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Dr. Costella's smoking gun:


Jack White

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Pre 313: These have nothing to do directly with the limo.

In Muchmore, there are 5 lead cycle cops that turn from Main onto Houston. 3 in alignment, followed by 2.

In Zapruder, we see the last of the lead cycles in front, followed by the the trailing 2. My guess is the other 2 lead cycles are already farther down Elm. (Total of 5 still).

Post 313:

In Zapruder, no cycles ahead of the limo.

In Nix, no cycles ahead as the limo takes off and Nix's film ends down Elm.

In Bell, 1 cycle on the southside of Elm, as the Limo is near the underpass and QM passes the southside cycle. 3 cycles are

in their position as we see them in McIntire, also.

In Daniels, we see the cycle that we see in Bell.

In McIntire, we see the 3 that are in Bell, the 1 on the south side of Elm in Bell, and another on the North side.

I believe Chaney would have to be this one on the North side in McIntire, for this to pan out.

Lumpkin says " then Chaney rode UP to Curry" and we were still STOPPED at that time.

Sounds like the McIntire photo starts to depict this.

Chaney on his way up to Curry with Lumpkin and the other two waiting.

Of course this has to happen after everyone has passed the underpass.

Any photos of the limo/QM/Curry car stopped after the underpass to give Chaney time to catch up?

Otherwise the story is hogwash or the photos are wrong. imo

chris

Chris...the premise is that THE FILMS HAVE BEEN ALTERED TO REMOVE THINGS.

Therefore, careful listing of what the films show is interesting but not helpful in

studying the premise. The films do not depict what happened, but only conform

to the official story.

The premise proposes that the films (Zapruder, Nix, any others):

1. Remove some of the lead motorcycles turning onto Elm.

2. Remove lead car (Curry et al) turning onto Elm.

3. Remove the limo's wide turn turning onto Elm.

4. Remove the limo's initial sequence on Elm.

5. Remove information about the gunshots.

6. Remove Hill and Moorman in the street.

7. Remove the limo stop and reacceleration.

8. Remove Chaney's accelleration to the lead car.

9. Remove the location of the lead car during shooting.

10. Remove post shooting activity.

Therefore, if any or all of the above took place, AS MANY TESTIFIED,

then studying WHAT REMAINS does not tell us what really happened.

Jack

Thanks Jack,

I understand and agree.

My point was to leave no outlets for the official story, thus supporting what Dr. Costella has discovered.

In other words, When/Where EXACTLY does Chaney talk to Curry?

Quote from Chaney:

"I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital, and he had Parkland standing by. I went on up ahead of the – to notify the officer that was leading the escort that he had been hit and we’re going to have to move out."

Initially, I considered this statement somewhat vague.

He doesn't say WHEN he went ahead of the limo.

But, he does say that after talking to Curry, he went up to notify the lead escort officer.

So, at no point was he ever BEHIND the limo.

Therefore, the existing films/photos discredit themselves and support Dr.Costella.

chris

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  • 4 weeks later...
I hope John will add to this thread, now that he has "released" his smoking gun.

In case you did not hear him explain it on Dr. Jim's Dynamic Duo internet radio

show last nght, he presents UNIMPEACHABLE WITNESSES (police chief, secret

service chief, policemen, etc) who describe an innocuous event (at the time) all

verifying that MOTORCOP CHENEY IMMEDIATELY RODE FORWARD IN THE

MOTORCADE TO INFORM THOSE IN THE LEAD CAR OF THE SHOOTING.

Extant films and photos DO NOT SHOW CHENEY GOING FORWARD as described.

There is no reason for anyone to lie about Cheney's ride, THEREFORE THE FILMS

AND PHOTOS ARE NECESSARILY FORGED. All describe the actions of Cheney

very consistently and believeably.

Any jury in the world would accept this testimony over questionable photos.

Jack

For the benefit of those without the Richard Trask book cited by John Costella, here is the relevant extract:

That Day in Dallas: The Photographers Capture on Film The Day President Kennedy Died (Danvers, Mass: Yeoman Press, expanded edition, 2000), p.115 & p.119:

At about this time Bill Lord of ABC News did a brief interview of Chaney, recording his activities for a broadcast over WFAA television. Chaney recalled of the motorcade incident:

“I was riding on the right rear fender. We had proceeded west on Elm Street at approximately 15 to 20 miles per hour. We heard the first shot. I thought it was a motorcycle backfiring and, uh, I looked back over to the left and also President Kennedy looked back over his left shoulder. Then the, uh, second shot came, well then I looked back just in time by the second bullet. He slumped forward into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap, and uh, it was apparent to me that we’re being fired upon. I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital, and he had Parkland standing by. I went on up ahead of the – to notify the officer that was leading the escort that he had been hit and we’re going to have to move out. [The shot,] it was back over my right shoulder” (24).”

(24) Bill Lord interview of James Chaney for WFAA-TV, 11/22/63.

http://www.jfk-assassination.com/warren/wch/vol7/page345.php

Warren Commission Hearings: Vol. 7, p.345

Testimony of Forrest V. Sorrels

Mr. Stern: Now, did you recognize it at the time as a shot?

Mr. Sorrels: I felt it was, because it was too sharp for a backfire of an automobile. And, to me, it appeared a little bit too loud for a firecracker.

I just said, "What's that?" And turned around to look up on this terrace part there, because the sound sounded like it came from the back and up in that direction.

At that time, I did not look back up to the building, because it was way back in the back.

Within about 3 seconds, there were two more similar reports. And I said, "Let's get out of here" and looked back, all the way back, then, to where the President's car was, and I saw some confusion, movement there, and the car just seemed to lunch forward.

And, in the meantime, a motorcycle officer had run up on the right-hand side and the chief yelled to him, "Anybody hurt?"

He said, "Yes."

He said, "Lead us to the hospital."

And the chief took his microphone and told them to alert the hospital, and said, "Surround the building." He didn't say what building. He just said, "Surround the building." And by that time we had gotten almost in under the underpass, and the President's car had come up and was almost abreast of us.

When I saw them get so close, I said, "Let's get out quick," or "Get going fast," or something to that effect. In other words, I didn't want them to pass us, because I knew we were supposed to be in front.

And that is when they floor-boarded the accelerator on the police car and we got out in front. And someone yelled loudly to go to the nearest hospital.

http://www.jfk-assassination.com/warren/wch/vol4/page353.php

Warren Commission Hearings: Vol. 4, p.353

Testimony of Winston G. Lawson

Mr. Lawson: The pilot car was up ahead of us, so appeared other things I recall noting a police officer pulled up in a motorcycle alongside of us, and mentioned that the President had been hit.

http://www.jfk-assassination.com/warren/wch/vol12/page28.php

Warren Commission Hearings: Vol. 12, p.28

Testimony of Chief Jesse E. Curry

Well, on November 22, I was in the lead car of the Presidential caravan. With me were Secret Service Winston Lawson and Forrest Sorrels, and the sheriff of Dallas County, Bill Decker, and we were nearing the triple underpass in the western part of Dallas, and which is near Stemmons Express-way-it was necessary for us to move to Elm Street in order to get on the Stemmons Expressway to get the President's caravan down to the Trade Mart where they were going to have a luncheon.

I heard a sharp report. We were near the railroad yards at this time, and I didn't know--I didn't know exactly where this report came from, whether it was above us or where, but this was followed by two more reports, and at that time I looked in my rear view mirror and I saw some commotion in the President's caravan and realized that probably something was wrong, and it seemed to be speeding up, and about this time a motorcycle officer, I believe it was Officer Chaney rode up beside us and I asked if something happened back there and he said, "Yes," and I said, "Has somebody been shot?" And he said, "I think so." So, I then ordered him to take us to Parkland Hospital which was the nearest hospital, so we took the President's caravan then to Parkland Hospital and they were the President, the Vice President and the Governor--were taken into the hospital and I remained at the hospital for--oh--some hour or so.

http://www.jfk-assassination.com/warren/wch/vol4/page161.php

Warren Commission Hearings: Vol. 4, p.161

Testimony of Jesse Edward Curry

I don't believe so, I am not sure. I am not positive. Because they were in pretty rapid succession. But after I noticed some commotion in the President's car and a motorcycle officer ran up aside of me and I asked him what had happened and he said shots had been fired, and I said, "Has the President been hit or has the President's party been hit? And he said, "I am sure they have."

I said, "Take us to the hospital immediately," and I got on the radio and I told them to notify Parkland Hospital to stand by for an emergency, and this is approximately, I would say, perhaps a couple of miles or so to Parkland Hospital from this, and we went to Parkland and I notified them to have them to be standing by for an emergency, and we went out there under siren escort and went into the emergency entrance.

As I recall, I got out of the car and rushed to the emergency entrance and told them to bring the stretchers out, and they loaded the President…

http://www.jfk-assassination.com/warren/wch/vol3/page266.php

Warren Commission Hearings: Vol. 3, p.266

Testimony of Marrion L. Baker

Mr. Belin: Did you talk to any of the other officers who were in or about the President's vehicle at the time of the shooting?

Mr. Baker: Yes, sir; I talked to several of them and all of them had kind of had the same story, you know. It had to come from above and behind.

Mr. Belin: When did you talk to these officers, like Officer Martin?

Mr. Baker: That was--I didn't talk to him until we got back to the city hall, which we got off, we were supposed to get off at 3 o'clock that day, we got off around 4 the same time, they called us all in together.

Mr. Belin: What other officers did you talk to and what did they say that you remember?

Mr. Baker: I talked to Jim Chaney, and he made the statement that the two shots hit Kennedy first and then the other one hit the Governor.

Mr. Belin: Where was he?

Mr. Baker: He was on the right rear of the car or to the side, and then at that time the chief of police, he didn't know anything about this, and he moved up and told him, and then that was during the time that the Secret Service men were trying to get in the car, and at the time, after the shooting, from the time the first shot rang out, the car stopped completely, pulled to the left and stopped.

http://www.jfk-assassination.com/warren/wch/vol6/page294.php

Warren Commission Hearings: Vol.6, p.294

Testimony of Bobby W. Hargis

Mr. Hargis: Yes; when President Kennedy straightened back up in the car the bullet him in the head, the one that killed him and it seemed like his head exploded, and I was splattered with blood and brain, and kind of a bloody water. It wasn't really blood. And at that time the Presidential car slowed down. I heard somebody say, "Get going," or "get going,"----

Mr. Stern: Someone inside---

Mr. Hargis: I don't know whether it was the Secret Service car, and I remembered seeing Officer Chaney. Chaney put his motor in first gear and accelerated up to the front to tell them to get everything out of the way, that he was coming through, and that is when the Presidential limousine shot off, and I stopped and got off my motorcycle and ran to the right-hand side of the street, behind the light pole.

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http://www.jfk-assassination.com/warren/wch/vol6/page294.php

Warren Commission Hearings: Vol.6, p.294

Testimony of Bobby W. Hargis

Mr. Hargis: Yes; when President Kennedy straightened back up in the car the bullet him in the head, the one that killed him and it seemed like his head exploded, and I was splattered with blood and brain, and kind of a bloody water. It wasn't really blood. And at that time the Presidential car slowed down. I heard somebody say, "Get going," or "get going,"----

Mr. Stern: Someone inside---

Mr. Hargis: I don't know whether it was the Secret Service car, and I remembered seeing Officer Chaney. Chaney put his motor in first gear and accelerated up to the front to tell them to get everything out of the way, that he was coming through, and that is when the Presidential limousine shot off, and I stopped and got off my motorcycle and ran to the right-hand side of the street, behind the light pole.

There are at least two versions - significantly different in key respects - of this interview, but it nevertheless offers early print confirmation of the highlighted point:

“Motorcade Cop Tells How It Happened,” Sunday News (New York), 24 November 1963, p.25:

Dallas, Nov. 23 (Special) - B. W. Hargis, 31, Dallas motorcycle patrolman who was riding in President Kennedy’s motorcade, gave this account today of the assassination:

“We turned left onto Elm St. off Houston, about half a block from where it happened. I was right alongside the rear fender on the left hand side of the President’s car, near Mrs. Kennedy.

When I heard the first explosion, I knew it was a shot. I thought that Gov. Connally had been hit when I saw him turn toward the President with a real surprised look.

Splattered With Blood

“The President then looked like he was bent over or that he was leaning toward the Governor, talking to him.

As the President straightened back up, Mrs. Kennedy turned toward him, and that was when he got hit in the side of his head, spinning it around.

I was splattered with blood.

Then I felt something hit me. It could have been concrete or something, but I thought at first I might have been hit.

Then I saw the limousine stop, and I parked my motorcycle at the side of the road, got off and drew my gun.

And They Took Off

“Then this Secret Service agent (in the President’s car) got his wits about him and they took off. The motorcycle officer on the right side of the car was Jim Chaney. He immediately went forward and announced to the chief that the President had been shot.”

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The solution to this supposed conundrum is actually quite simple. Chaney says he was riding to the right of the limo. This is presumably the side he would have passed it on. Zapruder was also to the right and for 3 - 4 seconds (roughly between the head shot and Clint Hill jumping on the bumper [17 – 21 secs into the video linked below]) much of that side of the car was obscured (see still below). Since Zapruder was shooting down from higher up many object closer to him, even those higher off the ground than the side of the limo (like motorcycle cops) would have been out of view (see diagram below).

Smokinggun18secondscrop.jpg18 seconds into the linked video.

Smokinggun.jpgNo, computer graphics isn’t my forte!

If some wants to actually crunch the numbers on this they would have know 1) how tall Chaney would have been on his bike 2) the height of the limo 3) the elevation of Zapruder’s camera compared to the roadbed 4) the distance between the

limo and the curb.

Three to four seconds is more than enough time for him to have passed the “x-100” which according to the page linked below was 21 feet (6.4 meters) long. If Chaney only averaged 10 mph (16 kph) faster than the limo he would have been 14.7 feet per second (fps) or 4.44 meters per second faster. Times three and he could have gone 44.1 feet (13.44 meters) relative to the car more than double its length. The width of the field of view was actually less than that because Zapruder had zoomed to the point where it was narrower than the length of the limo (see still above)

http://www.legacydiecast.com/xq/asp/id.YM24048/qx/review.htm

Stabilized Z-film used for time references above:

Ironiclly I think this video was made using the version stabilized by Costella himself so he can’t really complain about provenence.

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Compare the writing skills of the "Colby" who manifests below with other, shall we say less impressive examples of "his" literary skills.

The typos and other minor failings on this page seem choreographed to balance otherwise well-developed and relatively complex sentence structures and narrative flow, sophistic though the latter surely is.

Artful, wouldn't you say?

Charles

By Mod (Burton): Charles, your 'warning' is considered to be a personal attack. Please do NOT use it.

Edited by Evan Burton
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"Colby" is clearly out of his element here. Later frames of the "Z film" show

the Curry lead car about to enter the underpass, and no sign of a motorcycle.

Also other images show the limo exiting the underpass, and no sign of a motorcycle.

So either the images are altered or the witnesses are all lying; take your pick.

Jack

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Compare the writing skills of the "Colby" who manifests below with other, shall we say less impressive examples of "his" literary skills.

The typos and other minor failings on this page seem choreographed to balance otherwise well-developed and relatively complex sentence structures and narrative flow, sophistic though the latter surely is.

Artful, wouldn't you say?

Charles

By Mod (Burton): Charles, your 'warning' is considered to be a personal attack. Please do NOT use it.

Evan,

Do I at least get points for efficiency? After all, with one simple caveat I'm attacking an entire government agency !

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Compare the writing skills of the "Colby" who manifests below with other, shall we say less impressive examples of "his" literary skills.

The typos and other minor failings on this page seem choreographed to balance otherwise well-developed and relatively complex sentence structures and narrative flow, sophistic though the latter surely is.

Artful, wouldn't you say?

Charles

By Mod (Burton): Charles, your 'warning' is considered to be a personal attack. Please do NOT use it.

Evan,

Do I at least get points for efficiency? After all, with one simple caveat I'm attacking an entire government agency !

What personal attack? A commentary on writing skills is not a personal attack, but a critique.

Jack

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Evan,

Do I at least get points for efficiency? After all, with one simple caveat I'm attacking an entire government agency !

Yes indeed, you do.

Not interested in coming over to the 'dark side', are you? We can always use a man of your talents! ;)

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“Motorcade Cop Tells How It Happened,” Sunday News (New York), 24 November 1963, p.25:

Dallas, Nov. 23 (Special) - B. W. Hargis, 31, Dallas motorcycle patrolman who was riding in President Kennedy’s motorcade, gave this account today of the assassination:...

“Then this Secret Service agent (in the President’s car) got his wits about him and they took off. The motorcycle officer on the right side of the car was Jim Chaney. He immediately went forward and announced to the chief that the President had been shot.”

In the forum thread Why Transcript 1327C is a Fraud (1), I drew attention to a number of the techniques used to further the cover-up deployed by William Manchester in his book Death of a President. In brief: Inconvenient individuals were first divorced from the problematic action, observation, or location, associated with them; and then rendered anonymous. The intention, and the result, at least for the casual student of the case, is to sever cause from effect.

Revealingly, we find Manchester utilising exactly the same methods of deceit in the case of motorcycle outrider James Chaney, and his movements on Elm Street. To understand the necessity for their application to Chaney, a little context is order.

By the time of Death of a President's publication in early 1967 the fabricators of the refashioned Zapruder film were eager to float their cinematic ironclad beyond the dry dock confines of the National Archives and Life magazine’s offices. The problem confronting the refashioned film's manufacturers was how to prepare the water for the release of a film that was entirely incompatible with an ocean of witness testimony.

Enter the picture a select group of authors whose task was to chop out or plain smooth the rough timber of the witness testimony so that if offered no resistance to the filmic behemoth's progress down the slipway. A significant figure within this group of writers was William Manchester. Here’s how he did it in the case of James Chaney.

He begins by introducing Chaney to the text, thus ensuring he cannot be charged with abolishing the police outrider entirely. He even echoes Chaney’s own reported estimate of his distance from the car, thus revealing a familiarity with the motorcop’s testimony that should be borne in mind throughout (2):

“It was comprehensible that Roy Truly should dismiss the first shot a cherry bomb. It was even fathomable that patrolman James M. Chaney, mounted on a motor-cycle six feet from the Lincoln, should think that another machine had backfired. Chaney was an ordinary policeman, not a Presidential bodyguard....” (3)

Six pages later, Manchester divorces Chaney from his action (riding up to the motorcade’s lead car):

“Chief Curry's Ford was equipped with a souped-up engine, but it couldn't match the powerful machines of SS 100 X and Half-back. Kinney was plunging after Greer, and in the darkness of the underpass the three cars nearly collided. Curry careened to the left, Kinney slewed to the right. They were nearly abreast, with the white-faced motor-cycle policeman frantically competing for the little space left. The police chief hadn't heard Kellerman's mayday to Lawson, and he shouted to a motor-cyclist, 'Anybody hurt?' 'Yes,' the man shouted back. Curry radioed his headquarters dispatcher, 'Go to the hospital – Parkland Hospital. Have them stand by.'” (4)

And finally, having rendered Chaney nameless, Manchester sunders cause (Chaney’s journey) from its effect (his appearance at the side of the car containing Curry et al):

“Chief Curry's shout to the motor-cycle policeman [is less comprehensible].”

By the time of Murder From Within seven years later, the truth of Chaney’s progress west on Elm will be subjected to an all together more sophisticated assault. But that, no doubt, is subject for a later posting.

(1) http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...39&hl=1327C

(2) 2WCH43: Mark Lane, citing Chaney’s interview with the Houston Chronicle, 24 November 1963: “six feet.”

(3) William Manchester. The Death of a President: November 20-November 25, 1963 (London: Michael Joseph Ltd., 1967), p.191.

(4) Ibid., p.197.

(5) Ibid., p.201.

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The solution to this supposed conundrum is actually quite simple.

Yup: the film's a fake. As, of course, is any explanation, Len, which can't account for the footage shot from the opposite side of Elm. Angle of filmer's elevation explains Chaney's absence from Nix? Oh dear.

But, please, do crunch the numbers for Z. This should be a hoot!

Paul

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