald was well known to both

of them...which very well could be true given all the earlier flap about Oswald in MC and his

Kositikov contact...and once again showing Phillips was a xxxx about Oswald not even being

on their radar screen.

...but then the photos are not of Oswald....or does this mean that real Oswald photos did go up

and later the mystery man was substituted for some reason because their was something about

the Oswald photos that had to be covered up?

Or are there even more options? Larry

Larry , I agree... Is this guy important to these people for unrelated reasons, or because he has mistakenly been labled as 'Oswald' ? Do Scott and King even know what LHO really looks like at this stage?

[Charles Drago]

Or was it all a message: Now you know that we know that you know ... ?

[Steve Thomas]

Larry,

What I'm thinking is that the memo in question here refers to photos of Oswald and that both parties are well

aware of who he was and strange goings on around him (perhaps only known fully to CI/SIG) and they are

dancing around that fact.

I think the whole reference to Lee Harvey Oswald is a smoke screen.

Nowhere in the body of that memo is there any reference to LHO.

The typing that says, "these photos were determined to not be of Lee Harvey Oswald" were added later, and on a different typewriter.

Based on what is in the memo, we don't even know if there is a connection to Kennedy's assassination at all, other than Mann was concerned enough about this individual to want to have copies of his picture hand delivered to Dallas.

Why Dallas? We don't know. Did the CIA have something special going on in Dallas, TX in late 1963?

The memo does not say to whom the Legal Attache was supposed to deliver the photos.

I don't think this memo has anything to do with Oswald, and somebody interjected that as a way of clouding the issue.

Steve Thomas

[Robert Howard]

I found this on maryferrell.org recently, if the image posts in an unorthodox manner, it is because it was that way on their website.....and I couldn't correct it.....

[Thomas Graves]

Or was it all a message: Now you know that we know that you know ... ?

_________________________

Gosh Charles, I don't know....

--Thomas

_________________________

Edited September 27, 2007 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Most interesting (and important). Thanks, James!

Do you by chance have a current address for Mr. Sague?

Tim,

I have no current information regarding Sague.

[...]

__________________________

Hi James,

Do you know where Sague used to live?

Thanks,

--Thomas

__________________________

[James Richards]

Thomas,

He did live in Miami. Curiously, there was an association of some sort with a guy named Larry DeJoseph who in my opinion is one of the more under investigated characters in this whole can of worms.

DeJoseph also connects to Frank Sturgis and David Ferrie. Mmm.

James

[Thomas Graves]

Richard Helms also knew who this man was.

I am having trouble posting anything at the moment but I have a document which suggests Helms was certainly in the loop regarding the operations involving this guy.

James

___________________________

James,

Are you able to post that document now?

Thanks,

--Thomas

___________________________

[James Richards]

Richard Helms also knew who this man was.

I am having trouble posting anything at the moment but I have a document which suggests Helms was certainly in the loop regarding the operations involving this guy.

James

___________________________

James,

Are you able to post that document now?

Thanks,

--Thomas

___________________________

Thomas,

Sorry, no. I'll send it to you via email.

James

[Thomas Graves]

Thomas,

He did live in Miami. Curiously, there was an association of some sort with a guy named Larry DeJoseph who in my opinion is one of the more under investigated characters in this whole can of worms.

DeJoseph also connects to Frank Sturgis and David Ferrie. Mmm.

James

___________________________

James,

Wow! Mmm is right...

--Thomas

___________________________

[Larry Hancock]

Steve, in the case that you might think I'm trying to cloud the issue, my reasoning is simply that on November

22 you have a memo from the head of the CIA staff in MC to the CIA guy in charge of West Hemisphere. Now if

this message went out prior to the assassination I could see the raw coincidence of sending up some special photos

of an individual known to both men. That would indeed be a strange coincidence but certainly might have nothing

to do with Oswald...or the assassination.

If it went out after the assassination I would have to think there would be nothing on anyone's mind except

matters relating to the assassination...and we do know of only one set of photos turned over to the FBI that

day for transit to back to the U.S. on that date.

I noted a few options in my earlier message but unless you can verify that the message was sent pre-assassination

I don't see how you could write off the option that it has something to do with Oswald and/or the assassination?

-- Larry

Larry,

What I'm thinking is that the memo in question here refers to photos of Oswald and that both parties are well

aware of who he was and strange goings on around him (perhaps only known fully to CI/SIG) and they are

dancing around that fact.

I think the whole reference to Lee Harvey Oswald is a smoke screen.

Nowhere in the body of that memo is there any reference to LHO.

The typing that says, "these photos were determined to not be of Lee Harvey Oswald" were added later, and on a different typewriter.

Based on what is in the memo, we don't even know if there is a connection to Kennedy's assassination at all, other than Mann was concerned enough about this individual to want to have copies of his picture hand delivered to Dallas.

Why Dallas? We don't know. Did the CIA have something special going on in Dallas, TX in late 1963?

The memo does not say to whom the Legal Attache was supposed to deliver the photos.

I don't think this memo has anything to do with Oswald, and somebody interjected that as a way of clouding the issue.

Steve Thomas

[Tim Gratz]

I have posted this before but per Gerry Hemming Sague's nationality was Slavic and he was recruited for the CIA in Germany in early 1950s by William K. Harvey.

[Steve Thomas]

James,

Richard Helms also knew who this man was.

I am having trouble posting anything at the moment but I have a document which suggests Helms was certainly in the loop regarding the operations involving this guy.

James

Could you also send it to me?

sthomas@ohio.lib.in.us

If you'd like, I could try and post it on the Forum.

Steve Thomas