Will Future Manned Missions Prove Apollo was a Hoax ?

[Duane Daman]

Will Future Manned Missions Prove Apollo was a Hoax ?

This post evidence was deleted by Evan Burton from the PROTON 4 thread ... I am posting it again in a modified version as a new topic .

I thought everyone might find this article interesting ... You will need to read between the lines to see that so far NASA has no way of knowing how to develope a heat shield which will keep astronots alive "on the lunar side" !!

From the article : NASA to test-fly Orion spacecraft next fall.

" Where does NASA stand on risk of the heat-shield materials for Orion? "We can handle the initial operating system of (re-entry from) low-Earth orbit," Reuther said. "On the lunar side it's a much greater challenge. We need a single heat-shield material for the lunar environment and re-entry...We're at greater risk there building a single system for both FROM SCRATCH ."

THis is how NASA plans to SOFT LAND THE CRAFT ON SOLID GROUND !

"The craft will be comprised of four parts: a launch vehicle, or spacecraft adaptor that will carry the capsule into LOW EARTH ORBIT ; a service module that contains an engine and pedals for aerodynamics; a crew module (in which the crew rides); and a LAUNCH ABORT SYSTEM. This system is used to eject the crew in case of emergency on the launch pad. It will also include A SET OF AIRBAGS SO THE CRAFT CAN LAND ON SOLID GROUND ."

Why don't they just use the four legs from the old LM's to land on solid ground ? ... After all , they worked PERFECTLY ALMOST 40 YEARS AGO WHEN SIX MISSIONS USED THEM TO PRETEND TO LAND ON THE "LUNAR SIDE" !!

Like I have always said ... The future manned missions to the Moon (if there ever really are any in 2020 ), will blow the Apollo scam right out of the water !

Click here for the rest of the article .

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-6200278.html

Here's a YouTube video showing NASA's plans for their future science fiction trips to the Moon ... At least this time the equipment looks real .

Space Exploration : NASA's Plans For The Future

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6MqR8Zt02lY&...feature=related

And here's one just for fun !

Werner Von Braun

[Duane Daman]

My apologies ... I hadn't noticed that Evan had posted this under a new title and that Kevin had already replied with his typical insults .

If Kevin would like to post his reply here again , then Evan can delete the previous thread, as there is no point in having two threads with the same topic ... Thanks .

[Dave Greer]

You will need to read between the lines to see that so far NASA has no way of knowing how to develope a heat shield which will keep astronots alive "on the lunar side" !!

From the article : NASA to test-fly Orion spacecraft next fall.

" Where does NASA stand on risk of the heat-shield materials for Orion? "We can handle the initial operating system of (re-entry from) low-Earth orbit," Reuther said. "On the lunar side it's a much greater challenge. We need a single heat-shield material for the lunar environment and re-entry...We're at greater risk there building a single system for both FROM SCRATCH ."

I'm assuming you read the entire article? (Only a few paragraphs). If so you'd have read this (my bolding):-

One of the more critical elements of Orion that NASA is currently testing is heat shield materials, which are essential to vehicle protection on re-entry to the Earth's atmosphere and have failed in past missions. NASA Ames is developing and testing materials on its own, but it's also contracted with Boeing and Textron Systems to develop alternate heat-shield materials for the spacecraft. It plans to select the best of the lot, said James Reuther, leader of the Advanced Development Thermal Protection Systems Project for Orion at NASA Ames.

Reuther said the team is looking at reusing the heat-shield materials used on Apollo, a proprietary material called Avcoat. But he said the recipe for Avcoat is hard to reproduce without the scientists who initially developed it in the 1960s. Also, Orion will require a stronger material capable of withstanding heat five times stronger than that experienced in re-entry from low-Earth orbit. Given that Orion is larger than Apollo, the heat shield must also withstand a 30 percent temperature increase, he said.

I don't see anything that supports your theory that NASA has no way of knowing how to develop a heatshield with the necessary characteristics?

THis is how NASA plans to SOFT LAND THE CRAFT ON SOLID GROUND !

"The craft will be comprised of four parts: a launch vehicle, or spacecraft adaptor that will carry the capsule into LOW EARTH ORBIT ; a service module that contains an engine and pedals for aerodynamics; a crew module (in which the crew rides); and a LAUNCH ABORT SYSTEM. This system is used to eject the crew in case of emergency on the launch pad. It will also include A SET OF AIRBAGS SO THE CRAFT CAN LAND ON SOLID GROUND ."

Why don't they just use the four legs from the old LM's to land on solid ground ? ... After all , they worked PERFECTLY ALMOST 40 YEARS AGO WHEN SIX MISSIONS USED THEM TO PRETEND TO LAND ON THE "LUNAR SIDE" !!

The airbags are for use with the Orion CEV (Crew Exploration Vehicle), which is the equivalent of the Apollo Command Module, not the LM (Lunar Module). It was intended to make it possible to land on solid ground, rather than at sea. It was part of the initial design cycle, but according to this report , has been removed in order to save weight.

The legs for the LM were, of course, designed to safely land the LM on the moon, not not the CM on Earth. They did that, very well. Six times all told.

Like I have always said ... The future manned missions to the Moon (if there ever really are any in 2020 ), will blow the Apollo scam right out of the water !

Or will completely validate Apollo, as if such a validation were even necessary!

PS The Von Braun clip was very funny - thanks for that!

Edited January 20, 2008 by Dave Greer

[Duane Daman]

PS The Von Braun clip was very funny - thanks for that!

Glad you liked it ... What a great song !

Edited January 20, 2008 by Duane Daman

[Kevin M. West]

My apologies ... I hadn't noticed that Evan had posted this under a new title and that Kevin had already replied with his typical insults .

If Kevin would like to post his reply here again , then Evan can delete the previous thread, as there is no point in having two threads with the same topic ... Thanks .

Sure, here's my original reply:

I thought you might find this article interesting ... You will need to read between the lines to see that so far NASA has no way of knowing how to develope a heat shield which will keep astronots alive "on the lunar side" !!

" Where does NASA stand on risk of the heat-shield materials for Orion? "We can handle the initial operating system of (re-entry from) low-Earth orbit," Reuther said. "On the lunar side it's a much greater challenge. We need a single heat-shield material for the lunar environment and re-entry...We're at greater risk there building a single system for both FROM SCRATCH ."

And if you had even basic understanding of what you were reading, you'd know that Orion is intended for both LEO and lunar missions, which is why they are developing a new heat shield that would be appropriate for both. They can't just use the 40 year old Apollo heat shields on a new larger craft with different requirements than Apollo. The article clearly states that.

Oh and it's even better before that part at the end .... Check out how they plan to SOFT LAND THE CRAFT ON SOLID GROUND !

"The craft will be comprised of four parts: a launch vehicle, or spacecraft adaptor that will carry the capsule into LOW EARTH ORBIT ; a service module that contains an engine and pedals for aerodynamics; a crew module (in which the crew rides); and a LAUNCH ABORT SYSTEM . This system is used to eject the crew in case of emergency on the launch pad. It will also include A SET OF AIRBAGS SO THE CRAFT CAN LAND ON SOLID GROUND ."

Why don't they just use the four legs from the old LM's to land on solid ground ? ... After all , they WORKED PERFECTLY ALMOST 40 YEARS AGO WHEN SIX MISSIONS USED THEM TO PRETEND TO LAND MEN ON THE "LUNAR SIDE" !!

Seriously, do some reading on the new program so you can avoid amazingly inaccurate statements like that. Orion is not the new LM, it's the equivilent of the command module of Apollo. The only landing Orion will be doing is on Earth, just like the CM from Apollo. They are giving it airbags so it can end its parachute descent on solid ground instead of the ocean landing that Apollo used. There are no legs involved in the Apollo CM or Orion.

Like I have always said ... The future manned missions to the Moon (if there ever really are any by 2020 ), will blow the Apollo scam right out of the water !"

So far, you've shown an amazing ignorance of both programs, so your assessment is worthless.

[Duane Daman]

Thanks for posting your reply again Kevin ... As usual, you have shown what a nice polite fellow you are .

It's not just the Orion missions that will prove that Apollo never landed men on the Moon almost 40 years ago ... It's the fact that NASA still hasn't been able to figure out how to protect their astronauts against deep space radiation either .... They will also have to invent new shielding .

It's to too bad that NASA destroyed the all those blueprints to the LM , the Rover and the Saturn V rocket , isn't it ? ....Then their rocket scientists today wouldn't have to be starting all over again "from scratch".

Edited January 20, 2008 by Duane Daman

[Gavin Stone]

Duane, it's an entirely different program with entirely different goals. You can't really compare the two in the way you are doing!

[Evan Burton]

And you keep saying all the blueprints have been destroyed - that is false. A number of blueprints (and it depends what you mean by blueprints) have been discarded but most still exist. A large amount went into national archives. Some when into company archives (because the vehicle was built with sub-components made by various contractors) but some where simply discarded because it was deemed unnecessary to keep them. Major structural and systems technical drawing still exist.

I believe that has been pointed out to you before.

[Duane Daman]

Yes, it has been pointed out to me before by you, and I didn't buy the story the first time either .

Speaking of Apollo evidence being archived ... Why would the government consider The Apollo Program so top secret that they won't allow all of the documents and files about the project released to the public until some distant future date ? .... I believe it was 2026 when the world would finally be privy to the truth about The Apollo Program, but only if the current US president decided it was okay to release the top secret documents .

Wasn't it President Nixon who decided this release date ? ... Gee, you don't think those 18 minutes of erased tape was about how NASA faked the Moon landing , do you ???

[Evan Burton]

I'm willing to be corrected, Duane:

- Show me the evidence that the tech drawings are no longer available. You said you didn't buy it the first time... you must have checked, and got proof of that, haven't you? Real proof - not just a quote from a mate of yours who says they are not available.

- Apollo documentation not releasable until 2026? Seems to be a shed-load of it available today. Again, where is your evidence that it is not available until 2026? Again, real proof.

[Duane Daman]

"Hoax proponents say that blueprints for the Apollo Lunar Module, rover, and associated equipment are missing.

There are some diagrams of the Lunar Module and Moon buggy on the NASA web site as well as on the pro hoax web site Xenophilia.com. Grumman appears to have destroyed most of the documentation.

Despite the questions concerning the existence or location of the LEM blueprints, an unused LEM is on exhibit at the Cradle of Aviation Museum. The Lunar Module designated LM-13 would have landed on the Moon during the Apollo 18 mission, but was instead put into storage when the mission was canceled: it has since been restored and put on display. Other unused Lunar Modules are on display: LM-2 at the National Air and Space Museum, LM-9 at Kennedy Space Center, and LM-16 at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago. "

That sure sounds like the blueprints were destroyed to me .

Copies of the blueprints for the Saturn V exist on microfilm. "

Says who ? ... NASA ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Moon_L...oax_accusations

I will get back to you on the classified Apollo documents .