Black Propaganda Ops

[Charles Drago]

1. Enlarge Oswald's legend as a die-hard Communist.

2. Provide a "Castro was behind it" snipe hunt that would run for 16,038 days (if we can mercifully end it here and now).

Of course they didn't "intend for Castro to be removed." They had put the bastard in power!

CIA had a perfect track record of taking out every leader they ever decided to take out throughout the '50s. I'm sick to puking at hearing about the "OooooOOOOOOooooooooo, CIA plots to kill Castro." CIA never tried to take out Castro. If they had, he would have been taken out. Period.

It's the same reason the Bay of Pigs "failed." Failed, hell! It never was organized to take Castro out at all.

Ashton

Seems we've been on the same pages for quite a while.

(By the way, the term is "snipe[r] hunt.")

For the overwhelming majority of students of the JFK case in particular and deep politics in general, breadth of knowledge is vastly overvalued and tragically under-represented in comparison to depth of understanding.

It is one thing to be able to cite chapter and verse on the "histories" of CIA anti-castro efforts, the Bay of Pigs, and other agency "failures."

It is quite another to summon the requisite insight and creativity to understand them to be perfect failures.

So too the perfect failure of America's current Iraq policy. (In case anyone still seriously argues that, at this distant point in time, the JFK case is nothing more than a ripping yarn.)

I assure you that in the Fertile Crescent (no, I'm not referring to a segment of Jenna Bush's anatomy), all is proceding according to plan.

Charles

[Michael Hogan]

(By the way, the term is "snipe[r] hunt.")

I'm presuming Charles was being facetious, not pedantic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snipe_hunt

[Charles Drago]

I was shooting -- pardon the pun -- for obtuse.

[Paul Rigby]

For the overwhelming majority of students of the JFK case in particular and deep politics in general, breadth of knowledge is vastly overvalued and tragically under-represented in comparison to depth of understanding.

It is one thing to be able to cite chapter and verse on the "histories" of CIA anti-castro efforts, the Bay of Pigs, and other agency "failures."

It is quite another to summon the requisite insight and creativity to understand them to be perfect failures.

Arthur Schopenhauer:

"Students and learned men of every kind and every age go as a rule in search of information, not insight. They make it a point of honour to have information about everything: it does not occur to them that the information is merely a means towards insight and possesses little or no value in itself."

[Jack White]

For Ashton and BK,

I would benefit greatly from your respective takes on the assassination sponsors' purposes in constructing the LHO-Fidel links.

Presumably you've had a chance to read my own view that the highest level of conspirators never intended for Castro to be removed, etc. etc. etc.

By definition, you would be weighing in on another of my pet constructions (FYI endorsed by G. M. Evica; I'm not alone out here): the three-tiered conspiracy structure of sponsors, facilitators, and mechanics, with the middle level factionalized and compartmentalized.

Surely you both have better uses for your time and energies. So if and when the spirit moves ...

Charles

I responded to this posting immediately after it appeared yesterday. At the time Charles' message

was last on the thread. Nearly two days later my message still has not appeared. It is unfair that

moderators can hold up or delete postings in this manner. I spent a quarter hour composing the

message. There was nothing controversial about it. I was not given any notice nor reason for

the deletion. I think the board administrators should look into such as this.

Jack

[Jack White]

For Ashton and BK,

I would benefit greatly from your respective takes on the assassination sponsors' purposes in constructing the LHO-Fidel links.

Presumably you've had a chance to read my own view that the highest level of conspirators never intended for Castro to be removed, etc. etc. etc.

By definition, you would be weighing in on another of my pet constructions (FYI endorsed by G. M. Evica; I'm not alone out here): the three-tiered conspiracy structure of sponsors, facilitators, and mechanics, with the middle level factionalized and compartmentalized.

Surely you both have better uses for your time and energies. So if and when the spirit moves ...

Charles

I responded to this posting immediately after it appeared yesterday. At the time Charles' message

was last on the thread. Nearly two days later my message still has not appeared. It is unfair that

moderators can hold up or delete postings in this manner. I spent a quarter hour composing the

message. There was nothing controversial about it. I was not given any notice nor reason for

the deletion. I think the board administrators should look into such as this.

Jack

The count is now up to SEVEN on MODERATED POSTS of mine that have never appeared.

Apparently the system does not work and NOBODY CARES. Today I did hear from Antti, who

said he would look into it.

Jack

[Tim Gratz]

Peter, there are such things as real enemies who are really, really evil, who must be stopped. It is the height of naivete not to recognize this.

With regard to "them facists" there is an interesting quote from a M Niemoller. Perhaps you have heard it?

"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." - M. Niemoller

In the twentieth century the forces of evil killed as many as 100,000,000 innocent men, women and children. The blood they shed was real.

There are more than "minor differences" between our society and the tyranny of Fidel Castro. Ask the hundreds of thousands of Cubans who have risked their lives to escape to the United States.

I cannot believe the dream world in which you live. It is utterly divorded from reality.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[William Kelly]

I wrote a lengthy and non-controversial message in this thread,

but apparently "moderators" have deep-sixed it. What a crock.

Jack

Is this true? Jack's post has been blocked?

I'm interested in what he has to say and would like to know what's going on?

Bill Kelly

[William Kelly]

If Bradley Ayers account in The Zenith Secret is correct, he supplies coorboration that Julio Fernandez was a Maritime Commando team leader at JMWAVE, just as Clare Luce Booth said he was, and wrote about in the 1962 issue of Life Magazine. - BK

According to Glaser's report of the interview, this is basically what Luce told her:

1. Luce said that after the failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion, her friend, William Pawley, persuaded her to help sponsor a fleet of motorboats for a group of anti-Castro Cubans who, Pawley envisioned, would be Cuban "Flying Tigers," flying in and out of Cuba on intelligence-gathering missions. Pawley had helped start Gen. Claire Chennault's original Flying Tigers in World War II. Luce said she agreed to sponsor one boat and its three-man crew. She said she met with this Cuban boat crew about three times in New York and, in 1962, published a story about them in Life magazine. (50)
   
2. Following the missile crisis in October 1962, Luce said that the Kennedy administration clamped down on exile activities against Cuba, and the Pawley-sponsored boat raids were discontinued. Luce said she never saw her "young Cubans," as she called them, again.(51)
   
3. Then, on the night of Kennedy's assassination, Luce said she received a call from New Orleans from one of the boat crew Cubans. Luce told Glaser she would call him Julio Fernandez. She said the Cuban told her he called because he wanted to tell her about some information he had concerning the President's killer, Lee Harvey Oswald.(52)
   
4. Luce told Glaser that, according to "Julio Fernandez," Oswald had approached the anti-Castro group to which Fernandez belonged and offered his services as a potential Castro assassin. The Cubans, however, did not trust Oswald, suspected he was really a Communist, and decided to keep tabs on him. They eventually penetrated Oswald's Communist "cell" and tape recorded his talks, including his bragging that he could shoot anyone, even the Secretary of the Navy.(53)
   
5. Then suddenly, Luce said Fernandez told her, Oswald came into some money, went to Mexico City and finally to Dallas. Luce said Fernandez told her he still had the tape recordings of Oswald, as well as photographs of Oswald and samples of handbills Oswald had distributed on the streets of New Orleans. Fernandez, she said, asked her what he should do.(54)
   
6. Luce said she advised him to catact the FBI immediately. She then told Glaser that she did not think about the story again until the Garrison investigation hit the Headlines in 1967. Luce said she then contacted the Cuban who had called her. He told her his group had followed her instructions and turned their material over to the FBI. But, he said, they were advised to "keep their mouths shut" until further contact. Further contact was never made, he said.(55)
   
7. Luce said that Fernandez then told her that one of the members of his group had since been suddenly deported and that another had been murdered. He himself, he said, wanted nothing further to do with the Kennedy assassination.(56)
   
8. After Luce told her this story, Vera Glaser immediately went to Senator Schweiker and told him about the alleged Oswald encounter.(57) Intrigued, Schweiker contacted Luce directly and asked her for information about the Cuban who had called her (58) As a result, Schweiker sent a staff investigator in search of "Julio Fernandez," No such individual was ever found.(59)
   
9. ...........
   
10. Their first report of Oswald's contact with the DRE in New Orleans came from the group's headquarters in Miami. This information was released to national news organizations, the CIA, and the FBI shortly after the identification of Oswald as Kennedy's assassin. The evidence indicates that the Luce allegations, although related to certain facts, cannot be substantiated in the absence of corroboration by other individuals.
    Submitted by:
    GAETON J. FONZI,
    Investigator. Elizabeth J. Palmer,
    Researcher.
    

[Jack White]

Bill Kelly wrote, but I was blocked from quoting and replying, so I copied his

message:

QUOTE

QUOTE(Jack White @ Oct 20 2007, 06:16 AM)

I wrote a lengthy and non-controversial message in this thread,

but apparently "moderators" have deep-sixed it. What a crock.

Jack

Is this true? Jack's post has been blocked?

I'm interested in what he has to say and would like to know what's going on?

Bill Kelly

--------------------

Yes, Bill...by my count, seven messages I posted have never been

posted. Several of them were in this thread.

The first was a reply to Charles Drago in which I laid out my theory

of the organization of the assassination plot. It disappeared. I complained

but that reply also disappeared. etc.

I have apparently been placed on permanent moderation, and postings

are deleted at the whim of moderators. Several of the deletions were

in the Political Conspiracies forum, where Apollo postings are routinely

deep sixed.

Thanks for your interest. I may redraft my reply to Charles and send

it to someone else to post for me. This whole deal is abominable.

Truth is the victim.

Jack

[William Kelly]

Bill Kelly wrote, but I was blocked from quoting and replying, so I copied his

message:

QUOTE

QUOTE(Jack White @ Oct 20 2007, 06:16 AM)

I wrote a lengthy and non-controversial message in this thread,

but apparently "moderators" have deep-sixed it. What a crock.

Jack

Is this true? Jack's post has been blocked?

I'm interested in what he has to say and would like to know what's going on?

Bill Kelly

--------------------

Yes, Bill...by my count, seven messages I posted have never been

posted. Several of them were in this thread.

The first was a reply to Charles Drago in which I laid out my theory

of the organization of the assassination plot. It disappeared. I complained

but that reply also disappeared. etc.

I have apparently been placed on permanent moderation, and postings

are deleted at the whim of moderators. Several of the deletions were

in the Political Conspiracies forum, where Apollo postings are routinely

deep sixed.

Thanks for your interest. I may redraft my reply to Charles and send

it to someone else to post for me. This whole deal is abominable.

Truth is the victim.

Jack

Jack,

Are you sure that your post was not timed out?? I have made maybe one or two lengthy posts that, when I pressed "add reply" to submit them, resulted in me only seeing a white screen.

I don't know of any deleted posts.

Also, I don't know if anyone saw, but Duane's posts were on an older page, and Evan found them (or some of them) and approved them.

If a reply is made to an older topic by a moderated member, let's say, on page 4, it will remain on page 4 and we may not see it. I usually just check the first two pages on the forums.

Please let us know if you want to reply to an older topic.

Kathy

Jack,

I am interested in what you had to say, and am dissapointed your posts are not up.

I just made a lengthly reply to John B. regarding Nate Weyl that didn't register, and I'm not sure if I pushed the wrong button or not.

I can't imagine moderators waiting around for you to post and then killing it.

They can't be that organized.

BK

[Jack White]

Bill Kelly wrote, but I was blocked from quoting and replying, so I copied his

message:

QUOTE

QUOTE(Jack White @ Oct 20 2007, 06:16 AM)

I wrote a lengthy and non-controversial message in this thread,

but apparently "moderators" have deep-sixed it. What a crock.

Jack

Is this true? Jack's post has been blocked?

I'm interested in what he has to say and would like to know what's going on?

Bill Kelly

--------------------

Yes, Bill...by my count, seven messages I posted have never been

posted. Several of them were in this thread.

The first was a reply to Charles Drago in which I laid out my theory

of the organization of the assassination plot. It disappeared. I complained

but that reply also disappeared. etc.

I have apparently been placed on permanent moderation, and postings

are deleted at the whim of moderators. Several of the deletions were

in the Political Conspiracies forum, where Apollo postings are routinely

deep sixed.

Thanks for your interest. I may redraft my reply to Charles and send

it to someone else to post for me. This whole deal is abominable.

Truth is the victim.

Jack

Jack,

Are you sure that your post was not timed out?? I have made maybe one or two lengthy posts that, when I pressed "add reply" to submit them, resulted in me only seeing a white screen.

I don't know of any deleted posts.

Also, I don't know if anyone saw, but Duane's posts were on an older page, and Evan found them (or some of them) and approved them.

If a reply is made to an older topic by a moderated member, let's say, on page 4, it will remain on page 4 and we may not see it. I usually just check the first two pages on the forums.

Please let us know if you want to reply to an older topic.

Kathy

I do not understand what is going on. What do you mean "timed out"? I do not log on until I read a

message I want to reply to. Then I log on, reply, and log off. How could that cause a TIME OUT?

I do not understand. Several times I have tried to post a message as described, and the forum

AUTOMATICALLY LOGS ME OUT and the message is lost. I know of seven postings which have

disappeared completely. Most of the postings were NON-CONTROVERSIAL IN ANY WAY...just

someone's way of harrassing me. This system is lousy. It appears that someone is trying to make

Duane and me look bad. Why?

Thanks for allowing this posting to appear.

Jack

[Jack White]

Jack,

Bless your heart, no one is trying to make you look bad!

Sometimes, and I don't know why, when I would try to post, (I would be looking down at my keyboard to type), and when I look up after the "add reply", there's no message!! Other times, when I click on "view new posts", there's a note that appears that says the operation(or something like that) timed out. It includes a key that says"try again." I usually wind up going back to Windows and clicking on Internet to get back here(This is my home page.)

I know I have read that alot of people write posts on their notepad, and then cut and paste them to the reply box.

Kathy

Thanks for replying to my message, Kathy. But you simply are not

hearing what I am saying. Your answer is not responsive to my

message. Seven postings, by my count, have disappeared without

explanation or warning. I would like an explanation. This is not

something I did, but something some "moderator" has done. I am

not making this up! And I need no lessons on how to post a message.

I have been doing this for fifteen years and can recognize when somebody

is messing around.

Thanks.

Jack

[Charles Drago]

For Ashton and BK,

I would benefit greatly from your respective takes on the assassination sponsors' purposes in constructing the LHO-Fidel links.

Presumably you've had a chance to read my own view that the highest level of conspirators never intended for Castro to be removed, etc. etc. etc.

By definition, you would be weighing in on another of my pet constructions (FYI endorsed by G. M. Evica; I'm not alone out here): the three-tiered conspiracy structure of sponsors, facilitators, and mechanics, with the middle level factionalized and compartmentalized.

Surely you both have better uses for your time and energies. So if and when the spirit moves ...

Charles

I responded to this posting immediately after it appeared yesterday. At the time Charles' message

was last on the thread. Nearly two days later my message still has not appeared. It is unfair that

moderators can hold up or delete postings in this manner. I spent a quarter hour composing the

message. There was nothing controversial about it. I was not given any notice nor reason for

the deletion. I think the board administrators should look into such as this.

Jack

Jack,

Believe me, I would have responded immediately to your post had it been available for review.

Thanks for taking the time, and please know that I look forward to reading your views at the earliest possible time.

Charles

[Ashton Gray]

Seven postings, by my count, have disappeared without

explanation or warning. I would like an explanation. This is not something I did, but something some "moderator" has done.

Jack, I certainly understand that there is something going on affecting your ability to post and to view certain pages of the forum, as you have posted in this thread and in the thread about the throat shot that I recently started. While I'm concerned that it get resolved, there is a forum section specifically set up to handle traffic about such issues:

Forum Information, Development and Communication

The continuity of the threads in this and the other forums would be best served if the traffic on forum technical and moderation issues was properly placed there—and if the moderators moved such traffic where it belongs.

You also always can e-mail me anything you're having difficulty posting.

Ashton