Marry Ferrell Foundation.

[William Plumlee]

Recently new de classified documents have been turned over to the MF Foundation and I have been told they are in process of being catalogued.

Also; I have been told that researcher Jay Harrison's work has been put on disk and will be forth coming. We will see.

[Dawn Meredith]

Recently new de classified documents have been turned over to the MF Foundation and I have been told they are in process of being catalogued.

Also; I have been told that researcher Jay Harrison's work has been put on disk and will be forth coming. We will see.

I WISH this was the case. But this is not happening. Walt Brown is of the opinion that there is a lack of interest.

(I asked about Jay's work in an email yesterday).

With regret,

Dawn

[Bernice Moore]

Hi Dawn:

On another post, today I believe, you related Walt's DVD, over 5000 pages so far......

Is what you have stated above meaning, that there is now no set forthcoming by Walt.....

Imo there certainly is great interest.....

Thanks....B

[Dawn Meredith]

Hi Dawn:

On another post, today I believe, you related Walt's DVD, over 5000 pages so far......

Is what you have stated above meaning, that there is now no set forthcoming by Walt.....

Imo there certainly is great interest.....

Thanks....B

Bernice,

I was not able to get on the forum all day yesterday. I tried early am before court and got that "this page can't be displayed" thing. Same later when I got in. So could not respond to your question til now.

Walt is writing a massive book dealing with the chronology of things related to the JFK assassination. (I believe that is how he has explained it, though he is not going into any detail and it will be only made available to those who get his newsletter, which I do). But none of this involves Jay Harrison's work. It is Jay's research that Walt believes there may be little interest in. Those who knew Jay, or knew of him would totally disagree. He was an amazing deep cover researcher. He won't be found on the net because those who knew him and wished to remain on friendly terms had one rule : Keep his name secret. With very good reason he feared for his life. He also had zero interest in fame. He helped many a researcher. Jay was utterly devoted to justice in the assassination of JFK. Like Tosh Jay was there that day. (He was a cop). He was also mil intel earlier in life. It was there he learned how to do genealogy. So he had the ability- and the fierce determination- to dig deeply into the deep connections and backgrounds of potential players in this case.

I appreciate that Walt is very busy...but....

Dawn

[Charles Drago]

To date we have no response to our requests to Oliver Curme to divulge the whereabouts and condition of Mary Ferrell's original archives. Are they secure? Have they been left intact? Have they been sanitized?

And now Jay Harrison's collections are down the memory hole.

Is anyone else concerned?

[Myra Bronstein]

Hi Dawn:

On another post, today I believe, you related Walt's DVD, over 5000 pages so far......

Is what you have stated above meaning, that there is now no set forthcoming by Walt.....

Imo there certainly is great interest.....

Thanks....B

Bernice,

I was not able to get on the forum all day yesterday. I tried early am before court and got that "this page can't be displayed" thing. Same later when I got in. So could not respond to your question til now.

Walt is writing a massive book dealing with the chronology of things related to the JFK assassination. (I believe that is how he has explained it, though he is not going into any detail and it will be only made available to those who get his newsletter, which I do). But none of this involves Jay Harrison's work. It is Jay's research that Walt believes there may be little interest in. Those who knew Jay, or knew of him would totally disagree. He was an amazing deep cover researcher. He won't be found on the net because those who knew him and wished to remain on friendly terms had one rule : Keep his name secret. With very good reason he feared for his life. He also had zero interest in fame. He helped many a researcher. Jay was utterly devoted to justice in the assassination of JFK. Like Tosh Jay was there that day. (He was a cop). He was also mil intel earlier in life. It was there he learned how to do genealogy. So he had the ability- and the fierce determination- to dig deeply into the deep connections and backgrounds of potential players in this case.

I appreciate that Walt is very busy...but....

Dawn

Dawn,

How can we sign up for Walt's newsletter? Or can we?

If that's the only way to get his book... I want in.

Thx.

Myra

[Terry Mauro]

To date we have no response to our requests to Oliver Curme to divulge the whereabouts and condition of Mary Ferrell's original archives. Are they secure? Have they been left intact? Have they been sanitized?

And now Jay Harrison's collections are down the memory hole.

Is anyone else concerned?

******************************************************

According to a friend, who was there when the deal went down, who would prefer to remain anonymous, all of Ferrell's database was left sitting in a transport container, in Ollie's backyard, uninsulated, and subject to the extremes in seasonal temperature change known to occur in Massachusetts. FWIW

[Rex Bradford]

To date we have no response to our requests to Oliver Curme to divulge the whereabouts and condition of Mary Ferrell's original archives. Are they secure? Have they been left intact? Have they been sanitized?

And now Jay Harrison's collections are down the memory hole.

Is anyone else concerned?

I'd like to try a second time to describe the state of affairs with Mary Ferrell's collection and the Foundation.

As many people may know, I started the History Matters website (www.history-matters.com) and am also Vice-President of the Assassination Archives and Research Center (AARC - www.aarclibrary.org), which Jim Lesar heads. I have for the nearly 3 years now been devoting considerable attention to building the Mary Ferrell Foundation's website, which a few weeks ago passed 750,000 pages of JFK-related documents, along with photos, audio, video, and various special projects. I of course encourage everyone to check it out if you haven't already. All documents and other materials are free for browsing by anyone with an internet connection. We do have $39.95 paid memberships for those doing active research - these memberships are required to do full-text searches, plus other specialized searches, of the archive. But the materials are also well organized and accessible by point-and-click browsing by anyone.

The materials on the site include documents, books, and other materials from Mary Ferrell's collection, which is in the possession of the Foundation and kept intact. However, much more of what we have comes from the AARC. I am the person who chooses what collections to put online and, given very limited resources, in what order. My priority is to put up what I think will be of the greatest use for those studying the JFK case and related topics. The website was never meant to be an archive of Mary's materials only.

It is true that only a portion of Mary's materials have been put online. What we have put online includes hundreds of books (with limited "fair use" search excerpting), several thousand pages of documents, Mary's full Database and her Chronologies, and miscellaneous other materials. What we have not put online are:

* Thousands upon thousands of books. Given that our "fair use limited search" is really limited, it just hasn't been worth the trouble to scan books on early Soviet history and the many other topics Mary had tons of books on. We scanned over 300 of her books, mostly JFK-related, along with about 100 other books she didn't have.

* Dozens of boxes full of newspaper clippings and magazine articles. She was a prolific clipper. Our problem is copyright. While most news sources probably don't care anymore, we haven't been willing to take the chance on this.

* Documents. We have not put up all of Mary's document collection. In some cases, like the Warren Commission Documents, Mary's collection was incomplete and in some disrepair - many missing pages, etc. So we got a microfilm collection and used that instead, and then I went to the National Archives and scanned what was missing from the 1986-era microfilm. Similarly Mary's FBI and CIA files were not very voluminous and massively superceded by the AARC's much larger and more recently acquired collection. I did put up Mary's 1980-era FBI Mexico City file, though I've started a project of getting from the National Archives a much-less-redacted set. I also found a transcript from an HSCA critic's conference and put that online.

* AudioVideo. Mary did have several boxes with audiotapes and videotapes of various kinds. Some of these clearly suffer from the same copyright issues, but not all. It continues to be a goal of mine to go through these and make some available. There are also some folders of slides with the same issues.

* Miscellaneous. There is a stack of phone books from 1963 and other years of that era, which may or may not be of use to anyone at this point, and miscellanous items like that. Mary also received several manuscripts from various people - books that never made it into print.

In general, there is more from Mary's collection that I intend to make available online, though prioritized with other materials from the AARC, National Archives, and other sources. For example, I am going to NARA very shortly to get a copy of Santos Trafficante's HSCA Immunized Testimony, which I discovered last year was withheld in full (after making some inquiries and complaints, I am told that it has now just been released).

In contrast, what I've been able to get from the AARC includes several hundred thousand pages of FBI and CIA documents processed in the late 1990s (read: fewer redactions), Church Committee reports and transcripts of all Church Committee depositions, and much more. I have also obtained a few thousand pages of JCS files directly from the National Archives, as well as cherry-picked documents from the voluminous HSCA Numbered Files, and other misc. collections such as the papers of Capt. Will Fritz, Rockefeller Commission files, and more. We will soon begin processing some new AARC document collections and I'll post here when that begins.

I would not dream of sanitizing materials taken from Mary's collection. I do not own any "black highlighters."

I hope the above overlong response clarifies things a bit. I am always open to input on what materials related to the case would be of most use to people, as the website is intended as a public service. In this contentious matter, I expect criticism on the tone of the writing I do on the website, topics chosen, etc. I would hope that people would recognize the seriousness with which I take my role, however.

Again, www.maryferrell.org is meant to be a useful resource for people who use this forum and others out there. If there are suggestions people have for particular document collections or other resources that you think we should add, please email me at info@maryferrell.org. If you got this far, thanks for your patience in reading this.

Rex Bradford

[Charles Drago]

I would not dream of sanitizing materials taken from Mary's collection. I do not own any "black highlighters."

In this contentious matter, I expect criticism on the tone of the writing I do on the website, topics chosen, etc. I would hope that people would recognize the seriousness with which I take my role, however.

Rex Bradford

Dear Rex,

I would not dream of accusing you of sanitizing Mary's archives or of anything else except performing invaluable and herculean labors on behalf of truth and justice.

The fact that you've chosen to take the time to offer such a lengthy response is noted and deeply appreciated.

Yet unless I missed it, you did not address the simple questions that I've posed repeatedly on this forum. With all due respect, permit me to try again.

1. Where are the Ferrell archives? I understand that security and related matters may legitimately preclude you from being specific. Perhaps not. I and others are concerned that, while your intentions clearly are noble, parties who could benefit from the culling of Mary's immense collection are abroad in the land.

2. Are the archives safe from the ravages of climate and insect/rodent infestation?

3. Will the archives ever be directly accessible to credentialed researchers?

4. What motivated Mr. Curme to go to the considerable expense to buy the archives, care for Mary, and make the MFF a reality?

Surely you more than most can understand why I would ask these questions.

Finally, none of what I pose should be read as an indictment of your work. And as a paid member of the MFF, I wouldn't hesitate to sings its praises as an invaluable resource for historical research.

You, sir, are a valued ally.

Please address the questions directly, or state your reason for refusing to do so. That's all I ask.

(And I might add that my own motives for asking have been called into question. So be it.)

Respectfully,

Charles

[Jack White]

To date we have no response to our requests to Oliver Curme to divulge the whereabouts and condition of Mary Ferrell's original archives. Are they secure? Have they been left intact? Have they been sanitized?

And now Jay Harrison's collections are down the memory hole.

Is anyone else concerned?

I'd like to try a second time to describe the state of affairs with Mary Ferrell's collection and the Foundation.

As many people may know, I started the History Matters website (www.history-matters.com) and am also Vice-President of the Assassination Archives and Research Center (AARC - www.aarclibrary.org), which Jim Lesar heads. I have for the nearly 3 years now been devoting considerable attention to building the Mary Ferrell Foundation's website, which a few weeks ago passed 750,000 pages of JFK-related documents, along with photos, audio, video, and various special projects. I of course encourage everyone to check it out if you haven't already. All documents and other materials are free for browsing by anyone with an internet connection. We do have $39.95 paid memberships for those doing active research - these memberships are required to do full-text searches, plus other specialized searches, of the archive. But the materials are also well organized and accessible by point-and-click browsing by anyone.

The materials on the site include documents, books, and other materials from Mary Ferrell's collection, which is in the possession of the Foundation and kept intact. However, much more of what we have comes from the AARC. I am the person who chooses what collections to put online and, given very limited resources, in what order. My priority is to put up what I think will be of the greatest use for those studying the JFK case and related topics. The website was never meant to be an archive of Mary's materials only.

It is true that only a portion of Mary's materials have been put online. What we have put online includes hundreds of books (with limited "fair use" search excerpting), several thousand pages of documents, Mary's full Database and her Chronologies, and miscellaneous other materials. What we have not put online are:

* Thousands upon thousands of books. Given that our "fair use limited search" is really limited, it just hasn't been worth the trouble to scan books on early Soviet history and the many other topics Mary had tons of books on. We scanned over 300 of her books, mostly JFK-related, along with about 100 other books she didn't have.

* Dozens of boxes full of newspaper clippings and magazine articles. She was a prolific clipper. Our problem is copyright. While most news sources probably don't care anymore, we haven't been willing to take the chance on this.

* Documents. We have not put up all of Mary's document collection. In some cases, like the Warren Commission Documents, Mary's collection was incomplete and in some disrepair - many missing pages, etc. So we got a microfilm collection and used that instead, and then I went to the National Archives and scanned what was missing from the 1986-era microfilm. Similarly Mary's FBI and CIA files were not very voluminous and massively superceded by the AARC's much larger and more recently acquired collection. I did put up Mary's 1980-era FBI Mexico City file, though I've started a project of getting from the National Archives a much-less-redacted set. I also found a transcript from an HSCA critic's conference and put that online.

* AudioVideo. Mary did have several boxes with audiotapes and videotapes of various kinds. Some of these clearly suffer from the same copyright issues, but not all. It continues to be a goal of mine to go through these and make some available. There are also some folders of slides with the same issues.

* Miscellaneous. There is a stack of phone books from 1963 and other years of that era, which may or may not be of use to anyone at this point, and miscellanous items like that. Mary also received several manuscripts from various people - books that never made it into print.

In general, there is more from Mary's collection that I intend to make available online, though prioritized with other materials from the AARC, National Archives, and other sources. For example, I am going to NARA very shortly to get a copy of Santos Trafficante's HSCA Immunized Testimony, which I discovered last year was withheld in full (after making some inquiries and complaints, I am told that it has now just been released).

In contrast, what I've been able to get from the AARC includes several hundred thousand pages of FBI and CIA documents processed in the late 1990s (read: fewer redactions), Church Committee reports and transcripts of all Church Committee depositions, and much more. I have also obtained a few thousand pages of JCS files directly from the National Archives, as well as cherry-picked documents from the voluminous HSCA Numbered Files, and other misc. collections such as the papers of Capt. Will Fritz, Rockefeller Commission files, and more. We will soon begin processing some new AARC document collections and I'll post here when that begins.

I would not dream of sanitizing materials taken from Mary's collection. I do not own any "black highlighters."

I hope the above overlong response clarifies things a bit. I am always open to input on what materials related to the case would be of most use to people, as the website is intended as a public service. In this contentious matter, I expect criticism on the tone of the writing I do on the website, topics chosen, etc. I would hope that people would recognize the seriousness with which I take my role, however.

Again, www.maryferrell.org is meant to be a useful resource for people who use this forum and others out there. If there are suggestions people have for particular document collections or other resources that you think we should add, please email me at info@maryferrell.org. If you got this far, thanks for your patience in reading this.

Rex Bradford

Rex...I am not an attorney but have done considerable reading on the FAIR USE doctrine

of COPYRIGHTS.

EDUCATIONAL USE is one of the major exceptions to copyright enforcement.

NON-PROFIT USE is one of the major exceptions to copyright enforcement.

DAMAGES must be proved by anyone challenging FAIR USE of copyrighted material.

EXCERPTS may be published under FAIR USE.

Certainly the work of the Mary Ferrell Foundation meets all these requirements.

I cannot believe that any entity exists which might claim copyright privileges for materials

produced forty years ago which meet FAIR USE requirements. Publications long out of print

or out of business cannot claim DAMAGES. I suggest you ignore copyrights of such publications.

But I am not an attorney.

Jack

[Rex Bradford]

Yet unless I missed it, you did not address the simple questions that I've posed repeatedly on this forum. With all due respect, permit me to try again.

1. Where are the Ferrell archives? I understand that security and related matters may legitimately preclude you from being specific. Perhaps not. I and others are concerned that, while your intentions clearly are noble, parties who could benefit from the culling of Mary's immense collection are abroad in the land.

2. Are the archives safe from the ravages of climate and insect/rodent infestation?

3. Will the archives ever be directly accessible to credentialed researchers?

4. What motivated Mr. Curme to go to the considerable expense to buy the archives, care for Mary, and make the MFF a reality?

Surely you more than most can understand why I would ask these questions.

Finally, none of what I pose should be read as an indictment of your work. And as a paid member of the MFF, I wouldn't hesitate to sings its praises as an invaluable resource for historical research.

You, sir, are a valued ally.

Please address the questions directly, or state your reason for refusing to do so. That's all I ask.

(And I might add that my own motives for asking have been called into question. So be it.)

Respectfully,

Charles

Charles,

The answers I give below may be inadequate because of my desire to respect privacy concerns of a benefactor of the MFF. Here goes:

1. Where are the Ferrell archives? I understand that security and related matters may legitimately preclude you from being specific. Perhaps not. I and others are concerned that, while your intentions clearly are noble, parties who could benefit from the culling of Mary's immense collection are abroad in the land.

I do not want to be specific on this one, sorry. I have visited the collection on several occasions. It is under padlock and I do not believe accessible by untrustworthy people. Obviously no private collection can be completely secure in the fullest sense - the AARC for most of its tenure was pretty insecure. But I'm personally satisfied, for what it's worth.

2. Are the archives safe from the ravages of climate and insect/rodent infestation?

Yes, the collection is protected from the elements, though subject to the normal paper degradation process.

3. Will the archives ever be directly accessible to credentialed researchers?

The MFF has offices in Ipswich, Mass, and certainly if someone has a legitimate need for access to some particular portion of Mary's archive, I can arrange to make it accessible there. The full collection is not currently available for browsing.

4. What motivated Mr. Curme to go to the considerable expense to buy the archives, care for Mary, and make the MFF a reality?

My considered belief is that this was truly done for altruistic reasons based on a longstanding interest in the case and the larger issues of government deceit, accountability, etc. I base this on many personal interactions. Ultimately, I think the best answer to this question is the quality and contents of the website, which continues to grow and become more complete and useful.

As far as Jack White's comments regarding copyright, my understanding of copyright law is that it does not afford nearly so comprehensive a blanket protection for those involved in education. If there is a copyright lawyer in the house who would like to weigh in on this issue, I'm very interested. Google could argue that they are involved in education with their project of scanning books and making them searchable online (in a much fuller search engine than ours). But they are the defendant in a billion-dollar lawsuit brought by the publishers.

Rex

[Charles Drago]

Thank you, Rex.

I see no point in belaboring the issues I've raised -- at least not now.

I would add only that Mary's archives cannot be overestimated in terms of their significance to history, justice, and -- at the risk of committing hyperbole -- truth itself. I submit that cyber-archives, invaluable though they may be to researchers and other concerned parties, and regardless of the brilliance of their on-line presentations and designed methods of accessibility, cannot approximate the power, the persuasiveness, the literal and figurative weight inherent in the original materials.

For the record, and speaking solely for myself, I remain deeply concerned and skeptical about the archives' security and integrity. This has absolutely nothing to do with you; in point of fact, I'm somewhat comforted by your involvement in this matter.

Given your repeated personal encounters with Mr. Curme, I defer to your judgment regarding his motives. To date I have spent no more than two or three hours in his company. And while I found him to be a well-spoken and charming man, he did not demonstrate even a novice's grasp of the facts and implications of the events of 11/22/63.

Here's hoping he was playing his cards close to the vest. After all, good businessmen are great listeners.

Sincerely,

Charles

Edited January 23, 2008 by Charles Drago

[Robert Howard]

Since Rex has been posting on this thread, I would like to mention that the re-issuance of books such as Oswald In New Orleans, and other books by MFF has been a godsend, to new generation researchers, keep up the good work.

But if at all possible, do you Rex, think you could persuade Peter Dale Scott to submit his unpublished work, The Dallas Conspiracy, it is unavailable and has been to so to everyone except a select few lucky souls who have obtained it, one way or another.......Just a request......