Bhutto Murder

[Charles Drago]

VERY Preliminary Thoughts

BK's post speaks to us in terms of our special responsibility to respond with hard-earned wisdom and courage to this and other political assassinations. His reference to events of 9/9/01 is spot-on.

Let's start calmly and with focus.

Was her SUV equipped with security glass and armor?

Yes. Early reports here were along the lines that a last minute decision for one last wave through the sun roof from her armored vehicle cost her her life. This means the assassin just got lucky, being in precisely the right place at precisely the right time.

Charles

Greg,

I shall assume that your tongue is embedded in your cheek on this one.

So who made that last-minute decision?

The question is begged: Who was in the vehicle with Bhutto?

The Rabin template in its broadest form is strongly suggested.

Charles

[Ron Ecker]

The question is begged: Who was in the vehicle with Bhutto?

The Rabin template in its broadest form is strongly suggested.

By his own account, the acting head of her political party was apparently with her in the SUV. He said they saw her fall and "we thought she was unconscious." If he was in fact in the SUV and was not complicit, then the hypothesis that she was shot by someone in the SUV without this person knowing it seems akin to Greer shooting JFK without Jackie or the Connallys knowing it.

If I'm not mistaken, Rabin had no friends or cohorts with him in the car that he entered, only a "bodyguard" and a driver, and he could thus be shot in the car without friendly witnesses.

[Charles Drago]

The question is begged: Who was in the vehicle with Bhutto?

The Rabin template in its broadest form is strongly suggested.

By his own account, the acting head of her political party was apparently with her in the SUV. He said they saw her fall and "we thought she was unconscious." If he was in fact in the SUV and was not complicit, then the hypothesis that she was shot by someone in the SUV without this person knowing it seems akin to Greer shooting JFK without Jackie or the Connallys knowing it.

If I'm not mistaken, Rabin had no friends or cohorts with him in the car that he entered, only a "bodyguard" and a driver, and he could thus be shot in the car without friendly witnesses.

Agreed, Ron.

But is it not too soon to absolve the "acting head of her political party" by taking his word for things? What do we really know about this person who, upon Ms. Bhutto's death, rose to the top? Who was the "we" who saw Bhutto fall and who "thought she was unconscious"?

How long after Rabin's assassination did we learn details about his death car?

I am suggesting NOTHING OTHER THAN KEEPING ALL RATIONAL ANALYSES ON THE TABLE UNTIL WE ARE SUFFICIENTLY INFORMED TO MAKE AT LEAST PRELIMINARY DECISIONS.

And I'm not necessarily suggesting she was "shot by someone in the SUV." (emphasis added) Rather, I submit that we should give strong consideration to the possibility that one or more parties in the vehicle may have been in on the plot and charged with the responsibility to make sure Ms. Bhutto suffered fatal wounds.

Let's try to eliminate these possibilities according to the lessons we've learned over too many years of inquiry into too many similar tragedies.

Charles

Edited December 29, 2007 by Charles Drago

[Mark Stapleton]

After the attempt to kill her a few weeks back, with 139 others dying in that blast, Bhutto must have known she was on borrowed time. She had courage.

Perhaps the assassins wanted to make certain they didn't stuff it up this time.

Edited December 29, 2007 by Mark Stapleton

[Len Colby]

Early reports here were along the lines that a last minute decision for one last wave through the sun roof from her armored vehicle cost her her life. This means the assassin just got lucky, being in precisely the right place at precisely the right time.

Greg,

I shall assume that your tongue is embedded in your cheek on this one.

So who made that last-minute decision?

Presumablly she did.

I don´t if it was luck it seems like she made a habit of waving to the crowds the assassin could have been stalking her for a while

[Len Colby]

Bhutto spoke with David Forst one month ago. In this interview she claimed that Sheikh Omar Saeed killed Osama Bin Laden.

Very interesting.

John

Because of the way she said it the most logical explanation is that she simply misspoke; people have suggested she meant Daniel Pearl whose murder Sheik Mohamed has been accused of. She:

-said this in a very matter of fact way as is she were saying commonly accepted,

- said it in the middle of a list of Sheik Mohamed’s other misdeeds (beheading English tourists etc)

- referred to it as a bad thing why would she think telling people in the west that her opponents were tied to the person who killed OBL indicated they couldn’t be trusted to fight terrorism?

Odd that Frost didn’t ask her any follow up questions, perhaps he wasn’t paying attention.

[Len Colby]

However, one of Miss Bhutto's aide rejected the government's explanation of her death as a "pack of lies".

Telegraph TV: Benazir Bhutto's funeral in Garhi Khuda Bakhsh

Brigadier Javed Cheema, a ministry spokesman, said Miss Bhutto had died from a head wound she sustained when she smashed against the sunroof's lever as she tried to shelter inside the car.

"The lever struck near her right ear and fractured her skull," Mr Cheema said.

But the explanation was ridiculed by Farooq Naik, Miss Bhutto's top lawyer and a senior official in her Pakistan People's Party.

"It is baseless. It is a pack of lies," he said.

"Two bullets hit her, one in the abdomen and one in the head. It was a serious security lapse."

Love to know how a bullet hit her in the abdomen if the shooter was indeed firing from below - and Bhutto was protected from the chest down!

Peter wrote

The very fact that the 'reported' cause of death morphed from:

1] three shots - one to the neck, two to the chest....

From CNN:

Bhutto exhumation okay, Pakistan official says

"There were clear bullet injuries to her head," said [Pakistan People's Party information secretary Sherry] Rehman. "When we bathed her we saw that."

[…]

On Thursday, hours after Bhutto's death, the Pakistani Interior Ministry said she died from a gunshot wound to the neck,

[…]

Dr. Mussadiq Khan of Rawalpindi General Hospital, who treated Bhutto before she was pronounced dead, said she had a large wound on the side of her head consistent with striking or being struck by "something big, with a lot of speed."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/12/2...eath/index.html

I haven’t seen any references to her suffering injuries to her chest or any other references to her being shot or injured in the abdomen or anywhere below the neck.

I presume Naik’s information was 2nd or third hand since it was contradicted by one of the doctors who treated Bhutto and another party official

The acting head of Miss Bhutto's party, Amin Fahim, admitted that she could have survived the blast if she had not stood up through the sunroof of her vehicle to acknowledge her supporters.

"She fell down in the seat and we thought she was unconscious. She could have survived had she been sitting," said Mr Fahim.

Doubt it - see above!

No reason to doubt it see above Fahim also seems to contradict Naik

[Len Colby]

I don't think Al Queda pulled of 9/11 [and the ISI was partly involved in it],

The evidence for this stems from a rather dubious source Indian intelligence which obviously has a lot of animosity towards the ISI which it blames for attack in Kashmir. I imagine Pakistan's new status as a close ally of Washington didn't go down well in Indian military/intelligence circles.

http://www.911myths.com/html/pakistan_s_is...to_9_11_fu.html

I don't think they [Al Queda] did this either...they are a creation of the CIA against the Russians in Afghanistan and other 'efforts' [ie drugs]....

Citation?

[Charles Drago]

Early reports here were along the lines that a last minute decision for one last wave through the sun roof from her armored vehicle cost her her life. This means the assassin just got lucky, being in precisely the right place at precisely the right time.

Greg,

I shall assume that your tongue is embedded in your cheek on this one.

So who made that last-minute decision?

Presumablly she did.

I don´t if it was luck it seems like she made a habit of waving to the crowds the assassin could have been stalking her for a while

Please detail the bases for your presumption.

[Evan Burton]

Re: gunfire...

There was footage shown on TV here where you could see at least one person firing a pistol at her. You could see it right before the assassin detonated.

I'll see if the footage is online somewhere.

[Paul Rigby]

Re: gunfire...

There was footage shown on TV here where you could see at least one person firing a pistol at her. You could see it right before the assassin detonated.

I'll see if the footage is online somewhere.

Try here: http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/...iew#cnnSTCVideo

The video showing the handgun is entitled "Details on how Bhutto died," which is 3 mins 10 secs long.

[Paul Rigby]

Try here: http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/...iew#cnnSTCVideo

The video showing the handgun is entitled "Details on how Bhutto died," which is 3 mins 10 secs long.

Clearer footage on this Indian website: http://broadband.indiatimes.com/videoshow/2660784.cms

[Paul Rigby]

Try here: http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/...iew#cnnSTCVideo

The video showing the handgun is entitled "Details on how Bhutto died," which is 3 mins 10 secs long.

Clearer footage on this Indian website: http://broadband.indiatimes.com/videoshow/2660784.cms

Two stills from video here:

http://www.teeth.com.pk/blog/2007/12/29/mo...fore-the-blast/

This intrigued me, as it seemed eerily reminiscent of something I remember reading on the Colosio assassination in Mexico:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ernational/home

Bhutto aides cast doubt on official account of her death

Reuters and Associated Press

December 29, 2007 at 8:23 AM EST

Ms. Rehman did not see the attacker, and was looking the other way just prior to the attack as she and a colleague suddenly noticed they were surrounded by unfamiliar faces.

"We were seeing people who were unfamiliar suddenly wearing Bhutto badges," she said.

[Len Colby]

Early reports here were along the lines that a last minute decision for one last wave through the sun roof from her armored vehicle cost her her life. This means the assassin just got lucky, being in precisely the right place at precisely the right time.

Greg,

I shall assume that your tongue is embedded in your cheek on this one.

So who made that last-minute decision?

Presumablly she did.

I don´t if it was luck it seems like she made a habit of waving to the crowds the assassin could have been stalking her for a while

Please detail the bases for your presumption.

Who else do you imagine made the decision? Do you think someone in the car told (ordered) her to stand up and wave? Wouldn't that draw suspicion on him or her (unless everyone else in the car was "in on it")? She seems to have been her own boss.

[Evan Burton]

I can't get either of those to work for me; my anti-script / popup-blocker sometimes does this.

The stills from the webpage are NOT from the video I saw on the news. The footage I saw was taken from the left-hand side of the Bhutto vehicle, and you see the gunman on the far right (i.e. just behind the Bhutto vehicle). In the slo-mo version they showed, a hand appears and you can see flame from the pistol as it is fired.