De Menezes trial

[Guest David Guyatt]

Remembering Jean Charles de Menezes:

An innocent Brazilian electrician who was covertly tracked by various police (and one assumes MI5 types), chased on to an Underground train, restrained by one policeman as another shot him seven times in the head.

Under immense public pressure the government allows a prosecution to take place. Not a murder trial, not a manslaughter trial… but a corporate health and safety trial where the Metropolitan Police are held accountable and fined £175,000.

It’s always nice to see that justice is done and is seen to be done.

It would be nice if, one day, it was.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle2786380.ece

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Remembering Jean Charles de Menezes:

An innocent Brazilian electrician who was covertly tracked by various police (and one assumes MI5 types), chased on to an Underground train, restrained by one policeman as another shot him seven times in the head.

Under immense public pressure the government allows a prosecution to take place. Not a murder trial, not a manslaughter trial… but a corporate health and safety trial where the Metropolitan Police are held accountable and fined £175,000.

It’s always nice to see that justice is done and is seen to be done.

It would be nice if, one day, it was.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle2786380.ece

Coming from West Belfast, I perhaps have a more tainted view of such things than others.

Michael jackson was the man on hte ground in the Bogside in Derry on Bloody Sunday - seemed a good career move

Ronnie Flanagan ran a de facto shoot to kill policy in NI as head of Special Branch, became chief of Police and has recently compiled a report in Iraq as part of a 'think tank' exercise.

Gordon Kerr ran the Force Research Unit (FRU), became an attache in Beijing and is now working in Iraq on insurgency tactics.

Hugh Orde worked under John Stevens investigating military/loyalist collusion esp. Finucane(Stevens is the man the government calls on to produce any amount of whitwash inquiries) - Hugh became chief here, his 'inside' knowledge was probably quite helpful in this regard.

and John Stalker sells double glazing/conservatories or some such on TV...go figure.

Justice, seemingly, is an accidental by-product; if it arrives at all. Forgive my cynicism.

[Guest David Guyatt]

I think your cynacism is well founded, Gary. The government sanctioned arms-length assassination squads that operated there were was appalling.

Peter, yes, incredibly there was an anti-terrorist "exercise" running in London on 7/7 that occurred at the same time and in the same tube stations. Notionally it was financed by an American bank and was a private matter. Notionally. And yet, the former Israeli prime minister, Benyamin Netanyahu, who was due to give a spech in the City at the time the bombs went off, was earlier warned by the Israeli Embassy to remain in his hotel room. Curiously though, according to all the post events news stories, the bombing came as a complete and utter surprise to one and all.

So how come the Israeli's knew?

David

[John Simkin]

Remembering Jean Charles de Menezes:

An innocent Brazilian electrician who was covertly tracked by various police (and one assumes MI5 types), chased on to an Underground train, restrained by one policeman as another shot him seven times in the head.

Under immense public pressure the government allows a prosecution to take place. Not a murder trial, not a manslaughter trial… but a corporate health and safety trial where the Metropolitan Police are held accountable and fined £175,000.

It’s always nice to see that justice is done and is seen to be done.

It would be nice if, one day, it was.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle2786380.ece

Makes you ashamed to be British. Even more disturbing is the large percentage of British people who believe the police was justified in the action they took and that no one should be punished for their actions.

[Guest David Guyatt]

Makes you ashamed to be British. Even more disturbing is the large percentage of British people who believe the police was justified in the action they took and that no one should be punished for their actions.

It does make you ashamed to be British. From the second it happened I began to suspect it was done deliberately to send a loud and clear message that the guns are out.

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Makes you ashamed to be British. Even more disturbing is the large percentage of British people who believe the police was justified in the action they took and that no one should be punished for their actions.

It does make you ashamed to be British. From the second it happened I began to suspect it was done deliberately to send a loud and clear message that the guns are out.

...and that friends is real terrorism!!!

[Guest]

Remembering Jean Charles de Menezes:

An innocent Brazilian electrician who was covertly tracked by various police (and one assumes MI5 types), chased on to an Underground train, restrained by one policeman as another shot him seven times in the head.

Under immense public pressure the government allows a prosecution to take place. Not a murder trial, not a manslaughter trial… but a corporate health and safety trial where the Metropolitan Police are held accountable and fined £175,000.

It’s always nice to see that justice is done and is seen to be done.

It would be nice if, one day, it was.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle2786380.ece

Makes you ashamed to be British. Even more disturbing is the large percentage of British people who believe the police was justified in the action they took and that no one should be punished for their actions.

The greatest threat to our liberty is an unaccountable and uncontrolled police force.

I have not met a single British person who has asserted that the police were justified in the action they took in this case and I wonder who John has been mixing with recently.

[Len Colby]

Peter, yes, incredibly there was an anti-terrorist "exercise" running in London on 7/7 that occurred at the same time and in the same tube stations. Notionally it was financed by an American bank and was a private matter. Notionally.

http://www.911myths.com/html/7_7_exercise_probabilities.html

And yet, the former Israeli prime minister, Benyamin Netanyahu, who was due to give a spech in the City at the time the bombs went off, was earlier warned by the Israeli Embassy to remain in his hotel room. Curiously though, according to all the post events news stories, the bombing came as a complete and utter surprise to one and all.

So how come the Israeli's knew?

David

- Do you have a citation for this claim?

- Was he supposed to go from his hotel to where he was going to give his speech by public transportation? If not what basis is for there for the assumption the warning indicated foreknowledge?

I do agree with you about the de Menezes, matter quite disgraceful. As a few commentators here have pointed out if a Briton were killed here in similar circumstances and then the guilty similarly evaded punishment patronizing remarks would be made about Brazil being a third world country and its police and justice systems not operating at British levels.

I don’t know about other countries but Brazil and the US are the same. Unjustified police violence including killings are all too frequent, and justice being done all to rare.

[Guest]

Makes you ashamed to be British. Even more disturbing is the large percentage of British people who believe the police was justified in the action they took and that no one should be punished for their actions.

It does make you ashamed to be British. From the second it happened I began to suspect it was done deliberately to send a loud and clear message that the guns are out.

...and that friends is real terrorism!!!

Compared to what???

[Michael Hogan]

Peter, yes, incredibly there was an anti-terrorist "exercise" running in London on 7/7 that occurred at the same time and in the same tube stations. Notionally it was financed by an American bank and was a private matter. Notionally.

http://www.911myths.com/html/7_7_exercise_probabilities.html

http://www.wanttoknow.info/050713londonbombingcoverup

[John Simkin]

The greatest threat to our liberty is an unaccountable and uncontrolled police force.

I have not met a single British person who has asserted that the police were justified in the action they took in this case and I wonder who John has been mixing with recently.

It is based on listening to radio phone-ins and watching BBC Question Time.

[Guest David Guyatt]

- Do you have a citation for this claim?

- Was he supposed to go from his hotel to where he was going to give his speech by public transportation? If not what basis is for there for the assumption the warning indicated foreknowledge?

I do agree with you about the de Menezes, matter quite disgraceful. As a few commentators here have pointed out if a Briton were killed here in similar circumstances and then the guilty similarly evaded punishment patronizing remarks would be made about Brazil being a third world country and its police and justice systems not operating at British levels.

I don’t know about other countries but Brazil and the US are the same. Unjustified police violence including killings are all too frequent, and justice being done all to rare.

Yes Len, I have posted on this earlier here but couldn't find it if I tried. There was an Israeli Army news item I tracked down to verify what was reported elsewhere. For more detailed information try:

http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/J7-london-bom...sier/index.html

He was due to attend a financial conference where he was a guest speaker and the location of that conference was the problem, I believe. But read it yourself and you'll see the whole affair. Don't trust the head of the private security group that conducted the "exercise" - he was a former senior Metropolitan bomb squad police officer and a little too suave and a little too practised when he appeared on radio and TV to relate the events of 7/7.

I think it is clear, as several UK posters here have said, the ground swell of public opinion in this country is one of wholehearted unease at this incident. Like Andy, I also know no one who regards the police action as reasonable or understandable. It was plain and simple murder.

And I'll give you a clue why no murder charges were brought.

Less than a year (approximately anyway) before the shooting, there was a situation in which armed response police officers who had shot another innocent man (not a terrorist incident this time, but, as I recall, a guy carrying a table leg that the police officers thought was a weapon) dead. The two officers were suspended from duty and an investigation ensued. After many months it became evident that the police force was plying the line that if the officers were convicted for manslaughter, no police officer would, in the future, consent to carry arms.... goodbye armed response teams. The government was very effectively blackmailed, in other words. Consequently, a deal was cut that legally absolved armed police officers from prosecution for shooting innocent people.

Makes you wonder if the future had been foreseen doesn't it?

[Len Colby]

Peter, yes, incredibly there was an anti-terrorist "exercise" running in London on 7/7 that occurred at the same time and in the same tube stations. Notionally it was financed by an American bank and was a private matter. Notionally.

http://www.911myths.com/html/7_7_exercise_probabilities.html

http://www.wanttoknow.info/050713londonbombingcoverup

1) Underlining and color change added

Distrubing....many microbiologists apparently died mysterious deaths after 911 and the Anthrax Scare.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/deadbiologists.html

LOL That old canard!

http://911myths.com/html/microbiologists.html

My link is better than your link. Now that's research.

LOL. (Added for extra emphasis)

2) Unlike the link I posted above which led to your sarcastic comment, your link in no way refuted the link it was posted in response to. If posting a link that refutes a previous once doesn’t constitute “research” how then should we classify one that doesn’t?

Let’s try and think about this logically.

The only information that we have that there was any correspondence between the stations bombed and those in the exercise is Powers himself. I’ve seen no independent indication of where they were being held or any names mentioned. Now if the exercise indicated foreknowledge presumably he would have been “in on it” why then would he have blabbed about this not once but twice?

[Len Colby]

- Do you have a citation for this claim?

- Was he supposed to go from his hotel to where he was going to give his speech by public transportation? If not what basis is for there for the assumption the warning indicated foreknowledge?

I do agree with you about the de Menezes, matter quite disgraceful. As a few commentators here have pointed out if a Briton were killed here in similar circumstances and then the guilty similarly evaded punishment patronizing remarks would be made about Brazil being a third world country and its police and justice systems not operating at British levels.

I don’t know about other countries but Brazil and the US are the same. Unjustified police violence including killings are all too frequent, and justice being done all to rare.

Yes Len, I have posted on this earlier here but couldn't find it if I tried. There was an Israeli Army news item I tracked down to verify what was reported elsewhere. For more detailed information try:

http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/J7-london-bom...sier/index.html

He was due to attend a financial conference where he was a guest speaker and the location of that conference was the problem, I believe. But read it yourself and you'll see the whole affair. Don't trust the head of the private security group that conducted the "exercise" - he was a former senior Metropolitan bomb squad police officer and a little too suave and a little too practised when he appeared on radio and TV to relate the events of 7/7.

David I couldn't find backing for your claim in the supplied link.

[Michael Hogan]

Unlike the link I posted above which led to your sarcastic comment, your link in no way refuted the link it was posted in response to. If posting a link that refutes a previous once doesn’t constitute “research” how then should we classify one that doesn’t?

I thought you might pick up on my sarcasm, but apparently not. Let me break it down for you, Len.

You repeated your worn out tactic of supplying the 911myth link, which didn't even directly address the point David Guyatt was making. It was discussing the odds, not the event itself.

In response, I posted a link with no commentary, just as you did to demonstrate your penchant for posting the 911myth link as if it were somehow valid. I was mocking that practice of yours, Len. Do you get it now?

Every time you post that 911myth link as if it somehow magically rebuts what someone else is saying, adding NO commentary of your own, you satisfy yourself but few others.

You can bet I was aware of that other exchange you reproduced. I thought you might be perceptive enough to recognize satire when you see it.

I was wrong.