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The Carlins: there story crumbles


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From WCR- my comments in []

Karen Carlin - stage name: "Little Lynn" - was one of Jack Ruby's stip-tease dancers. She phoned Ruby on the morning of November 24th, 1963, and askedhim to wire her $25 that she needed for rent and groceries. [that is what she testified to. Husband Bruce however, clarified it this way when his turn came: "I do not know for sure that the $25 that we asked for went for rent at that time or whether we kept it and paid it when it was due, or whether it went for groceries or medicine, which we both needed."] BC went on to say, "had she not phoned, Ruby would not have been in downtown Dallas that Sunday morning and almost certainly would not have shot Oswald. [Not true according to Karen. She stated: "Yes. He said, 'It will take me about 20 or 30 minutes to get dressed, and then I will go on down.' And something that he had to do with the dogs' freedom, I think."] After the assassination, Carlin turned up on the lists of "mysterious deaths" - although in fact there was no evidence she was dead. Author John Davis takes the story from there:

.. . . in October 1992, Karen Carlin came back from the dead. She contacted Gary Shaw, director of the JFK Assassination Information Center in Dallas, after almost thirty years living under an assumed identity, and told him she knew of a conspiracy to kill Lee Harvey Oswald, that Ruby told her to phone him Sunday morning and that an hour later he would telegraph her $25, just before shooting Oswald, to establish an alibi to justify his shooting of Oswald as an impulsive act of revenge.

To expand on the bracketed comments above:

********************

By saying he was not sure if the money was kept until the rent was due, BC was clearly indicating the rent was NOT due at that time.

To my mind, this leaves two possibilities:

1) The "medicine" referred to by BC was a euphemism for illicit drugs. From this May '63 DPD document, http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/38/3886-001.gif[/url] we learn that Karen was "addicted to narcotics". IOW, the $25.00 was for drugs.

2) Ruby or someone else asked them to make the call, as per Carlin's '92 confession to Gary Shaw.

Either way, BC was probably fearful that the FBI had checked when the rent was paid, and decided to "confess" that the money perhaps, wasn't for rent, after all.

**********************

Karen stated Ruby told her he had to go downtown, anyway, and she said she thought it "had to do with the dogs' freedom". It is interesting that the WC has recorded her meaning as "dogs'" (indicating more than one) rather than "dog's"... indicating just one. Ruby allegedly had Sheba with him. His other dogs were at the club and would have been looked after by Crafard or Armstrong whilst the club was closed. Armstrong himself gave a different account to the HSCA to that which he gave the WC as to what happened with Sheba. He told the WC Ruby asked him from jail to find the dog. Armstrong then sent Joy Dale to pick it up at the pound. To the HSCA he said he could not remember whether he picked the dog up from the police or from the Carousel... hinting however, it was probably the latter, since he didn't drive, and he could not recall anyone giving him a lift to police HQ. In the meantime, Joy Dale has denied she picked the dog up. We know the car wasn't locked... but it turned out to be a warm day...were the windows wound down enough for Sheba to get some air?

Or was Sheba even in the car at all?

****************

Ruby did indeed request that Karen phone him back on Sunday. The only thing that stops this being totally suspicious is the original denials that he had specified she phone at any particular time. As to her other claim, KC aka Little Lynn was certainly in a position to know of any conspiracy.

Last words on Karen: Read the above-mentioned DPD report and her WC testimonies. She was once on "The Circuit"... drugs and prostitution (Note: Rose Cheramie was also "on The Circuit."). She had previously worked at the Cellar, then the Theatre Lounge and it was whilst there, her husband introduced her to Ruby because she was not happy where she was.

Now read this 4 page report:

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/38/3886-001.gif

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/11/1152-002.gif

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/11/1152-003.gif

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/11/1152-004.gif

This shows that she was an informant for the FW police dept in several cases. But just as interesting is the information on page 4 that she once worked as an instructor at Arthur Murray's Dance studio, and that a (male) instructor from AM's was once in the Carousel Club trying to obtain a half share in it.

Who this was is unknown to me - but I'll hazard a guess it was one of the guys from CUSA...

From CE1044

"Larry and I are also about to gain 20% interest in a private club... we have made contact with some unemployed Arthur Murray instructors (girls). We have made an arrangement with the girls whereby they will go to work in the Du Charme Lounge as 'Hostesses'... the girls get a commission on all they hustle..." But as Weissman said in his testimony, the Du Charme was not a viable club to buy, and they were looking elsewhere... and Ruby had put the word out he was looking for a partner in another club.

Was there another way Karen could have gotten her "medicine" money? Seems so.

From this report we find that she and Bruce were running a brothel from their residence.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/11/1171-001.gif

And according to her grandmother, who lodged a missing persons report on her, she usually carried large amounts of cash.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/11/1166-001.gif

As for Bruce... he was pimping at the Lounge Bar when he met Karen. To have known Ruby, he was probably pimping at the Carousel as well. Andrew Armstrong admitted to the HSCA that pimps were in the club from time to time. Another avenue of raising funds for himself was selling drugs stolen from the drug companies he worked for.

He was in Houston on 21nov63 (same day JFK was there), and from there, traveled to New Orleans on the day of the assassination. This was apparently with Jerry Bunker servicing motels for the Motel Drug Service. NO and Shreveport were sure popular places to be that weekend. Walker and LBJ confidente "Bully" Bullion were among a number of others who made the trek. These trips were not brought out in his first deposition. Indeed, both he and Karen hinted during their first depositions that Bruce had not worked for a little while due to his car being "out of commission". This helped bolster their claim as to why they were so short of cash. In his second stint before the commission though, BC said he was always picked up by Bunker for these road trip... and that he always made them with Bunker.

If BC was so short of money, why did he not ask for his commission from his employer? And why did the Carlins need $5.00 to get back to Fort Worth, anyway? They had been driven to Dallas by Tammi True, and she drove them home. If the

$5.00 was needed to buy petrol (that's gas to you guyd in the US), why wasn't this ever stated?

The story of needing money was fabricated in order to give Ruby a legitimate reason to be in the vicinity of the transfer. It really is that simple.

greg

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Greg,

I was reading through the WC testimony of Jesse Strong. He was the Fort Worth Western Union employee who gave Karen Bennett the $25.00 on 11/24/63 that Jack Ruby sent her. When she arrived to get her money, she presented a California drivers license as identification.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/strong.htm

Mr. STRONG. I actually paid the $25 to Karen Bennett when she came into the office, approximately at 3:20 p.m., on the afternoon of November 24.

Mr. HUBERT. In what way do you identify this document? Is there anything on it?

Mr. STRONG. Yes, I asked her for identification and she presented her California driver's license No. 768114, and description, black hair, blue eyes, height 5 feet 2. Weight 105.

In 1963, Karen was 19 years old, which means that she would have to have gotten her CA drivers license in the last 3-4 years.

Another oddity about picking this money up...

Though she called Jack Ruby at least twice for the money (once on Sat. night and once on Sun morning) for rent and groceries, she said that she called JR about 10:00AM on Sun. morning and Jack said that he would go downtown and send it Western Union, she and Bruce didn't go pick it up until 3:20 in the afternoon.

Karen said that she and Bruce took a bus to downtown Fort Worth, but Strong said that Karen was alone. Maybe Bruce was outside pacing the sidewalk.

You might also want to read, I think it is a Secret Service report of an interview with Little Lynn by Roger Warner. Very instructive.

It's also interesting to compare the testimony of Bruce Carlin against Jack Ruby about how long they were in the car together on Friday night.

Steve Thomas

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Hi Steve,

As I said, Karen had been on what the DPD called "The Circuit" -- a multi-state, prostitution and drug ring, so I'm not totally surprised by the Californian driver's licence. Do you see something of significance with it? Do you believe, for instance, it was someone other than KC?

This is from the May '63 police report I linked to: "Officer Cox describes this girl as being a post[it]ute, which (sic) he knows went on the Circuit, which is a group of prostitutes who travel from place to place over the United States."

As a sidebar, it is my belief that the Circuit supplied the "amateurs" for places like the Carousel -- which is why there is no record of Rose Cheramie working there -- I believe she performed as an "amateur" whilst on the Circuit. Furthermore, I believe Bruce's job for the Hotel Drug Company probably had him traipsing around the place with the Circuit supplying drugs and acting as pimp.

Regarding what the money was supposedly for... Bruce got nervous because he knew the FBI had questioned the landlord, so he blamed Karen for the rent story, and said it was more likely for groceries and medicine. None of those reasons hold water.

Here's what I think is Karen's first version of when she picked the money up:

"I picked the money up at Western Union 10 minutes after we heard he had shot Oswald."

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/11/1152-003.gif

She said in testimony that she heard about the Oswald shooting soon after she had spoken to Ruby... but also claimed she did this and that and the other thing before leaving to pick the money up - indicating it was a lot longer than 10 minutes...

You said,

You might also want to read, I think it is a Secret Service report of an interview with Little Lynn by Roger Warner. Very instructive.

Is this online somewhere? Not sure if I've seen it before or not...

greg

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Greg,

As I said, Karen had been on what the DPD called "The Circuit" -- a multi-state, prostitution and drug ring, so I'm not totally surprised by the Californian driver's licence. Do you see something of significance with it? Do you believe, for instance, it was someone other than KC?

No, it's just that there is a background to Karen the we don't know about.

This is from the May '63 police report I linked to: "Officer Cox describes this girl as being a post[it]ute, which (sic) he knows went on the Circuit, which is a group of prostitutes who travel from place to place over the United States."

I have read the American Guild of Variety Artists hearings before Congress in 1961 I think it was.

It was a sordid business. Those guys kept those women in a virtual white slavery ring.

You said,

You might also want to read, I think it is a Secret Service report of an interview with Little Lynn by Roger Warner. Very instructive.

Is this online somewhere? Not sure if I've seen it before or not...

You can read Roger Warner's affidavit of his interview with Little Lynn here:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/warner_r.htm

Steve Thomas

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  • 13 years later...

Which part of Little Lynn's interview with S.S. agent Warner do we believe more.

The first part with her claim:

At the beginning of the above interview Mrs. Carlin was highly agitated and was reluctant to make any statement to me. "She stated to me that she was under the impression that Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby and other individuals unknown to her, were involved in a plot to assassinate President Kennedy and that she would be killed if she gave any information to the authorities."

It was only through the aid of her husband that she would give any information at all. She twisted in her chair, stammered in her speech, and seemed on the point of hysteria.

Or the later art of her interview:

Later, toward the end of the interview, which lasted about 45 minutes, Mrs. Carlin became much calmer. She stated that "she had no memory of Oswald whatsoever until she had heard Mr. Dewar's statement repeated on television. Also that she had no information in her possession which indicated that Ruby was involved in a plot to assassinate President Kennedy." She did ask that all information she had related be kept confidential to prevent retaliation against her in case there was a plot afoot. She stated that she did not wish to get involved in the matter at hand.

It's remarkable to me that Little Lynn would make such a bold and incriminating statement about Ruby and Oswald being part of a JFK plot right off the top of her head with her first interview.

Obviously, if she didn't know this for sure, she at least considered it with enough belief to state this to her first official government agent interviewer.

Little Lynn always mentioned she didn't want to state her true feelings about the whole affair. She was fearful. She was caught carrying a gun at Jack Ruby's trial. That's how fearful she was regards concern for her personal safety.  Why be fearful if she totally thought that Jack Ruby just did what he did out of innocent well meaning love for Jackie and outrage over JFK's killing.

Karen " Little Lynn" Bennett knew more than she ever let on. And she knew how deadly serious people were who were connected to Jack Ruby.

I believe she had been already been used as a prostitute and probably been pressured to have sex with members of the mob that controlled this circuit she was placed in.

Edited by Joe Bauer
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  • 5 months later...
On 7/18/2004 at 7:30 AM, Greg Parker said:

Hi Steve,

 

You said, " You might also want to read, I think it is a Secret Service report of an interview with Little Lynn by Roger Warner. Very instructive."

Is this online somewhere? Not sure if I've seen it before or not...

greg

I have looked in vain for Roger Warner's December 12, 1963 interview of Karen "Little Lynn" Lynn Bennett (Carlin).

For the life of me, I can't seem to find it.

 

Steve Thomas

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On 7/18/2004 at 2:22 PM, Steve Thomas said:

 

You can read Roger Warner's affidavit of his interview with Little Lynn here:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/warner_r.htm

Steve Thomas

Okay, I think I understand.

Warner's Memorandum wasn't dated December 12th, it was dated December 2nd. His affidavit was wrong. The interview actually took place on November 24th. See below for his two-page report. His actual Report doesn't mention Karen Carlin as being "... highly agitated and was reluctant to make any statement to me. She stated to me that she was under the impression that Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby and other individuals unkown to her, were involved in a plot to assassinate President Kennedy and that she would be killed if she gave any information to the authorities. It was only through the aid of her husband that she would give any information at all. She twisted in her chair, stammered in her speech, and seemed on the point of hysteria."  I wonder why his 8/4/64 Affidavit was so different from his 12/2/63 Report

From Warner's affidavit:

" The information related by Mrs. Carlin was reported by me in a Memorandum Report dated December 12, 1963, from notes I had taken during the interview."

 

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/44-24016/44-24016%20Volume%2029/44-24016-29B.pdf

Page 11

Set out below is the identity of the documents obtained from the USSS including the pertinent USSS documentation number, a brief description of what the item relates to, as well as the identity of the Bureau supervisor to whom the particular item was directed.

Item 423 Two page USSS report of SA Roger C. Warner dated 12-2-63, at Dallas re interview of Karen Carlin, dancer at Carousel Club.( W. L. Martindale)

 

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/44-24016/44-24016%20References/44-24016%20Referral/44-24016%20Referrals%20A.pdf

Page 34

This is a two-page report of an interview of Karen Carlin dated 12/2/1963.

The interview was conducted on 11/24/63

 

Steve Thomas

 

 

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21 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Steve:

 

Were they trying to hide it with the wrong dates?

Jim,

 

No, I don't think so. I think Warner just messed up and nobody caught it. His Affidavit was done 8 months after his two-page Report of his interview with Little Lynn. If anything, you have to wonder why his two-page Report didn't include the observations he made eight months later.

Was his December, 1963 toned down? Or was his August, 1964 Affidavit "embellished"?

 

Steve Thomas

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