Ashton Gray Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 This forum once was a place of rational discussion and relevant facts related to important issues in history. In recent months it has been turned over to disinformation scum who dump wholly irrelevant and unanalyzed garbage into it by the truckload—which not only is condoned by the administrators, but actually has been endorsed by John Simkin. I've recently posted two parody posts in just two of the insanely off-topic and irrelevant threads that John Bevilaqua started for no other purpose except to provide a stage where he and Tim Gratz can absolutely flood the forum with this wholesale useless trash and keep their phony Punch 'n' Judy show going to drown out as much rationality as possible with demented off-topic noise. Those parody posts of mine soon will be deleted as the first of my posts in this forum to be deleted. The rest of my contributions over the past year and a half to this forum have been graciously archived by several people, and also will incrementally be deleted over time as they are reposted elsewhere in locations where reasonable and rational people maintain order and provide a safe environment for dissemination and reasoned discussion of relevant facts and truth. While I have the greatest of admiration for what Simkin and Walker set out to do with the establishment of these forums, and while I owe a debt of gratitude to both for allowing me to present in these forums the evidence and work so hard won, I no longer wish to have my works associated with what this forum now has been converted to. I am deeply indebted to several members of this forum for their tireless dedication to getting at the truth and the rational discussion and analysis of facts, and it has been a supreme honor to have had a chance to meet you and correspond with you. I have learned much from you. I expect you will be apprised in some way when my works are reposted elsewhere. You will be welcomed there, and I always welcome personal communication from you, which you can access with PMs through this forum until and unless Simkin or Walker elect to cancel my membership here. Ashton Gray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bevilaqua Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 This forum once was a place of rational discussion and relevant facts related to important issues in history.In recent months it has been turned over to disinformation scum who dump wholly irrelevant and unanalyzed garbage into it by the truckload—which not only is condoned by the administrators, but actually has been endorsed by John Simkin. I've recently posted two parody posts in just two of the insanely off-topic and irrelevant threads that John Bevilaqua started for no other purpose except to provide a stage where he and Tim Gratz can absolutely flood the forum with this wholesale useless trash and keep their phony Punch 'n' Judy show going to drown out as much rationality as possible with demented off-topic noise. Those parody posts of mine soon will be deleted as the first of my posts in this forum to be deleted. The rest of my contributions over the past year and a half to this forum have been graciously archived by several people, and also will incrementally be deleted over time as they are reposted elsewhere in locations where reasonable and rational people maintain order and provide a safe environment for dissemination and reasoned discussion of relevant facts and truth. While I have the greatest of admiration for what Simkin and Walker set out to do with the establishment of these forums, and while I owe a debt of gratitude to both for allowing me to present in these forums the evidence and work so hard won, I no longer wish to have my works associated with what this forum now has been converted to. I am deeply indebted to several members of this forum for their tireless dedication to getting at the truth and the rational discussion and analysis of facts, and it has been a supreme honor to have had a chance to meet you and correspond with you. I have learned much from you. I expect you will be apprised in some way when my works are reposted elsewhere. You will be welcomed there, and I always welcome personal communication from you, which you can access with PMs through this forum until and unless Simkin or Walker elect to cancel my membership here. Ashton Gray Good riddance, I say, to bad rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Pointing Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 This forum once was a place of rational discussion and relevant facts related to important issues in history.In recent months it has been turned over to disinformation scum who dump wholly irrelevant and unanalyzed garbage into it by the truckload—which not only is condoned by the administrators, but actually has been endorsed by John Simkin. I've recently posted two parody posts in just two of the insanely off-topic and irrelevant threads that John Bevilaqua started for no other purpose except to provide a stage where he and Tim Gratz can absolutely flood the forum with this wholesale useless trash and keep their phony Punch 'n' Judy show going to drown out as much rationality as possible with demented off-topic noise. Those parody posts of mine soon will be deleted as the first of my posts in this forum to be deleted. The rest of my contributions over the past year and a half to this forum have been graciously archived by several people, and also will incrementally be deleted over time as they are reposted elsewhere in locations where reasonable and rational people maintain order and provide a safe environment for dissemination and reasoned discussion of relevant facts and truth. While I have the greatest of admiration for what Simkin and Walker set out to do with the establishment of these forums, and while I owe a debt of gratitude to both for allowing me to present in these forums the evidence and work so hard won, I no longer wish to have my works associated with what this forum now has been converted to. I am deeply indebted to several members of this forum for their tireless dedication to getting at the truth and the rational discussion and analysis of facts, and it has been a supreme honor to have had a chance to meet you and correspond with you. I have learned much from you. I expect you will be apprised in some way when my works are reposted elsewhere. You will be welcomed there, and I always welcome personal communication from you, which you can access with PMs through this forum until and unless Simkin or Walker elect to cancel my membership here. Ashton Gray Another real JFK researcher leaving the forum because of Bevilaqua!! And his anti fascist rantings. How many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Another real JFK researcher leaving the forum because of Bevilaqua!! And his anti fascist rantings. How many more. You seem to have forgotten that Ashton also gave Tim Gratz as one of the reasons why he is leaving. Yet the other day you posted claiming that he should be allowed to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 This forum once was a place of rational discussion and relevant facts related to important issues in history. Still is. Ashton, I didn't get into it with you over the throat thing because we have bigger fish to fry. I think "the Timeline" is the most important work being done. Everything else is Parlor Gaming. Please continue with your Timeline work on the Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathaniel Heidenheimer Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Ashton- please reconsider: Your neo-Spartan prose style is needed, althought I didn't like it at first. Also, you are very skillful at reminding us how many gaps are still unfilled, even in the Official histories of Watergate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Meredith Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Ashton: As you know I totally disagree with your "no- shot -from- the- front" thesis. That said, you know I believe other work you were doing here, particularily on the black ops thread, as well as the timeline, was extremely important. I have always advocated just ignoring Gratz. (When that fails- read and re-read Charles Drago's most recent post on the black ops thread. Humor helps.) As for John B, and his tactics, many views were posted last weekend, then the thread was removed. Is this place "evolving"? Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Bronstein Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 This forum once was a place of rational discussion and relevant facts related to important issues in history. Still is. Ashton, I didn't get into it with you over the throat thing because we have bigger fish to fry. I think "the Timeline" is the most important work being done. Everything else is Parlor Gaming. Please continue with your Timeline work on the Forum. Can you please point me to "the Timeline" work you're referring to Cliff? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Healy Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Ashton, I think your one of the most interesting people on here & seriously love the way you express yourself. I too, hope you stay & keep your posts available to future students. Maybe if we had seperate sub-forums for the different areas of research/discussion we would see less "spam"? I don't know. Stay anyway. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Hall Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I hope that you reconsider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Williams Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Mr. Gray, New to the posting end of this forum, but have been a reader for sometime. I am also relatively new to the research. While I admire the work of several here on the forum, your posts are most enjoyable to me. I can not honestly say I agree with all you propose, but none the less, the work you do is amazing, dedicated, and served with conviction, and that says a lot. I ask you to reconsider your position, and not let the irritants cause you to leave when there are far more here that find high value in your views and opinions. Find humor in the irrational Mr. Gray, and life becomes far more bearable. In the words of Sun Tzu "The patient warrior who waits by the stream will soon see the bodies of his enemies float by." Semper Fi, Mike Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Jeffries Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Ashton- I've always enjoyed reading your posts. I don't agree with a lot of what you say, but you have an entertaining way of expressing yourself. That being said, I find these kinds of dramatic forum exits to be totally ridiculous. You see this all the time on internet forums, whether the subject is politics, superheroes or sports; a veteran poster suddenly announces that he is reluctantly leaving the forum. Without fail, this is followed by a series of posts begging the good poster to please reconsider and stay. I think that Bevilaqua's posts are rambling and full of vitriol that turns off a lot of people. I also realize that both he and Gratz are starting up a great number of threads. I probably agree with Tim less than I do with John B., but at least he is civil to everyone and argues his points intelligently. There is nothing to stop you from ignoring them or replying and showing them the error of their ways. That being said, it's not my call to ban someone and I would almost never support that. Imho, John Simkin is a very patient man who is providing us with a marvelous forum in which to rant, rave and pontificate about a variety of issues. On the belief that this forum is going down the tubes, while others are still providing something of value, exactly what other forums are you referring to? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 (edited) Don, John B's posts are certainly filled with vitriol. IMO some people such as John B, Mr Gray and Mr Kelly do not like it when I question their posts or ask them to verify their factual assertions. I think they simply want a Forum to post thir theories without any challenge to them. I do not mean to pat myself on the back here but contrast my exchanges with Robert Charles-Dunne. Even though he is often sarcastic and sometimes even condescending, his writing is often so clever and humorous that even I enjoy it though I am the target of his sarcasm. Moreover, he challenges me to support MY posts with facts (we are now enngaged in a somehat arcane discussion of whether Judy Eisenhower was Barry Goldwater's chief of staff or merely his top administarive assistant). I think accurate facts are important to the discussion (there are too many myths and misstatements circulating about the case) and the best way to get the truth out is through this give and take. If I was wrong about Mrs. Eisenhower's position, it is to Mr. Charles-Dunne's credit that he caught my error and he desres kudos not condemnation for it. If on the other hand the facts should bear out my position, I have the confidence that he has the intellectual integrity that he will admit I was right. In either event, with respect to the debate going on in that thread, it is important to pin down when Mrs. Esisenhower started working for BG and in what capacity. If I was wrong and had Mr., Charles-Dunne not challenged me on it, my error would have gone undetected. I think any one wanting the truth to come out should be pleased to respond to a challenge to their facts. It is of utmost importance we get our facts correct. For example, we do not want to quote Marrs that LHO had to run down five flights of stairs when it is self-evident it was only four. ("We hold this truth to be self-evident: that six minus two is four.") With respect to the interpretation of the facts, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and the reader can assess the logic of the opinion or inference as well as how accurately it reflects the established facts. IMO a spirited debate is what makes the Forum both educational and enjoyable. It is not so when it deteriorates into childish name-calling. Edited November 5, 2007 by Tim Gratz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Jeffries Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Tim, You have a tough opponent in Robert Charles-Dunne. I remember him well from his days as a regular poster for the JFK Research Forum, back in the late 1990s. I wish he posted more here; he is always intelligent and presents his arguments very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Don, I agree with you one hundred per cent and I also recognize that he has been researching the subject far longer than I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now