Oswald and Ruby: The Transcript

[pierre]

Whether this transcript of an alleged conversation between Ruby and Oswald is a fake or not, the simple fact that this document has been concealed for decades is puzzling, to say the list.

If the transcript was purely fictional and written for a movie to come, why to have kept it concealed.

After that, it is quite obvious to think that more relevant and true documents still remain classified.

[Charles Drago]

Bumped from the Dallas County DA's office finds cache of JFK memorabilia thread:

QUOTE(John Simkin @ Feb 20 2008, 01:47 AM)

The assumption being made is that the conversation was part of a film script (Countdown to Dallas) that Henry Wade was working on. However, Michael Hogan has pointed out on another thread, that Countdown to Dallas was a proposed documentary on the assassination. If that is the case, the Oswald-Ruby conversation is not part of a script.

Craig Watkins said these documents will be available to researchers. It seems to me that researchers need to take a close look at this contract. Who signed the contract? Did they make documentaries or feature films? Watkins said the contract suggested that Wade would have become a "rich man" if the film was made. Maybe he was offered even more money that stated in the contract not to make the film.

***

My guess is that the film was to have been falsely characterized as a documentary, that Wade would have served the function of the false authority from which an entirely fabricated "transcript" would draw its bona fides, and that the project went south, as they say, when the notion of producing a limited hang-out was rejected by conspirators on the grounds of lack of need.

(Of course these efficient killers of kings were wise enough to keep this stash intact; a strategically timed future release might reap the benefits of confusing and otherwise misdirecting investigators-to-come.)

Technically, John, the "transcript" was precisely a script component: a fictive construct disguised as a genuine document and inserted into a larger cinematic fabrication.

Of course researchers must take a close look at the contract and all other components of this newly discovered cache of materials. Forensic examinations of documents, films, still photos, etc. -- including the boxes they're in and the safe itself -- must be conducted.

In the meantime, let's do what we can to keep the material off the Sixth Floor.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Charles Drago

[William Plumlee]

Bumped from the Dallas County DA's office finds cache of JFK memorabilia thread:

QUOTE(John Simkin @ Feb 20 2008, 01:47 AM)

The assumption being made is that the conversation was part of a film script (Countdown to Dallas) that Henry Wade was working on. However, Michael Hogan has pointed out on another thread, that Countdown to Dallas was a proposed documentary on the assassination. If that is the case, the Oswald-Ruby conversation is not part of a script.

Craig Watkins said these documents will be available to researchers. It seems to me that researchers need to take a close look at this contract. Who signed the contract? Did they make documentaries or feature films? Watkins said the contract suggested that Wade would have become a "rich man" if the film was made. Maybe he was offered even more money that stated in the contract not to make the film.

***

My guess is that the film was to have been falsely characterized as a documentary, that Wade would have served the function of the false authority from which an entirely fabricated "transcript" would draw its bona fides, and that the project went south, as they say, when the notion of producing a limited hang-out was rejected by conspirators on the grounds of lack of need.

(Of course these efficient killers of kings were wise enough to keep this stash intact; a strategically timed future release might reap the benefits of confusing and otherwise misdirecting investigators-to-come.)

Technically, John, the "transcript" was precisely a script component: a fictive construct disguised as a genuine document and inserted into a larger cinematic fabrication.

Of course researchers must take a close look at the contract and all other components of this newly discovered cache of materials. Forensic examinations of documents, films, still photos, etc. -- including the boxes they're in and the safe itself -- must be conducted.

In the meantime, let's do what we can to keep the material off the Sixth Floor.

Charles. I think now your right on. I have just been told by a retired detective of the Dallas P.D., as well as a retired Sgt., that some of the photos and even some fingerprints are in that collection. That there are "..MORE than just a movie script in those boxes..". Also, I was told by a different source whose father worked for Wade, that the FBI is now taking a second look ..'and that some in the DoJ are interested in launching their investigation as to WHY this material has been kept secret for so many years...,that other documents from investigative units between Dallas and Ft Worth are also lost somewhere in Ft Worth's files, which connected south Texas crime interest to the case ('Texas Mafia, although not said) "The movie contract was an after thought and used as a distraction". (not sure of just how this was meant) I have been sworn not to use any names at this time, because some of my sources think they will be called to testify, if and when????.

When I have my meetings in Dallas and south Texas, I will ask those questions your interested in. "Dallas officials are thinking about opening their own investigation into this". (if you remember, the FBI took the investigation away from local and it went into the black hole of federal and much of the HARD evidence concerning Texas's involvement in the assassination was with held with the nod of some in Washington DoJ and the WH) I hope you understand I have "ticked" some of the "Old Boys" off recently. Their throwing up their baby food and spitting cruse words.

P.S I just got off the telephone from a Dallas source: "... Bob. if you have anyway of getting information to the right people then try to get them to write to Dallas authorities requesting an investigation into this find, overwhelm them if you can.., before all this is again lost. I feel the time is right. I know some are trying to buy the rights to this information and lock it up again..".

Sounds like a good idea to me. Perhaps that would block any thing going to a museum or being purged or sorted out.

On another note. I asked about photos of the south plaza, an area I am very much interested in, and I was told there were pictures of the south knoll taken at the time of the shooting. Who took those pictures I do not know, but I was told that Life Magazine had one of them after they bought it from one of the people who took it... Perhaps Peter Lemkin can fill in at this point. I think he knows how this photo came into being. This particular photo also can be found in Gary Shaw and Harris's book "Conspiracy", published in 1976.

Edited February 20, 2008 by William Plumlee

[William Kelly]

News Stories re: Wade/Robert Larson film project. Compliments of Robert Howard.

DALLAS, Sept.. 13 1967

A corporation that 'includes

on its boai'd of directors

the District Attorney

and former Police Chief of

Dallas has begun shooting a

film about the assassination

of President Kennedy.

~ Robert Larsen, the pro-'

ducer of the projected film,

said background footage was

shot recently in Dallas and

during the past few days 'at

his studio in Colorado Springs,

Colo. . . ' . .

Among the directors of the

corporation that is producing

the film are Henry M. Wade,

the 'District Attorney.'at the

time of the assassination who

still holds that office, and

Jesse Curry, who was the

Dallas Police Chief in November,

1963. Marvin Thomas,

Mr. Wade's law partner, is

president of the corporation,

known as Flag-Star Inc. t.

The corporation was formed

last March but its existence,

according to Mr. Larsen, was

kept secret until ..Wednesday

when word of. its establishment

leaked to the Press.

Mr. Larsen said the picture,

which he said would be released

in about 10 .months,

would "recreate in dramatic

form'' the events of November

22, 1963, and during the

subsequent months-

According to present!' plans,

Mr. Wade, Mr. ' Curry, and

other principals jn the assassination

story would play

themselves in the film. Mr.

Larsen has been negotiating

with Marina Oswald, the

widow of Lee Harvey Oswald,

the President's assassin, but'

they bave reached no agrej

fnent on financial terms. "

: Mr. Wade announced to -the'

world 'the arrest of Oswald

as tile assassin of toe President

and later prosecuted Oswald's

slayer, Jack Ruby, who died of

cancer last January. . Littleknown

professional actors will

play Oswald and Ruby, Mr.

l^arsen said. s

T'he producer said the picture

would not challenge the

findings of the Warren Commisskfa

that Oswald was the

lone assassin, but. would present

the story and "let the

audience be the judge and

jury.

He said- Flag-Star is currently

seeking to raise £178,572

to. finance the pictured ,

; 'Despite Mr. Larsen's prediction

that the picture would be

"released within a: year, Mr.

Wade said he was "not' .optimistic

about its ever being

made."

He emphasized that he had

no formal contract with Mr.

Larsen and that no stock has

been issued by the corporation,

which, he called "a shell',

corporation.'; The District Attorney said

he would like to see "an authentic

documentary" of the

assassination produced, but he'

commented that if the projected

film is '.not authentically

documentary, "I'm not

interested in it."

Xxxxxxxxxxxx

Edited February 20, 2008 by William Kelly

[William Kelly]

Dallas DA Withdraws

From Kennedy Film

By NICHOLAS C. CHRISS

The Los Angeles Times

Sept. 28, 1967

DALLAS (TPNS) - Dist.

Aty. Henry Wade, who used his

influence here to lay the

groundwork for a projected

documentary film of the Kennedy

a s s a s s i n a t i o n , has

withdrawn from {he project.

Robert Larsen, a commercial

film producer confirmed that

the district attorney "is dropping

the whole thing."

Larsen, head of R o b e r t

Larsen Productions, Ltd., of

Colorado Springs, Colo., said

Wade told him he was having

"just too many problems,"

resulting from published stories

revealing details of the film, to

continue with the project.

He said he would try to

dissuade Wade.

"I intend to make the picture

if I can," Larsen said. "But I

must have cooperation to do it."

Wade had been using his influence

in Dallas to open doors

to ease filming of the project

and, with former Police Chief

Jesse Curry, to a p p r o a c h

persons who were involved in

the events surrounding the

assassination and ask them to

reenact their roles in the movie.

Wade had intended to portray

himself.

In turn, Larsen had agreed to

pay Wade $20,000 and Curry

$7.500 for their efforts and their

files.

Larsen also disclosed that he

offered Marina Oswald, widow

of presidential assassin Lee

Harvey Oswald, $20,000 and a

percentage of the receipts if she

At- Dalla

would accept a starring role in

the film, "Countdown In

Dallas."

Some 40 to 50 people in Dallas

are supposed to play their reallife

roles in the movie.

A study of the script indicates

that a prime purpose of the

movie is to improve the reputation

of Dallas and its police

department, damaged by the

assassination.

Producer Larsen said he still

feels Wade might be interested

in making the movie. "I know

he's interested in an authentic

picture being made," he said.

"I think frankly that the more

difficult the situation becomes

in trying to film the movie, the

more valuable it will be after it

is made," Larsen said.

Edited February 20, 2008 by William Kelly

[William Kelly]

Film Project

Yet to Start

Colorado Springs film producer

Robert Larson failed to begin

filming his proposed movie of

President Kennedy's assassination

in Dallas Monday as he had announced

he would do last week.

A source at the film company's

office at the Hilton Inn

acknowleded filming had been

delayed, but would not elaborate.

Company officials were not available

for comment.

Dist. Atty. Henry Wade, who

has been in close contact with

the producers, said he is "in a

position to know" that the filming

has been delased indefinately. "I

don't think they have any immediate

plans to start in the forseable future,

and it's entirely speculation now as is

whether they ever will," he said.

Edited February 20, 2008 by William Kelly

[William Kelly]

Wade Denies Any Movie Offer Made or Accepted

Producer Says Curry, Marina Have Agreed to Play in Assassination Film

By David Morgan

Dist. Atty. Henry Wade Hotly denied reports Thursday that he would receive

$20,000 for his participation in making "Countdown In Dallas," a movie based on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

Wade blamed the film's producer, Robert Larson, for the reports.

"There's been no contract, no offers or anything. He's just here trying to raise money."

A story originating from the Los Angeles Times said earlier this week that Wade, Marina Oswald Porter and former Police Chief Jesse Curry would receive substantial sums for personal appearances in the movie, which Larson has been filming in Dallas.

Larson told The News Thursday that the Los Angeles Times reporter who was allowed to read the script found documents that indicated what participants might receive if the movie were completed.

"That's $20,000," Larson said, "is the problem. It was allocated, but that doesn't mean I offered Henry Wade $20,000."

Larson explained that the amount was only tentative, "like a hit record."

"If it (the movie) is successful, then we'll consider it. You more or less have to establish figures for targets."

Larson said he plans to continue with the movie, which already has cost him $50,000, despite the controversary, and said he's already received verbal agreements by Curry and Mrs. Porter that they are willing to play their parts. Mrs. Porte, he said, will have a major role.

Wade howeverr, said he'll have no more part of it.

"It's a thing to try to stir up publicity to try to get some people to put up money," Wade charge. "I mean to have nothing whatever to do with it. I'm fed up with it."

Wade said a firm which he is a partner, Flag-Star, Inc. was formed to 'work out some documentary sort of thing," hen added: "But as far as I'm concerned, it's through."

Larson said the Los Angeles story was "premature" and that the "onslaught of reporters discourged and embarrassed" Wade.

Larson said he is slightly discourged that City Mgr. Scott McDonald has refused to allow him to film policemen or the Municpal Building where Oswald was killed by Jack Ruby.

"However, he never got to read the script," Larson argued. "I don't think we would be doing the police department any harm."

Larson said he needed authentic backdrops for scenes in his filming.

"If I don't get the cooperation of Mr. Wade and the City of Dallas it will be impossible to make the picture. I wanted to be authentic and I don't think it would be the kind of picture you'd go on a Hollywood stage and produce."

Larson said that his company, Robert Larson Productions, Ltd. of Colorado Springs, Colo., has a shooting schedule of 32 days and a release date 10 months away.

"All I'm doing is trying to present a fair story of the assassination," he said.

[William Plumlee]

Wade Denies Any Movie Offer Made or Accepted

Producer Says Curry, Marina Have Agreed to Play in Assassination Film

By David Morgan

Dist. Atty. Henry Wade Hotly denied reports Thursday that he would receive

$20,000 for his participation in making "Countdown In Dallas," a movie based on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

Wade blamed the film's producer, Robert Larson, for the reports.

"There's been no contract, no offers or anything. He's just here trying to raise money."

A story originating from the Los Angeles Times said earlier this week that Wade, Marina Oswald Porter and former Police Chief Jesse Curry would receive substantial sums for personal appearances in the movie, which Larson has been filming in Dallas.

Larson told The News Thursday that the Los Angeles Times reporter who was allowed to read the script found documents that indicated what participants might receive if the movie were completed.

"That's $20,000," Larson said, "is the problem. It was allocated, but that doesn't mean I offered Henry Wade $20,000."

Larson explained that the amount was only tentative, "like a hit record."

"If it (the movie) is successful, then we'll consider it. You more or less have to establish figures for targets."

Larson said he plans to continue with the movie, which already has cost him $50,000, despite the controversary, and said he's already received verbal agreements by Curry and Mrs. Porter that they are willing to play their parts. Mrs. Porte, he said, will have a major role.

Wade howeverr, said he'll have no more part of it.

"It's a thing to try to stir up publicity to try to get some people to put up money," Wade charge. "I mean to have nothing whatever to do with it. I'm fed up with it."

Wade said a firm which he is a partner, Flag-Star, Inc. was formed to 'work out some documentary sort of thing," hen added: "But as far as I'm concerned, it's through."

Larson said the Los Angeles story was "premature" and that the "onslaught of reporters discourged and embarrassed" Wade.

Larson said he is slightly discourged that City Mgr. Scott McDonald has refused to allow him to film policemen or the Municpal Building where Oswald was killed by Jack Ruby.

"However, he never got to read the script," Larson argued. "I don't think we would be doing the police department any harm."

Larson said he needed authentic backdrops for scenes in his filming.

"If I don't get the cooperation of Mr. Wade and the City of Dallas it will be impossible to make the picture. I wanted to be authentic and I don't think it would be the kind of picture you'd go on a Hollywood stage and produce."

Larson said that his company, Robert Larson Productions, Ltd. of Colorado Springs, Colo., has a shooting schedule of 32 days and a release date 10 months away.

"All I'm doing is trying to present a fair story of the assassination," he said.

Bill; I just received a call from a young researcher who thinks this is an ongoing project of today and wanted to know what I thought about it. Perhaps in the articles you reference you could put the complete date and year of the articles as well as its sources, etc Dallas Morning News....Times Hearld or others. The time frame of this is very important for a new gereration of research, as well as where the sources can be found... Thanks.

[William Kelly]

Wade Denies Any Movie Offer Made or Accepted

Producer Says Curry, Marina Have Agreed to Play in Assassination Film

By David Morgan

Dist. Atty. Henry Wade Hotly denied reports Thursday that he would receive

$20,000 for his participation in making "Countdown In Dallas," a movie based on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

Wade blamed the film's producer, Robert Larson, for the reports.

"There's been no contract, no offers or anything. He's just here trying to raise money."

A story originating from the Los Angeles Times said earlier this week that Wade, Marina Oswald Porter and former Police Chief Jesse Curry would receive substantial sums for personal appearances in the movie, which Larson has been filming in Dallas.

Larson told The News Thursday that the Los Angeles Times reporter who was allowed to read the script found documents that indicated what participants might receive if the movie were completed.

"That's $20,000," Larson said, "is the problem. It was allocated, but that doesn't mean I offered Henry Wade $20,000."

Larson explained that the amount was only tentative, "like a hit record."

"If it (the movie) is successful, then we'll consider it. You more or less have to establish figures for targets."

Larson said he plans to continue with the movie, which already has cost him $50,000, despite the controversary, and said he's already received verbal agreements by Curry and Mrs. Porter that they are willing to play their parts. Mrs. Porte, he said, will have a major role.

Wade howeverr, said he'll have no more part of it.

"It's a thing to try to stir up publicity to try to get some people to put up money," Wade charge. "I mean to have nothing whatever to do with it. I'm fed up with it."

Wade said a firm which he is a partner, Flag-Star, Inc. was formed to 'work out some documentary sort of thing," hen added: "But as far as I'm concerned, it's through."

Larson said the Los Angeles story was "premature" and that the "onslaught of reporters discourged and embarrassed" Wade.

Larson said he is slightly discourged that City Mgr. Scott McDonald has refused to allow him to film policemen or the Municpal Building where Oswald was killed by Jack Ruby.

"However, he never got to read the script," Larson argued. "I don't think we would be doing the police department any harm."

Larson said he needed authentic backdrops for scenes in his filming.

"If I don't get the cooperation of Mr. Wade and the City of Dallas it will be impossible to make the picture. I wanted to be authentic and I don't think it would be the kind of picture you'd go on a Hollywood stage and produce."

Larson said that his company, Robert Larson Productions, Ltd. of Colorado Springs, Colo., has a shooting schedule of 32 days and a release date 10 months away.

"All I'm doing is trying to present a fair story of the assassination," he said.

Bill; I just received a call from a young researcher who thinks this is an ongoing project of today and wanted to know what I thought about it. Perhaps in the articles you reference you could put the complete date and year of the articles as well as its sources, etc Dallas Morning News....Times Hearld or others. The time frame of this is very important for a new gereration of research, as well as where the sources can be found... Thanks.

Robert Howard was kind enough to send me the clips, which I mention and date in an earlier post, the LA Times article which apparently was premature and set the film project into tailspin - was published prior to September 28, 1967 article.

Will attach the dates to the clips when I have a chance but the Dallas Morning News story is from August 22, 1967.

The clips were sent in full page format so I had a hard time extracting them.

But they all date from August - October 1967.

Of course you are reading this exclusively at the Ed Forum, thanks to RH (The POC) and the mainstream media remains ignorant of all of this.

BK

Edited February 20, 2008 by William Kelly

[William Kelly]

Robert Larwon, Colorado Springs, Colorado film maker, circa 1967.

Who was he, where did he come from and what became of him?

BK

[William Plumlee]

Robert Larwon, Colorado Springs, Colorado film maker, circa 1967.

Who was he, where did he come from and what became of him?

BK

Bill:

The federal government shut him down and scared the hell out of him and Wade.

ON ANOTHER NOTE (not directed toward you Bill)

deleted by Plumlee as being not important and off subject. Sorry

Edited February 21, 2008 by William Plumlee

[John Simkin]

Denise Ryan, Vancouver Sun

Published: Tuesday, February 19, 2008

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...702&k=18689

The Vancouver Island man alleged to be former U.S. president John F. Kennedy's son believes sensitive documents related to JFK's assassination are surfacing now because of media attention that has brought his existence to light.

Previously hidden documents and objects relating to the 1963 assassination were made public on Monday by the Dallas County district attorney's office.

"I think anyone would have to question the timing," Jack Worthington told The Vancouver Sun.

"It's just my hunch that this DA decided to come clean partially because he [or the investigators] feared something would be exposed by the Vanity Fair story."

Worthington first became the object of international curiosity when it emerged that Vanity Fair had spiked a politically sensitive story about an unnamed Kennedy offspring living in the Vancouver area.

Worthington suggested to The Sun that "investigators" may believe his mother's family, the Bibbs of south Texas, "may have left me some type of authentic evidence that would expose something embarrassing to them."

The secret files related to Kennedy's death include a transcript of an alleged conversation between Kennedy's assassin Lee Harvey Oswald and Oswald's killer Jack Ruby as they plot to kill the president.

In response to Worthington's suggestion, Dallas County District Attorney Craig Watkins told The Sun: "There is no truth to that at all. I see no way to tie it together."

Watkins had heard of Worthington's existence about a week ago, but said planning around release of the sensitive documents had been in the works for about a year.

Watkins said the transcripts read "more like a movie script," and that is what he believes them to be. Documents in the cache also show that Henry Wade, district attorney at the time of the Kennedy assassination, had been negotiating a movie deal.

Vanity Fair would not comment on the content of its article, whether it has any relation to evidence Worthington's maternal family, the Bibbs, might have, or how that might relate to the assassination.

Richard Reeves, Kennedy's official biographer and author of President Kennedy: Profile of Power, told The Sun he also believes the transcripts are a red herring.

"I don't know anyone who comes close to believing anything about the transcripts," he said. "It doesn't sound like the way people speak."

As for Worthington's possible relation to the Kennedys, he pointed out that major U.S. news organizations are thus far staying away from reporting on Worthington's story.

"Since the Dan Rather episode, the networks are a little more careful about this sort of thing," he said.

In 2004, Rather went on air with a report suggesting that President George Bush received favourable treatment in the National Guard, a report that was later proved false.

Worthington, who hopes the Vanity Fair article will shed light on the assassination, said he is not a conspiracy theorist. "I'm not that knowledgeable about various theories," said Worthington. "I'll leave those judgments to professionals."

[William Kelly]

Here's a link to a few pages of the actual transcript:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...9rubyoswald.pdf

[John Simkin]

It seems the Dallas News wants help in interpreting this material.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...s.15b53191.html

The paper has set up a forum to discuss these documents. So far no one has posted on the subject:

http://www.dallasnews.com/forums/viewforum...1efd4c2c4c993ee

[William Kelly]

Here's two more reports on film maker Robert Larsen, the first, from Tom Bowden, of the Dallas Conspiracy Museum, who is apparently writing his memoirs, and includes this story of Larsen's visit and remarks. The other, in a following post, includes a quote from Larsen's son and the DMN apparently beginning to question Wade's integrity over the film deal. It seems that Larsen may have some film out take interviews with witnesses and may have obtained some official documents before they pulled the plug on him. - BK

From: Tom Bowden [mailto:writeconcord@yahoo.com]

Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 9:15 AM

To: dflick@dallasmorningnews.com

Subject: Robert Larsen and Henry Wade

David, This is Tom Bowden of the Conspiracy Museum.

In 2006, I discussed this film with Robert Larsen. He painted a somewhat different picture than you have written. He originated the conversation and we talked for about an hour.

The background was similar to your article in that he had been shooting commercials in Dallas and was approached by Henry Wade about doing a movie. They reached an agreement and Larsen begin to work on the script. The first version was completed and I suspect the copy in Ms. West possession is that version. Larsen and Wade discussed the script and decided to enhance the script to include the Oswald-Ruby relationship. It is my understanding the final script did in fact have the conversation in it and the film was to have had a conspiracy ending.

According to Larsen, while the film was in production, Wade called him into his office. Wade told him the financing had fallen through and Larsen was to leave town within twenty four hours. Larsen said he never understood the reason for the hurried shut down and demand that he leave town. His impression was someone was pressuring Wade to drop the film.

Larsen stated that he still had the files on the movie including the final script. He also stated he had the film footage from the production.

Larsen was in his 80's at the time and was attempting to find a way to capitalize on his archive. He did not want to give it to the Sixth Floor.

In a subsequent conversion, we made an appointment for me to view the information during a trip to California the following month. An appointment I was unable to keep as the museum's financial situation begin to worsen.

Immediately after talking to Larsen, I called Gary Mack to see if he had heard of the film. Mack told me he had not and would like to see the information if I obtained it.

I am including this story in greater detail in my upcoming book.