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Can anyone tell me what the 8 deleated lines say, now that they've been released?

Caps are sections CIA censors wanted deleated but judge ordered released.

Thanks,

BK

From: The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence (Victor Marchetti, John Marks, Dell, 1974, pp. 135-136) -

....the agency continued its relationship with its 'penetrations' of Cuban exile groups - in a way reminiscent of its lingering ties with Eastern European emegre organizations from the early Cold War period. And the CIA kept many of the Bay of Pigs veterans under contract, paying them regular salaries for more than a decade afterward.

8 LINES DELEATED

Time after time, the Cuban government would parade CIA-sponsored rebels before television cameras to display them and their equipment to the Cuban public and the world. Often the captives made full confessions of the agency's role in their activities.

Nevertheless, the CIA kept looking for new and better ways to attact the Castro government. UNDER CONTRACT TO THE AGENCY, THE ELECTRIC BOAT DIVISION OF GENERAL DYNAMICS AT GROTON, CONNECTICUT DEVELOPED A HIGHLY MANEUVERABLE HIGH-SPEED BOAT DESIGNED FOR USE BY GUERILLA RAIDERS. THE BOAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FASTER THAN ANY SHIP IN THE CUBAN NAVY, AND THEREBY ABLE TO MOVE ARMS AND MEN INTO CUBA AT WILL. THERE WERE NUMBEROUS DELAYS IN PUTTING THE BOAT INTO PRODUCTION, HOWEVER, AND NO DELIVERIES WERE MADE UP TO 1967. BY THAT TIME, THE U.S. WAS TOO DEEPLY INVOLVED IN SOUTHEAST ASIA TO THINK SERIOUSLY ABOUT A NEW INVASION OF CUBA. THE CIA, THREFORE, QUIETLY DROPPED THE BOAT PROJECT AND TURNED THE DEVELOPMENTAL MODEL OVER TO THE U.S. NAVY.

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Can anyone tell me what the 8 deleated lines say, now that they've been released?

I THINK A MORE RECENTLY PUBLISHED, MAYBE EVEN A PAPERBACK EDITION OF THE CULT OF INTELLIGENCE WOULD HAVE THE 8 DELEATED LINES. - BK

Caps are sections CIA censors wanted deleated but judge ordered released.

Thanks,

BK

From: The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence (Victor Marchetti, John Marks, Dell, 1974, pp. 135-136) -

....the agency continued its relationship with its 'penetrations' of Cuban exile groups - in a way reminiscent of its lingering ties with Eastern European emegre organizations from the early Cold War period. And the CIA kept many of the Bay of Pigs veterans under contract, paying them regular salaries for more than a decade afterward.

8 LINES DELEATED

Time after time, the Cuban government would parade CIA-sponsored rebels before television cameras to display them and their equipment to the Cuban public and the world. Often the captives made full confessions of the agency's role in their activities.

Nevertheless, the CIA kept looking for new and better ways to attact the Castro government. UNDER CONTRACT TO THE AGENCY, THE ELECTRIC BOAT DIVISION OF GENERAL DYNAMICS AT GROTON, CONNECTICUT DEVELOPED A HIGHLY MANEUVERABLE HIGH-SPEED BOAT DESIGNED FOR USE BY GUERILLA RAIDERS. THE BOAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FASTER THAN ANY SHIP IN THE CUBAN NAVY, AND THEREBY ABLE TO MOVE ARMS AND MEN INTO CUBA AT WILL. THERE WERE NUMBEROUS DELAYS IN PUTTING THE BOAT INTO PRODUCTION, HOWEVER, AND NO DELIVERIES WERE MADE UP TO 1967. BY THAT TIME, THE U.S. WAS TOO DEEPLY INVOLVED IN SOUTHEAST ASIA TO THINK SERIOUSLY ABOUT A NEW INVASION OF CUBA. THE CIA, THREFORE, QUIETLY DROPPED THE BOAT PROJECT AND TURNED THE DEVELOPMENTAL MODEL OVER TO THE U.S. NAVY.

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While I haven't yet found a later edition copy of Marchetti and Marks' The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence that has the eight redacted lines, I would hope someone will eventually come up with it.

To bring this around to topic, I point out that the first Russian speaking person that LHO contacted in the Dallas/Fort Worth area was Mrs. Max Clark, said to be a princess in the Sherbotov family, whose husband worked as a security officer for the Convair Division of General Dynamics. [8H-344-345 and 8H-352].

After the assassination Max Clark knew the FBI agent who interviewed him on a first name basis [8H-349].

The idea that Oswald was in contact with individuals who worked for General Dynamics, the company that got the contract to design and build a new, swift, shallow water motor boat to replace the V-20 in the CIA Caribbean fleet, is just one of a number of connectionns between the Dealey Plaza operation and JMWAVE.

In addition, the Nazi scientists who worked on the jet engine, who came to the USA as part of Project Paperclip, with Von Braun, Dornberger, Gehlen et al., was assigned to work on the new boat design with Collins Radio, the defense contractor who leased the CIA raider ship Rex.

So the eight redacted lines in the CIA & Cult of Intelligence could be significant.

BK

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Can anyone tell me what the 8 deleated lines say, now that they've been released?

Caps are sections CIA censors wanted deleated but judge ordered released.

Thanks,

BK

From: The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence (Victor Marchetti, John Marks, Dell, 1974, pp. 135-136) -

....the agency continued its relationship with its 'penetrations' of Cuban exile groups - in a way reminiscent of its lingering ties with Eastern European emegre organizations from the early Cold War period. And the CIA kept many of the Bay of Pigs veterans under contract, paying them regular salaries for more than a decade afterward.

8 LINES DELEATED - Many thanks to Robert Howard (TPOC) for filling in the BLANKS.

“The failure at the Bay of Pigs did not prevent the CIA from conducting guerrilla activities against Cuba. The Agency’s operational bases in the United States were still intact, and these bases were used to launch numerous raids against Cuba. The Agency smuggled men, arms, equipment and money onto the island by sea and air, but Castro’s forces almost always either captured or killed the invaders and their contacts inside Cuba.”

Time after time, the Cuban government would parade CIA-sponsored rebels before television cameras to display them and their equipment to the Cuban public and the world. Often the captives made full confessions of the agency's role in their activities.

Nevertheless, the CIA kept looking for new and better ways to attact the Castro government. UNDER CONTRACT TO THE AGENCY, THE ELECTRIC BOAT DIVISION OF GENERAL DYNAMICS AT GROTON, CONNECTICUT DEVELOPED A HIGHLY MANEUVERABLE HIGH-SPEED BOAT DESIGNED FOR USE BY GUERILLA RAIDERS. THE BOAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FASTER THAN ANY SHIP IN THE CUBAN NAVY, AND THEREBY ABLE TO MOVE ARMS AND MEN INTO CUBA AT WILL. THERE WERE NUMBEROUS DELAYS IN PUTTING THE BOAT INTO PRODUCTION, HOWEVER, AND NO DELIVERIES WERE MADE UP TO 1967. BY THAT TIME, THE U.S. WAS TOO DEEPLY INVOLVED IN SOUTHEAST ASIA TO THINK SERIOUSLY ABOUT A NEW INVASION OF CUBA. THE CIA, THREFORE, QUIETLY DROPPED THE BOAT PROJECT AND TURNED THE DEVELOPMENTAL MODEL OVER TO THE U.S. NAVY.

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Very interesting and proving once more:

1. What bumblers there were in the CIA.

2. The PRIMARY beneficiary of Dallas lives 90 miles south of where I sit. But Desmond Fitzgerald was probably correct when he said that but for Dallas Castro would have been gone by Christmas of 1963. Sooner or later a band of CIA assassins would escape capture and finally succeeed in killing Castro.

Don't you suppose Castro's intelligence was even good enough to know that RFK approved continuing and escalating sabotage acts against Cuba including acts conducted in the week before Dallas?

Early on LBJ received information (whether true or not) that Castro might have ordered LHO on his mission. Soon thereafter Califano went to work undoing the anti-Castro operations. Hmmm. Food for thought.

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The redacted lines:

“The failure at the Bay of Pigs did not prevent the CIA from conducting guerrilla activities against Cuba. The Agency’s operational bases in the United States were still intact, and these bases were used to launch numerous raids against Cuba. The Agency smuggled men, arms, equipment and money onto the island by sea and air, but Castro’s forces almost always either captured or killed the invaders and their contacts inside Cuba.” [My emphasis.]

What a lucky guy Castro was.

Well, perhaps not.

Is there any doubt he had agents infiltrated in most of the Cuban exile oreganizations? And who reportedly was paying those agents through rigged bolita games? Well, I think it was a leading mafioso who made a deal with Rauol Castro to get out of Castro's prison, minimum security though it was.

Castro's luck was about to run out.

Then came Dallas.

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While I haven't yet found a later edition copy of Marchetti and Marks' The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence that has the eight redacted lines, I would hope someone will eventually come up with it.

To bring this around to topic, I point out that the first Russian speaking person that LHO contacted in the Dallas/Fort Worth area was Mrs. Max Clark, said to be a princess in the Sherbotov family, whose husband worked as a security officer for the Convair Division of General Dynamics. [8H-344-345 and 8H-352].

After the assassination Max Clark knew the FBI agent who interviewed him on a first name basis [8H-349].

The idea that Oswald was in contact with individuals who worked for General Dynamics, the company that got the contract to design and build a new, swift, shallow water motor boat to replace the V-20 in the CIA Caribbean fleet, is just one of a number of connectionns between the Dealey Plaza operation and JMWAVE.

In addition, the Nazi scientists who worked on the jet engine, who came to the USA as part of Project Paperclip, with Von Braun, Dornberger, Gehlen et al., was assigned to work on the new boat design with Collins Radio, the defense contractor who leased the CIA raider ship Rex.

So the eight redacted lines in the CIA & Cult of Intelligence could be significant.

BK

On Max Clark and Project Rock (copied and pasted from my blog) "Covert History"):

Max Clark, Oswald and Project Rock

One of the names in Lee Harvey Oswald's address book was Mrs. Max Clark, the Russian-born wife of Max Clark, the Chief of Security at the Corvair plant of General Dynamics in Fort Worth.

Peter Dale Scott, one of the keenest minds among assassination researchers, had this to say about Max Clark in his unpublished essay "Government Documents and the JFK Assassination":

In his curious "translation" of Marina Oswald's testimony, Peter Gregory, who was a close friend of Max Clark and his Russian wife, suppressed the name of one of the Oswald's contacts in the Russian community: other testimony suggests that the missing name was almost certainly that of his own friend Clark. This pattern of cover-up was repeated by the Warren Commission.

Scott has this to say about Corvair in his unpublished book-length manuscript "The Dallas Conspiracy":

Corvair, up to the time of the Kennedy assassination was being investigated by a Senate committee for possible major scandals surrounding the controversial contract award to build the TFX experimental fighter plane.

CIA analysts examined the listings in Oswald's address book and ran name traces on them. From CIA document RIF#104-10111-10125, dated January 12, 1959

MEMORANDUM FOR: Chief, Security Suppport Division

ATTENTION:: Chief, IB/4

FROM: Project ROCK/IDIO/ ph._________ (Illegible) (Clearance)

re:

CLARK, Max Edward

DPD-SO 10291

GIST:

Clearance determination requested on the above employee(s) of the cited project.

DETAILS:

Attached is (are) PSQ on above employee(s) of the cited project, who is (are) of interest to this office in connection with Project ROCK. The Subject(s) will become aware that his (their) firm has undertaken a Top Secret government project, and will also become exposed to, and familiar with, highly sensitive technical equipment which is being developed.

This raises the question: just what was Project Rock?

Another document gives us a clue. Another name in Oswald's address book is Bill Stuckey, who was a journalist who interviewed Oswald in New Orleans. In attempting to trace this name analyst M.D. Stevens came up with one Clarence William Stuckey, who, as it turns out, was not the Bill Stuckey in Oswald's book.

This Stuckey, however, according to CIA document RIF#104-10439-10222 was "originally of interest to CIA in 1955 in connection with project ROCK [AQUATONE (OARFISH)]. At that time he was (or recently had been) employed by the Lockheed Aircraft in Burbank, California.

Although this was the wrong Stuckey please note that the CIA did not think it odd that Oswald was apparently linked to two people cleared for the same secret project. The use of the codenames OARFISH AND AQUATONE do give us an idea as to just what Project Rock was. Both names related to the top-secret U-2 project which was built at Lockheed Aircraft. And Oswald, of course, was familiar with the U-2 from his time at Asugi Air Force Base in Japan.

One other person, who Oswald did not know (to my knowledge) was cleared for Project Rock. That would be, according to CIA document RIF#104-10106-10582, dated 9/17/59, legendary CIA officer William Harvey:

It is requested that the file of the above captioned Staff Employee be reviewed with regard to a security determination fo utilization on Project ROCK.

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While I haven't yet found a later edition copy of Marchetti and Marks' The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence that has the eight redacted lines, I would hope someone will eventually come up with it.

To bring this around to topic, I point out that the first Russian speaking person that LHO contacted in the Dallas/Fort Worth area was Mrs. Max Clark, said to be a princess in the Sherbotov family, whose husband worked as a security officer for the Convair Division of General Dynamics. [8H-344-345 and 8H-352].

After the assassination Max Clark knew the FBI agent who interviewed him on a first name basis [8H-349].

The idea that Oswald was in contact with individuals who worked for General Dynamics, the company that got the contract to design and build a new, swift, shallow water motor boat to replace the V-20 in the CIA Caribbean fleet, is just one of a number of connectionns between the Dealey Plaza operation and JMWAVE.

In addition, the Nazi scientists who worked on the jet engine, who came to the USA as part of Project Paperclip, with Von Braun, Dornberger, Gehlen et al., was assigned to work on the new boat design with Collins Radio, the defense contractor who leased the CIA raider ship Rex.

So the eight redacted lines in the CIA & Cult of Intelligence could be significant.

BK

On Max Clark and Project Rock (copied and pasted from my blog) "Covert History"):

Max Clark, Oswald and Project Rock

One of the names in Lee Harvey Oswald's address book was Mrs. Max Clark, the Russian-born wife of Max Clark, the Chief of Security at the Corvair plant of General Dynamics in Fort Worth.

Peter Dale Scott, one of the keenest minds among assassination researchers, had this to say about Max Clark in his unpublished essay "Government Documents and the JFK Assassination":

In his curious "translation" of Marina Oswald's testimony, Peter Gregory, who was a close friend of Max Clark and his Russian wife, suppressed the name of one of the Oswald's contacts in the Russian community: other testimony suggests that the missing name was almost certainly that of his own friend Clark. This pattern of cover-up was repeated by the Warren Commission.

Scott has this to say about Corvair in his unpublished book-length manuscript "The Dallas Conspiracy":

Corvair, up to the time of the Kennedy assassination was being investigated by a Senate committee for possible major scandals surrounding the controversial contract award to build the TFX experimental fighter plane.

CIA analysts examined the listings in Oswald's address book and ran name traces on them. From CIA document RIF#104-10111-10125, dated January 12, 1959

MEMORANDUM FOR: Chief, Security Suppport Division

ATTENTION:: Chief, IB/4

FROM: Project ROCK/IDIO/ ph._________ (Illegible) (Clearance)

re:

CLARK, Max Edward

DPD-SO 10291

GIST:

Clearance determination requested on the above employee(s) of the cited project.

DETAILS:

Attached is (are) PSQ on above employee(s) of the cited project, who is (are) of interest to this office in connection with Project ROCK. The Subject(s) will become aware that his (their) firm has undertaken a Top Secret government project, and will also become exposed to, and familiar with, highly sensitive technical equipment which is being developed.

This raises the question: just what was Project Rock?

Another document gives us a clue. Another name in Oswald's address book is Bill Stuckey, who was a journalist who interviewed Oswald in New Orleans. In attempting to trace this name analyst M.D. Stevens came up with one Clarence William Stuckey, who, as it turns out, was not the Bill Stuckey in Oswald's book.

This Stuckey, however, according to CIA document RIF#104-10439-10222 was "originally of interest to CIA in 1955 in connection with project ROCK [AQUATONE (OARFISH)]. At that time he was (or recently had been) employed by the Lockheed Aircraft in Burbank, California.

Although this was the wrong Stuckey please note that the CIA did not think it odd that Oswald was apparently linked to two people cleared for the same secret project. The use of the codenames OARFISH AND AQUATONE do give us an idea as to just what Project Rock was. Both names related to the top-secret U-2 project which was built at Lockheed Aircraft. And Oswald, of course, was familiar with the U-2 from his time at Asugi Air Force Base in Japan.

One other person, who Oswald did not know (to my knowledge) was cleared for Project Rock. That would be, according to CIA document RIF#104-10106-10582, dated 9/17/59, legendary CIA officer William Harvey:

It is requested that the file of the above captioned Staff Employee be reviewed with regard to a security determination fo utilization on Project ROCK.

Hi Gary,

Many thanks for the comeback and corresponding info.

I had just been to your blog - Covert History a few times for different reasons - 1) the Thornley-David Bucknell story of Oswald and Bucknell being called for a special Cuban meeting at USMC, San Diego; 2) Your phone call to Donald Norton, which I thought a wrong approach - I like calling witnesses and suspects out of the blue and have done it on many occassions - (ie. David A. Phillips), but you must approach these people with kid gloves - and ask them the right questions in order to ensure they are the right person and to get their cooperation.

Whenever I get around to looking for the Don Norton I want - I will ask him first if he knows Mae Brussel - who introduced me to him - and if he says no, then its not the guy I am looking for. Starting out accusing somebody of beind Oswald or involved in a conspiracy to kill anyone is starting out on the wrong foot.

I think the Don Norton who I met with Mae Brussell is the same Don Norton who was blackmailed into the CIA for being gay and was in the military and knew Ferrie et al., and not the other Don Norton.

I'm not sure however, and am willing to be convinced otherwise.

As for Max Clark and Convair and Project Rock, that's new info to me, so many thanks again.

Bill Kelly

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Max Clark was also a lawyer and a close friend of George de Mohrenschildt.

Clark was mixed up in a very spooky company called 'Sphere Inc'. He had an associate named Stephen Holland who was the company's secretary but very little is known about him and his alleged connections to J. Walton Moore. Also, there is precious little available regarding Sphere.

I do believe there is important information to gather here but the passage of time and Agency subterfuge has most likely made the task impossible.

James

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So James what was the relationship if any between Stephen and Max?

Tim,

Firstly it was a business one. Clark was the lawyer representing Sphere Inc., Holland was the secretary. That is rock solid.

What is on less stable ground is Holland's connections to CIA and a related land deal overseen by Clark that saw the acquisition of some 700 acres near Barron Field just south of Fort Worth. Clark at the time was working for Raymond H. Beyer, the president of Sphere Inc.

Beyer is another whose alleged Agency connections are way beyond my limited investigative skills I'm afraid.

James

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