Apollo 12 Faked Photographs

[Duane Daman]

Peter .... Thanks very much for all of that information ... I learned a lot that I didn't know before .... and thanks also for the offer to post a graph, but that won't be necessary .

Have you got the source for this quote?

Dave ... Now that I have my address bar working properly again I will see if can find it .

[Duane Daman]

Here's where I got Bean's quote from ...This is one of the videos where Alan Bean claims that without the climate control working in the LM, it would have become so hot that the astronauts would have cooked .. He stated .. "That temperature inside is going to go up to 250 degrees fahrenheit and you're not gonna make it , cuz you're gonna cook long before that."

MoonFaker: Exhibit C. PART 3 ... Time stamp 1:56 is the interview with Bean.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nebxYU2PE6o

This seems to contradict other information about space crafts getting cold in a vacuum, when the power is lost or turned off and it also seems to contradict the information that Peter posted here about a vacuum having no heat except for directly on the surface of the Moon.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Duane Daman

[Dave Greer]

Here's where I got Bean's quote from ...This is one of the videos where Alan Bean claims that without the climate control working in the LM, it would have become so hot that the astronauts would have cooked .. He stated .. "That temperature inside is going to go up to 250 degrees fahrenheit and you're not gonna make it , cuz you're gonna cook long before that."

MoonFaker: Exhibit C. PART 3 ... Time stamp 1:56 is the interview with Bean.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nebxYU2PE6o

This seems to contradict other information about space crafts getting cold in a vacuum, when the power is lost or turned off

My gut instinct says that Bean made an error with this statement. I think the thermal protection of the LM would have prevented it getting that hot. The electrical systems on board the LM, and body heat from the astronauts may have contributed to the heating of the LM as well, how much I don't now. There may be some more information in the technical documentation from the time.

and it also seems to contradict the information that Peter posted here about a vacuum having no heat except for directly on the surface of the Moon.

For a LM on the surface, the only external heat sources would be radiated heat from the sun, and some residual heat conducted from the surface through the landing pads .

[Duane Daman]

My gut instinct says that Bean made an error with this statement. I think the thermal protection of the LM would have prevented it getting that hot. The electrical systems on board the LM, and body heat from the astronauts may have contributed to the heating of the LM as well, how much I don't now. There may be some more information in the technical documentation from the time.

Well, my gut instinct tells me that Alan Bean never walked on the Moon.

Then you agree with me that Alan Bean knows nothing about the true conditions of being on the lunar surface ?... Why would he think or say that the LM would have heated up to 250 degrees fahrenheit if the temperature control failed in the LM ? ... Don't you think NASA would have instructed him on exactly how hot or cold it would have gotten under those conditions and what to do in that type of emergency ?

He also knows nothing about flying through the Van Allen radiation belts or where they are even located .

He also knew nothing about how to fly the LM while he "looked at Conrad and wondered what he was doing. " ... Do you really believe that NASA would send two men to the lunar surface with only ONE of them knowing how to fly the craft that would get them off of it !?!?

He also didn't know not to point the very important TV camera towards the Sun, even after NASA instructed him not to.

He also didn't know that the descent engine was very loud ... Or was it Gene Cernan who didn't know that it was completely quiet ? ... I get a bit confused myself on that little contradiction.

He also painted pictures of his "memories" of being on the Moon but his paintings were nothing but gaudy recreations of the fake looking Apollo photos... one of which was missing the LM that was allegedy located behind his pal Pete's left shoulder.

Which brings us full circle around to the those faked Apollo 12 photos showing stage light reflections and missing LM's !

Yet we are suppossed to believe that this man flew to the Moon and walked on the lunar surface .... You can buy that story if you want to, but I don't.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Duane Daman

[Dave Greer]

My gut instinct says that Bean made an error with this statement. I think the thermal protection of the LM would have prevented it getting that hot. The electrical systems on board the LM, and body heat from the astronauts may have contributed to the heating of the LM as well, how much I don't now. There may be some more information in the technical documentation from the time.

Well, my gut instinct tells me that Alan Bean never walked on the Moon.

Then you agree with me that Alan Bean knows nothing about the true conditions of being on the lunar surface ?

No I don't agree. Alan Bean is/was as qualified as anyone on the subject, since he's one of just 12 men who've actually been there.

However, Alan Bean is an old man. I know nothing of his medical history, but it's not inconceivable that his memory isn't what it used to be. It's possible he may be confused over some details. I've heard the argument that all astronauts should remember every single detail about all aspects of the lunar trips, and any discrepancies in their memories are held up as evidence that they were lying or brainwashed. Does that apply to all walks of life, where old men who worked together 40 years ago fail to agree on details, or even say contradictory things?

There's also the distinct possibility that my gut instinct is wrong, and that the LM on the surface is at danger from overheating if the cooling system failed. The thermal protection may have mitigated the effect of solar radiation, but not provided 100% insulation. The LM on the surface wasn't doing a BBQ roll, and didn't have most of it's electrical systems switched off, unlike the LM in Apollo 13.

[James Douglas]

My gut instinct says that Bean made an error with this statement. I think the thermal protection of the LM would have prevented it getting that hot. The electrical systems on board the LM, and body heat from the astronauts may have contributed to the heating of the LM as well, how much I don't now. There may be some more information in the technical documentation from the time.

Well, my gut instinct tells me that Alan Bean never walked on the Moon.

Then you agree with me that Alan Bean knows nothing about the true conditions of being on the lunar surface ?

No I don't agree. Alan Bean is/was as qualified as anyone on the subject, since he's one of just 12 men who've actually been there.

However, Alan Bean is an old man. I know nothing of his medical history, but it's not inconceivable that his memory isn't what it used to be. It's possible he may be confused over some details. I've heard the argument that all astronauts should remember every single detail about all aspects of the lunar trips, and any discrepancies in their memories are held up as evidence that they were lying or brainwashed. Does that apply to all walks of life, where old men who worked together 40 years ago fail to agree on details, or even say contradictory things?

There's also the distinct possibility that my gut instinct is wrong, and that the LM on the surface is at danger from overheating if the cooling system failed. The thermal protection may have mitigated the effect of solar radiation, but not provided 100% insulation. The LM on the surface wasn't doing a BBQ roll, and didn't have most of it's electrical systems switched off, unlike the LM in Apollo 13.

I sincerely hope Alan Bean isn't going a touch senile about his trip to the moon because he has to re-live that experience continually to make a living by the looks of it.

http://www.alanbeangallery.com/

Not really to my tastes I'm afraid

[Peter McKenna]

My gut instinct says that Bean made an error with this statement. I think the thermal protection of the LM would have prevented it getting that hot. The electrical systems on board the LM, and body heat from the astronauts may have contributed to the heating of the LM as well, how much I don't now. There may be some more information in the technical documentation from the time.

Well, my gut instinct tells me that Alan Bean never walked on the Moon.

Then you agree with me that Alan Bean knows nothing about the true conditions of being on the lunar surface ?

No I don't agree. Alan Bean is/was as qualified as anyone on the subject, since he's one of just 12 men who've actually been there.

However, Alan Bean is an old man. I know nothing of his medical history, but it's not inconceivable that his memory isn't what it used to be. It's possible he may be confused over some details. I've heard the argument that all astronauts should remember every single detail about all aspects of the lunar trips, and any discrepancies in their memories are held up as evidence that they were lying or brainwashed. Does that apply to all walks of life, where old men who worked together 40 years ago fail to agree on details, or even say contradictory things?

There's also the distinct possibility that my gut instinct is wrong, and that the LM on the surface is at danger from overheating if the cooling system failed. The thermal protection may have mitigated the effect of solar radiation, but not provided 100% insulation. The LM on the surface wasn't doing a BBQ roll, and didn't have most of it's electrical systems switched off, unlike the LM in Apollo 13.

Dave,

During the flight of Apollo 13, did they modulate their environmental controls to save on power?

I'm not familiar with the specific of Apollo 13, but that flight might provide insight into the effects solar radiation and of the effects on the astronauts' environment. While trans-lunar didn't they have their air conditioning system secured for periods of time?

[Evan Burton]

During the flight of Apollo 13, did they modulate their environmental controls to save on power?

I'm not familiar with the specific of Apollo 13, but that flight might provide insight into the effects solar radiation and of the effects on the astronauts' environment. While trans-lunar didn't they have their air conditioning system secured for periods of time?

They shut it all down except for some cabin lights, the radio, and a fan to circulate the air.

After the initial accident, they had to set up the LM / CSM combination in the Passive Thermal Control roll (BBQ mode). This was considered very important - so important that the Flight Director and Deke Slayton were arguing over what should happen first: sleep or the PTC. Eventually it was decided that even though the crew were near exhaustion, the PTC had to be done. It took two or three attempts, but they got it established.

[Peter McKenna]

During the flight of Apollo 13, did they modulate their environmental controls to save on power?

I'm not familiar with the specific of Apollo 13, but that flight might provide insight into the effects solar radiation and of the effects on the astronauts' environment. While trans-lunar didn't they have their air conditioning system secured for periods of time?

They shut it all down except for some cabin lights, the radio, and a fan to circulate the air.

After the initial accident, they had to set up the LM / CSM combination in the Passive Thermal Control roll (BBQ mode). This was considered very important - so important that the Flight Director and Deke Slayton were arguing over what should happen first: sleep or the PTC. Eventually it was decided that even though the crew were near exhaustion, the PTC had to be done. It took two or three attempts, but they got it established.

Thanks Evan,

I'm no expert, but wouldn't the Apollo 13 flight demonstrate that solar radiation wasn't a concern with respect to either the astronauts or the camera on the moon? While trans-lunar, Apollo 13 would have had no shielding from solar radiation, and other than turning over (rotisserie style?), the craft cabin should have reached an equilibrium with the solar energy aborption of the module.

It seems to me that the issue of solar radiation on the lunar surface isn't one.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Peter McKenna

[Duane Daman]

Speaking of Apollo 13 ... It's looks like ... "Houston, we now have another problem ."

Man On The Moon? Part 5: Apollo 13 Stowaway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlKhybMPdQY

[Evan Burton]

Thanks Evan,

I'm no expert, but wouldn't the Apollo 13 flight demonstrate that solar radiation wasn't a concern with respect to either the astronauts or the camera on the moon? While trans-lunar, Apollo 13 would have had no shielding from solar radiation, and other than turning over (rotisserie style?), the craft cabin should have reached an equilibrium with the solar energy aborption of the module.

It seems to me that the issue of solar radiation on the lunar surface isn't one.

There is something about the solar radiation whilst on the lunar surface. I can't remember what it is, but I'll post it when I find it.

[Dave Greer]

I'm no expert, but wouldn't the Apollo 13 flight demonstrate that solar radiation wasn't a concern with respect to either the astronauts or the camera on the moon? While trans-lunar, Apollo 13 would have had no shielding from solar radiation, and other than turning over (rotisserie style?), the craft cabin should have reached an equilibrium with the solar energy aborption of the module.

It seems to me that the issue of solar radiation on the lunar surface isn't one.

That's why my gut instinct tells me the LM wouldn't have over-heated.

It's highly possible I've missed something though.

Thinking about it, they set up the BBQ roll presumably so that the side facing the sun didn't overheat. They didn't have that luxury while on the lunar surface.

Too many variables for a mere layperson like myself to come to a definite conclusion on this one.

[Duane Daman]

Well, that's a new tactic ... Usually when I post Apollo hoax evidence here it gets ripped to shreds by the Apollo apologists and then I get ripped to shreds for posting it .

So if you didn't like the Apollo 13 video clip that proves the entire " Houston, we have a problem " scene was STAGED ... Maybe you will enjoy this Alan Bean interview clip from the documentary 'Astronauts Gone Wild', that proves Mr. Bean never went to the Moon in a Lunar Module that he didn't even know how to fly.

The function of Apollo climate control

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_FyKuZHgY8M

Edited February 16, 2008 by Duane Daman

[Jack White]

Speaking of Apollo 13 ... It's looks like ... "Houston, we now have another problem ."

Man On The Moon? Part 5: Apollo 13 Stowaway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlKhybMPdQY

Excellent video, Duane!

Jack

[Dave Greer]

Speaking of Apollo 13 ... It's looks like ... "Houston, we now have another problem ."

Man On The Moon? Part 5: Apollo 13 Stowaway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlKhybMPdQY

Well you seem disappointed that noone replied to this one.

The premise is that a mystery "fourth person" held the camera while taking this 16mm footage of the inside of the Aquarius, the Apollo 13 LM which was effectively used as a lifeboat after an explosion crippled the CSM.

I haven't really heard a satisfactory explanation from anyone espousing this idea as to where exactly this film is supposed to have been taken from a hoax point of view, or why it required a mystery fourth person to take it, or where in the LM he was located.

It looks to me as if the data acquisition camera (DAC) was being held by the LM pilot (Fred Haise) while he stood at his station. The camera was firstly pointed at the Commander (Lovell) who was sat opposite Haise. You can also see Swigert sat on the engine bell.

The camera continues to pan round and until we see Haise looking out of the LM window.

I don't see a problem here: Haise was holding the 16mm DAC with his right had, and he twisted the camera round to finish pointing at himself. They were in zero gravity so the camera had no weight, which would make it easier to hold. In the latter part of the film segment, it's even possible that the camera was floating free.

Look at the two still images above. Look at how close to the RHS LM window the camera, compared to how close it is in the second still to the LHS LM window. Difficult to measure exactly, but clear enough to be able to say that the camera is certainly closer to the LHS window than the RHS window - which is what you'd expect if Haise was holding the camera (he's stood in front of the LHS window). For example, kin the second still, see how close the glare shield to the camera (it has some paperwork clipped to it).

How would this be possible if there was a fourth person in the LM? At the start of the segment, he would be behind the camera - with Haise behind him! There simply isn't enough room in the LM. Check out this cut-away of the LM which shows where Haise would be (in blue) - Swigert would be where the astronaut coloured in yellow is (Lovell would be sat with his back against the wall of the LM, under the RHS LM window, facing Haise). Would it really be possible for a fourth person to be stood to the right of Haise while holding the camera? I think it's physically impossible.

What I don't think is physically impossible, is holding a 16mm film camera with one hand, in zero gravity, then turning it around 180 degrees with a simple twist of the wrist.

Source

What does everyone else think?

Edited February 17, 2008 by Dave Greer