Thomas H. Purvis Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 First off, a short review of the problem, along with Ken's answer: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspir...bb80d1d95ca2d58 >> Ken Rahn > A few questions: > 1. The Connally wrist fragment has I believe 8.1 PPM of Aluminum, yet > CE 399 has 0.000 PPM of Aluminum - "None Detected". This would seem > to indicate that CE 399 was made in a metal melt that had no Aluminum > present, while the wrist fragment came from a bullet made from a melt > that contained Aluminum. How can we reasonably say that the wrist > fragment came from that CE 399? I offer you the same advice I offered to Ben Holmes just now. Read Guinn's testimony to the HSCA and his accompanying report, and you will understand the NAA of bullet lead much better. Al has virtualy no tracer power in lead, and so cannot be used to conclude anything. Guinn just included its concentrations for completeness, which may have been a mistake because it has thrown well-intentioned people like you off the track. > 2. CE 399 and the wrist fragment also show a huge variation in Copper > PPM - 994 vs. 58. There are also large differences in Sodium and > Chlorine. Don't these facts also point to this fragment NOT coming > from the CE 399 bullet? If you look at Guinn's full record for Cu, you will see that it is very erratic. It is not terribly helpful in bullet lead. My comments for Na and Cl are the same as for Al above. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now! I most certainly would have thought that a "shooter" would have known the answer to this huge enigma, in that bullets normally have four component parts. 1. The projectile/bullet 2. The propellant/powder 3. The Casing 4. The Primer/Cap -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORI...UNS/GUNGSR.html The major primer elements are lead (Pb), barium (Ba), or antimony (Sb). Usually, all three are present. Less common elements include aluminum (Al), sulfur (S), tin (Sn), calcium (Ca), potassium (K), chlorine (Cl), or silicon (Si). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.alliantpowder.com/beginner/beginner_reloading.htm Primer: A small, self-contained metalic ignition cap at the center of the base of the ammunition case. When struck by the firing pin, the primer combusts, sending sparks through the flashhole of the case, and ignites the powder charge. In centerfire cartridges, primers are cylinder-shaped components composed of ignition chemicals, a cup and an anvil. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 First off, a short review of the problem, along with Ken's answer: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspir...bb80d1d95ca2d58 >> Ken Rahn > A few questions: > 1. The Connally wrist fragment has I believe 8.1 PPM of Aluminum, yet > CE 399 has 0.000 PPM of Aluminum - "None Detected". This would seem > to indicate that CE 399 was made in a metal melt that had no Aluminum > present, while the wrist fragment came from a bullet made from a melt > that contained Aluminum. How can we reasonably say that the wrist > fragment came from that CE 399? I offer you the same advice I offered to Ben Holmes just now. Read Guinn's testimony to the HSCA and his accompanying report, and you will understand the NAA of bullet lead much better. Al has virtualy no tracer power in lead, and so cannot be used to conclude anything. Guinn just included its concentrations for completeness, which may have been a mistake because it has thrown well-intentioned people like you off the track. > 2. CE 399 and the wrist fragment also show a huge variation in Copper > PPM - 994 vs. 58. There are also large differences in Sodium and > Chlorine. Don't these facts also point to this fragment NOT coming > from the CE 399 bullet? If you look at Guinn's full record for Cu, you will see that it is very erratic. It is not terribly helpful in bullet lead. My comments for Na and Cl are the same as for Al above. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now! I most certainly would have thought that a "shooter" would have known the answer to this huge enigma, in that bullets normally have four component parts. 1. The projectile/bullet 2. The propellant/powder 3. The Casing 4. The Primer/Cap -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORI...UNS/GUNGSR.html The major primer elements are lead (Pb), barium (Ba), or antimony (Sb). Usually, all three are present. Less common elements include aluminum (Al), sulfur (S), tin (Sn), calcium (Ca), potassium (K), chlorine (Cl), or silicon (Si). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.alliantpowder.com/beginner/beginner_reloading.htm Primer: A small, self-contained metalic ignition cap at the center of the base of the ammunition case. When struck by the firing pin, the primer combusts, sending sparks through the flashhole of the case, and ignites the powder charge. In centerfire cartridges, primers are cylinder-shaped components composed of ignition chemicals, a cup and an anvil. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again, for those who are attempting to unravel the Spectrographic confusion, the following may be of some assistance in explaining how aluminum ultimately ended up on the lead sample tested. http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm APPENDIX C BACKGROUND DATA ON MANNLICHER CARCANO AMMUNITION "The primer cup was made of" "and it's main components were"----- "7% aluminum powder" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All of which would serve to indicate that that fragment of lead which was tested and revealed the aluminum was the 4.5mm width/oval section of lead which is exposed at the base of the bullet and which portion of lead would receive residue from the cartridge's primer as well as propellant ignition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Drago Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) Purvis and Rahn. Garbage in, garbage out. Charles Edited January 11, 2008 by Charles Drago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Purvis and Rahn.Garbage in, garbage out. Charles Still jealous that you have never personally conducted any factual research I see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 First off, a short review of the problem, along with Ken's answer: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspir...bb80d1d95ca2d58 >> Ken Rahn > A few questions: > 1. The Connally wrist fragment has I believe 8.1 PPM of Aluminum, yet > CE 399 has 0.000 PPM of Aluminum - "None Detected". This would seem > to indicate that CE 399 was made in a metal melt that had no Aluminum > present, while the wrist fragment came from a bullet made from a melt > that contained Aluminum. How can we reasonably say that the wrist > fragment came from that CE 399? I offer you the same advice I offered to Ben Holmes just now. Read Guinn's testimony to the HSCA and his accompanying report, and you will understand the NAA of bullet lead much better. Al has virtualy no tracer power in lead, and so cannot be used to conclude anything. Guinn just included its concentrations for completeness, which may have been a mistake because it has thrown well-intentioned people like you off the track. > 2. CE 399 and the wrist fragment also show a huge variation in Copper > PPM - 994 vs. 58. There are also large differences in Sodium and > Chlorine. Don't these facts also point to this fragment NOT coming > from the CE 399 bullet? If you look at Guinn's full record for Cu, you will see that it is very erratic. It is not terribly helpful in bullet lead. My comments for Na and Cl are the same as for Al above. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now! I most certainly would have thought that a "shooter" would have known the answer to this huge enigma, in that bullets normally have four component parts. 1. The projectile/bullet 2. The propellant/powder 3. The Casing 4. The Primer/Cap -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORI...UNS/GUNGSR.html The major primer elements are lead (Pb), barium (Ba), or antimony (Sb). Usually, all three are present. Less common elements include aluminum (Al), sulfur (S), tin (Sn), calcium (Ca), potassium (K), chlorine (Cl), or silicon (Si). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.alliantpowder.com/beginner/beginner_reloading.htm Primer: A small, self-contained metalic ignition cap at the center of the base of the ammunition case. When struck by the firing pin, the primer combusts, sending sparks through the flashhole of the case, and ignites the powder charge. In centerfire cartridges, primers are cylinder-shaped components composed of ignition chemicals, a cup and an anvil. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again, for those who are attempting to unravel the Spectrographic confusion, the following may be of some assistance in explaining how aluminum ultimately ended up on the lead sample tested. http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm APPENDIX C BACKGROUND DATA ON MANNLICHER CARCANO AMMUNITION "The primer cup was made of" "and it's main components were"----- "7% aluminum powder" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All of which would serve to indicate that that fragment of lead which was tested and revealed the aluminum was the 4.5mm width/oval section of lead which is exposed at the base of the bullet and which portion of lead would receive residue from the cartridge's primer as well as propellant ignition. Which ultimately, should lead one to question the disappearance of the lead fragment from CE840 which was "cone-shaped" with a flat base that measures approximately 4.5mm in diameter, and which fragment had elongated scratch markings along it's long axis. And, which fragment was found in the left rear floorboard of the Presidential Lilmo and weighed in at 0.9 grain when FBI Agent Robert Frazier weighed it and placed it in the category as "Poss C1" (possibly from C1/aka CE399), and which fragment FBI Agent William Sullivan removed from the FBI ballistics laboratory, never to be seen (or at least recognized) again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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