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"I say I saw JFK get assassinated. I saw we were sent in to stop it or as I have said long ago "ABORT IT"" Tosh

I have heard of a theory that the Assassination was going to be fake or it was going to be real and Oswald was going to help abort the thing. How? By standing at the Coke machine? (I can't help but interject that Nixon was in Dallas that day for Pepsi. Pepsi - Coke - get it?) Then the people who wanted a fake assassination -- the purpose to scare America into invading Cuba, as people would think it was a real attempt -- were infiltrated, unbeknownst to them, by real assassination plotters who succeeded.

Tosh, if you were there, why? Were you trying to stop the assassination? If so, by what means -- hiding in the shadow of a tree some distance away from the action, so to speak? What were you doing to prevent the assassination? Did you know where the assassins were?

Please respond as I am very curious about this.

Kathy Collins

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"I say I saw JFK get assassinated. I saw we were sent in to stop it or as I have said long ago "ABORT IT"" Tosh

I have heard of a theory that the Assassination was going to be fake or it was going to be real and Oswald was going to help abort the thing. How? By standing at the Coke machine? (I can't help but interject that Nixon was in Dallas that day for Pepsi. Pepsi - Coke - get it?) Then the people who wanted a fake assassination -- the purpose to scare America into invading Cuba, as people would think it was a real attempt -- were infiltrated, unbeknownst to them, by real assassination plotters who succeeded.

Tosh, if you were there, why? Were you trying to stop the assassination? If so, by what means -- hiding in the shadow of a tree some distance away from the action, so to speak? What were you doing to prevent the assassination? Did you know where the assassins were?

Please respond as I am very curious about this.

Kathy Collins

Kathleen:

I too, have heard the theory that you mentioned. However, I do not know about that and can't be of much help in that direction. Your other questions have been addressed in detail in scattered places on this forum and at other places for a number of years now. It was detailed to some degree in a post "Flight to Dallas", I think, and posted some years ago. None the less, I will be as brief as I can in responds to your questions. Perhaps others here can bring some of those post forward and therein some of your questions will be answered in more detail.

"...Tosh, if you were there, why?...".

Information had been received from Military INTEL and CIA Miami Station that a hit was going to be made on the President. The information had been obtained from two people who were going to fire a Bazooka on Air Force One, at West Palm Beach Florida, approximately November 17, 1963. From that interrogation (I was told) of these two people came the information and it was passed to JM/WAVE and to our case officers at West Palm Beach. I was one of the pilots that flew the team into Dallas. I was not "mission operational", at that time other than the pilot. The details of how and why that mission came together I would not know. I was not at the clearance level to know. Most of those details would be reveled to me later. (Some of those details came many years later)

"...Were you trying to stop the assassination?...".

Yes.. I was asked by Sergio, at Red Bird, if I wanted to go and see the President, Otherwise I would just hang out at Red Bird Airport as I had done on most other transportation type missions. Sergio explained most of the details of what his part was in the overall mission. He was a "Spotter" I did know bits and pieces, but most of the details came from my case officer, Bob Bennett and Sergio. Most of the team did not think much of the mission. They, as well as I, thought it just another wild goose chase and there was nothing to it. There had been many threats and rumors as to the assassination of the Presidents during that time frame. I had worked Dallas with MI on other matters, and was familiar with the area and knew some of the Dallas Cubans as well as knowing of LHO. They, the Dallas Cubans, were NOT involved in any way concerning the assassination. But they were heavily involved in Gun Running to southern Florida and the Cuban exile community)

"...If so, by what means --What were you doing to prevent the assassination?...".

Sergio's was one of many "spotters". His job was to secure the south side of the Plaza and the south parking lot. Other spotters were working the north side and that parking lot as well as the rail road tracks and overpass. There was communication between all personal on the mission. Sergio had a communication device and I had a clip board and a pair of binoculars. Our communication was spoty at best. nothing worked right. It has been said that I said "we were there to take them out". I have said that, BUT it has been taken out of context. We were there to get close enough to disrupt their, (the assassins) timing and to quickly remove them from the threat. To "take them out" was not meant to shoot them or have a gun fight, like some have said. If that had happened then there would have been a fire fight in the Plaza that day and many, other than the President, would have been killed. As I have said before..if that had happened.... "It would have been a real blood bath... two factions fighting it out in the Plaza".

"... hiding in the shadow of a tree some distance away from the action, so to speak?..."

We were not hiding in the shadows. We were working our (Sergio's) section. We had just completed our walk through the south parking lot where we saw nothing unusual and had walked past the steps by the fork tree and turned to walk back toward the overpass. The shots were fired at about the time we were just west of the steps and in the shadows of the tree. At that point we knew the mission had failed and it was our job to get out of the area. The team was not to be known about for obvious reasons. ( The reaso for confrimation of the South Knoll Photo about two people standing in the shadows of the tree)

I know this does not address all your questions and it would take pages and pages, perhaps books to answer all of them. However, I too, would like some answers about that day and that is why I joined this forum and have tried to help the research community and in turn get some help from them on my questions... That has not worked..... I think its a lost cause today... This story is to far fetched for anyone to believe today, or yesterday for that matter. The record has been lost and only new releases and other documentation will perhaps someday come to surface, but by then I will be long gone and that is the way it is suppose to be.

"...;Did you know where the assassins were?...".

NO. We were checking for triangulation crossfire that would be used as a sniper attack method. Each section had been divided up and parts of the team went into areas where a sniper would or should be located. It was a type of walk through, spotting most likely places and then getting close enough to wreck their timing on hence "take them out". We failed in that. In fact the whole mission was a mess from start to finish. We were late, getting to the Plaza. And the flight into Dallas was a wreck waiting to happen, weather delays and etc.

A question I have been asked many times... "Could some on your team have been assassins?".

Yes. Could have been. But that is speculation. But I do not think so. Because of the way some (most) of the teams reaction as to the failure. If it was an attack team then I think they would have been overjoyed that they had carried it off. That was not the case. Nobody on our flight was happy about the chain of events. Nor were any team members taken out that day..

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Good Morning, Tosh,

Am I correct to assume that the threat to which your team was responding was specific to Dealey Plaza, as opposed to any other location in and around Dallas?

If not, then either there were other abort teams from Love Field to the Trade Mart, or your guys just got lucky -- so to speak.

Prior to JFK's arrival in the Plaza, did you and/or any other members of the team take note of unnaturally thin security measures there? I speak of the absence of a full security contingent on the ground, open and unguarded windows, violations of Secret Service motorcade protocols related to sharp turns on the route, etc.?

If such deficiencies had been noted PRIOR to the president's approach to the Plaza, am I correct to assume that you would have realized that this threat was anything but a false alarm and thus acted in a more pro-active or aggressive manner?

How do you account for the failure of other team members to clear the knoll and/or other possible shooter locations?

Finally, I strongly suspect that you and your team were sent to Dealey Plaza in order to be scapegoated as false sponsors and/or to muddy the waters for honest investigators. Does this make sense to you?

Be well,

Charles

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Good Morning, Tosh,

Am I correct to assume that the threat to which your team was responding was specific to Dealey Plaza, as opposed to any other location in and around Dallas?

If not, then either there were other abort teams from Love Field to the Trade Mart, or your guys just got lucky -- so to speak.

Prior to JFK's arrival in the Plaza, did you and/or any other members of the team take note of unnaturally thin security measures there? I speak of the absence of a full security contingent on the ground, open and unguarded windows, violations of Secret Service motorcade protocols related to sharp turns on the route, etc.?

If such deficiencies had been noted PRIOR to the president's approach to the Plaza, am I correct to assume that you would have realized that this threat was anything but a false alarm and thus acted in a more pro-active or aggressive manner?

How do you account for the failure of other team members to clear the knoll and/or other possible shooter locations?

Finally, I strongly suspect that you and your team were sent to Dealey Plaza in order to be scapegoated as false sponsors and/or to muddy the waters for honest investigators. Does this make sense to you?

Be well,

Charles

XXXX

"...Am I correct to assume that the threat to which your team was responding was specific to Dealey Plaza, as opposed to any other location in and around Dallas?..".

I was told sometime after the assassination that the Adolphs Hotel was a strong possibility and that was the location first learned about from information received from Miami, but it was changed at the last minute to the Plaza. By who I have no idea.. As I have said I was not at the level to know all the planning steps involved. Some of what I knew then and know now and came after the fact and in conversations with those involved in the team..

. "...If not, then either there were other abort teams from Love Field to the Trade Mart, or your guys just got lucky so to speak."..

Well, I don't know about "Lucky". At the time I did not know about any other abort teams, or assassin teams for that matter.. A few years later from Bernard Finisterwald the Trade Mart teams were mentioned, but I knew nothing about them and he did not say abort or assassin teams.

"...Prior to JFK's arrival in the Plaza, did you and/or any other members of the team take note of unnaturally thin security measures there? I speak of the absence of a full security contingent on the ground, open and unguarded windows, violations of Secret Service motorcade protocols related to sharp turns on the route, etc.?...".

Yes. Sergio mentioned this many times. In fact it was mentioned on radio. "Where is everybody?". Communication breakdown was common. People were not where they were suppose to be and the north side was in an "out of control" state of mind. Security for a President was very thin and I thought at the time a set up. It was a very uneasy feeling for both Sergio and I. We did look at the windows and surrounding area and we felt very uneasy about the openness of the Plaza and no protection. I have said this many times to investigators.

"...If such deficiencies had been noted PRIOR to the president's approach to the Plaza, am I correct to assume that you would have realized that this threat was anything but a false alarm and thus acted in a more pro-active or aggressive manner?

IF we had all the information and IF we had known more and believe a real threat was emmient, then we would have been more diligent in our work and perhaps things would have worked out different.

"...How do you account for the failure of other team members to clear the knoll and/or other possible shooter locations?

Anything on that would be speculation on my part. I feel they did not think there was a real threat. I think they felt that the Presidents security had the area under control before we got there.. It was not our responsibility to clear the area after we got there. That was suppose to have already been done.

"... Finally, I strongly suspect that you and your team were sent to Dealey Plaza in order to be scapegoated as false sponsors and/or to muddy the waters for honest investigators. Does this make sense to you?...".

To some degree, yes. However, as I have said I was not at the level to know the whys and so fourths or the inside planning of the mission. However, the fact that the information came from the Pentagon and MI and relayed via CIA makes me think it was a real abort team. If this is a fact as to what you say. Then I would have to think that higher ups from within the WH got the information at the same time we got it and they tampered with the planning and sent in false personal to confuse the issue and open the door for the attack by others. I would have to look at SS security that had direct contact with personal in the WH.

"...Be well, Charles .....".

You take care.... Tosh

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Tosh,

You have stated that the overpass railroad tracks in 1963 were on a raised bed (4 to 5 feet high as I recall). But photos from the time do not reflect this. In CE2214 (below), the rails themselves do look higher than I remember normal rails being (though the images are of poor quality). But the rails and crossties are not on a raised bed. Can you comment on this? Thanks,

Ron

CE2214.jpg

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"I say I saw JFK get assassinated. I saw we were sent in to stop it or as I have said long ago "ABORT IT"" Tosh

I have heard of a theory that the Assassination was going to be fake or it was going to be real and Oswald was going to help abort the thing. How? By standing at the Coke machine? (I can't help but interject that Nixon was in Dallas that day for Pepsi. Pepsi - Coke - get it?) Then the people who wanted a fake assassination -- the purpose to scare America into invading Cuba, as people would think it was a real attempt -- were infiltrated, unbeknownst to them, by real assassination plotters who succeeded.

Tosh, if you were there, why? Were you trying to stop the assassination? If so, by what means -- hiding in the shadow of a tree some distance away from the action, so to speak? What were you doing to prevent the assassination? Did you know where the assassins were?

Please respond as I am very curious about this.

Kathy Collins

Kathleen:

I too, have heard the theory that you mentioned. However, I do not know about that and can't be of much help in that direction. Your other questions have been addressed in detail in scattered places on this forum and at other places for a number of years now. It was detailed to some degree in a post "Flight to Dallas", I think, and posted some years ago. None the less, I will be as brief as I can in responds to your questions. Perhaps others here can bring some of those post forward and therein some of your questions will be answered in more detail.

"...Tosh, if you were there, why?...".

Information had been received from Military INTEL and CIA Miami Station that a hit was going to be made on the President. The information had been obtained from two people who were going to fire a Bazooka on Air Force One, at West Palm Beach Florida, approximately November 17, 1963. From that interrogation (I was told) of these two people came the information and it was passed to JM/WAVE and to our case officers at West Palm Beach. I was one of the pilots that flew the team into Dallas. I was not "mission operational", at that time other than the pilot. The details of how and why that mission came together I would not know. I was not at the clearance level to know. Most of those details would be reveled to me later. (Some of those details came many years later)

"...Were you trying to stop the assassination?...".

Yes.. I was asked by Sergio, at Red Bird, if I wanted to go and see the President, Otherwise I would just hang out at Red Bird Airport as I had done on most other transportation type missions. Sergio explained most of the details of what his part was in the overall mission. He was a "Spotter" I did know bits and pieces, but most of the details came from my case officer, Bob Bennett and Sergio. Most of the team did not think much of the mission. They, as well as I, thought it just another wild goose chase and there was nothing to it. There had been many threats and rumors as to the assassination of the Presidents during that time frame. I had worked Dallas with MI on other matters, and was familiar with the area and knew some of the Dallas Cubans as well as knowing of LHO. They, the Dallas Cubans, were NOT involved in any way concerning the assassination. But they were heavily involved in Gun Running to southern Florida and the Cuban exile community)

"...If so, by what means --What were you doing to prevent the assassination?...".

Sergio's was one of many "spotters". His job was to secure the south side of the Plaza and the south parking lot. Other spotters were working the north side and that parking lot as well as the rail road tracks and overpass. There was communication between all personal on the mission. Sergio had a communication device and I had a clip board and a pair of binoculars. Our communication was spoty at best. nothing worked right. It has been said that I said "we were there to take them out". I have said that, BUT it has been taken out of context. We were there to get close enough to disrupt their, (the assassins) timing and to quickly remove them from the threat. To "take them out" was not meant to shoot them or have a gun fight, like some have said. If that had happened then there would have been a fire fight in the Plaza that day and many, other than the President, would have been killed. As I have said before..if that had happened.... "It would have been a real blood bath... two factions fighting it out in the Plaza".

"... hiding in the shadow of a tree some distance away from the action, so to speak?..."

We were not hiding in the shadows. We were working our (Sergio's) section. We had just completed our walk through the south parking lot where we saw nothing unusual and had walked past the steps by the fork tree and turned to walk back toward the overpass. The shots were fired at about the time we were just west of the steps and in the shadows of the tree. At that point we knew the mission had failed and it was our job to get out of the area. The team was not to be known about for obvious reasons. ( The reaso for confrimation of the South Knoll Photo about two people standing in the shadows of the tree)

I know this does not address all your questions and it would take pages and pages, perhaps books to answer all of them. However, I too, would like some answers about that day and that is why I joined this forum and have tried to help the research community and in turn get some help from them on my questions... That has not worked..... I think its a lost cause today... This story is to far fetched for anyone to believe today, or yesterday for that matter. The record has been lost and only new releases and other documentation will perhaps someday come to surface, but by then I will be long gone and that is the way it is suppose to be.

"...;Did you know where the assassins were?...".

NO. We were checking for triangulation crossfire that would be used as a sniper attack method. Each section had been divided up and parts of the team went into areas where a sniper would or should be located. It was a type of walk through, spotting most likely places and then getting close enough to wreck their timing on hence "take them out". We failed in that. In fact the whole mission was a mess from start to finish. We were late, getting to the Plaza. And the flight into Dallas was a wreck waiting to happen, weather delays and etc.

A question I have been asked many times... "Could some on your team have been assassins?".

Yes. Could have been. But that is speculation. But I do not think so. Because of the way some (most) of the teams reaction as to the failure. If it was an attack team then I think they would have been overjoyed that they had carried it off. That was not the case. Nobody on our flight was happy about the chain of events. Nor were any team members taken out that day..

*************************************************************

"Information had been received from Military INTEL and CIA Miami Station that a hit was going to be made on the President. The information had been obtained from two people who were going to fire a Bazooka on Air Force One, at West Palm Beach Florida, approximately November 17, 1963. From that interrogation (I was told) of these two people came the information and it was passed to JM/WAVE and to our case officers at West Palm Beach. I was one of the pilots that flew the team into Dallas. I was not "mission operational," at that time other than the pilot. The details of how and why that mission came together I would not know. I was not at the clearance level to know. Most of those details would be revealed to me later. (Some of those details came many years later)"

"I was told sometime after the assassination that the Adolphs Hotel was a strong possibility and that was the location first learned about from information received from Miami, but it was changed at the last minute to the Plaza. By who I have no idea... As I have said I was not at the level to know all the planning steps involved. Some of what I knew then and know now and came after the fact and in conversations with those involved in the team..."

Excellent examples of "compartmentalization," inherent in pretty much any detail or operation meted out by those agencies involved, on a regular basis.

The nature of the "job" description, or "non-description," if you will. All the better to maintain total control of all the operatives in the field, by the upper echelon producing the show, IMHO.

Thanks for hanging in here, Bill, for fielding all the inquiries, and answering them to the best of your ability. Especially, considering the conditions you were forced to work under on that particular day. You're a most obliging and engaging person to have put up with all the "bonafide" researchers and authors, the hack-job disinfo's and misinfo's, as well as with the students.

You're doing a stand-up job, my friend.

Ter

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I think Charles makes is a very interesting point. We know that much was done to confuse those who would come later. The assassination itself was well thought out down to the last detail, but the confusion and lack of communication Tosh describes reeks of planning. And certainly reflects a kind of war within the CIA itself, akin to the factions Oglesby would later write about. A genuine 'coup. Tosh I sure hope WB comes through for Peter with some of the documents you need. All Jay's work, just rotting away.

Dawn

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Tosh,

You have stated that the overpass railroad tracks in 1963 were on a raised bed (4 to 5 feet high as I recall). But photos from the time do not reflect this. In CE2214 (below), the rails themselves do look higher than I remember normal rails being (though the images are of poor quality). But the rails and crossties are not on a raised bed. Can you comment on this? Thanks,

Ron

CE2214.jpg

Thanks Ron. Yes I have said the RR tracks were raised, as I remember, more than what they are now, approximately four or five feet I stated. The picture you posted is not clear and to some degree looking down on the tracks and cannot be of much help in showing the elevation of the raised RR bed and the cross ties . However, if you look at a picture from a head on view(looking west) toward the overpass) I think you will see this raised RR bed more clearly. When we crossed the tracks the base of the overpass was at a line at about the bottom of the banister railing and the crushed rock, ties, and tracks were much higher.

Sometime after the metro this elevation was changed. Today the tracks are still raised on the RR bed, but not as high because the metro is not as heavy as regular trains. Also there is or was a permit to that effect with the City of Dallas and MKT started the metro project, when the Metro was planned. Sometime back a picture of this change was shown, taken from the same level as the base of the overpass looking south, and those tracks are about two feet high of so. Perhaps someone can post this picture. I think it was taken by Tim Carrol before he died and posted on this forum. Today you can see the finish grade of the old base of the overpass before the bed of the RR was built or laid. (an overlay of crushed rock was put over the bridge base and thetracks and ties were put on that crushed base of rock for support of the weight of the trains.

Also there were about two sets of tracks that were graded toward the north (on a down hill toward the north) from the overpass so as to allow freight cars to free roll toward the tower and rail yard. That is called " Free Stacking". It was used a lot to get freight cars into position without the locomotive having to pull or push them into position. That was the reason or one of the reasons for the rail bed being so high above the overpass base line.

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I think Charles makes is a very interesting point. We know that much was done to confuse those who would come later. The assassination itself was well thought out down to the last detail, but the confusion and lack of communication Tosh describes reeks of planning. And certainly reflects a kind of war within the CIA itself, akin to the factions Oglesby would later write about. A genuine 'coup. Tosh I sure hope WB comes through for Peter with some of the documents you need. All Jay's work, just rotting away.

Dawn

Yes Dawn. I too, hope this will come forward. I have blocked out a few days so as to answer questions. It takes a lot of time and typing to do this. But for me this is a last ditch effort to help for whatever its worth. I do hope we can get into a communication mood and not the back-biteing name calling and ect.. I'll do my part the best I can. I feel I owe at least that much to this generation of researchers who are serious in their work.

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I think Charles makes is a very interesting point. We know that much was done to confuse those who would come later. The assassination itself was well thought out down to the last detail, but the confusion and lack of communication Tosh describes reeks of planning. And certainly reflects a kind of war within the CIA itself, akin to the factions Oglesby would later write about. A genuine 'coup. Tosh I sure hope WB comes through for Peter with some of the documents you need. All Jay's work, just rotting away.

Dawn

Excellent points, Dawn. Two factions were fighting over the cover-up

post-assassination -- Bundy/Harriman pressed the lone assassin angle

while Hoover/CIA MEXI/US-Mexico Amb Mann pressed the Castro-did-it

story.

For the Yankees the murder of JFK was a contingency that hadn't arrived;

for the Cowboys it was their last shot at retaking Havana.

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I think Charles makes is a very interesting point. We know that much was done to confuse those who would come later. The assassination itself was well thought out down to the last detail, but the confusion and lack of communication Tosh describes reeks of planning. And certainly reflects a kind of war within the CIA itself, akin to the factions Oglesby would later write about. A genuine 'coup. Tosh I sure hope WB comes through for Peter with some of the documents you need. All Jay's work, just rotting away.

Dawn

Excellent points, Dawn. Two factions were fighting over the cover-up

post-assassination -- Bundy/Harriman pressed the lone assassin angle

while Hoover/CIA MEXI/US-Mexico Amb Mann pressed the Castro-did-it

story.

For the Yankees the murder of JFK was a contingency that hadn't arrived;

for the Cowboys it was their last shot at retaking Havana.

In this scenario Roselli may have acted as a go-between these two factions.

"Friends of ours want this called off." "Tell them we can't do that."

I know you've been over this a million times, Tosh, but could you go over

your impressions of Roselli and where and when he disembarked?

Edited by Cliff Varnell
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"I say I saw JFK get assassinated. I saw we were sent in to stop it or as I have said long ago "ABORT IT"" Tosh

I have heard of a theory that the Assassination was going to be fake or it was going to be real and Oswald was going to help abort the thing. How? By standing at the Coke machine? (I can't help but interject that Nixon was in Dallas that day for Pepsi. Pepsi - Coke - get it?) Then the people who wanted a fake assassination -- the purpose to scare America into invading Cuba, as people would think it was a real attempt -- were infiltrated, unbeknownst to them, by real assassination plotters who succeeded.

Tosh, if you were there, why? Were you trying to stop the assassination? If so, by what means -- hiding in the shadow of a tree some distance away from the action, so to speak? What were you doing to prevent the assassination? Did you know where the assassins were?

Please respond as I am very curious about this.

Kathy Collins

Kathleen:

I too, have heard the theory that you mentioned. However, I do not know about that and can't be of much help in that direction. Your other questions have been addressed in detail in scattered places on this forum and at other places for a number of years now. It was detailed to some degree in a post "Flight to Dallas", I think, and posted some years ago. None the less, I will be as brief as I can in responds to your questions. Perhaps others here can bring some of those post forward and therein some of your questions will be answered in more detail.

"...Tosh, if you were there, why?...".

Information had been received from Military INTEL and CIA Miami Station that a hit was going to be made on the President. The information had been obtained from two people who were going to fire a Bazooka on Air Force One, at West Palm Beach Florida, approximately November 17, 1963. From that interrogation (I was told) of these two people came the information and it was passed to JM/WAVE and to our case officers at West Palm Beach. I was one of the pilots that flew the team into Dallas. I was not "mission operational", at that time other than the pilot. The details of how and why that mission came together I would not know. I was not at the clearance level to know. Most of those details would be reveled to me later. (Some of those details came many years later)

"...Were you trying to stop the assassination?...".

Yes.. I was asked by Sergio, at Red Bird, if I wanted to go and see the President, Otherwise I would just hang out at Red Bird Airport as I had done on most other transportation type missions. Sergio explained most of the details of what his part was in the overall mission. He was a "Spotter" I did know bits and pieces, but most of the details came from my case officer, Bob Bennett and Sergio. Most of the team did not think much of the mission. They, as well as I, thought it just another wild goose chase and there was nothing to it. There had been many threats and rumors as to the assassination of the Presidents during that time frame. I had worked Dallas with MI on other matters, and was familiar with the area and knew some of the Dallas Cubans as well as knowing of LHO. They, the Dallas Cubans, were NOT involved in any way concerning the assassination. But they were heavily involved in Gun Running to southern Florida and the Cuban exile community)

"...If so, by what means --What were you doing to prevent the assassination?...".

Sergio's was one of many "spotters". His job was to secure the south side of the Plaza and the south parking lot. Other spotters were working the north side and that parking lot as well as the rail road tracks and overpass. There was communication between all personal on the mission. Sergio had a communication device and I had a clip board and a pair of binoculars. Our communication was spoty at best. nothing worked right. It has been said that I said "we were there to take them out". I have said that, BUT it has been taken out of context. We were there to get close enough to disrupt their, (the assassins) timing and to quickly remove them from the threat. To "take them out" was not meant to shoot them or have a gun fight, like some have said. If that had happened then there would have been a fire fight in the Plaza that day and many, other than the President, would have been killed. As I have said before..if that had happened.... "It would have been a real blood bath... two factions fighting it out in the Plaza".

"... hiding in the shadow of a tree some distance away from the action, so to speak?..."

We were not hiding in the shadows. We were working our (Sergio's) section. We had just completed our walk through the south parking lot where we saw nothing unusual and had walked past the steps by the fork tree and turned to walk back toward the overpass. The shots were fired at about the time we were just west of the steps and in the shadows of the tree. At that point we knew the mission had failed and it was our job to get out of the area. The team was not to be known about for obvious reasons. ( The reaso for confrimation of the South Knoll Photo about two people standing in the shadows of the tree)

I know this does not address all your questions and it would take pages and pages, perhaps books to answer all of them. However, I too, would like some answers about that day and that is why I joined this forum and have tried to help the research community and in turn get some help from them on my questions... That has not worked..... I think its a lost cause today... This story is to far fetched for anyone to believe today, or yesterday for that matter. The record has been lost and only new releases and other documentation will perhaps someday come to surface, but by then I will be long gone and that is the way it is suppose to be.

"...;Did you know where the assassins were?...".

NO. We were checking for triangulation crossfire that would be used as a sniper attack method. Each section had been divided up and parts of the team went into areas where a sniper would or should be located. It was a type of walk through, spotting most likely places and then getting close enough to wreck their timing on hence "take them out". We failed in that. In fact the whole mission was a mess from start to finish. We were late, getting to the Plaza. And the flight into Dallas was a wreck waiting to happen, weather delays and etc.

A question I have been asked many times... "Could some on your team have been assassins?".

Yes. Could have been. But that is speculation. But I do not think so. Because of the way some (most) of the teams reaction as to the failure. If it was an attack team then I think they would have been overjoyed that they had carried it off. That was not the case. Nobody on our flight was happy about the chain of events. Nor were any team members taken out that day..

*************************************************************

"Information had been received from Military INTEL and CIA Miami Station that a hit was going to be made on the President. The information had been obtained from two people who were going to fire a Bazooka on Air Force One, at West Palm Beach Florida, approximately November 17, 1963. From that interrogation (I was told) of these two people came the information and it was passed to JM/WAVE and to our case officers at West Palm Beach. I was one of the pilots that flew the team into Dallas. I was not "mission operational," at that time other than the pilot. The details of how and why that mission came together I would not know. I was not at the clearance level to know. Most of those details would be revealed to me later. (Some of those details came many years later)"

"I was told sometime after the assassination that the Adolphs Hotel was a strong possibility and that was the location first learned about from information received from Miami, but it was changed at the last minute to the Plaza. By who I have no idea... As I have said I was not at the level to know all the planning steps involved. Some of what I knew then and know now and came after the fact and in conversations with those involved in the team..."

Excellent examples of "compartmentalization," inherent in pretty much any detail or operation meted out by those agencies involved, on a regular basis.

The nature of the "job" description, or "non-description," if you will. All the better to maintain total control of all the operatives in the field, by the upper echelon producing the show, IMHO.

Thanks for hanging in here, Bill, for fielding all the inquiries, and answering them to the best of your ability. Especially, considering the conditions you were forced to work under on that particular day. You're a most obliging and engaging person to have put up with all the "bonafide" researchers and authors, the hack-job disinfo's and misinfo's, as well as with the students.

You're doing a stand-up job, my friend.

Ter

Thanks Terry. That is refreshing. I apreciate your feedback. I will honestly try to do my part and stick to the facts as I know them. I hope I can be of some form of help as to who and why JFK was assassinated.

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I think Charles makes is a very interesting point. We know that much was done to confuse those who would come later. The assassination itself was well thought out down to the last detail, but the confusion and lack of communication Tosh describes reeks of planning. And certainly reflects a kind of war within the CIA itself, akin to the factions Oglesby would later write about. A genuine 'coup. Tosh I sure hope WB comes through for Peter with some of the documents you need. All Jay's work, just rotting away.

Dawn

Excellent points, Dawn. Two factions were fighting over the cover-up

post-assassination -- Bundy/Harriman pressed the lone assassin angle

while Hoover/CIA MEXI/US-Mexico Amb Mann pressed the Castro-did-it

story.

For the Yankees the murder of JFK was a contingency that hadn't arrived;

for the Cowboys it was their last shot at retaking Havana.

In this scenario Roselli may have acted as a go-between these two factions.

"Friends of ours want this called off." "Tell them we can't do that."

I know you've been over this a million times, Tosh, but could you go over

your impressions of Roselli and where and when he disembarked?

I'll do my best. Roselli and I were friends and I had flown him to many places. Bimini, the Cayman Islands, Cuba, one time, Las Vegas's Thunderbird Inn, and Santa Barbra CA. and Galveston Texas. Most of what I tell you is at this point from memory and if I fail in some respects its because of memory and memory only. I am nowhere near any of my files and documents so as to give you references. I have always tried to give references or documentation when I have had something to say. ( if there were any references as to documentation. (Most of the Roselli matters were never documented)

The complete record is posted in various places on the net and in forums. Roselli did not hate Kennedy like some have said. I can not speak for the Mafia, but there were divisions among them, Pro and Con in reference to JFK. Roselli was a go between for the CIA, JM/WAVE and MIAMI STATION. He used the name as Col. Rawlston (my spelling) assigned by the CIA. The name Ralston is found in some documentation and he (Roselli) was a "CIA-Cut Out" and worked with John Martino as well as others. Roselli got off at Garland, not Red Bird as some of long ago tried to get me to say. He did not reboard the aircraft at Red Bird after the assassination. I did not see him after he left Garland. Phillips was one of the INDIRECT contacts with Roselli and any information was passed to Martino or Varona from Phillips first and one time later to Tony Varona and HL Hunt and then to Roselli. (or perhaps the other way around, concerning Hunt... however, I believe Hunt never had direct contact with Roselli... only as a cut-out no direct contact. The same for Phillips) Roselli was the "go between", between the CIA and the Mafia. Mahue was also a contact of Col Ralston and Mahue was a cut out for H Hughes. (memory) There was also others in this mix Mc Mahon and a Mc Cord of Tucsom and the Grace Ranch of Arizona.

I meet Roselli at Bay Front Park, Miami Florida around 1960 I think (memory) and John Farrentello and another person who slips my mind at present introduced me to Him. Roselli got me into the Fountain Blu shortly after it opened. (again memory as to the year) I hope this gives you some background as to who Roselli really was and who he was working far.

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I think Charles makes is a very interesting point. We know that much was done to confuse those who would come later. The assassination itself was well thought out down to the last detail, but the confusion and lack of communication Tosh describes reeks of planning. And certainly reflects a kind of war within the CIA itself, akin to the factions Oglesby would later write about. A genuine 'coup. Tosh I sure hope WB comes through for Peter with some of the documents you need. All Jay's work, just rotting away.

Dawn

Excellent points, Dawn. Two factions were fighting over the cover-up

post-assassination -- Bundy/Harriman pressed the lone assassin angle

while Hoover/CIA MEXI/US-Mexico Amb Mann pressed the Castro-did-it

story.

For the Yankees the murder of JFK was a contingency that hadn't arrived;

for the Cowboys it was their last shot at retaking Havana.

In this scenario Roselli may have acted as a go-between these two factions.

"Friends of ours want this called off." "Tell them we can't do that."

I know you've been over this a million times, Tosh, but could you go over

your impressions of Roselli and where and when he disembarked?

I'll do my best. Roselli and I were friends and I had flown him to many places. Bimini, the Cayman Islands, Cuba, one time, Las Vegas's Thunderbird Inn, and Santa Barbra CA. and Galveston Texas. Most of what I tell you is at this point from memory and if I fail in some respects its because of memory and memory only. I am nowhere near any of my files and documents so as to give you references. I have always tried to give references or documentation when I have had something to say. ( if there were any references as to documentation. (Most of the Roselli matters were never documented)

The complete record is posted in various places on the net and in forums. Roselli did not hate Kennedy like some have said. I can not speak for the Mafia, but there were divisions among them, Pro and Con in reference to JFK. Roselli was a go between for the CIA, JM/WAVE and MIAMI STATION. He used the name as Col. Rawlston (my spelling) assigned by the CIA. The name Ralston is found in some documentation and he (Roselli) was a "CIA-Cut Out" and worked with John Martino as well as others. Roselli got off at Garland, not Red Bird as some of long ago tried to get me to say. He did not reboard the aircraft at Red Bird after the assassination. I did not see him after he left Garland. Phillips was one of the INDIRECT contacts with Roselli and any information was passed to Martino or Varona from Phillips first and one time later to Tony Varona and HL Hunt and then to Roselli. (or perhaps the other way around, concerning Hunt... however, I believe Hunt never had direct contact with Roselli... only as a cut-out no direct contact. The same for Phillips) Roselli was the "go between", between the CIA and the Mafia. Mahue was also a contact of Col Ralston and Mahue was a cut out for H Hughes. (memory) There was also others in this mix Mc Mahon and a Mc Cord of Tucsom and the Grace Ranch of Arizona.

I meet Roselli at Bay Front Park, Miami Florida around 1960 I think (memory) and John Farrentello and another person who slips my mind at present introduced me to Him. Roselli got me into the Fountain Blu shortly after it opened. (again memory as to the year) I hope this gives you some background as to who Roselli really was and who he was working far.

Thanks! Unlike others I have no reason to dismiss your account. I'm curious

about Robert Bennett -- was this the same Robert Bennett as the current junior

Senator from Utah? Could you go over again your interactions with him?

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I think Charles makes is a very interesting point. We know that much was done to confuse those who would come later. The assassination itself was well thought out down to the last detail, but the confusion and lack of communication Tosh describes reeks of planning. And certainly reflects a kind of war within the CIA itself, akin to the factions Oglesby would later write about. A genuine 'coup. Tosh I sure hope WB comes through for Peter with some of the documents you need. All Jay's work, just rotting away.

Dawn

Excellent points, Dawn. Two factions were fighting over the cover-up

post-assassination -- Bundy/Harriman pressed the lone assassin angle

while Hoover/CIA MEXI/US-Mexico Amb Mann pressed the Castro-did-it

story.

For the Yankees the murder of JFK was a contingency that hadn't arrived;

for the Cowboys it was their last shot at retaking Havana.

In this scenario Roselli may have acted as a go-between these two factions.

"Friends of ours want this called off." "Tell them we can't do that."

I know you've been over this a million times, Tosh, but could you go over

your impressions of Roselli and where and when he disembarked?

I'll do my best. Roselli and I were friends and I had flown him to many places. Bimini, the Cayman Islands, Cuba, one time, Las Vegas's Thunderbird Inn, and Santa Barbra CA. and Galveston Texas. Most of what I tell you is at this point from memory and if I fail in some respects its because of memory and memory only. I am nowhere near any of my files and documents so as to give you references. I have always tried to give references or documentation when I have had something to say. ( if there were any references as to documentation. (Most of the Roselli matters were never documented)

The complete record is posted in various places on the net and in forums. Roselli did not hate Kennedy like some have said. I can not speak for the Mafia, but there were divisions among them, Pro and Con in reference to JFK. Roselli was a go between for the CIA, JM/WAVE and MIAMI STATION. He used the name as Col. Rawlston (my spelling) assigned by the CIA. The name Ralston is found in some documentation and he (Roselli) was a "CIA-Cut Out" and worked with John Martino as well as others. Roselli got off at Garland, not Red Bird as some of long ago tried to get me to say. He did not reboard the aircraft at Red Bird after the assassination. I did not see him after he left Garland. Phillips was one of the INDIRECT contacts with Roselli and any information was passed to Martino or Varona from Phillips first and one time later to Tony Varona and HL Hunt and then to Roselli. (or perhaps the other way around, concerning Hunt... however, I believe Hunt never had direct contact with Roselli... only as a cut-out no direct contact. The same for Phillips) Roselli was the "go between", between the CIA and the Mafia. Mahue was also a contact of Col Ralston and Mahue was a cut out for H Hughes. (memory) There was also others in this mix Mc Mahon and a Mc Cord of Tucsom and the Grace Ranch of Arizona.

I meet Roselli at Bay Front Park, Miami Florida around 1960 I think (memory) and John Farrentello and another person who slips my mind at present introduced me to Him. Roselli got me into the Fountain Blu shortly after it opened. (again memory as to the year) I hope this gives you some background as to who Roselli really was and who he was working far.

Thanks! Unlike others I have no reason to dismiss your account. I'm curious

about Robert Bennett -- was this the same Robert Bennett as the current junior

Senator from Utah? Could you go over again your interactions with him?

NO. It was not the same person.

My case officer, one of many, was Robert"Ben net tee", (phonet spel) as well as "Paul Lee" of the Denver contact Div. And too, this was an Operative name assigned by CIA, an alias if you will, used at JM/WAVE HDQ. My name at the time was William H "Buck Pearson; (not Buck Parsons as some have said I claimed his ID.., note Persons and Pearson spellings.. and too, not Pierson, different people, different names. I knew Buck Persons and flew with him in the early sixties in Central America before the "Bay of Pigs". Some have tried to say I used his name and fame. Not true as FBI FOIA documents state Wm Plumlee alias William Pearson. (Pierson spellings in one FBI report)

Edited by William Plumlee
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