Tim Gratz Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I am sure all are aware of the controversy over whether Mr. Ruby was at Parkland Hospital after JFK was taken there. It is hard to believe that Seth Kantor was confused about his encounter with Ruby. Although the WC did not credit Kantor's story, the HSCA did. If Ruby was engaged in some nefarious plot at Parkland (and we all know at least one of the suggestions of what he was doing there) why would he make a point of making his presence known to Kantor? Then again if he was at Parkland for some totally innocent reason, why would he deny being there? Is it possible that Ruby was part of the plot before-hand, but knowing Oswald was to be killed or removed shortly after the assassination, so he thought his role in the plot was over and hence was "open" in showing his presence to Kantor but once he found out LHO had been captured alive, he had to change his story and deny being there? Anybody have any other idea why he would almost literally announce his presence to Kantor and then later deny being at Parkland? Does anyone think there is ANY chance Kantor was wrong about seeing Ruby at Parkland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Tim, first the short answer. Ruby was briefly at Parkland trying to find out for himself what really had happened, when he encountered Kantor he had not been given his full future role. Kantor was correct and there are other credible witnesses that support him. Beyond that I have to refer you back to SWHT where I develop an almost minute by minute evolution of Jack's role, his changes in emotional states which are a dead give away, his movements and his telephone calls. Much of that is based in Kantors detailed investigation. The fascinating thing is that reather than belive the work of its own investigators or of Kantor, the WC literally accepted Jack's and Jack's relatives statements about his movements and behavior at face value...then they dismissed their investigators. Sort of like taking statements from known mopsters as confirmation that Jack had no mob connections....which pretty well goes beyond simply being naive. -- Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I am sure all are aware of the controversy over whether Mr. Ruby was at Parkland Hospital after JFK was taken there.It is hard to believe that Seth Kantor was confused about his encounter with Ruby. Although the WC did not credit Kantor's story, the HSCA did. If Ruby was engaged in some nefarious plot at Parkland (and we all know at least one of the suggestions of what he was doing there) why would he make a point of making his presence known to Kantor? Then again if he was at Parkland for some totally innocent reason, why would he deny being there? Is it possible that Ruby was part of the plot before-hand, but knowing Oswald was to be killed or removed shortly after the assassination, so he thought his role in the plot was over and hence was "open" in showing his presence to Kantor but once he found out LHO had been captured alive, he had to change his story and deny being there? Anybody have any other idea why he would almost literally announce his presence to Kantor and then later deny being at Parkland? Does anyone think there is ANY chance Kantor was wrong about seeing Ruby at Parkland? Seth was a close friend of mine. It is impossible that he was mistaken or lying. Ruby was notorious for playing up the the media. Kantor and Ruby knew each other well from Kantor's days on Fort Worth and Dallas newspapers. Both were Jewish, which may have furthered their acquaintanceship. Since they knew each other well...IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SUSPICIOUS IF RUBY HAD NOT SPOKEN TO SOMEONE HE CONSIDERED A FRIEND. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Larry, There was a woman (her name escapes me right now) who said that she also saw Ruby at Parkland. She said that after revealing that, she started to get threatening phone calls "to keep her mouth shut". I think she moved out of Dallas. Tim, first the short answer. Ruby was briefly at Parkland trying to find out for himself what really had happened, when heencountered Kantor he had not been given his full future role. When do you think that happened? Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 Steve, as I recall the woman's name was Wilma Tice. (Having lost a LOT in Hurricane Wilma almost exactly two years ago today, Wilma is an easy name to remember. She did testify to such threats. There is a good article on this in the Dealey Plaza Echo all issues of which are now available through the wonderful MFF website. To Larry: I think you are restating my surmise. The conspirators may have expected LHO would be dead by 1:00 p.m. Larry, you do not mean to imply that JR had no role at all in the conspiracy PRIOR to the death of LHO, do you? I believe you credit the reports of two meetings between Ruby and Rosselli in Miami in Sept or Oct of 1963, which were surely more than social get-togethers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 Link to Wilma's testimony: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/tice_w.htm Most interesting reading. You SHOULD read it so I will not summarize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Steve, Ruby was worried by the time he briefly hit Parkland....he was certainly not clued into the full detail of what was going to happen and his reaction at the paper when he first heard the news is a fairly good clue there. I suspect he was at about the same degree of loss as Oswald around 12:45....e.g. what the heck did these people do and how deep am I in trouble. Later in the afternoon after he has his phone call and goes to his sisters and everything begins to hit him he literally begins throwing up ... Kantor and Tice simply happened to see him during the transition. Tice was not the only one to get threatening calls of course, the people at the most immediate risk where those folks who had some knowledge of old Jacks connections....I'm pretty sure it got Kothe killed. ....hope that answered your question, Larry Larry,There was a woman (her name escapes me right now) who said that she also saw Ruby at Parkland. She said that after revealing that, she started to get threatening phone calls "to keep her mouth shut". I think she moved out of Dallas. Tim, first the short answer. Ruby was briefly at Parkland trying to find out for himself what really had happened, when heencountered Kantor he had not been given his full future role. When do you think that happened? Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Tim I belive I go into that in some rather agonizing detail...grin. Certainly Jack had a role for Nov. 22 and he was expecting some "fireworks" as one informant related. The tactical folks needed some local intel, especially from within DPD and Jack certainly was the man for that. His contacts were so good he even knew when Oswald was supposed to be transferred on Saturday and then later that it was not going to happen. However, as with many other things, lots of folks roles changed when Oswald ended up in custody. -- Larry Steve, as I recall the woman's name was Wilma Tice. (Having lost a LOT in Hurricane Wilma almost exactly two years ago today, Wilma is an easy name to remember. She did testify to such threats. There is a good article on this in the Dealey Plaza Echo all issues of which are now available through the wonderful MFF website.To Larry: I think you are restating my surmise. The conspirators may have expected LHO would be dead by 1:00 p.m. Larry, you do not mean to imply that JR had no role at all in the conspiracy PRIOR to the death of LHO, do you? I believe you credit the reports of two meetings between Ruby and Rosselli in Miami in Sept or Oct of 1963, which were surely more than social get-togethers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Meredith Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I am sure all are aware of the controversy over whether Mr. Ruby was at Parkland Hospital after JFK was taken there.It is hard to believe that Seth Kantor was confused about his encounter with Ruby. Although the WC did not credit Kantor's story, the HSCA did. If Ruby was engaged in some nefarious plot at Parkland (and we all know at least one of the suggestions of what he was doing there) why would he make a point of making his presence known to Kantor? Then again if he was at Parkland for some totally innocent reason, why would he deny being there? Is it possible that Ruby was part of the plot before-hand, but knowing Oswald was to be killed or removed shortly after the assassination, so he thought his role in the plot was over and hence was "open" in showing his presence to Kantor but once he found out LHO had been captured alive, he had to change his story and deny being there? Anybody have any other idea why he would almost literally announce his presence to Kantor and then later deny being at Parkland? Does anyone think there is ANY chance Kantor was wrong about seeing Ruby at Parkland? None. Kantor knew well who Ruby was. What would be his motivation to lie? Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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