Was there an Embassy Official at the Oswald Wedding?

[Greg Parker]

edit

Edited November 17, 2012 by Greg Parker

[Tim Gratz]

Greg, do you really mean Loran (Loren) Hall?

[William Kelly]

Greg, do you really mean Loran (Loren) Hall?

I think he meant Loran Graham.

Very interesting article Greg.

It seems that the State Dept in Moscow was on top of things.

BK

[Tim Gratz]

Bill, I think we agree!

I neverr heard that Hall was ever in the Soviet Union.

I also agree that it is an interesting article.

[Greg Parker]

THE LAST POST

a haunting show-stopping tune by the inimitable J Timothy Gratz

page one

Tim Gratz

Tim Gratz

Tim Gratz

Bill Miller on Bowers

Tim Gratz

Tim Gratz

Harry Dean on flowers

Tim Gratz

Tim Gratz

Tim Gratz

Tim Gratz

page 2

Tim Gratz

Nat Heid on Lowenstein

Bill Miller getting mean

Cliff Varnell on Castro and those cats

Dave Boylan on Senator Rainach

But where o where is tim Gratz?

Charlie Drago on Dodd

Tom Purvis thinks he's God

Kath Collins on Capone

From Antti H a topical moan

But where o where has Tim gone?

Skip Tom Purvis

if he makes y'all nervous

And land your ass...

right on the Gratz

Here he is...the one and only

(big finish!)

TIM GRATZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Edited November 14, 2007 by Greg Parker

[Tim Gratz]

Greg, are you upset that I spotted an obvious but inconsequential error in your article? I was going to delete that post once you corrected it.

And did you bother to read my new posts? Four contained information that should be valuable to any researcher:

1. Reference to a cover story in the History Channel magazine current issue.

2. Reference to a website ith first day tv coverage of the events in DP (this was posted by others in both alt.assassination.jfk and on the Lancer Forum).

3. An interesting article about a recent interview with Robert Maheu (although not much new info that I could see).

4. And although not relevant to the assassination as such, an interesting reference to a USIS produced comic book about JFK.

One of the things I try to do every night is to check some of the other JFK websites to see if there is information that should be posted here.

And with two conferences upcoming in Dallas I noted new info to me that the Sixth Floor Museum has rare film of a JFK motorcade procession in Key West in Nov of 1962 which is interesting in comparison with the Dallas motorcade.

Now are there any of the above 5 items you think I should NOT have posted?

Edited November 14, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[Greg Parker]

Greg, do you really mean Loran (Loren) Hall?

I think he meant Loran Graham.

Very interesting article Greg.

It seems that the State Dept in Moscow was on top of things.

BK

Bill, I not only meant, I actually wrote it... I think Tim's computer at work needs some serious down time - at least until the standard of his jokes rises above the level of my three year olds.

Okay -- I'm assuming he was joking.

So, what do you guys yes - that includes you, J. Tim) think was going on here, if (1) the Grahams are believable and (2) what the wedding guest said was true?

FWIW, I see no good reason to disbelieve 1 or 2. For one, the Grahams had no idea that what they were told was at all important. In fact, even after learning it MIGHT be important, Loren Graham stated in his book that he didn't think the information helped any theory.

But then - I'm certain he was unaware that officially, the embassy only found out about Oswald's wedding 8 days AFTER his chance encounter with the US official.

[Tim Gratz]

Greg, I do not understand why you thought I was joking?

Do you realize your article says you discussed it with Loren Hall? When you must have meant Graham.

I assumed you would be interested in the error so you could correct it. And believe me the error is no reflection on either your research or your writing skills.

[Greg Parker]

Greg, are you upset that I spotted an obvious but inconsequential error in your article?

No, Tim, I'm not upset. I thought you were making a joke. I even skimmed the article a couple of times to check just in case, and failed to catch any error.

It was only after seeing what you wrote above that I realized you were serious, and this time used the browser search to locate it. Thanks for pointing it out (really), but next time can you please just say something like, "Greg, I spotted an error in your article. It is... blah blah...". At least then, I'll know you're serious and not merely making a lame joke.

As for what I wrote... I couldn't help but notice (as others have in the past) how the pages were filling up with your contributions. What I wrote was coming regardless of anything you did or didn't do to upset me.

In short... the Devil made me do it.

I'm sure you understand...

[Tim Gratz]

Greg, I know I do joke too often and it can be difficult to tell when I am being facetious. I also agree my jokes sometimes are not that funny--I am no Ron Ecker, that is for sure!

But as I stated above, I simply made reference to five new materials four relating to the assassination and one merely JFK trivia.

Re your article, I repeat it is MOST interesting and I sure do not know what it means! Maybe another member will come up with an idea.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

On the subject of Lee Oswald's Soviet sojourn, this from today's New York Times:

The New York Times

Printer Friendly Format Sponsored By

November 14, 2007

Letter by Oswald Is Found With Late Senator’s Papers

By JAMES BARRON

The box had sat untouched in the attic of a Washington house until recently, when the sale of the house forced some cleaning out, some poking around in long-overlooked places.

Inside the box was a manila file folder headed: “Lee Harvey Oswald.”

Inside the folder was a handwritten letter that Oswald had sent from Russia, complaining that the Soviet Union would not grant him an exit visa to the United States. It was addressed to Senator John Tower of Texas, who had lived in the house with his second wife in the 1980s.

The other items in the folder are all typewritten — letters from Mr. Tower to the State Department, letters from the American consul in Moscow to Oswald, letters from the State Department to Mr. Tower, and brief memorandums from Mr. Tower’s staff after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy as Mr. Tower defended himself against the impression that he had helped clear the way for Oswald’s return to this country.

A Texas company plans to open an online auction of the items, perhaps as early as today. The company, EasySale, maintains that the letters are originals, not copies like the ones that are among Mr. Tower’s papers at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Tex. A handwriting expert hired by the company to examine the Oswald letter concluded that the tight script was Oswald’s.

The Oswald letter to Mr. Tower, who died in 1991, is undated but was widely quoted after the Kennedy assassination and again in the Warren Commission report in 1964.

It began as an appeal from a constituent: “My name is Lee Harvey Oswald, 22, of Fort Worth up till October 1959,” when, he wrote, he had gone to the Soviet Union “for a residential stay.”

After explaining his visa problem, Oswald wrote, “I beseech you, Senator Tower, to rise [sic] the question of holding by the Soviet Union of a citizen of the U.S., against his will and expressed desires!!”

According to the Warren Commission report, a caseworker in Mr. Tower’s office forwarded the letter to the State Department under a cover letter that was “machine signed by the Senator.”

A copy of the cover letter was in the attic folder, and made clear that Mr. Tower’s office was simply passing along Oswald’s plea. “I do not know Mr. Oswald or any of the facts concerning his reasons for visiting the Soviet Union; nor what action, if any, this government can or should take on his behalf,” the letter said.

Mr. Tower is known to have given the file to the Warren Commission for copying, but the originals were considered missing, said Kathryn Stallard, the archivist of the John Tower Library at Southwestern. “We have all been looking for this,” Ms. Stallard said.

EasySale’s chairman and chief executive, David J. Edmondson, said that the house, in the Kalorama section of Washington, had been owned by Mr. Tower’s second wife, Lilla Burt Cummings Tower, a Washington lawyer, who died in 1993. Mr. Edmondson said she and Mr. Tower lived in the house in the early years of the Reagan administration. They divorced in 1987, and two years later, when the first President George Bush nominated Mr. Tower to be secretary of defense, her statements about her former husband’s excessive drinking helped cost him the job. Mr. Tower denied the accusations, but the Senate rejected the nomination.

The issue of Oswald’s return to the United States dogged Mr. Tower after the Warren Commission report was released. The file in the attic contained a letter that Mr. Tower wrote to Secretary of State Dean Rusk in March 1964, as well as Rusk’s reply: “It is not now, and has not in the past been, the position of the State Department that Mr. Oswald was allowed to return to this country as a result of your forwarding to the Department Mr. Oswald’s letter to you.”

Mr. Edmondson described EasySale as “an online consignment company” that picks up items worth at least $50 that people no longer want. “This is certainly unusual,” he said. “This is unusual versus the average things people have laying around their house.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/washingt...UuQ3IfmexmXg0Dg

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

(M)y jokes sometimes are not that funny--I am no Ron Ecker, that is for sure!

[...]

_____________________________________

Who said Ron Ecker is funny?

_____________________________________

Edited November 16, 2007 by Thomas Graves

[William Kelly]

On the subject of Lee Oswald's Soviet sojourn, this from today's New York Times:

Thanks JRC for giving Greg's proposition serious consideration.

BK

The New York Times

Printer Friendly Format Sponsored By

November 14, 2007

Letter by Oswald Is Found With Late Senator's Papers

By JAMES BARRON

The box had sat untouched in the attic of a Washington house until recently, when the sale of the house forced some cleaning out, some poking around in long-overlooked places.

Inside the box was a manila file folder headed: "Lee Harvey Oswald."

Inside the folder was a handwritten letter that Oswald had sent from Russia, complaining that the Soviet Union would not grant him an exit visa to the United States. It was addressed to Senator John Tower of Texas, who had lived in the house with his second wife in the 1980s.

The other items in the folder are all typewritten — letters from Mr. Tower to the State Department, letters from the American consul in Moscow to Oswald, letters from the State Department to Mr. Tower, and brief memorandums from Mr. Tower's staff after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy as Mr. Tower defended himself against the impression that he had helped clear the way for Oswald's return to this country.

A Texas company plans to open an online auction of the items, perhaps as early as today. The company, EasySale, maintains that the letters are originals, not copies like the ones that are among Mr. Tower's papers at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Tex. A handwriting expert hired by the company to examine the Oswald letter concluded that the tight script was Oswald's.

The Oswald letter to Mr. Tower, who died in 1991, is undated but was widely quoted after the Kennedy assassination and again in the Warren Commission report in 1964.

It began as an appeal from a constituent: "My name is Lee Harvey Oswald, 22, of Fort Worth up till October 1959," when, he wrote, he had gone to the Soviet Union "for a residential stay."

After explaining his visa problem, Oswald wrote, "I beseech you, Senator Tower, to rise [sic] the question of holding by the Soviet Union of a citizen of the U.S., against his will and expressed desires!!"

According to the Warren Commission report, a caseworker in Mr. Tower's office forwarded the letter to the State Department under a cover letter that was "machine signed by the Senator."

A copy of the cover letter was in the attic folder, and made clear that Mr. Tower's office was simply passing along Oswald's plea. "I do not know Mr. Oswald or any of the facts concerning his reasons for visiting the Soviet Union; nor what action, if any, this government can or should take on his behalf," the letter said.

Mr. Tower is known to have given the file to the Warren Commission for copying, but the originals were considered missing, said Kathryn Stallard, the archivist of the John Tower Library at Southwestern. "We have all been looking for this," Ms. Stallard said.

EasySale's chairman and chief executive, David J. Edmondson, said that the house, in the Kalorama section of Washington, had been owned by Mr. Tower's second wife, Lilla Burt Cummings Tower, a Washington lawyer, who died in 1993. Mr. Edmondson said she and Mr. Tower lived in the house in the early years of the Reagan administration. They divorced in 1987, and two years later, when the first President George Bush nominated Mr. Tower to be secretary of defense, her statements about her former husband's excessive drinking helped cost him the job. Mr. Tower denied the accusations, but the Senate rejected the nomination.

The issue of Oswald's return to the United States dogged Mr. Tower after the Warren Commission report was released. The file in the attic contained a letter that Mr. Tower wrote to Secretary of State Dean Rusk in March 1964, as well as Rusk's reply: "It is not now, and has not in the past been, the position of the State Department that Mr. Oswald was allowed to return to this country as a result of your forwarding to the Department Mr. Oswald's letter to you."

Mr. Edmondson described EasySale as "an online consignment company" that picks up items worth at least $50 that people no longer want. "This is certainly unusual," he said. "This is unusual versus the average things people have laying around their house."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/washingt...UuQ3IfmexmXg0Dg

[Greg Parker]

It seems the wedding may have actually been the second time the embassy had information prior to what would later be claimed.

From Peter Wronski's site:

A KGB report released in 1999, also makes note of this event but with an astonishing detail:

"In the building where Oswald was staying, one other American was receiving treatment at the same time. This person was visited by a friend, a staff member of the U.S. Embassy. The latter took an interest in Oswald and asked whether he was registered at the U.S. Embassy and what had happened to him. Oswald, according to him, did not tell him anything.

"On October 24, the Embassy called and asked when Oswald would be discharged from the hospital."

Oswald in Moscow

A Marraige of Connivance?