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Edward Jay Epstein


Wim Dankbaar
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http://edjayepstein.blogspot.com/

http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/

Warren Commission apologist, the main "debunker" of James Files, prominently appearing in the latest documentary "Oswald's Ghost", not willing to talk to me.

Who and what is Edward Jay Epstein? Is he CIA disinfo like Bob Vernon claimed? Opinions welcome.

Wim

I think that time has proven that Epstein was a plant from the start.

(His views on Files are another matter. Many people don't buy into the Files

tale but that does not make them disinfo artists.)

Dawn

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I am fairly wary of a lot of CT sites, because their sensationalist (doomsday) delivery makes me think that there is a lot of embellishment going on.

Nonetheless, I found the part of Epstein's site relating to a possible correlation between the 911 hijackings and crashes to be quite plausible.

As I recall, the letters to the choice Senators were not described by the media has having any Muslim overtones whatsoever, but, acoording to Epstein, they concluded with the ever-popular "Allah Ahkbar".

He also states that (a) 1 or 2 of the Flight 93 hijackers had been treated at a Ft. Lauderdale hospital for a black lesion, which apparently resembles Antrhax infection, 2 or 3 months before 911, and (:rolleyes: the Aimes strain had to have been somehow purloined from a secure lab (i.e. through some kind of employee/terrorist infiltration, apparently).

If that is true, it certainly makes the Anthrax dissemination and 911 appear to be parts of an integrated plan of attack..

It's interesting stuff, in any event.

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Wim, I have a different take on Epstein. He wrote Inquest in college, and hoped to make a big impact on the Eastern establishment and media. On this, he was successful. He showed everyone that the WC was less than thorough, and that it had ignored the findings of the FBI to reach its conclusions. That was enough for Epstein. From meeting the WC, he found it hard to believe there was deliberate cover-up. As a result, when Lane and Garrison started pushing that there was a BIG conspiracy,and alienating the Eastern establishment and media, Epstein grew a bit reticent, and denounced Garrison and his methods.

Later, his interest in the case was re-awakened, particularly the prospect that the Russians were behind the assassination. This suspicion was, of course, fed by Angleton.

Unfortunately, Epstein is guilty of the same failing as most journalists. When a key figure takes a journalist into his confidence, they are so excited about the "insight" and access provided, they rarely understand when they are being used. I suspect that Epstein, as Trento, and perhaps Weiner of the NY Times, became so buddy-buddy with his CIA contacts that he failed to notice when he became their advocate.

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Pat, there's a difference between bias and willfully/knowingly lying.

QUOTE -

In brief, NBC retained me as a consultant for their planned story on Files. I hired the detective firm of Jules Kroll. JK established from telephone records Files was in Chicago, not Dallas, on November 22,1963.

Ed Epstein

- UNQUOTE

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Wim, I have a different take on Epstein. He wrote Inquest in college, and hoped to make a big impact on the Eastern establishment and media. On this, he was successful. He showed everyone that the WC was less than thorough, and that it had ignored the findings of the FBI to reach its conclusions. That was enough for Epstein. From meeting the WC, he found it hard to believe there was deliberate cover-up. As a result, when Lane and Garrison started pushing that there was a BIG conspiracy,and alienating the Eastern establishment and media, Epstein grew a bit reticent, and denounced Garrison and his methods.

Later, his interest in the case was re-awakened, particularly the prospect that the Russians were behind the assassination. This suspicion was, of course, fed by Angleton.

Unfortunately, Epstein is guilty of the same failing as most journalists. When a key figure takes a journalist into his confidence, they are so excited about the "insight" and access provided, they rarely understand when they are being used. I suspect that Epstein, as Trento, and perhaps Weiner of the NY Times, became so buddy-buddy with his CIA contacts that he failed to notice when he became their advocate.

I tend to agree with Pat on this. I am sure Epstein started off as a crusading journalist. He was probably warned that he would not have a successful career if he continued to argue for a conspiracy rather than a "cock-up". At the same time, he has found his image created by "Inquest" useful. As Pat points out, journalists like Epstein become too close to their CIA contacts. Cleaveland Cram's report was very critical of the way Epstein and Trento were too keen to believe Angleton's disinformation stories.

By the way, unlike Trento, Epstein has refused to discuss his books on the forum.

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Pat, there's a difference between bias and willfully/knowingly lying.

QUOTE -

In brief, NBC retained me as a consultant for their planned story on Files. I hired the detective firm of Jules Kroll. JK established from telephone records Files was in Chicago, not Dallas, on November 22,1963.

Ed Epstein

- UNQUOTE

Wim, excuse my ignorance on this issue. Which part or parts of Epstein's statement is false, and how do we know he's not just mistaken, or overstating his case?

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Having been introduced to Epstein's work in the '60's, I think he was on the right track in the beginning. But I believe he was "turned" somewhere in the pursuit of truth and justice, and became one of the very people he began his crusade against. Whether he was actually convinced he was initially on the wrong track, or whether he was coerced into that position, only he knows. But from where he started, Epstein did a rather abrupt about-face.

So I don't believe he was a "plant" from the beginning. I rather believe that someone [person OR organization] changed his mind FOR him.

JMHO.

Edited by Mark Knight
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Many people don't buy into the Files tale

Dawn

Dawn, are you sure?

Ask these people (on this non exhaustive list) if they dismiss "the Files tale":

Robert Groden

Mike Brownloh

John Hughes

Peter Dale Scott

Jerry Kroth

Robert Clayton Buick

Antoinette Giancana

David Scheim

John Hughes

Fabian Escalante

John R. Craig

Antonio Veciana

Gary Shaw

Barr McClellan,

David Mantik,

Gaeton Fonzi

Zack Shelton (FBI)

Mike Wacks (FBI)

Jack O' Rourke(FBI)

Richard Stilling (FBI)

James Sibert (FBI)

Jack Rivell

Robert Gaylon

Jim Marrs

Jean Guy Allard (journalist Cuba)

Ernesto Villegas (journalist Venezuela)

Edward G. Griffin

Bob Kiviat (TV producer)

Craig Roberts

Peter R. de Vries (Dutch crime journalist)

Daniel Estulin (author bestselling Bilderberg book)

Alec Gifford (television anchorman in New Orleans)

George Noory (host Coast to Coast)

Kenji Ogawa (Producer Nippon TV)

Quiz: Which JFK assassination book has the maximum rating on Amazon.com?

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Many people don't buy into the Files tale

Dawn

It's a shame veracity can't be determined by democracy.

And Bob Vernon's team of ex-FBI agents are allowed to vote?

Jack Rivell? - He sould be indicted, convicted and be in jail with Files. - BK

Dawn, are you sure?

Ask these people (on this non exhaustive list) if they dismiss "the Files tale":

Robert Groden

Mike Brownloh

John Hughes

Peter Dale Scott

Jerry Kroth

Robert Clayton Buick

Antoinette Giancana

David Scheim

John Hughes

Fabian Escalante

John R. Craig

Antonio Veciana

Gary Shaw

Barr McClellan,

David Mantik,

Gaeton Fonzi

Zack Shelton (FBI)

Mike Wacks (FBI)

Jack O' Rourke(FBI)

Richard Stilling (FBI)

James Sibert (FBI)

Jack Rivell

Robert Gaylon

Jim Marrs

Jean Guy Allard (journalist Cuba)

Ernesto Villegas (journalist Venezuela)

Edward G. Griffin

Bob Kiviat (TV producer)

Craig Roberts

Peter R. de Vries (Dutch crime journalist)

Daniel Estulin (author bestselling Bilderberg book)

Alec Gifford (television anchorman in New Orleans)

George Noory (host Coast to Coast)

Kenji Ogawa (Producer Nippon TV)

Quiz: Which JFK assassination book has the maximum rating on Amazon.com?

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It's a shame veracity can't be determined by democracy.

And Bob Vernon's team of ex-FBI agents are allowed to vote?

Jack Rivell? - He sould be indicted, convicted and be in jail with Files. - BK

Cheap demagogy, it was never "Bob Vernon's team of ex-FBI agents" and you know it. And by the way, the issue was not veracity, but rather how it is being evaluated, specifically whether "many people buy in to the Files tale".

Maybe the question should be rephrased to how many people buy into the tales of disinfo artists like Epstein .......

Wim

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It's a shame veracity can't be determined by democracy.

And Bob Vernon's team of ex-FBI agents are allowed to vote?

Jack Rivell? - He sould be indicted, convicted and be in jail with Files. - BK

Cheap demagogy, it was never "Bob Vernon's team of ex-FBI agents" and you know it.

I've never been called a demagog before.

All I know is what Bob Vernon said to me on the phone many times - "my team of ex-FBI agents," of whom he would only mention Zack Shelton.

Zack Shelton (FBI)

Mike Wacks (FBI)

Jack O' Rourke(FBI)

Richard Stilling (FBI)

James Sibert (FBI)

Jack Rivell

And by the way, the issue was not veracity, but rather how it is being evaluated, specifically whether "many people buy in to the Files tale".

Like I said, it's not a matter of how many believe anything, it's who believes.

Vernon's a Barnum Bailey Three ring circus huckster who put on a show that you bought. Did Shelton, Wacks, O'Rourke, Stilling, Sibert and Rivell come with the web site?

If so, will you ask them what it was like to work in a HQ named after a cross dressing fagxt?

Start with Jack Rivell. You want me to trust Jack Rivell's evaluation of James Files?

Jack Rivell? The same Jack Rivell who was in the Dallas PD Intelligence Unit at the time of the assassination, the former USMC, who worked with the local Army Intel. outfit, who played a pivotal role in the direction of the DPD investigation of the accused assassin, and failed to uncover any national security implications, and was summarily hiried by JEH and made the FBI Dallas Agent In Charge for many years as a reward for his role in the coverup of the crimes related to the assassination? That Jack Rivell?

Maybe the question should be rephrased to how many people buy into the tales of disinfo artists like Epstein .......

Wim

Now Epstein is a whole different ball of wax, and if Vernon called him a disinfo agent, that may be correct, as Angleton and Nosenko were two of his primary sources.

Epstein, from memory, was a Cornell student who did his masters poly sci thesis on the Warren Report, which was published as Inquest, and there may be a connection there to G. Robert Blakey, who set up the Cornell Institute of Organized Crime and wrote the RICO statute before becoming the second chief counsel to HSCA and professor at Notre Dame.

Many of Blakey's students got involved in HSCA (Lopez/Hardway), and I'm not sure Epstein was one of them, but Epstein, like Blakey, both put wrong and different spins on the tale of the accused assassin. Blakey decided not to go into the hall of mirrors, and pin the tale on the mob, while Epstein went in and bumped his head too many times.

BK

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I mean this Jack Rivell:

Dallas Police lieutenant at the time of the assassination. Tells that after the assassination he escorted Dallas mayor Earle Cabell on a flight to Washington DC, where they gathered in the house of the mayor's brother, general Charles Cabell. Charles Cabell had been the second man in the CIA and was fired by JFK after the Bay of Pigs, along with CIA director Allen Dulles, who was later appointed to the Warren Commission by Lyndon Johnson. Charles Cabell had openly called JFK a traitor. As mayor of Dallas, his brother was in charge of the security for Kennedy's visit and the motorcade route. Rivell recalls that on the day of JFK's funeral, Cabell's house was filled with high profile people and three stripe generals who watched the funeral on television in an upbeat atmosphere.

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