Cameras in spacecraft

[Gavin Stone]

Duane, simple question and it requires a simple answer:

Did they launch in the Saturn V, yes or no?

They either did, and you admit that the camera is irrelevant to them launching or they didn't, in which case your Apollo in LEO orbit is shot down. Which one is it Duane? You can't have the best of both worlds.

[Duane Daman]

Hey look what I found boys !! .... Video footage taken inside the cabins of the Shuttle showing the astronauts during launch !!

Space Shuttle cockpit during launch with internal comms!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_vLl3K8yzOk

NASA Space Shuttle STS-121 Launch Cockpit View

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5WdQHQY0xJs

And even video footage of Alan Shepard inside the cabin during launch on his Mercury mission !!!

Alan Shepard: Mercury Freedom 7, May 5, 1961

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XasiezwcWA8

But still not one video clip of the Apollo astronots allegedy heading for the moon, er , I mean the Moon, during the launch of the Saturn V ! ... How strange is that ???

But I did find that video again showing us THE APOLLO EMERGENCY ESCAPE CHUTE .

James Burke demonstrates Apollo Saturn emergency precautions

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pLiAwSKkm6k

Wait a minute ! ... I did find this one still photo of the Apollo astronots in their cabin during launch !

How about that ?

[Dave Greer]

Well at least Evan got this one right .

The absurdity posted above by Evan , Gavin and Dave would have to be some of the silliest OFF TOPIC MOCKERY TAP DANCING ever posted here yet .

You started it with your Moon/moon madness. I think you've been reading a bit too much Dark Moon old bean!

What's the matter boys ? ... You having trouble explaining away why there were NO CAMERAS INSIDE THE CABIN DURING THE APOLLO MOON BOUND MISSIONS DURING LAUNCH BUT THERE WAS AN "EMERGENY ESCAPE CHUTE " ready and waiting to get the astronots off JUST IN CASE THE ROCKET BLEW UP DURING LIFTOFF ?

Why should anyone need to explain why there were no cameras? Even fully bolted-on HBers like Percy concede that the APollo 11 astronauts were at least in Earth orbit for the duration of the mission. How did they get there, wishful thinking? Or maybe reverse-engineered alien technology? Or - shock horror - perhaps they actually used a Saturn V rocket! Seems such a waste to spend all that time developing a rocket to get a lunar craft into LEO, then for the astronauts just to "beam up" into the CSM once it was in orbit.

Guess what? I haven't got a clue why there were no cameras in the cabin! Why should anyone consider this evidence that the Apollo programme was faked - especially someone who agrees with Percy that the Apollo 11 TV footage was faked in Earth orbit! And if they didn't go into LEO, why didn't they just fake the cabin lift-off footage, like you say they faked hours and hours of TV and DAC footage from the surface of the moon - a feat of monstrous complexity compared to filming someone in a CSM simulator while a couple of burly youths rock the outside of the cabin!

Here's a thought - maybe they decided against cabin cameras because of weight considerations?

As for questioning the validity of the Launch Escape System (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "Emergency Escape Chute") - wow! NASA actually built a safety feature into there launch system! FAKE!

Edited January 22, 2008 by Dave Greer

[Evan Burton]

Fair question:

Did they launch in the Saturn V, yes or no?

What do you say, Duane?

[Duane Daman]

Guess what? I haven't got a clue why there were no cameras in the cabin! Why should anyone consider this evidence that the Apollo programme was faked - especially someone who agrees with Percy that the Apollo 11 TV footage was faked in Earth orbit! And if they didn't go into LEO, why didn't they just fake the cabin lift-off footage, like you say they faked hours and hours of TV and DAC footage from the surface of the moon - a feat of monstrous complexity compared to filming someone in a CSM simulator while a couple of burly youths rock the outside of the cabin!

How do you fake three men sitting on Saturn V rockets as they launch ?

Get with the hoax program old bean .... Bill Kaysing always suspected there was nobody aboard the Saturn V's, and he would know because he worked for Rocketdyne .

Here's a thought - maybe they decided against cabin cameras because of weight considerations?

"Weight" is the only excuse you come up with ? .... The largest and most powerful rocket ever designed and you think one little camera in the cabin showing the astronauts during launch would be too much extra weight ???

The cameras they used later on were there already, adding to the weight .

Nine alleged trips to the Moon and not one reel of film from the cabin prior to and including launch ??... How very strange .

Most of NASA's missions prior to, and all of them following Apollo had a camera in the cabin but they JUST FORGOT about the moon trips ??

Even the makers of the movie Capricorn One remembered to put a camera there for the crucial scene when the Astronots are removed from the rocket.

Did they launch in the Saturn V, yes or no?

Yes.

Edited January 22, 2008 by Duane Daman

[Dave Greer]

Guess what? I haven't got a clue why there were no cameras in the cabin! Why should anyone consider this evidence that the Apollo programme was faked - especially someone who agrees with Percy that the Apollo 11 TV footage was faked in Earth orbit! And if they didn't go into LEO, why didn't they just fake the cabin lift-off footage, like you say they faked hours and hours of TV and DAC footage from the surface of the moon - a feat of monstrous complexity compared to filming someone in a CSM simulator while a couple of burly youths rock the outside of the cabin!

How do you fake three men sitting on Saturn V rockets as they launch ?

Get with the hoax program old bean .... Bill Kaysing always suspected there was nobody aboard the Saturn V's, and he would know because he worked for Rocketdyne .

Here's a thought - maybe they decided against cabin cameras because of weight considerations?

"Weight" is the only excuse you come up with ? .... The largest and most powerful rocket ever designed and you think one little camera in the cabin showing the astronauts during launch would be too much extra weight ???

The cameras they used later on were there already, adding to the weight .

Nine alleged trips to the Moon and not one reel of film from the cabin prior to and including launch ??... How very strange .

Most of NASA's missions prior to, and all of them following Apollo had a camera in the cabin but they JUST FORGOT about the moon trips ??

Even the makers of the movie Capricorn One remembered to put a camera there for the crucial scene when the Astronots are removed from the rocket.

Did they launch in the Saturn V, yes or no?

Yes.

I notice you completely ignored the parts of my post that referred to Apollo 11 footage being in filmed at the very least in LEO, as acknowledged by David Percy, Bart Sibrel, Jarrah White and even yourself since you agree with their theories! Please explain how did they get there, and back up your claim with evidence.

Ta!

[Gavin Stone]

So Duane, you agree they launched in the Saturn V, so how is no video evidence of them during launch proof of a hoax? They undoubtedly made the trip into a parking orbit initially!!!

[Duane Daman]

I notice you completely ignored the parts of my post that referred to Apollo 11 footage being in filmed at the very least in LEO, as acknowledged by David Percy, Bart Sibrel, Jarrah White and even yourself since you agree with their theories! Please explain how did they get there, and back up your claim with evidence.

Ta!

Do you agree that it seems highly unusual that not a single reel of film exists of the Apollo Astros strapped in the cabins on top of the Saturn V's bound for the moon?

Especially considering prior to and after Apollo, NASA made this a priority.

Yes or no?

Ta.

So Duane, you agree they launched in the Saturn V, so how is no video evidence of them during launch proof of a hoax?

I never said that no cameras recording the Apollo astronots during launch was proof of a hoax .... The staged Apollo photographs are proof of a hoax .

Read my posts again if you're confused as to what we are discussing here and what my claims are .

Or just read my question to Dave and answer it yourself if you would like.

[Dave Greer]

I notice you completely ignored the parts of my post that referred to Apollo 11 footage being in filmed at the very least in LEO, as acknowledged by David Percy, Bart Sibrel, Jarrah White and even yourself since you agree with their theories! Please explain how did they get there, and back up your claim with evidence.

Ta!

Do you agree that it seems highly unusual that not a single reel of film exists of the Apollo Astros strapped in the cabins on top of the Saturn V's bound for the moon?

Especially considering prior to and after Apollo, NASA made this a priority.

Yes or no?

Ta.

Still avoiding the question old bean? You're doing a Jarrah - changing tack and hoping the question you don't want to answer will quietly disappear.

In answer to your question: IMO it would be have been nice to have footage of the crew during lift-off, but the lack of that footage cannot be construed as evidence of shennanigans on NASAs part, since we know they were in earth orbit! And you can scoff all you like, but weight considerations are mightily important. I don't know if that's the reason for a lack of cabin launch video, but it's a possibility.

Now, do the decent thing old chap and return the favour: answer the question you've been hoping will go away!

[Duane Daman]

Now, do the decent thing old chap and return the favour: answer the question you've been hoping will go away!

I'm sorry but I have ADD... Could you please repeat the question ?

Oh, this question ?

I notice you completely ignored the parts of my post that referred to Apollo 11 footage being in filmed at the very least in LEO, as acknowledged by David Percy, Bart Sibrel, Jarrah White and even yourself since you agree with their theories! Please explain how did they get there, and back up your claim with evidence.

Yes, I agree with my fellow CT's that the Apollo astronots made it as far as LOW EARTH ORBIT ! .... But I'm afraid that I can't back that up with any evidnence because THERE WERE NO CAMERAS IN THE CABIN DURING LIFTOFF PROVING THAT THE APOLLO ASTRONOTS WERE REALLY IN THE ROCKET DURING LAUNCH !

In answer to your question: IMO it would be have been nice to have footage of the crew during lift-off, but the lack of that footage cannot be construed as evidence of shennanigans on NASAs part, since we know they were in earth orbit! And you can scoff all you like, but weight considerations are mightily important. I don't know if that's the reason for a lack of cabin launch video, but it's a possibility.

MAYBE YOU THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO SEE SUCH FOOTAGE BUT I THINK PERHAPS IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A PRIORITY FOR NASA TO BE FILMING LAUNCHES FROM THE EXACT SAME SPOT THEY HAD FILMED PREVIOUS MISSIONS AND PROBABLY EVERY MISSION SINCE THEN.

WHEN YOU ARE ALREADY CARRYING A TV CAMERA AND A 16 MM DAC FOR USE IN THE CM FOR TRANSMITTING BACK TO TERRESTIAL TV STATIONS AND FOR SOME NICE, "LOOK, WE ARE IN ZERO GRAVITY" HOME MOVIES, THEN I AM HAVING DIFFICULTY UNDERSTANDING WHAT THIS WEIGHT CONSIDERATION WAS ??

TELL ME HOW YOU KNOW FOR A FACT THAT APOLLO 11 WAS FLYING TO THE MOON IN ZERO G THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY FROM THE EARTH ?

WAS IT BECAUSE NEIL ARMSTRONG ASSUMES AN UPSIDE DOWN BAT IN A CAVE POSITION AT ONE POINT, OR WAS THE BLUE EARTH ATMOSPHERE LIGHT STREAMING THROUGH BOTH SIDES OF THE CM "COLORED BY NITROGEN FILLED WINDOWS" THE CLINCHER FOR YOU ?

Edited January 22, 2008 by Duane Daman

[Dave Greer]

Now, do the decent thing old chap and return the favour: answer the question you've been hoping will go away!

I'm sorry but I have ADD... Could you please repeat the question ?

Oh, this question ?

I notice you completely ignored the parts of my post that referred to Apollo 11 footage being in filmed at the very least in LEO, as acknowledged by David Percy, Bart Sibrel, Jarrah White and even yourself since you agree with their theories! Please explain how did they get there, and back up your claim with evidence.

Yes, I agree with my fellow CT's that the Apollo astronots made it as far as LOW EARTH ORBIT ! .... But I'm afraid that I can't back that up with any evidnence because THERE WERE NO CAMERAS IN THE CABIN DURING LIFTOFF PROVING THAT THE APOLLO ASTRONOTS WERE REALLY IN THE ROCKET DURING LAUNCH !

You don't need cabin footage during liftoff - you have cabin footage when they're in space! Whether that footage be in LEO or after TLI, they were in space! Now, use a bit of logic. If we know they are in space, we know they must have got there somehow. Maybe they flapped their wings. Maybe they beamed up to a craft already in orbit, Star Trek fashion. Maybe they fell into a rift in the space-time continuum, and by some incredibly ironic twist of fate, ended up in the CSM. Or maybe they just got into orbit in a Saturn V rocket. Fancy that!

MAYBE YOU THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO SEE SUCH FOOTAGE BUT I THINK PERHAPS IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A PRIORITY FOR NASA TO BE FILMING LAUNCHES FROM THE EXACT SAME SPOT THEY HAD FILMED PREVIOUS MISSIONS AND PROBABLY EVERY MISSION SINCE THEN.

WHEN YOU ARE ALREADY CARRYING A TV CAMERA AND A 16 MM DAC FOR USE IN THE CM FOR TRANSMITTING BACK TO TERRESTIAL TV STATIONS AND FOR SOME NICE, "LOOK, WE ARE IN ZERO GRAVITY" HOME MOVIES, THEN I AM HAVING DIFFICULTY UNDERSTANDING WHAT THIS WEIGHT CONSIDERATION WAS ??

TELL ME HOW YOU KNOW FOR A FACT THAT APOLLO 11 WAS FLYING TO THE MOON IN ZERO G THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY FROM THE EARTH ?

WAS IT BECAUSE NEIL ARMSTRONG ASSUMES AN UPSIDE DOWN BAT IN A CAVE POSITION AT ONE POINT, OR WAS THE BLUE EARTH ATMOSPHERE LIGHT STREAMING THROUGH BOTH SIDES OF THE CM "COLORED BY NITROGEN FILLED WINDOWS" THE CLINCHER FOR YOU ?

For the love of God, STOP SHOUTING!

OK, so you think NASA should have made cabin footage a priority. Perhaps you should write to them and give them a piece of your mind. Give them a jolly good ticking off. Get it off your chest.

The main issue is that you can not possibly use this as evidence that Apollo was faked, since you ADMIT they were at the very least in Earth orbit! And don't pull the old "But I never said it was evidence of fakery" trick, all your Apollo posts are related to the Hoax Theory. You can question the lack of cabin footage all you like, but surely you must realise that if they were in space, it's highly likely they were in the cabin at launch?

[Evan Burton]

Yes, I agree with my fellow CT's that the Apollo astronots made it as far as LOW EARTH ORBIT ! .... But I'm afraid that I can't back that up with any evidnence because THERE WERE NO CAMERAS IN THE CABIN DURING LIFTOFF PROVING THAT THE APOLLO ASTRONOTS WERE REALLY IN THE ROCKET DURING LAUNCH !

Well, proof that there were people in the capsule during Apollo 12 can be presented when the astronauts reported the systems failures during the launch. They said they thought they may have been hit by lightning... which was confirmed later (actually, they were hit twice).

Regaining data from the CSM was only obtained by the famous 'SCE to AUX' - a setting that could ONLY be obtained by manual manipulation of the switch in the CM during the launch. They then had to realign the platform through MANUAL star sightings; again only possible if there were people in the CM that was in orbit.

If Apollo 12 had been a 'unmanned' launch, then the whole thing would have been exposed as a fake due to system incidents that required manual intervention.

[Duane Daman]

For the love of God, STOP SHOUTING!

OK, so you think NASA should have made cabin footage a priority. Perhaps you should write to them and give them a piece of your mind. Give them a jolly good ticking off. Get it off your chest.

The main issue is that you can not possibly use this as evidence that Apollo was faked, since you ADMIT they were at the very least in Earth orbit! And don't pull the old "But I never said it was evidence of fakery" trick, all your Apollo posts are related to the Hoax Theory. You can question the lack of cabin footage all you like, but surely you must realise that if they were in space, it's highly likely they were in the cabin at launch?

Who's shouting ? ... I merely posted in caps... Is that a crime here also ?

I don't question whether or not the Apollo astronots were in earth orbit ... It's pretty obvious that they at least got that far, for many reasons, including all of the color footage of them in the CM taken for the TV audience around the world.

What I am questioning is why in God's name did NASA pick their most important missions of all NOT to film the astronauts in the cabin during launch ?

This was a first , not only for the Saturn V being launched to LEO but also a first for the alleged manned missions to the Moon ... So to not have cameras inside the cabin during liftoff is completely senseless, if not completely negligent !!

If something had gone wrong during that time, or if the astronauts were in any kind of trouble during launch, NASA would not be able to see what was taking place in the cabin !

So I will ask you one last time .... Don't you find it highy strange that no cameras were positioned in the cabins during liftoff for the

"greatest technological achievement of all mankind " ??

YES OR NO ? ( And that was not shouting !!! )

[Evan Burton]

So I will ask you one last time .... Don't you find it highy strange that no cameras were positioned in the cabins during liftoff for the "greatest technological achievement of all mankind " ??

YES OR NO ? ( And that was not shouting !!! )

No, I don't find it strange. There was a multitude of telemetry from the capsule - pressures, temps, heart rates, breathing rate, voltages, voice, vibrations, acceleration, etc, etc. There was no particular need for the cockpit camera. Perhaps they should of had one - it would have been nice... but was it operationally essential? No. Did it form part of the mission requirements? No.

Remember Apollo 7? Wally Schirra was unhappy about a TV camera being brought aboard to transmit from orbit. There was much angst about it on the flight, though Wally later admitted it was a good idea:

"In retrospect it seems inconceivable, but serious debate ensued in NASA councils on whether television should be broadcast from Apollo missions, and the decision to carry the little 4 1/2- pound camera was not made until just before this October flight. Although these early pictures were crude, I think it was informative for the public to see astronauts floating weightlessly in their roomy spacecraft, snatching floating objects, and eating the first hot food consumed in space. Like the television pictures, the food improved in later missions."

http://www.wallyschirra.com/apollo.htm

[Dave Greer]

Who's shouting ? ... I merely posted in caps... Is that a crime here also ?

Internet etiquette - netiquette. Upper case is good for highlighting certain words or phrases, but using it on entire passages is considered the equivalent of shouting, and makes it more difficult to read.

I don't question whether or not the Apollo astronots were in earth orbit ... It's pretty obvious that they at least got that far, for many reasons, including all of the color footage of them in the CM taken for the TV audience around the world.

What I am questioning is why in God's name did NASA pick their most important missions of all NOT to film the astronauts in the cabin during launch ?

This was a first , not only for the Saturn V being launched to LEO but also a first for the alleged manned missions to the Moon ... So to not have cameras inside the cabin during liftoff is completely senseless, if not completely negligent !!

If something had gone wrong during that time, or if the astronauts were in any kind of trouble during launch, NASA would not be able to see what was taking place in the cabin !

So I will ask you one last time .... Don't you find it highy strange that no cameras were positioned in the cabins during liftoff for the

"greatest technological achievement of all mankind " ??

YES OR NO ? ( And that was not shouting !!! )

I've already answered the question. It would have been nice to have that as part of the historical record, and it would help to know the reasoning behind the decision (weight considerations was speculation on my part, but one that makes sense). Perhaps it could have been possible to set up the camera they used later to monitor the cabin during lift off. Do I find it highly strange? No. Do I wish we had the footage? Yes.

GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU?