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Is that the "Fat Lady" Singing?


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This constitutes the FBI Survey plat of 2/7/64, in which the second shot/aka Z313 impact shot (located at elevation 418.35) "magically" moved itself 24.5 feet farther back up Elm St. than it is truly located.

If one could actually see CE585, this is what they would see!

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0144b.htm

With the exception of course that this copy, which was "marked up" for SS Agent John Joe Howlett, has the impact point for the Z313 impact along with the street elevation and distance from the TSDB drawn back in as reference for his information relative to changes to the SS's original determination.

Which of course, certain persons were fully aware of as they were giving out the true street elevation of Z313/aka elevation 418, well prior to the WC having determined this.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0139a.htm

Hmmmmm, Hmmmmm, Hmmmmm------Fat Lady warming up!

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April 27, 1964

MEMORANDUM

TO: J. Lee Rankin

FROM: Norman Redlich

The purpose of this memorandum is to explain the reasons why

certain members of the staff feel that it is important to take certain

on-site photographs in connection with the location of the approximate

points at which the three bullets struck the occupants of the

Presidential limousine.

Our report presumably will state that the President was hit by

the first bullet, Governor Connally by the second, and the President

by the third and fatal bullet. The report will also conclude that the

bullets were fired by one person located in the sixth floor southeast

corner window of the TSBD building.

As our investigation now stands, however, we have not shown

that these events could possibly have occurred in the manner suggested

above. All we have is a reasonable hypothesis which appears to be

supported by the medical testimony but which has not been checked out

against the physical facts at the scene of the assassination.

Our examination of the Zapruder films shows that the fatal

third shot struck the President at a point which we can locate with

reasonable accuracy on the ground. We can do this because we know the

exact frame (no. 313) in the film at which the third shot hit the

President and we know the location of the photographer. By lining up

fixed objects in the movie frame where this shot occurs we feel that

we have determined the approximate location of this shot. This can be

verified by a photo of the same spot from the point where Zapruder was

standing.

We have the testimony of Governor and Mrs. Connally that the

Governor was hit with the second bullet at a point which we probably

cannot fix with precision. We feel we have established, however, with

the help of medical testimony, that the shot which hit the Governor

did not come after frame 240 on the Zapruder film. The governor feels

that it came around 230, which is certainly consistent with our

observations of the film and with the doctor's testimony. Since the

President was shot at frame 313, this would leave a time of at least 4

seconds between the two shots, certainly ample for even an

inexperienced marksman.

Prior to our last viewing of the films with Governor Connally

we had assumed that the President was hit while he was concealed

behind the sign which occurs between frames 215-225. We have expert

testimony to the effect that a skilled marksman would require a

minimum 2 seconds between shots with this rifle. Since the camera

operates at 18 1/3 frames per second, there would have to be a minimum

of 40 frames between shots. It is apparent, therefore, that if

Governor Connally was even as late as frame 240, the President would

have to have been hit no later than frame 190 and probably even

earlier.

We have not yet examined the assassination scene to determine

whether the assassin in fact could have shot the President prior to

frame 190. We could locate the position on the ground which

corresponds to this frame and it would then be our intent to establish

by photography that the assassin would have fired the first shot at the

President prior to this point. Our intention is not to establish the

point with complete accuracy, but merely to substantiate the

hypothesis which underlies the conclusions that Oswald was the sole

assassin.

I had always assumed that our final report would be

accompanied by a surveyor's diagram which would indicate the

approximate location of the three shots. We certainly cannot prepare

such a diagram without establishing that we are describing an

occurrence which is physically possible. Our failure to do this will,

in my opinion, place this Report in jeopardy since it is a certainty

that others will examine the Zapruder films and raise the same

questions which have been raised by our examination of the films. If

we do not attempt to answer these observable facts, others may answer

them with facts which challenge our most basic assumptions, or with

fanciful theories based on our unwillingness to test our assumptions

by the investigatory methods available to us.

I should add that the facts which we now have in our

possession, submitted to us in separate reports from the FBI and

Secret Service, are totally incorrect and, if left uncorrected, will

present a completely misleading picture. (emphasis added)

It may well be that this project should be undertaken by the

FBI and Secret Service with our assistance instead of being done as a

staff project. The important thing is that the project be undertaken

expeditiously.

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Sort of make one think that just perhaps JEH & Company asked:

"Well is this what you people wanted?"

You're right, Tom. West's plats effectively demonstrate that the FBI learned to whistle Specter's tune. I'm still curious about the top of West's plat from the re-enactment, the one closest to CE 882. I can't figure out what's up at the top in the trajectories box. Can you read the writing up at the top on West's plat? Does it say that the first trajectory--the one way too early,apparently around position A--represents? Were they really trying to pass that off as a shot location?

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Sort of make one think that just perhaps JEH & Company asked:

"Well is this what you people wanted?"

You're right, Tom. West's plats effectively demonstrate that the FBI learned to whistle Specter's tune. I'm still curious about the top of West's plat from the re-enactment, the one closest to CE 882. I can't figure out what's up at the top in the trajectories box. Can you read the writing up at the top on West's plat? Does it say that the first trajectory--the one way too early,apparently around position A--represents? Were they really trying to pass that off as a shot location?

"You're right, Tom. "

Comments such as that could conceiveably get you permanently banned from the forum.

You might even have to openly and fully join McAdams.

"Can you read the writing up at the top on West's plat? Does it say that the first trajectory--the one way too early,apparently around position A--represents? Were they really trying to pass that off as a shot location?"

In event you are asking if I can read what is on CE882, the answer is a definitive no.

However, this may help, since "Position A" has not been altered as have serveral other items on this exhibit.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

And, in case that fails, one can always revert back to looking at one of the two full size copies of the West survey Plat in my possession.

As well as of course Mr. West's survey notes.

P.S. I also long ago posted that portion of Elm St. which showed the position of "A" aka/position "A" as well.

See there Kathy, you have operated under some misguided impression that I was/had been "holding out"!

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With that again stated!

Might I recommend that one take a close look at what you asked for, especially such items as 161/166/& 210 on the CE884

exhibit.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

Mr. SPECTER. I now hand you a schedule which I have marked as Commission Exhibit No. 884 and ask you what figures are contained thereon.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 884 for identification.)

Mr. GAUTHIER. This is a copy of a tabulation which appears on the plat map.

It contains certain positions marked as frame numbers. It indicates elevations and a column dealing with angle of sight from the frame positions to the window and to a horizontal line.

It also contains angels of sight the degree of sight and distances from these positions to a point on the top of the bridge, handrail height.

Mr. SPECTER. May it please the Commission, that concludes the description of the general setting.

I would like to move now at this time for the admission into evidence of Exhibit No. 884, which completes all of the exhibits used heretofore.

Mr. McCLOY. It may be admitted.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And thereafter do some "comparison shopping" as to exactly what Frames of the Z-film Mr. West was informed that he was surveying in.

Then, if one wants to find out more about how Specter & Company "slipped" this one by, they can read the entire affair on the Mary Ferrell website, or as was allowed to be published in Lancer.

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Thanks, Tom, that's the same as at the top of CE 882. (I spent about an hour last night trying to read it.) So it does point to position A, and lists the z frames afterwards. I had myself half-convinced they were claiming that a shot had been fired at that position.

Still, it's interesting that they plotted only one trajectory-the head shot, and measured it at 265 feet. Any ideas as to why the FBI went back a month later and had a new one created with the trajectories of two shots, one at 267 feet and one at 184 feet? Did West ever comment on this?

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Thanks, Tom, that's the same as at the top of CE 882. (I spent about an hour last night trying to read it.) So it does point to position A, and lists the z frames afterwards. I had myself half-convinced they were claiming that a shot had been fired at that position.

Still, it's interesting that they plotted only one trajectory-the head shot, and measured it at 265 feet. Any ideas as to why the FBI went back a month later and had a new one created with the trajectories of two shots, one at 267 feet and one at 184 feet? Did West ever comment on this?

First off, for the enjoyment of those who consider the survey data of importance (illegible or not).

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

As the person responsible for having uncovered the first ABSOLUTE proof of altered evidence in the WC investigation, I do take some offense at "no-nothings" who, due to their own failure to even research the evidence, not to mention understand it when it is presented, making references to "illegible" survey data.

Too bad they do not understand sufficiently the significance which this information represents.

And, for those who publish "Copyrighted" materials without verification as to who has the rights to that material, as did Professor Fetzer, and then attempt to utilize this oh so wonderful revelation to buttress asinine theories, I also take offense.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, to the FBI FINAL Survey Plat.

Yes, I spoke with Mr. West concerning this too, as not unlike most of what I have provided here, it had never been heard of.

Mr. West informed me that no actual survey work was done.

His office merely received word to take the FBI Survey of 2/7/64 and to re-draw it.

In this "re-drawn" version, they were to delete the last/final/third/Altgens shot, move the previously/2/7/64 "moved" shot#2 impact back to it's correct position at the Z313/aka street elevation 418.35 (SS Platted) location, and to leave Shot#1 in place.

So, all that was done was the survey plat was re-drawn.

Still, it's interesting that they plotted only one trajectory-the head shot, and measured it at 265 feet.

In that regards, one must recall that the SS platted distance was to an impact point elevation of 418.35, whereas the WC impact point was at elevation 418.48. A few inches difference either laterally along the elevation contour of Elm St, or elswise an extremely short distance (less than one foot) back up Elm St.

Additionally, the SS distance of 267 feet was to an impact point on Elm St, whereas the WC took into consideration the actual height of JFK's head above Elm St, and Mr. West mathmatically calculated this, which would have been a slightly shorter distance due to the vertical angle to the actual height of the target.

This can be seen in Mr. West previously posted drawing for the WC Z313 shot, and the drawing represents the corrections for the slope of Elm St. as well as the additional height of JFK's head above that point.

Thusly, the approximately 2.3' difference between the SS and the WC's works as regards the actual "slope" distance.

Furthermore, the SS work was to the window sill edge elevation, whereas the WC was to the end of the re-enactment rifle barrel.

All of which would add confusion to anyone who did not understand how so many differences came to be.

FBI went back a month later and had a new one created with the trajectories of two shots, one at 267 feet and one at 184 feet? Did West ever comment on this?

As stated, only how it transpired.

However, I have my own speculative theories as to why it occurred as well as why it was never seen.

JEH had been caught in a deliberate lie with the attempt to "sell" the 2/7/64 re-enactment and drawing in which the Z313 impact was completely deleted at it's fixed position and then moved back up Elm St. to become strictly a hit to JBC.

I am of the opinion that JEH had the new survey made as a CYA, in that what was presented in the WC (CE 585) was presented as being the SS work, when in reality, it was the FBI's work.

So, if JEH & Company came up with something which pretty well corresponded to what was going to be the ultimate WC fantasy, then JEH would be covered as well as looking good.

And, had it not been for one item, I believe that we would have ultimately seen this survey plat as such.

That item being that whoever contacted Mr. West and informed him to delete the last shot down at Altgens position, and move the Z313 impact point back to where it belongs, apparantly forgot to tell Mr. West NOT to assign numbers to the shots.

If one looks at the 6/25/64 redrawn FBI survey plat, they will find that it indicates #1 and #2, with #2 being the Z313 impact as it always originally was.

I am of the opinion that someone felt that this just may bring up too many questions, as well as perhaps point down the road and start persons to looking for the true "Magic" bullet. AKA/the one down in front of James Altgens position.

The "normal" mind would look at #1 here, #2 here, and quite obviously #3 somewhere after #2.

This, to my way of thinking (however abnormal it may or may not be), is most probably why we never saw the FBI Survey Plat introduced into evidence in any way shape or form.

There is however, a second reason as well, that being that the WC did not want us to know that they could come up with the general location of shot#1.

To do so would have completely thrown out their circular reasoning which they went on about exactly which shot it was that had missed.

So, Specter & Company sold a story that Z313 was pretty much the last shot fired, and the WC just could not, for all it's resources, resolve exactly where prior to that the other two shots were fired, of which one probably missed everything.

Lastly, us ole "country boys" may get a little "cognitively impaired" at times on some first run "shine", but at least we can spot a "snake in the grass" when we see one, as well as know the futility of looking for snakes in Alaska; unicorns; the golden fleece; and/or multiple assassins.

So, when some "Slicky Boy" Pennsylvania lawyer starts pulling the wool over peoples eyes, as did Specter & Company, at least we are wise enough to know that he/they are up to something and one most certainly should not buy what is being sold.

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