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Pat;

I just took a look at some of your works, and although you are attempting to correlate much of the information, there is also some confusion added in, in which you, without benefit of Mr. West knowledge, are unfortunately adding to the confusion.

1. Howelett's work of 11/30/63/aka the two shot impact drawing comes from the work done by Time/Life on 11/26/63 and their survey plat, which completely missed the shot down in front of James Altgens position.

The Time/Life work only has the first shot impact as well as the Z313 impact, and, the survey work is extremely inaccurate due to the haphazard work of none other than G.H. Breneman.

The actual measurements and angles are done so poorly that this work is only marginally above what one could do with a tape measure and a good hand held compass.

It would not constitute a "legal" survey in any court.

Breneman established only ONE SCP (survey control point) and thus did not take any "backshots" in which the person responsible for drawing the survey plat had a "check" as to verification of any errors. Thusly, any plotting error was carried through and thereafter compounded with any additional incurred errors.

Questions before moving on?

Tom

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However!

On the other hand, as many suspect, I just may be some aged "CIA operative" who has been given the responsibility of creating hate; dissent; and confusion among those scholoraly researchers who have resolved the "facts and truths" in that there were umpteen assassins in Dealy Plaza and after they got through, then JFK's body was kidnapped and the wounds altered to make things more confusing, and then the Autopsy Surgeons were paid off to falsify an autopsy on a body that had been kidnapped and had it's wounds altered.

Question? Exactly how could one go about adding any more confusion than that?

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This is what Paul D. Hardin had to work with in establishment of the Time/Life Survey Plat.

Due to the small scale of the plat, coupled with relatively inadequate and often poor information, the Time/Life Survey is only of some usage when one has the other survey notes and survey plats.

And, as I stated long ago, Mr. West clearly stated to me that they (survey personnel; SS;& FBI) repeatedly searched the streets and curbs in Dealy Plaza looking for bullet impact points, and the only one ever found was the "Tague" curb strike, which was ultimately surveyed in and placed onto the ORIGINAL WC Survey Plat.

P.S. Mr. Hancock! In event that you want a copy, get it now as there will be no more posting of the Time/Life survey notes of Breneman.

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http://www.patspeer.com/chapter2b:thesecretservicesecrets

" But that would mean Connally had lied when he'd said he was hit before the head shot. It would also mean that Connally, a former Secretary of the Navy, had crouched in self-protection a few feet from his President, when his President was under fire."

Actually! It was only a "small" lie/misrepresentation, as he had been struck in the wrist by a fragment from the Z313 headshot impact.

Personally, as I did in SE Asia (& survived I might add), I would have "ducked" as well.

Who would know that one was actually "ducking" over directly into the line of fire for the third/last/final shot, as one exposed their right shoulder between the open area between the jump seats.

"Quickly there was a second shot (John had turned to the right at the first shot to look back & had then whirled to the left to get another look---realized the President had been shot said "No, No, No)

Was hit and said "My God, they are are going to kill us all"--Wheeled back to the right crumpling his shoulders and his knees in the most unpleasant & pitiful position a tall big man could be in.

I reached over and pulled him to me & tried to get us both down in the car. Then came a third shot.

With John in my arms and still trying to stay down I did not see the third shot hit--but I felt something falling all over me. My sensation was of spent buckshot. My eyes saw bloody matter in tiny bits all over the car."

Nellie Connally's handwritten notes, made some 10 days after the event.

Not difficult for a bullet to pass through the back/chest and exit to strike the leg when one is in a somewhat "fetal" position.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shaneyf2.htm

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Starting with frame 171, going through frame 334.

Mr. SPECTER. And why did you start with frame 171?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is the frame that the slides start from. This was an arbitrary frame number that was decided on as being far enough back to include the area that we wanted to study.

Mr. SPECTER. Is that a frame where President Kennedy comes into full view after the motorcade turns left off of Houston onto Elm Street?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes, yes.

Mr. SPECTER. And how was the ending point of that frame sequence, being No. 334, fixed?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It was fixed as several frames past the shot that hit the President in the head. Frame 313 is the frame showing the shot to the President's head, and it ends at 334.

-----------------------------------------------

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z334.jpg

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Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car.

There was not another shot fired after the President was struck in the head. That was the last shot--that much I will say with a great degree of certainty.

There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head

I had refocused to 15 feet because I wanted a good closeup of the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and that's why I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera.

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http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...eport_0068a.htm

THE SHOT THAT MISSED

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Didn't Miss!

P.S. Exactly why would anyone believe the WC?

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Thanks, Tom, for your input. I would like to make my chapter as clear as possible. So you're saying that the drawing with the two impacts, and included in the early FBI report, was based on the Time/Life study? Is this the same study that was reported in newspaper accounts and FBI memos as a Secret Service study? The newspaper accounts made it sound like the SS study was on the 27th? Did it really take place on the 26th?

Also, did Howlett work with West on this study? or Breneman?

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Thanks, Tom, for your input. I would like to make my chapter as clear as possible. So you're saying that the drawing with the two impacts, and included in the early FBI report, was based on the Time/Life study? Is this the same study that was reported in newspaper accounts and FBI memos as a Secret Service study? The newspaper accounts made it sound like the SS study was on the 27th? Did it really take place on the 26th?

Also, did Howlett work with West on this study? or Breneman?

1. As you can see, according to the survey data block, the Time/Life work was done on 11/26/63.

And although I can not specifically recall all that was discussed with Mr. West in regards to the dates on the various survey's, it seems as though he stated that the survey work and survey plat were done the same date.

This, the Time/Life work, actually had three impact points, of which only two reportedly struck anyone.

The information was posted before, in that there is "K1" which when transposed to the larger WC Survey Plat utilizing the given Time/Life survey data, places the first shot impact at a point between Z204 to Z206.

Next, came "P" which stood for a pavement strike. However, this supposed impact location to the street is only approximately 17.5 feet farther down Elm St. from the "K1" impact point.

Mr. West and I discussed this and he stated that there was absolutely no indication of any bullet impact to the street.

Nevertheless, they/West were told to survey in this point as a pavement strike, and place it on the survey plat.

This purported "pavement strike" is what lead to Mr. West and I discussing any indications of any bullets striking pavement, sidewalk, curb, etc;. And, Mr. West clearly stated that multitudes of personnel, which included his crew as well as SS & FBI, had looked for any significant sign of such an impact and other than the "Tague" curb strike, there were none.

After the purported pavement strike came "K2" which is the Z313 head shot impact.

However, due to poor survey data, when Paul Hardin drew the survey plat up, the impact point is just about centered with where the yellow curb mark in the background (Moorman/Hill location) is.

This slight differentiation is nothing more than a "plotting" error on the part of Hardin due to the insufficient information which was provided for him to work with in plotting the actual location of the yellow curb mark as well as having angles which were turned to only the degree and minute, whereas "Legal" survey work (as well as accurate plotting information) must have the data to the degree/minute/& second.

That this is merely a "plotting " error becomes quite obvious when one takes the SS Survey plat and notes and follows up on it.

During the Time/Life work, a NAIL was installed directly in alignment from the Z-position, over the Z313 impact point of JFK, to the nail in the background.

This nail was referred to as the "Point in the Park", and when re-surveyed and platted during the far more accurate SS survey work, it placed JFK within a matter of only a few inches of where the WC determined as well.

So, in conclusion, the Time/Life survey plat had only two impacts to occupants of the car, and neither of these made any reference to injury to JBC and/or what bullet was responsible for this damage.

And, it was in fact the "beginning" which would later constitute the WC fairy tale of "THE SHOT THAT MISSED".

2. The SS "Study" was that work done through December 2, 3, & 4th, with the resulting Survey Plat dated December 5th, 1963.

The work by Breneman for Time/Life was done with no "topo" work of the surrounding areas; grade of Elm St.; and only a random/assumed elevation.

All of which when coupled with the lack of survey angles down to the second and lack of measurements to the nearest 0.1 ft, created a relatively inaccurate map.

Thus, when the SS decided to do there work, they had Mr. West carry true elevation control into Dealy Plaza, and as discussed with John Dolva (here) long ago, this was done from an established USGS marker which was just up from the corner of Elm & Houston St.

In this survey, Mr. West established multiple SCP (survey control points/stations) and in addition to taking shots from primary stations, also took "backshots" from these other stations as well.

All of which gave Paul Hardin considerably more accurate information with which to accurately work with and establish the SS Survey plat.

Thus, when the FBI as well as the WC did their assassination re-enactments, Mr. West merely utilized those SCP/stations which he had previously established, and that is why anything from one work can be easily transferred/transposed to another work.

In that regards, I have, as a "double check" often taken survey plat as well as survey note information from the SS and/or FBI works, and double checked this by actually plotting it onto the far larger scale WC survey plat.

Note: Time/Life; SS; & FBI plats were all on a scale of 1-inch = 20 feet.

WC Survey plat is on a scale of 1-inch = 10 feet.

3. I did not ask Mr. West for specific names relative to who? was involved in each of the survey works and survey re-enactments, and truthfully, he could not specifically recall names at that time.

He did recall Howlett due to the fact that Howlett came to his office when it was found that the FBI was now conducting another survey and re-enactment, and this is when he asked that he be provided with a copy of the FBI's survey plat.

This was a specific question which I had for Mr. West, since I had previously received the survey plats and survey information, and had seen Howlett's name and address written down on the copy of the plat.

The "survey information" gets completely confusing when one attempts to follow along on "Gauthier's" garbage.

Apparantly, Gauthier has made some attempt to make himself look important in the eyes of JEH, as his ramblings about vehicle speeds, etc; have no foundation and or basis in fact, and have only added confusion.

Along with his attempt to interject firing distances.

There is nothing that complicated about understanding the difference from each survey, as it was not until the WC that actual angles and distances to what would have been the elevation of JFK's head were utilized.

Previous works merely determined angles and distances to an impact point on Elm St.

Gauthier was somewhat "eat up" with how important his little tinker toy model of Dealy Plaza was, when in reality it would have been thrown out of virtually any courtroom in the land, as being worthless in determination of anything.

That Gauthier was JEH's "Boy" becomes quite obvious when it is observed that he was utilized to "slip" the altered survey data into evidence while keeping the actual WC survey plat in it's "sealed envelope" and admission of it into evidence.

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Mr. GAUTHIER. Yes; the tracing is wrapped, and sealed in this container.

Mr. SPECTER. Without breaking the seal, I will ask you if the cardboard which has been set up here--may the record show it is a large cardboard. I will ask you for the dimensions in just a minute.

Does the printing on the cardboard represent an exact duplication of the tracing which you have in your hand?

Mr. GAUTHIER. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. May it please the Commission, we will mark the tracing Commission Exhibit No. 882, and not take it out, since the cardboard represents it, and place Commission Exhibit No. 883 on the cardboard drawing itself, and I would like to move for the admission into evidence of both Exhibits Nos. 882 and 883.

The CHAIRMAN. They may be admitted.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At least the "record" shows that it was a "large cardboard" replica, even if it is not an EXACT replica.

Forgot to add!

Breneman, according to West, only worked on the Time/Life survey work.

Breneman was not an employee of Mr. West, and was only utilized when Mr. West had more work than he could handle.

Due to the "no notice" exercise of the Time/Life bunch, Mr. West's crews were already pretty well booked on other work.

Thus, he called Breneman to come in and assist in this work.

Other than that, Breneman did not participate in any of the other Survey Plat work, although he did show up at some point during some of these other works and Mr. West specifically recalled that he was there during one of those times when every one was searching and attempting to find any indication of a curb/pavement strike of a bullet.

Other than that, Mr. West did call Breneman in to help him when he got a call from the WC and they specifically wanted Mr. West to go out and measure the exact dimensions of the highway signs as well as their "EXACT" location in relationship to the the distance of the posts back from the sidewalks and from established/fixed points.

Edited by Thomas H. Purvis
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Tom: ""Who would know that one was actually "ducking" over directly into the line of fire for the third/last/final shot, as one exposed their right shoulder between the open area between the jump seats.

"Quickly there was a second shot (John had turned to the right at the first shot to look back & had then whirled to the left to get another look---realized the President had been shot said "No, No, No)

Was hit and said "My God, they are are going to kill us all"--Wheeled back to the right crumpling his shoulders and his knees in the most unpleasant & pitiful position a tall big man could be in.

I reached over and pulled him to me & tried to get us both down in the car. Then came a third shot.

With John in my arms and still trying to stay down I did not see the third shot hit--but I felt something falling all over me. My sensation was of spent buckshot. My eyes saw bloody matter in tiny bits all over the car."

Nellie Connally's handwritten notes, made some 10 days after the event.

Not difficult for a bullet to pass through the back/chest and exit to strike the leg when one is in a somewhat "fetal" position.""

***********************************************

Reply:

CONNALLY: Well, he's a hunter and a shooter, you know. So he turned quick...

KING: To his right?

CONNALLY: ... to his right and he couldn't see him because he was directly in front of him. And he said, "No, no, no" and turned to his left.

KING: He visibly said that?

CONNALLY: Yes. And turned to his left and he still couldn't see him. Now this is a second or two. Then, as he whirled back, the second shot hit John and...

KING: Where did it enter him?

CONNALLY: It went under his shoulder, out through -- under the nipple. It went through -- it took out five inches of his fifth rib and went through one of his lungs. He would -- which had all of that...

KING: I thought it hit his wrist.

CONNALLY: His -- he's turning back and his hand is on his thigh. It crushed this wrist and you know, shot the cufflink off.

KING: And you see him shot?

CONNALLY: Yes. And then it landed in his leg. Now, that bullet did all of that. John said, "My God, they're going to kill us all," and just fell over. Blood everywhere.

KING: Was there a third shot?

CONNALLY: There was a third shot.

KING: That's disputed, right?

CONNALLY: No. There's no dispute. You can't argue with me. You can argue with the Warren Commission. You can argue with anybody else, but they weren't in the car. And I was in that car. There were three shots. I have a recollection of all three. The third shot...

KING: What did the third one do?

CONNALLY: Well, I couldn't see it because I had the weight -- I had pulled John over in my lap to get him out of the line of fire. And I couldn't move. But I heard the third shot and then, bloody matter, like buck shot, little pieces were all over the interior of the car, all over our clothes.

KING: Was that Kennedy's brain?

CONNALLY: That was his head and I guess, his brain. And she said, "They've killed my husband. I have his brains in my hand."

KING: You heard her say that?

CONNALLY: I heard her say that.

KING: So you're hearing everything?

CONNALLY: Yes. But I -- but I was -- we were not saying anything. I was whispering to John, "Be still. It'll be all right."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0311/22/lkl.00.html

**********************

Nellie Connally, who was sitting next to her husband in the presidential limousine, always maintained that two bullets struck John F. Kennedy and a third hit her husband. "The first sound, the first shot, I heard, and turned and looked right into the President's face. He was clutching his throat, and just slumped down. He Just had a - a look of nothingness on his face. He-he didn't say anything. But that was the first shot. The second shot, that hit John - well, of course, I could see him covered with - with blood, and his - his reaction to a second shot. The third shot, even though I didn't see the President, I felt the matter all over me, and I could see it all over the car."

John Connally agreed with his wife: "Beyond any question, and I'll never change my opinion, the first bullet did not hit me. The second bullet did hit me. The third bullet did not hit me." As the Warren Commission concluded there also was a bullet that missed the car entirely. Some conspiracy theorists argue that if three bullets struck the men, as the Connallys insisted, and a fourth missed, then there must have been a second gunman because no one person could have fired four rounds from Oswald's bolt-action rifle so quickly.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKconnallyN.htm

**************************

Then, she wrote, John Connally "was hit himself by the second shot and said, `My God, they are going to kill us all!' "

According to her notes, that was followed by the third shot that passed through Kennedy's head.

She wrote: "With John in my arms and still trying to stay down ... I felt something falling all over me. ... My eyes saw bloody matter in tiny bits all over the car. Mrs. Kennedy was saying, `Jack! Jack! They have killed my husband! I have his brains in my hand.' "

http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/spe...1116nellie.html

*****************************

Quickly, there was a second shot. John had turned to the right to look back, and had whirled to the left to get another look to see if he could see the President...he couldn't." The Governor realized what had occurred and said, "No! No! No!" Connally was hit himself by the second shot and yelled, "My God, they are going to kill us all!" He was wheeled back to the right and down to his knees. Nellie tried to pull the two of them down to the floor of the car. Then came a third shot. "With John in my arms, and still trying to stay down, I did not see the third shot hit," Mrs. Connally went on, "but, I felt something falling all over me. My sensation was of spent buckshot. My eyes saw bloody matter in tiny bits all over the car." John Connally was bleeding badly and was motionless.

http://web.lconn.com/mysterease/connally.htm

************************************

I guess like Nellie says......

Nellie CONNALLY: No. There's no dispute. You can't argue with me. You can argue with the Warren Commission. You can argue with anybody else, but they weren't in the car. And I was in that car. There were three shots. I have a recollection of all three. The third shot...

""Tom : Not difficult for a bullet to pass through the back/chest and exit to strike the leg when one is in a somewhat "fetal" position."""

From what we have Zapruder frame 230.......Showing John Connally not in a somewhat fetal position.....

Whatever carry on....

B.......

Edited by Bernice Moore
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Tom: ""Who would know that one was actually "ducking" over directly into the line of fire for the third/last/final shot, as one exposed their right shoulder between the open area between the jump seats.

"Quickly there was a second shot (John had turned to the right at the first shot to look back & had then whirled to the left to get another look---realized the President had been shot said "No, No, No)

Was hit and said "My God, they are are going to kill us all"--Wheeled back to the right crumpling his shoulders and his knees in the most unpleasant & pitiful position a tall big man could be in.

I reached over and pulled him to me & tried to get us both down in the car. Then came a third shot.

With John in my arms and still trying to stay down I did not see the third shot hit--but I felt something falling all over me. My sensation was of spent buckshot. My eyes saw bloody matter in tiny bits all over the car."

Nellie Connally's handwritten notes, made some 10 days after the event.

Not difficult for a bullet to pass through the back/chest and exit to strike the leg when one is in a somewhat "fetal" position.""

***********************************************

Reply:

CONNALLY: Well, he's a hunter and a shooter, you know. So he turned quick...

KING: To his right?

CONNALLY: ... to his right and he couldn't see him because he was directly in front of him. And he said, "No, no, no" and turned to his left.

KING: He visibly said that?

CONNALLY: Yes. And turned to his left and he still couldn't see him. Now this is a second or two. Then, as he whirled back, the second shot hit John and...

KING: Where did it enter him?

CONNALLY: It went under his shoulder, out through -- under the nipple. It went through -- it took out five inches of his fifth rib and went through one of his lungs. He would -- which had all of that...

KING: I thought it hit his wrist.

CONNALLY: His -- he's turning back and his hand is on his thigh. It crushed this wrist and you know, shot the cufflink off.

KING: And you see him shot?

CONNALLY: Yes. And then it landed in his leg. Now, that bullet did all of that. John said, "My God, they're going to kill us all," and just fell over. Blood everywhere.

KING: Was there a third shot?

CONNALLY: There was a third shot.

KING: That's disputed, right?

CONNALLY: No. There's no dispute. You can't argue with me. You can argue with the Warren Commission. You can argue with anybody else, but they weren't in the car. And I was in that car. There were three shots. I have a recollection of all three. The third shot...

KING: What did the third one do?

CONNALLY: Well, I couldn't see it because I had the weight -- I had pulled John over in my lap to get him out of the line of fire. And I couldn't move. But I heard the third shot and then, bloody matter, like buck shot, little pieces were all over the interior of the car, all over our clothes.

KING: Was that Kennedy's brain?

CONNALLY: That was his head and I guess, his brain. And she said, "They've killed my husband. I have his brains in my hand."

KING: You heard her say that?

CONNALLY: I heard her say that.

KING: So you're hearing everything?

CONNALLY: Yes. But I -- but I was -- we were not saying anything. I was whispering to John, "Be still. It'll be all right."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0311/22/lkl.00.html

**********************

Nellie Connally, who was sitting next to her husband in the presidential limousine, always maintained that two bullets struck John F. Kennedy and a third hit her husband. "The first sound, the first shot, I heard, and turned and looked right into the President's face. He was clutching his throat, and just slumped down. He Just had a - a look of nothingness on his face. He-he didn't say anything. But that was the first shot. The second shot, that hit John - well, of course, I could see him covered with - with blood, and his - his reaction to a second shot. The third shot, even though I didn't see the President, I felt the matter all over me, and I could see it all over the car."

John Connally agreed with his wife: "Beyond any question, and I'll never change my opinion, the first bullet did not hit me. The second bullet did hit me. The third bullet did not hit me." As the Warren Commission concluded there also was a bullet that missed the car entirely. Some conspiracy theorists argue that if three bullets struck the men, as the Connallys insisted, and a fourth missed, then there must have been a second gunman because no one person could have fired four rounds from Oswald's bolt-action rifle so quickly.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKconnallyN.htm

**************************

Then, she wrote, John Connally "was hit himself by the second shot and said, `My God, they are going to kill us all!' "

According to her notes, that was followed by the third shot that passed through Kennedy's head.

She wrote: "With John in my arms and still trying to stay down ... I felt something falling all over me. ... My eyes saw bloody matter in tiny bits all over the car. Mrs. Kennedy was saying, `Jack! Jack! They have killed my husband! I have his brains in my hand.' "

http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/spe...1116nellie.html

*****************************

Quickly, there was a second shot. John had turned to the right to look back, and had whirled to the left to get another look to see if he could see the President...he couldn't." The Governor realized what had occurred and said, "No! No! No!" Connally was hit himself by the second shot and yelled, "My God, they are going to kill us all!" He was wheeled back to the right and down to his knees. Nellie tried to pull the two of them down to the floor of the car. Then came a third shot. "With John in my arms, and still trying to stay down, I did not see the third shot hit," Mrs. Connally went on, "but, I felt something falling all over me. My sensation was of spent buckshot. My eyes saw bloody matter in tiny bits all over the car." John Connally was bleeding badly and was motionless.

http://web.lconn.com/mysterease/connally.htm

************************************

I guess like Nellie says......

Nellie CONNALLY: No. There's no dispute. You can't argue with me. You can argue with the Warren Commission. You can argue with anybody else, but they weren't in the car. And I was in that car. There were three shots. I have a recollection of all three. The third shot...

""Tom : Not difficult for a bullet to pass through the back/chest and exit to strike the leg when one is in a somewhat "fetal" position."""

From what we have Zapruder frame 230.......Showing John Connally not in a somewhat fetal position.....

Whatever carry on....

B.......

1. In a radio interview from Parkland Hospital, JBC stated that he turned and saw the President.

Thereafter, he has always denied that he saw him.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z275.jpg

If he did not see JFK, then he must have had his eyes closed.

2. Nellie is correct about the loss of the gold coin cufflink. Unfortunately, it was never recovered, which is indicative that it was blown out of the car.

Kinda hard to do if one has there hand down almost in their lap when the bullet strikes.

Mr. HOLLAND - Well, it was pretty loud, and naturally, underneath this underpass here it would be a little louder, the concussion from underneath it, it was a pretty loud report, and the car traveled a few yards, and Governor Connally turned in this fashion, like that [indicating] with his hand out, and another report.

Mr. STERN - With his right hand out?

Mr. HOLLAND - Turning to his right.

Mr. STERN - To his right?

Mr. HOLLAND - And another report rang out and he slumped down in his seat,

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z312.jpg

CONNALLY: Yes. And then it landed in his leg. Now, that bullet did all of that. John said, "My God, they're going to kill us all," and just fell over. Blood everywhere.

Dr. SHAW - About 10 centimeters of the fifth rib starting at the, about the mid-axillary line and going to the anterior axillary line, as we describe it, or that would be the midline at the armpit going to the anterior lateral portion of the chest had been stripped away by the missile.

Dr. SHAW - This was not noticed at the time of this examination, Mr. Specter. However, in subsequent examinations we can tell that there was a fracture across the rib at this point due to the rib being struck and bent.

Mr. SPECTER - When you say this point, will you describe where that point exists on the X-ray?

Dr. SHAW - This is a point approximately 4 centimeters from its connection with the transverse process of the spine.

Mr. SPECTER - And is the fracture, which is located there, caused by a striking there or by the striking at the end of the rib?

Dr. SHAW - It is caused by the striking at the end of the rib.

It was found that the middle lobe had been lacerated with the laceration dividing the lobe into roughly two equal parts. The laceration ran from the lower tip of the middle lobe up into its root or hilum.

Dr. SHAW - Yes; but in the case of a wound which strikes a bony substance such as a rib, usually the reaction is quite prompt.

Mr. McCLOY - Yes.

Dr. SHAW - Yes.

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Run that by someone who has either been hit or has seen someone hit in a similiar manner and see exactly how many could start yelling "My God, they are going to kill us all' after having 4-inches of the rib bone blown into the lung and virtually cutting one lobe of the lung in half.

First off, they generally can not even "yell" as they are now a "one-lunger".

Secondly, about the only yelling that generally occurs is a somewhat god-awful gasping and gurgling moan.

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From Topic: SS Agent J.J. Howlett, Viewed and analyzed Zapruder film

I do not agree with all of the Purvis conclusions, but the matter of the DP plats reveals

that something suspicious was taking place and should be deciphered.

Jack

Recommended Topic Reading:

The "Genesis" of Conspiracy

There is actually little that is that complicated in regards to the Survey Re-enactments of the assassination.

However, when one starts throwing in those distances, etc; such as those from Gauthier, along with his hypothetical speeds, even I get confused and for the most part I understand it.

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I have moved that portion of the FBI 2/7/64 attachmet to here in order that another important issue can be again pointed out.

This too was long ago brought to the surface and John Dolva and I discussed it.

Perhaps there are those who are new here and who are unaware of how much the survey work reveals the duplicity of the FBI as well as WC.

I would remind, that this attachement is actually what is on CE585

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0144b.htm

with the exception that this work had drawn in the impact point of the Z313 shot (in pencil) for the reference of SS Agent Howlett.

Beginning with the first shot impact point, which point is clearly established, and which point the SS work of 12/5/63 (survey plat date, work done on 12/2, 3, & 4) is exactly the same.

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Now, as regards the first shot impact point, it is of course nice to know that almost a month after the completion of the WC Survey work and assassination re-enactment, the FBI was still insistent on confirmation that JFK was hit at/by that point on the street which had street elevation 423.07.

Whereas, if one will recall the WC and it's "circular reasoning", they could only come up with the Z313 impact shot and "THE SHOT THAT MISSED"

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...eport_0068a.htm

(Which discussion I might add, is highly similiar in reasoning of some of the answers we would get from George P. Schultz, back when I worked for Bechtel.)

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In moving along, and STICKING to the direct line*, of the first shot impact location at street elevation 423.07, one will find that this happens to be Mr. West's "Bench Mark" aka/SCP/Survey Control Station as well as being the impact point for Shot#1.

In fact, as I have repeatedly mentioned, for anyone that enjoys "dodging traffic", to a relatively high degree of probability, the nail which Mr. West drove down into the asphalt of Elm St. is in all probability still there.

Merely covered over with a few additional inches of asphalt.

However, any good surveyor with a "pin locator" could easily find this nail. (Of course he could just as easily get run over while attempting to do so)

*For those who have done geneological work, they would recognize how simple it is to vear off the "direct" line of descendents and thusly get lost into the other various family lines.

In that regards, one just about has to stick with the "direct line" first, and thereafter work on those branches afterwards.

Or perhaps it is merely us dumb ole country boys who are limited in capability and can only think of one thing at a time!

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Now, some of us ole country boys may not be that smart! However, we are smart enough to recognize that something is extremely wrong with a concept in which an ivestigative body/aka the WC, with all of the evidence at hand, can not resolve confirmed points on Elm St. at which it can be clearly established that JFK had been hit, when in fact:

1. Time/Life had been able, by some means to do so.

2. The US Secret Service, in December of 1963 had done so.

3. The FBI in February of 1964 had done so.

4. The WC, well prior to their assassination re-enactment charade, had in their hands the exact same information which the FBI and the SS had in regards to the first shot impact, and were in fact giving this information to the US Army Weapons Evaluation Branch for weapon speed of operation v. accuracy determination.

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Mr. EISENBERG. Could you explain your reference to a map? You have made several references to that.

Mr. SIMMONS. I refer to the survey plat which is dated December 5, 1963.

Mr. EISENBERG. And how were you supplied with that?

Mr. SIMMONS. To the best of my knowledge, you gave it to one of the employees in my office.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, this is a plat made by a licensed surveyor of the area immediately adjoining the Texas School Book Depository. I would like to introduce it into evidence solely to show the basis which Mr. Simmons was using in his test, and not for the truth, of the measurements which are shown in here.

Mr. McCLOY. It may be received.

Mr. EISENBERG. That would be Commission 585.

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And one can rest assured that had Ronald Simmons NOT brought the subject matter of the "map" up, then we would have never seen it within the WC documents.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0144b.htm

And even then, few were even aware of it's existence until such time as I have BROADCAST repeatedly, on this TV station, the importance of this well hidden information.

And for now on the subject matter, what is almost as important, is this.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0139a.htm

This drawing, which Melvin Eisenberg, of the "Let's hide the FBI Survey Plat" fame, gave to FBI Agent Frazier on 3/27/64, is critical in understanding that the WC, prior to their "Charade in the Park"/aka assassination re-enactment, knew beyond any reason where shot impacts were, as one could not come up with those impact elevations as demonstrated on the Eisenberg drawing without having full access to the US Secret Service assassination survey work as well as the FBI survey work.

And, prior to the WC having even visited Dealy Plaza, they were giving out information relative to shot impact locations which they could not have known without having the prior works in their possession.

Now, if one will only pay attention to the first shot impact point at street elevation 423.07, then we can later on work backwards through the Z313 impact point at the 418 street elevation.

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