In Praise -- and Defense -- of Jack White

[Bill Miller]

I have a suggestion for you highlight which of Evan’s comments you think are most indicative that he set Jack up and say why post this to the "moderator complaints" thread at the PC forum.

I have already posted my complaints about Evan Burton being a moderator and linked the Apollo hoax thread where his Jack and Duane bashing takes place .

If the forum owners don't see that as a reason to remove him as a moderator or reinstate Jacks' posting abilities , then there is nothing I can do about it .

I'm sure Jack will appreciate your extended condolences .

I don't agree that people who never knew someone should necessarily feel obligated to be expressing condolences .. I mean what's next - showing up at funerals for the free food afterwards! I think we all feel something when a serviceman or woman dies defending our country. How many of you offer your condolences to all those other families who have lost their loved ones? Jack's family is in mourning and let them have their privacy ... wish them well if you must, but that's about all one can do. I felt bad when Tim Carroll died even though we had never met, and while I didn't write his wife ... I said a prayer for Tim. Which holds more weight - posting condolences on a forum or saying a private prayer for the fallen hero ??? I think that we sometimes don't keep things in their proper perspective and this matter may be one such instance.

And as much as I agree that Jack should have a voice on the forum ... do I need to post a few responses he gave where he basically said that he would post as he pleased even if it was in violation to the forum guidelines and rules. Jack is still free to post as often as he likes - isn't he? The only difference now will be that curse words will be removed, along with any remarks calling other members a xxxx. I for one feel that the rules are a bit too much at times, but if one really wants to - they can get their message across in other ways and have it sting all the same.

Bill Miller

Edited October 4, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Myra Bronstein]

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...mp;#entry121189

[John Simkin]

No , no one has answered the question as to why the "log in as invisible" feature was removed from my , Jack's and your log in page ... I don't know if this has been done to any other members .

I don't know if anyone in charge read my post on the political conspiracies thread complaining about the behavior and motives of Evan Burton , so I have copied it and posted it here .

Jack as been targeted to be shut down on this forum , IMO .... and I believe that the post comments made by Burton on the Apollo Hoax forum is proof of that.

As Andy has explained elsewhere we have had problems with the forum software recently. We have been a target of hackers for sometime and we have been trying to improve the security of the forum. If you have had log in problems it has had nothing at all to do with Evan or any other moderator. They do not have that kind of power. Only Andy and myself have the ability to cause you problems logging on. If we are angry with you all we have to do is to put you on moderation. Something that I have been protecting you from for sometime. However, if you continue with your unwarrented attacks on our moderators, that is where you will end up.

[Bill Miller]

As Andy has explained elsewhere we have had problems with the forum software recently. We have been a target of hackers for sometime and we have been trying to improve the security of the forum.

I recently had a problem with the forum software working for me as well. I wrote John - who then asked that I forward the message on to Andy. For days when I could only get the forum to come up periodically and when I tried to go from page to page or make a post once I finally got there ... the loading would run forever and usually leave me with a blank page and the word "DONE" in the lower left hand corner of the screen. Sometimes it took me over two dozen times (no joke!) to back up and hit the send button again in hopes of getting the forum to give me the next page.

Today I had found that the router was failing. It wasn't picking up the information from my modem like it is supposed to. I was then and still am somewhat embarrassed that I even bothered John and Andy about this for in my message to them ... I was saying that I had a similar type of glitch the last time the forum when down from being hacked. I guess if I can be thankful of one thing ... I didn't accuse them of tampering with my ability to use the forum for then I really would have felt like a darn fool upon finding out what the real cause pf my problem was. In the end it was no CIA plot - no fault of the moderators - nor John and/or Andy having nothing better to do than to waste their time messing with me, it was just the result of equipment failure. Once I got the proper equipment that I needed ... the forum has been working great for me now. Yes, a couple of times I had to sign in again, but it is not a problem at this time.

Ockham's razor also Occam's razor n. A rule in science and philosophy stating that entities should not be multiplied needlessly.

The lesson learned - things are not always as they seem.

Bill Miller

Edited October 4, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Tim Gratz]

It was no CIA plot

Never be too quick to absolve the CIA!!

[Len Colby]

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...mp;#entry121189

Technical issues are one of the biggest contributing factors in Jack's ongoing forum frustrations, if not the biggest factor. For a variety of reasons mostly beyond the admin's control, the software sometimes acts flakey and makes it harder for some people to post and/or upload pix and/or even stay logged in. Whereas some people are not put off by technical flukes, Jack seems to have little patience for them. So he will quickly ask for help, but in a way that lacks tact, and also in a way that can provoke the ire of an admin.

He doesn't "quickly ask for help, but in a way that lacks tact" he accuses the mods in general and Evan in particular of being the culprits. He made such accusations several times before and was shown to be wrong

If we had an admin that was extra patient and kind and willing to give a little personal assistance to one of the most important, revered, and adored JFK researchers of all time, then the technical problems could probably be quickly identified and resolved, and Jack could soon be up and running and--true to form--finding something else to grumble about.

That’s exactly what happened, how many warnings should he have been allowed to ignore before you were satisfied the administrators here were “extra patient” with him? Did you look at the relevant threads?

Instead we have admin Andy, who rarely misses an opportunity to humiliate and belittle, and takes particular relish in insulting Jack. He intentionally goads him. And Jack is easy to goad; we all know what the result will be because he is not exactly Mr. Zen. Here's a recent example; but then there's always a recent example:

Andy>"Though I believe he is quite elderly dealing with Jack White is like dealing with a small child."

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...t=0&start=0

That was after Jack was put on moderation. Truth be told though obviously there is "love lost" between the two of them Andy rarely coments on this part of the forum and thus passes up numerous "opportunity to humiliate and belittle, and takes particular relish in insulting Jack". In any case it’s irrelevant John put him on moderation.

At which time all the trolls (you know who you are)--who target Jack because of his stature and productivity and courage--smell blood and pile on Jack and provoke him to the nuclear level. But they don't seem to get nailed for provoking the guy. Instead the guy gets nailed for being provoked, for being a human, admittedly a hot blooded human but hey, we all have our limits.

I haven’t really followed what has been happening on the JFK forum recently* but that is not what happens at the PC forum. Jack’s studies (not the man himself) are “targeted” because they are junk. Unless you consider pointing out the numerous errors in his “work” ‘provocation’ he critics are normally polite perhaps you’d be willing to point out some example of what you speak. Sure we’ve been less than polite at time but 90% or more of the time we are merely pointing out errors in his work. Jack as even you admit is often less than polite himself, claiming we are CIA agent or stupid etc. He labeled one of my critiques of his work a “meaningless mass of crap” I had not insulted him, In any case this is all irrelevant because Jack was NOT put on moderation due to his replies to his critics but rather for insisting on blaming Evan for his technical problems even after John told him the moderator had nothing to do with it.

* The same was true on the Z- film threads here

[Duane Daman]

I have a suggestion for you highlight which of Evan’s comments you think are most indicative that he set Jack up and say why post this to the "moderator complaints" thread at the PC forum.

I have already posted my complaints about Evan Burton being a moderator and linked the Apollo hoax thread where his Jack and Duane bashing takes place .

If the forum owners don't see that as a reason to remove him as a moderator or reinstate Jacks' posting abilities , then there is nothing I can do about it .

I'm sure Jack will appreciate your extended condolences .

I don't agree that people who never knew someone should necessarily feel obligated to be expressing condolences .. I mean what's next - showing up at funerals for the free food afterwards! I think we all feel something when a serviceman or woman dies defending our country. How many of you offer your condolences to all those other families who have lost their loved ones? Jack's family is in mourning and let them have their privacy ... wish them well if you must, but that's about all one can do. I felt bad when Tim Carroll died even though we had never met, and while I didn't write his wife ... I said a prayer for Tim. Which holds more weight - posting condolences on a forum or saying a private prayer for the fallen hero ??? I think that we sometimes don't keep things in their proper perspective and this matter may be one such instance.

And as much as I agree that Jack should have a voice on the forum ... do I need to post a few responses he gave where he basically said that he would post as he pleased even if it was in violation to the forum guidelines and rules. Jack is still free to post as often as he likes - isn't he? The only difference now will be that curse words will be removed, along with any remarks calling other members a xxxx. I for one feel that the rules are a bit too much at times, but if one really wants to - they can get their message across in other ways and have it sting all the same.

Bill Miller

Jack asked me to please post this for him in defense of Miller's accusations against him .

"Though I have been banned from posting unless censored,

I can still read messages posted. I want to give a

correction for erroneous statements that I was banned

for "using profanity". I NEVER USE PROFANITY unless I hit

my thumb with a hammer.

Definition number one, in the dictionary...

"pro·fane (pr-fn) adj.

1. Marked by contempt or irreverence for what is sacred."

I repeat...I have never on this forum invoked the name of

any deity.

I admit to typing, when appropriate, some everyday vulgarities

I hardly ever use in conversation...such as:

****...the excrement of an animal (horse, bull, etc.)

****..same as above

*******...the body part of an animal which excretes solid waste

sphincter...same as above

I apologize to anyone offended by these common everyday words.

But you will never catch me using profanity, as is being falsely

claimed.

I was banished for complaining that Duane Daman had messages

deleted by the moderator, and that he could not log in. THE SAME

THING HAPPENED TO ME. I believe Duane, and not those who

falsely accuse me.

Thanks.

Jack "

*edited to delete any offensive words .

Edited October 5, 2007 by Duane Daman

[Duke Lane]

[Duane Daman]

If you're so bored , then go read something else .. Or better yet , go fly a kite .

[Bill Miller]

I admit to typing, when appropriate, some everyday vulgarities

I hardly ever use in conversation...such as:

$h#t...the excrement of an animal (horse, bull, etc.)

a$$hol@...the body part of an animal which excretes solid waste

Jack, you just did what you are in part probably being moderated for. Geesh ... if we can use these words, then I would have said one of them to you for breaking the rules once again and bringing this problem down upon yourself. I love calling a spade a spade so-to-speak, but it was stated why we can't talk like this. I'd rather see you around too, but you have become your worst enemy and I do not understand why you don't see this.

Bill

Edited October 4, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Mike Tribe]

I have been a member of this forum for a number of years and used to

contribute to it regularly. After all, it's the "Education Forum", and I

am an educator. Over the past few months, however, I've done so less and

less. I check in now and then and encounter little gems like John S's

recent posting about Karl Brandt and the Nuremberg Trials, but more and

more, I find that there is little to interest me, and little, indeed,

that can even loosely be seen as being "educational". Mr White is quite

correct in claiming that the forum has been taken over -- but not by

imaginary "agents provocateurs". It's been taken over by people with

little or no interest in education but rather a rather morbid obsession

with conspiracy theories. I'm quite happy to believe that there was

something a bit odd about the investigation into JFK's assassination.

Perhaps there was even a conspiracy. But the conspiracies which have

been alluded to here over the past couple of years included:

No one ever went to the Moon

Darwin was a hoax

Hurricane Katerina was caused by a secret government program to divert

bad weather to black areas Various 1960s pop singers were assassinated

in a darkly hidden government conspiracy Someone is spraying deadly

chemicals over parts of the USA The tsunami was in fact caused by an

atomic device planted on the seabed by Mossad agents

911 was clearly a CIA/FBI plot

The recent terror attack in Scotland was the work of a secret government

agency etc, etc

One "researcher" commented with regard to the last "conspiracy" that the

fact that the government said Islamic terrorists were responsible was

evidence that they weren't because governments always lie...

Look through the new posts any day, and you'll see that the vast

majority refer to this sort of thing. Clearly this is absorbingly

interesting to some, but few "educators" who come across the forum via a

search engine or whatever will be greatly impressed...

Certainly, they wouldn't be impressed by the sort of silly name-calling

that's been happening recently. I would tend to agree with John's

suggestion that some of the people posting and constantly starting

polemical new threads have rather lost their marbles. Not really

surprising, though, considering the paranoia constantly to be noted in

their regular postings.

So, I think the forum would be greatly improved if Mr Drago's Pied Piper

campaign met with success and huge numbers of conspiracy theorists upped

and left for some congenial promised land where they can insult each

other to their hearts' content. If they want to stay, fine. As John has

made plain, he's spent a lot of time and money setting the forum up and

maintaining it despite fairly constant criticism by people like Mr

White. It's his bat and his ball. If he wants to let the miscreants

continue to post, then so be it. If he wants to put them on moderation,

fine. If he wants to chuck them out, that's entirely up to him (and

Andy, of course).

[Duke Lane]

[Charles Drago]

My Dear Mr. Tribe,

Thanks so much for paying attention.

Thanks for your splendid misinterpretation of my methodology and intentions vis a vis support of Jack White.

Thanks for characterizing my work with a degree of accuracy unexperienced since the Israelis identified the USS Liberty as an Egyptian man of war.

Thanks for acknowledging what I'm sure you know to be the insignificant oddities within the larger JFK assassination investigation.

Thanks for demonstrating the courage and vision required to accept the possibility of conspiracy in the death of JFK.

Your students are fortunate indeed to be educated by so refined, fair-minded, and disciplined a pedagogue.

What is left to say? Perhaps the immortal words of that great philosopher Billy Bats apply.

Now go home and get your shine box!

Respectfully,

Charles Drago

[Myra Bronstein]

My Dear Mr. Tribe,

Thanks so much for paying attention.

Thanks for your splendid misinterpretation of my methodology and intentions vis a vis support of Jack White.

Thanks for characterizing my work with a degree of accuracy unexperienced since the Israelis identified the USS Liberty as an Egyptian man of war.

Thanks for acknowledging what I'm sure you know to be the insignificant oddities within the larger JFK assassination investigation.

Thanks for demonstrating the courage and vision required to accept the possibility of conspiracy in the death of JFK.

Your students are fortunate indeed to be educated by so refined, fair-minded, and disciplined a pedagogue.

What is left to say? Perhaps the immortal words of that great philosopher Billy Bats apply.

Now go home and get your shine box!

Respectfully,

Charles Drago

I genuflect in your direction Charles.

[Duke Lane]

My Dear Mr. Tribe,

Thanks so much for paying attention.

Thanks for your splendid misinterpretation of my methodology and intentions vis a vis support of Jack White.

Thanks for characterizing my work with a degree of accuracy unexperienced since the Israelis identified the USS Liberty as an Egyptian man of war.

Thanks for acknowledging what I'm sure you know to be the insignificant oddities within the larger JFK assassination investigation.

Thanks for demonstrating the courage and vision required to accept the possibility of conspiracy in the death of JFK.

Your students are fortunate indeed to be educated by so refined, fair-minded, and disciplined a pedagogue.

What is left to say? Perhaps the immortal words of that great philosopher Billy Bats apply.

Now go home and get your shine box!

Respectfully,

Charles Drago

I genuflect in your direction Charles.

The unfortunate thing about this entire discussion is that it has, actually, turned into something of a "religious" debate, you against me, us against them.

Most amazingly, this thread started over a technical issue, Jack's being accidentally logged off by the system - as has happened to me and probably most of us one time or another - and his misunderstanding of it.

Then it - and John Simkin, et al. - turned into "part of the great conspiracy" based on a system glitch. Ho-hum.

Houston, we seem to have a problem. Meet us in the studio.

Above all, this is Simkin's party; none of us has an unalienable right to be here, research or diatribes or education or ad hominem or anything else considered.

So, if you have a problem, get over it or get lost. alt.jfk.conspiracy is looking for people just like you; join them if you wish. If not, contribute what you will, and leave your whining at home. This site is not sponsored by PBS or Uncle Sam, but in the UK where "inalienable rights" might even be considered something of a slap in the face by its unruly cousins across the pond!

Behave yourselves like the guests you are - smoke in the right rooms, don't spit on the floors, don't start fights, play nice in the sandbox together - or at least don't feel slighted when you shat on our host's kitchen table and he didn't like it and asked you to leave.

In sum, grow up and play by the rules, or find somewhere else to make your own up.

Now can we end this silly clutter?