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UFO's - man made or ET?


Guest David Guyatt
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David ,

Thanks for starting this new thread ... Maybe you could ask one of the moderators to move our discussion from the "Scientific Knowledge Being Withheld" thread, beginning at my post #28... I didn't mean to intrude on Wade's discussion about the ET/FE subject, and I would like to apologise to him for doing that.

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Call me a gallactic provincial-- or something less friendly-- but I dont see why UFOs have to be in this forum. It will get a lot of perfectly good babies thrown out with the bathwater.

Im not taking a fixed position on the interstellar. Its just I wonder why its categorized as a political conspiracy. As I currently see it, this categorization can do much more harm than good. It fits in so well with the X-Files smearing that has worked so well on the younger folk.

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Call me a gallactic provincial-- or something less friendly-- but I dont see why UFOs have to be in this forum. It will get a lot of perfectly good babies thrown out with the bathwater.

Im not taking a fixed position on the interstellar. Its just I wonder why its categorized as a political conspiracy. As I currently see it, this categorization can do much more harm than good. It fits in so well with the X-Files smearing that has worked so well on the younger folk.

The subject would be categorized as a political conspiracy because of the government and military involvement in the cover-up .

Here's an interesting video about UFO's that might get the discussion started.

Most accurate Investigation into UFO's ever

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PBtVOhAl2ks

Edited by Duane Daman
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Guest David Guyatt
Call me a gallactic provincial-- or something less friendly-- but I dont see why UFOs have to be in this forum. It will get a lot of perfectly good babies thrown out with the bathwater.

Im not taking a fixed position on the interstellar. Its just I wonder why its categorized as a political conspiracy. As I currently see it, this categorization can do much more harm than good. It fits in so well with the X-Files smearing that has worked so well on the younger folk.

Nathaniel, if you read the linked thread I posted above, I believe you will see that I do consider it to be a political conspiracy. My view is that the alien aspect is very likely a contrived psyop and disinformation programme. On the one hand it was necessary for the US to eclipse the advanced technology it recovered from any number of "black" Nazi projects. On the other hand it was a perfect fit for MKULTRA type mind control programmes -- aimed at manipulating the minds of countless millions of "believers". There is evidence pointing towards the latter, notably the work of Armen Victorian and his unveiling of the so called DoD "Aviary" -- individuals with bird names -- one of whom is the infamous Colonel John Alexander. There are other pointers too.

Hope this helps to settle your concerns

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Pre-WWII sightings date back to the 19th century. However, I think it's significant that the reported objects tend to be more primitive the further back we go, as if what people reported seeing reflected the earthly technology of the time.

A classic example is the 1878 UFO sighting by John Martin. What he saw was not some fast-moving, bright light or metallic object but a fast-moving, dark "balloon." (Those aliens have sure come a long way since 1878!)

http://www.ufocasebook.com/denisontexas1878.html

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Actually, pre WW II observations date to pre-history.

Ezekial's machine, for example.

These "things" take on the appearance of the most sophisticated possible imaginings of observers.

Some characters in the Indian epic Ramayana travel around in flying machines. (Apparently home-grown technology, not alien.)

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Man-made >=99.99%

ET <= 0.01% ... if any.

I'm open to the possibility of alien visitation, but if compelling evidence exists, I haven't seen it.

I think it more likely that the US Military is quite happy for people to believe in ET UFOs. Makes it easier to keep their secret weapons developments a secret for longer. ET is a very handy patsy. It wouldn't surprise me if the CIA are involved in stoking the pro-ET camp with disinformation (pure speculation on my part). Most ET/UFO evidence I've seen is laughable, some of it is mildly interesting.

Like you David, I've found that with the passing of time my propensity for skepticism has increased exponentially. In my yoof I was prepared to believe just about any old crap on the strength of the most threadbare of evidence, as long as it sounded exciting. UFOs, time travel, astral projection. Since then, for good or ill, I've learned to sharpen and apply Occam's razor more regularly. If the evidence isn't there, then the jury is out as far as I'm concerned.

I think most people want ET to exist because they expect that a race so highly developed that they can travel across the light-years to say "Hello" to us mere mortals must be benificent, and would be able to right all of our planets wrongs. You'd have thought the generally negative portayal of our distant "friends" by Hollywood would have engendered a more hostile feeling toward the Beings from Planet X: Invasion of the Body Snatchers; The Thing; Alien; Predator; Independence Day; 'V'. Yet we stubbornly cling to Speilberg's more user-friendly, cuddly creations from "Close Encounters" and "ET".

Edited by Dave Greer
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I found an interesting Wikipedia article about gravity control propulsion technology and the UFO/alien connection... Here is an excerpt from the article .

United States gravity control propulsion initiative

UFO and conspiracy theories

On May 9, 2001, Mark McCandlish testified on the televised news conference held by the Disclosure Project, at the National Press Club, Washington, D.C. He stated gravity control propulsion research had started in the fifties and had successfully reverse engineered the vehicle retrieved from the Rosewell crash site to build three Alien Reproduction Vehicles by 1981.[5] McCandlish described their propulsion systems in terms of Thomas Townsend Brown's gravitators and provided a line drawing of its interior. The diagram closely resembled the drawing provided earlier in Milton William Cooper's book. Another Disclosure Project whistleblowers, Lt. Col Philip J. Corso, stated in his book the craft retrieved from the second crash site at Roswell, New Mexico, had a propulsion system resembling Thomas Townsend Brown's gravitators.[49] And, Corso's book featured several gravity control propulsion statements made by Professor Hermann Oberth.

Soon after America had won the Cold War, a small group of scientists and engineers openly expressed their desire to use technologies developed by black projects for civil applications.[50] Dr. Steven Greer formed the Disclosure Project in 1995 to help those and other research whistleblowers share their information with and to petition Congress. By 2001, it had provided reports to two Congressional hearings and had acquired over 400 members from branches of the military and aerospace industry.

During the early 1960s, Keyhoe published excerpts from a letter by Hermann Oberth that presented explanations for the flight characteristics of UFO's in terms of gravity control propulsion.[13] Keyhoe also stated forty-six unclassified G-projects had been confirmed by a 1965 research report from the Smithsonian Science Information Exchange, Smithsonian Institution.

During his press conferences on February 2, 1955 in Bogotá, Colombia, and February 10, 1955 in Grand Rapids, Michigan, the famous aviation pioneer, William Lear, stated one of his reasons for believing in flying saucers was the existence of American research efforts into antigravity.[51] Talbert's series of newspaper articles about the gravity control propulsion initiative were published during the Thanksgiving week of that year.

UFO and conspiracy theory literature

The initiative has been the subject of widely published UFO and conspiracy theory literature. The documented testimonies of whistleblowers edited by Dr. Steven Greer, Director of the Disclosure Project;[9] anecdotes and schematics by Mark McCandlish and Milton William Cooper;[9][10] and the reports by Philip J. Corso,[11] David Darlington,[12] and Donald Keyhoe,[13] famous UFO researcher, have suggested incorporation of reverse engineering of recovered extraterrestrial vehicles with the anti-gravity propulsion projects had enabled the initiative to continue beyond 1973 to successfully manufacture gravity control propulsion vehicles. Branches of the military and defense agencies have denied and refuted such claims.

More here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...sion_initiative

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