I Hate Disinformation!

[Tim Gratz]

In the paperback version of"Crossfire" Marrs states on page 331:

"[Deputy roger] Craig also pointed out to Warren Commission attorneys that he had learned that Mrs. Ruth Paine, with whom Oswald's wife Marina, indeed owned a light green Nash Rambler station wagon."

Has it been conclusively determined that she did not own such a vehicle?

By the way, I of course agree there was a Rambler station wagon that left DP right after the assassination, carrying either LHO or someone who looked very much like Oswald.

Finally, I am aware of no evidence establishing a familial link between Deputy Roger Craig and Idaho Senator Larry Craig.

Edited October 9, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[William Kelly]

In the paperback version of"Crossfire" Marrs states on page 331:

"[Deputy roger] Craig also pointed out to Warren Commission attorneys that he had learned that Mrs. Ruth Paine, with whom Oswald's wife Marina, indeed owned a light green Nash Rambler station wagon."

Has it been conclusively determined that she did not own such a vehicle?

By the way, I of course agree there was a Rambler station wagon that left DP right after the assassination, carrying either LHO or someone who looked very much like Oswald.

Finally, I am aware of no evidence establishing a familial link between Deputy Roger Craig and Idaho Senator Larry Craig.

Tim,

There you go again. As you have been informed previiously in another thread you mistakingly entitled: "You want disinformation - here it is..." - when in fact you were refering to misinformation by Jim Marrs, you fail to learn or correct yourself.

Disinformation is deliberately misleading information announced publicly or leaked by a government, intelligence agency, corporation or other entity for the purpose of influencing opinions or perceptions.

Unlike misinformation, which is also a form of wrong information, disinformation is produced by people who intend to deceive their audience.

If the origin is not a government, intelligence agency, corporation or other such entity it is not disinformation - and Jim Marrs certainly does not qualify in either instance you site.

In addition, disinformation, unlike propaganda, is not aimed at influincing public opinion, but is intended to influence decision makers and power brokers and their thinking.

So please be more precise in your language so not to confuse things, especially since I am going to review the black prop ops that try to blame the assassination on Castro to see if the origin of this specific disinformation campaign can be determined.

And I never site Jim Marrs book for anything, as it does not have an index and is poorly referenced, though I like Jim, a real good guy. Not a disinformation agent, like Alvarado, Mitrokin, et al.

BK

[Tim Gratz]

Bill, finally, we have several things to agree on!

You wrote:

I like Jim, a real good guy.

I won't comment aye or nay on Mr Marrs but I wholeheartedly agree that you are a REAL good guy!

You also wrote:

And I never site Jim Marrs book for anything, as it does not have an index and is poorly referenced

I can agree with half of that. The paperback version I purchased yesterday has an index but it is not a good index and I agree with you re the references.

That being said, I have picked up several new pieces of information from the book.

Finally, if you want to limit the term "disinformation" to a government or corporation I can certainly accept that distinction.

Finally, I must at least pick one point with you. You wrote:

So please be more precise in your language so not to confuse things, especially since I am going to review the black prop ops that try to blame the assassination on Castro to see if the origin of this specific disinformation campaign can be determined.

You have committed the fallacy of begging the question. Accepting the distinction you raised, you cannot characterize what you call "the Castro myths" as "disinformation" until you can determine their source. If the source is an individual Cuban exile out to smear Castro, under your definition that is not "disinformation".

[Kathleen Collins]

Bill, finally, we have several things to agree on!

You wrote:

I like Jim, a real good guy.

I won't comment aye or nay on Mr Marrs but I wholeheartedly agree that you are a REAL good guy!

You also wrote:

And I never site Jim Marrs book for anything, as it does not have an index and is poorly referenced

I can agree with half of that. The paperback version I purchased yesterday has an index but it is not a good index and I agree with you re the references.

That being said, I have picked up several new pieces of information from the book.

Crossfire was the first book I read that mentioned Karyn Kupcinet as the first witness after Oswald to die, due to her preknowledge of the Assassination. This info was taken from the legendary Penn Jones, Jr. I have never read his books, but I'd like to get ahold of Forgive My Grief II. Jones is quoted as saying Karyn, a disturbed woman, tried to place a person-to-person call to Chicago. She didn't get through, but the operators heard her saying, "They're going to kill the President." Twenty minutes later, they did. The telephone company manager called the FBI. It was printed in many newspapers the next day.

It seems to me that Penn Jones -- if he is quoted correctly -- has the mind of a novelist. Years later he took a true story about this call which occurred in California and connected it to Karyn Kupcinet, who had died 6 days later. Jones had appeared on Kup's Show in 1966. It may have been here that he found out about the unsolved murder of Karyn Kupcinet, and the wheels started turning.

In my opinion, she had no foreknowledge of the assassination. If she was killed in any way having to do with the assassination or Ruby, it was to get at Irv, her reporter father, who knew everyone in Chicago.

Re Jim Marrs, I think his book was comprehensive and hard to put down. I believe he strove to tell the truth and may have been influenced by Penn Jones' writing.

Kathy

[Tim Gratz]

I wrote yesterday re "Crossfire":

The paperback version I purchased yesterday has an index but it is not a good index

Just two examples.

E. Howard Hunt is mentioned in the book but he is nowhere to be found in the index. The book discusses the well-known Jarnigan incident but again you will look in vain for Jarnigan's name in the index.

I am not sure if the author of a book is responsible for indexing errors.

The book has a very good section re the witnesses who claimed seeing Oswald with Ruby, by the way.

[Tim Gratz]

Two more examples of the inadequate indexing in "Crossfire".

You will find neither Carroll Jarnigan nor Domino Benavides, both of whom are of course discussed in the book.

[William Kelly]

Two more examples of the inadequate indexing in "Crossfire".

You will find neither Carroll Jarnigan nor Domino Benavides, both of whom are of course discussed in the book.

Tim, My first edition copy of Jim Marrs book does not have an index. I didn't know there was a paperback edition.

But in any case, whatever he says, it's still not disinformation, even if its wrong.

BK

[Tim Gratz]

I agree, Bill.